SCH needs some nerfs

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition are so strong in Diurnal, but it do not work with Noc. and the SCH has with luck a crit shild that played by mechanics.

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Ha, by reading the precedent answers, I was thinking to this too (again :) )
Imo, it's one of the best solution to bring Noct to the same level (or give it more interest) of Sch.
Time Dilatation, Celestial Opposition and why not Collective Unconscious must be modified to bring a nice buff and/or new effect to the shield in Noct sect.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Seems to me that it would be simpler to change Noct shields into 'shields-over-time'.
Instead of a flat 500 potency shield for Noct Benefic, it applies a 100 potency shield every 3 seconds, which stacks. Noct Helios: 50 potency shield.
This would serve as an autoattack damage sink thats far more mana efficient, in addition to providing a decent big hit shield when used in advance, and extending buffs will increase its effective potency in exactly the same manner as the HoTs.

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First of all, it is not the goal of the shields to be so strong at home. Even though these shields are damned expensive. These are the shields of SCH too!

That would be a bit unfair to the SCH.

Secondly, the Astros CDs postpone or even alter the healing process. (Look at synasty, HoT extending with CO or / and TD, Lightspeed)
All this skills change the Status of the healing skills. (Some more than others)

And I at least think it's okay for the scholar players when the AST pushes its stamina with its CDs, but that sacrifices Raid Dps in the worst case scenario. For me as AST main I like to see a spread Adlo. (Crit!!! ) =)

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Originally Posted by Heilstos

And for the "lack of sustained heal" SE has an answer. If ONLY the Noc. Ast would get another version of:

https://de.share-your-photo.com/img/2ab8af74d5.png

Here the sense of strong healing was pronounced. Even if the healing of 40% -> 25% would be a good balance (Just a numbers gimmick and that is the task of the Dev team ^^) and would not argue with the WHM, by the way of playing GCDs to minimize healings.

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It is an very interesting idea. But FFXIV is different from WOW where healers need to constantly heal party members. In FFXIV, most of the times, only MT is taking damage, that means you won't be constantly casting heals on other party members therefore this skill won't change much.

SCH is OP because it is designed perfectly to team with a HOT healer with very flexible abilities and automated hot. So it can focus on dps while the other healer can single handedly takes care of the party. And even when help is needed, a 0GCD ability can arrive with zero interruption for their dps. Thats how it is OP.

So unless FFXIV change the entire damage model/or heal model, otherwise no one can replace sch.

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Originally Posted by IanFrench

So unless FFXIV change the entire damage model/or heal model, otherwise no one can replace sch.

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Or they could bring the potencies of SCH's abilities in line with their utility, nerfing pDPS to compensate for Chain and limiting the effectiveness of their oGCD heals to force more GCDs to be spent on their primary role.

In the end, that's not even really a proper thread to debate how to balance or nerf SCH.
That's just another WHM cry who doesn't even play the 3 healers at equal level and barely know what she talks about, leading in her main argument being "NERF" without strong analysis, asking for others thoughts on the subject but bring their opinion down.

That's a bit useless.

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Originally Posted by Jinzhu

Best option is to just delete Noct and actually give AST it's own identity instead of trying to split it between regen/shield :)

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Kinda wished for that for a long time, but I highly doubt they'll entirely rework AST, so at least, I'd prefer noct being really considered apart from diurnal.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

In the end, that's not even really a proper thread to debate how to balance or nerf SCH.
That's just another WHM cry who doesn't even play the 3 healers at equal level and barely know what she talks about, leading in her main argument being "NERF" without strong analysis, asking for others thoughts on the subject but bring their opinion down.

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Oh yes, it's clearly a thread from a WHM. I bet it says my main class is WHM - oh, wait, nope that says RDM. But I bet if you look me up all my parses are for WHM because it's what I raid on and that's why I care about the healer imbalance- oh, wow... that's all RDM too, huh?

I care about this because SCH is overpowered and overrepresented in Alphascape specifically. The growing problem with healer balance all expansion is coming to a head in the final raid tier where there is no reason to take WHM and even less of a reason to bring a Noct AST.

I'm sure it's easier to dismiss criticism as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but it doesn't take a SCH main to evaluate the function of SCH any more than it takes a BRD main to see that BRD is in a similar position.

Keep whining SCH mains, I'll keep trying to divert the WHM who complain about AST to the true impediment to healer balance and right now that's your class.

