Again the regen thing! Wasn't it gone and done?

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I have this on my hotbar. Every time they cast a HoT on me, I use that macro. They soon tend to get the message.

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I need to use this. I didn't even know you could do that.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

If only they would actually listen though. No matter how politely I've phrased it, over and over again people will either ignore me or give me some variation of "do your job I'll do mine / you don't pay my sub kthx". I'm sad I finished leveling all my healers so now I have to trust other people in DF...

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the nyou keep running and don't take aggro back from them :) you finis hthe pull and if deaths need to occur for them to learn, so be it. If I throw a shield up too late I run to the tank for easy management, I know better xD

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Originally Posted by Miste

For giggles here is Qarn Normal first pull. This is the first dungeon healers have regens (besides SCH fairy)

http://i.imgur.com/0rr3jXs.png

Just a fyi it isn't possible to run in and overpower and hit all the bats. Even if you ran over to the right and overpowered the far right one aimed at the middle one overpower range isn't far enough. I know because just as I took this screenshot I tried to do that. Missed the middle and of course the left one. If I had regen on me when I tried that guess where the other two bats are going?

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You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend the left-most bat. As soon as you get the skill off, you snap towards the right and go for Flash/Overpower/Unleash. This is where the first thing you need to learn: you don't necessarily have to be heading towards the mobs. If the mobs are so spread out, and you have regen on you, why are you not heading towards your healer instead? You know the last two bats are going to go for your healer, why are you trying to chase them down and complain about your healer instead of going straight for where the bats are going and drop a Flash/Overpower/Unleash?

Now even if you couldn't think flexibly and have used Flash/Overpower/Unmend to catch only the middle bat and missed the third one, you have Provoke, don't you? Provoke and another Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend will get that third bat to you. Problem solved.

Yes, aggro is a shared responsibility, it is a shared responsibility mostly when you cannot shoulder it on your own. And that was in early 2.x when a Flash actually was less enmity than one hard-hitting attack from some DPS jobs. Regen is not one of those situations.

What about Brayflox with one ranged mob and two melee? Do you demand healers to not regen so you can always get to the ranged mob first and only use one Flash/Overpower/Unmend to catch all three? No. You don't do that. You either Lob a melee, Flash the next Melee and pull both to the ranged for another Flash, or you Lob the melee because it's closest, and Flash the ranged, again using the Provoke+Lob on the last ranged that may be heading towards the healer.

There are so many pulls like this, a tank seriously needs to learn that pulling isn't just Flash/Overpower/Unmend. You have tools to handle these pulls, you should use them flexibly. There isn't a combo order to these tools.

And then you can advance to the next stage during chain pulling to actually use your enmity combo to pull the next pack while DPS is still finishing off the last 5% of the last mob from your current pack.

Think flexibly, use the tools flexibly, and you can become a much more effective tank, instead of always having to rely on other team members to create the perfect situation for you to do your job.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

Lob/Tomahawk/Unmend the left-most bat. As soon as you get the skill off, you snap towards the right and go for Flash/Overpower/Unleash. This is where the first thing you need to learn: you don't necessarily have to be heading towards the mobs. If the mobs are so spread out, and you have regen on you, why are you not heading towards your healer instead? You know the last two bats are going to go for your healer, why are you trying to chase them down and complain about your healer instead of going straight for where the bats are going and drop a Flash/Overpower/Unleash?

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Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Common Sense

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Any tank worth their salt knows how to adapt to the "pregen" shit, yes.

But in terms of speeding things up and keeping it all streamlined?

Tanks: Aggro Management > Defensive Buffs > DPS
Healers: Healing > DPS > Aggro Management
DPS: DPS/Offensive Buffs > Aggro Management

Tanks, design-wise, are supposed to be the ones to take care of most of the aggro management. Healers and DPS can help with aggro reduction actions, but it's mostly Tanks doing to work.

If Tanks are constantly getting pregen'd, they're losing time trying to get things in order as they move along, getting all of the mobs under control.

I know it all amounts to a matter of a few seconds, but it's still seconds of precious time that the whole party gets to keep, to start doing something else when the dungeon is finished.

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

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Nah, let's piss off the tanks and wonder why there are barely any tanks to spare.
Then tell said tanks "l2tank" then people cry tears as to why it takes half an hour to Q for anything.
Be nice to your tanks, and make their life easier....please.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

They are returning back!
The healers that haven't nothing other to do than put a regen on you the instant before you are taking aggro from a group of mobs.

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This is very common on the EU worlds...

You can try asking them to stop, it might work though from my personal experience it just makes them worse, so just let them die then leave, 30 minute wait to re-queue is worth it.

As a healer I never use Regen or anything on the tank until they have aggro on everything. And one more thing, DPS that run ahead and pull, I let them die, never heal them once during the duty.

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

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Whaaaat? But then the tank is going to take damage! I can't let that happen ever at all! Even if it means I'll take damage, but that just means the tank is being baaaaad.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

You see, this is what I've been talking about. If you have trouble pulling this pack with regen on you, you need to rethink how you pull and learn to pull properly.

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Just for the record, that picture and commentary were in response to someone saying that you shouldn't use your Tomahawk/Shield Lob/Unmend.

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Originally Posted by ThunderGodThor

Or the healer could delay the regen until after the pull. Seems a lot simpler.

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lol this. Boggles my mind that tanks should have to deal with this and do some geometry nonsense (really only WAR has to deal with this since their overpower needs a target and is cone if no gauge for cyclone) just so the regen can tick for a measly 150 potency per tick and potentially unstabilize a pull.

Yeah there are tanks that can handle it, I don't usually have a problem even if there's medica 2 healing nothing on when I pull (which people in this thread would probably defend, too) but as soon as those mobs run to the healer they might as well have just waited the extra 3 seconds for them to turn red instead now it's a circus and the dps can't even hit them optimally until they are clumped up.