5.0 Job change wishlist

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

Stopped reading there.

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Stopped reading there.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

I'm not a WHM player, so correct me if I'm wrong, but even in the context of all the conversations here...

Shouldn't you use the lilies the moment you hit 3? There's no bonus that I recall to having lilies (correct me if I am wrong) so holding onto them is literally wasting their potential unless you somehow have nothing to use it on.

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For some reason, I was under the impression that each lily also increased potency of heals and shortened cast times on GCD skills. I don't know where I got this impression though, and switching to WHM myself to look at the tooltips, it seems that was never the case. Which means holding onto all 3 of them is even worse. Huh.

melee and tanks: give us the dot back, we really need it as a rotation filter, currently all rotations are too inflexible when you have to move away from boss for a few GCD or close to a boss jump away.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

For some reason, I was under the impression that each lily also increased potency of heals and shortened cast times on GCD skills. I don't know where I got this impression though, and switching to WHM myself to look at the tooltips, it seems that was never the case. Which means holding onto all 3 of them is even worse. Huh.

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Yeah, so I wasn't going crazy. I imagine if they *did* affect the skills like that they'd both be more useful and have a more meaningful choice while using them.

Actually, in all honesty, if the lilies actually did something beyond affect the cooldown of skills when they were used, would people have a better opinion of them? I don't know what WHM would find the most useful, though.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Shouldn't you use the lilies the moment you hit 3? There's no bonus that I recall to having lilies (correct me if I am wrong) so holding onto them is literally wasting their potential unless you somehow have nothing to use it on.

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I see you have fully grasped the scale of fallacy with which we're contending. Even from the point of view that was being argued, that statement is absurdly wrong. I thought maybe it was just a troll post, and the hits kept coming. Command mission healers are the best players. Yoshi-P is infallible, even at factual reality's expense. Using a parser makes you a bad player and a bad person. All the tamest replies are ignored while blanket-insulting everybody who disagrees (which seems to be everyone who's posted), then shrieking like a wounded deer when people respond in kind. Classic, toxic threadjacking, either intentionally trolling or too warped by a persecution complex to concede any point. The fact that they wouldn't even back down from the singularly ridiculous thing you've quoted makes it clear that there's no point taking a word of this seriously.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Actually, in all honesty, if the lilies actually did something beyond affect the cooldown of skills when they were used, would people have a better opinion of them? I don't know what WHM would find the most useful, though.

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It depends what that "something" is, I suppose. If they had an effect to increase your damage output in some way then that would help to offset the loss of damage you sustain by using Cure and Cure II. Ultimately I think the range of possibilities is severely limited by the way Lilies are generated presently. It just does not make much sense with the way the Job functions in a live game setting.

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Originally Posted by Trunks

I see you have fully grasped the scale of fallacy with which we're contending. Even from the point of view that was being argued, that statement is absurdly wrong. I thought maybe it was just a troll post, and the hits kept coming. Command mission healers are the best players. Yoshi-P is infallible, even at factual reality's expense. Using a parser makes you a bad player and a bad person. All the tamest replies are ignored while blanket-insulting everybody who disagrees (which seems to be everyone who's posted), then shrieking like a wounded deer when people respond in kind. Classic, toxic threadjacking, either intentionally trolling or too warped by a persecution complex to concede any point. The fact that they wouldn't even back down from the singularly ridiculous thing you've quoted makes it clear that there's no point taking a word of this seriously.

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Marry me?

/10char

I'm still laughing at the "Yoshi-P's idea of how the job should be played is the correct one and everyone else is wrong" logic considering it's been proven incorrect multiple times. 2.0 Warrior, for example which he said was "fine" to death until they realized no wait, it's actually not fine and needed some help. Or how players found a better way to play Ninja then the dev team back when it came out and they had to nerf its damage as a result because it was too strong.

The dev team is not infallible and yes, players do more often find the most efficient way to play a Job.

On topic, I'd like them to give Samurai (and Black Mage) more raw power, so that they're far above any raid utility-providing DPS in personal damage. Make it so it's not as efficient as a full meta party, but they at least can hit the contribution of some of the lesser raid buffs in pure damage. Stacking is not really an issue because you get shafted on LB gauge as a result.

Barring that, give them raid utility. Maybe give Samurai the opposite of Red Mage's Embolden, where they buff magic users in the party and give themselves a physical buff.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

But hey, most of the people pushing the regen meta wouldn't know this because they don't play it. I could be wrong, because as I said, Assize is up pretty much all the time for me and, I don't pay attention to the lilies, so I just use it if it's available. So people shouldn't get themselves twisted in a knot over the lilies. None of the gauges on any of the jobs do anything but tell you what activates the procs. They are not limit break bars.

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I'm going to say this again for devil's advocate purposes.

Bard Wanderer Minuet gauge is composed of two aspects, the song timer and the arrow stacks. How many stacks you have equates to the strength of Pitch Perfect when used, and once used, you have to charge it up again.

Summoner gauge transforms based on usage of Aetherflow skills, leading into being able to use Dreadwyrm Trance, which further leads into summoning Bahamut-egi itself. In some cases, Dreadwyrm Trance and Bahamut-egi might as well be a caster limit break in terms of overall strength when properly utilized.

For a non-DPS example, let's take Scholar's fairy meter. Their meter increases based on usage of Energy Drain (the only offensive Aetherflow skill that SCH has) and Excogitation (a preventive buffer heal that activates when the target's HP drops below 50%). It's used to execute Fey Union, one of, if not -the- strongest heal over time skill in the entire game, and Fey Union drains the fairy meter.

I'm sure several other jobs that I have little experience with have gauges that behave similarly. If these are not the definition of something that behaves like a limit break bar, then I don't know what your standards for one are. Lilies are very boring in comparison (-especially- compared to the fairy meter, which is somehow even more simplistic than lilies in design but more intuitive in practical use), and that's where most of the grievances lie.

Stop using my (and other peoples', for that matter) class to justify your arguments.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

For a non-DPS example, let's take Scholar's fairy meter. Their meter increases based on usage of Energy Drain (the only offensive Aetherflow skill that SCH has) and Excogitation (a preventive buffer heal that activates when the target's HP drops below 50%). It's used to execute Fey Union, one of, if not -the- strongest heal over time skill in the entire game, and Fey Union drains the fairy meter.

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Small note, Fey Gauge goes up for anything that uses Aetherflow stacks. Also, we have Bane for offensive Aetherflow, but only for groups, obviously.

I haven't really read everything, I just know that someone is apparently trolling in regards to the WHM Lily Gauge. I can't say much about the system since I main SCH. And although I personally don't have an issue with the system, I can see how some player dislike it; hey the Fairy Gauge isn't stellar either, but it is better, lol. Why not rework it into a system that mimics the BLM system, kinda. Like maybe a Water Gauge, cause god knows they need more water moves, maybe like a Flood Gauge. The gauge could still increase with heals, so you still feel rewarded for healing, but the gauge could work towards more rewarding moves, and maybe their level 80 move could be the actual Flood spell. I dunno, the gauge is thematically identical to most of them, but just a reduced cool down feels weak.