In term of popularity healer balance is way better than any other role right now. DRK only have 14k parses while PLD have 46k. BRD have 44k and MCH only 7k, DRG have 40k parses while MNK only 11k and SMN have 24k parses while blm only 12k. Even at worst spot whm still have 28k parses.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Oh yes, it's clearly a thread from a WHM. I bet it says my main class is WHM - oh, wait, nope that says RDM. But I bet if you look me up all my parses are for WHM because it's what I raid on and that's why I care about the healer imbalance- oh, wow... that's all RDM too, huh?

I care about this because SCH is overpowered and overrepresented in Alphascape specifically. The growing problem with healer balance all expansion is coming to a head in the final raid tier where there is no reason to take WHM and even less of a reason to bring a Noct AST.

I'm sure it's easier to dismiss criticism as someone who doesn't know what they're talking about but it doesn't take a SCH main to evaluate the function of SCH any more than it takes a BRD main to see that BRD is in a similar position.

Keep whining SCH mains, I'll keep trying to divert the WHM who complain about AST to the true impediment to healer balance and right now that's your class.

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Sch "IS" OP, but not for the reasons you are presenting. Sch's having the highest represented number on FFlogs does not make it OP, it just means it is preferred healer. Even if they nerfed sch to the ground to the point it becomes literally unplayable and the only healer compositions you see are WHM/AST, nobody would say WHM/AST are OP just because they make up 100% of the representation on FFLogs.

So why is it sch's are preferred? It's simply because sch fits the role better than a noct ast, and in turn a diurnal ast fits the role better than a whm especially in this tier. When one performs better than the other, people naturally prefer it. This is why you see less WHM/AST compared with WHM/SCH combinations, and because ast is better suited to filling in the role of regen healer in this tier (all thanks to their healing kit), you will naturally see more of AST/SCH pairs compared with WHM/SCH again. Add to the fact (as someone has already mentioned before) that sch's and ast's have great synergies with their own abilities and to each other where else WHM doesn't even have synergy to itself and you can see how those numbers came about on FFlogs.

If a tyre on your vehicle suffers from puncture you bring it to a workshop to get it fixed. You do not go and puncture the remaining tyres all so that one tyre doesn't feel left out.

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Originally Posted by FalalaMaru

Sch "IS" OP, but not for the reasons you are presenting. Sch's having the highest represented number on FFlogs does not make it OP, it just means it is preferred healer. Even if they nerfed sch to the ground to the point it becomes literally unplayable and the only healer compositions you see are WHM/AST, nobody would say WHM/AST are OP just because they make up 100% of the representation on FFLogs.

So why is it sch's are preferred? It's simply because sch fits the role better than a noct ast, and in turn a diurnal ast fits the role better than a whm especially in this tier. When one performs better than the other, people naturally prefer it. This is why you see less WHM/AST compared with WHM/SCH combinations, and because ast is better suited to filling in the role of regen healer in this tier (all thanks to their healing kit), you will naturally see more of AST/SCH pairs compared with WHM/SCH again. Add to the fact (as someone has already mentioned before) that sch's and ast's have great synergies with their own abilities and to each other where else WHM doesn't even have synergy to itself and you can see how those numbers came about on FFlogs.

If a tyre on your vehicle suffers from puncture you bring it to a workshop to get it fixed. You do not go and puncture the remaining tyres all so that one tyre doesn't feel left out.

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The circle of buffs only leads to inadvertent and indirect content nerfs. After buffing WHM and AST let's say WHM comes out way ahead of the other healers. By your logic that means we then have to buff AST and SCH to match. Before you know it you've repeated the end of HW with BRD and MCH. I would rather they not do this with the healers which is why I think WHM and SCH need to be brought in line with AST. For WHM that means buffing either it's pDPS or adding rDPS to compensate, for SCH that means forcing some more GCD healing and/or reducing its pDPS or rDPS contribution.

This isn't rocket science.

As for DRK being worse off than WHM - sure. Not talking about DRK though, talking about healer issues.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

. I would rather they not do this with the healers which is why I think WHM and SCH need to be brought in line with AST. For WHM that means buffing either it's pDPS or adding rDPS to compensate, for SCH that means forcing some more GCD healing and/or reducing its pDPS or rDPS contribution.

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Doesn't that just make AST even more broken as now it's as now able to fill either healer slot while SCH/WHM 'have' to compete for separate slots?