How does SE justify these ten min enrages, but doesnt let anyone know their dps

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Everyone should have access or no one should. Half-measures are just fully hypocritical.

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As a PS4 player, I second this. It ticks me off that PC players can so easily see actual numbers in real-time rather than having to rely on someone else uploading a limited amount of parses to FFlogs after the fact while I sit here in the dark about whether or not I'm actually carrying my weight or playing my class well.
It's one of the reasons I healed through Heavensward despite enjoying DPS more.

I don't even want to see other peoples' DPS. I don't care about that. I just want to see my own, and know once and for all whether I'm trash at my job or not :')

And yeah, I know I can get a PC buddy to parse me at a striking dummy or use SSS, but since when did bosses just stand there getting hit, never moving or dealing damage or throwing out an AoE you had to dodge?

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

All you need to do is look at how the meta has trickled down from extreme to regular raids now in this game. Think someone is going to play a dragoon or machinist if there are parsers?

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Have you looked at the hardcore groups lately? A lot of have Dragoons. In fact, Momo Sama changed from Samurai to Dragoon because he liked it better. Meanwhile, Machinist is getting dumped on by everyone. And rightly so. You don't need a parse to tell you Bard is overwhelmingly better. This doom and gloom surrounding parses just doesn't make sense. I'll reiterate, if you step into Savage, someone likely has a parse up, and job balance will always be talked about. So it isn't like one job being inferior to another isn't known already. All a parse does is allow people to see their numbers and hopefully improve.

Rotating through your combo moves is a no-brainer (Yet people still fail at this, as I've seen multiple level 70 PLDs who never use Goring Blade or Royal Authority...), but knowing when to use your OGCDs and cooldowns to maximize their effectiveness isn't.

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Originally Posted by Quoyan

And yeah, I know I can get a PC buddy to parse me at a striking dummy or use SSS, but since when did bosses just stand there getting hit, never moving or dealing damage or throwing out an AoE you had to dodge?

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While it's true that your target dummy DPS is always going to be better then in the actual encounter, being to able to destroy it at least means you have a solid grasp of your class' rotation, especially if you're pulling it off at the minimum item level for the raid.

Requiring this for all people who want to step into savage raids really would make things more enjoyable overall, because it's pretty frustrating to hit your head on an encounter until you can survive all the mechanics, only to realize the group's DPS is a long ways off from beating the enrage timer.

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Originally Posted by Sparhwk

Hi I'm a Dragoon since ARR and still in SB. I like having a Parser. *Snippers*

Saying you don't want a parser just means you're looking for an excuse to be bad. And that's fine, you're not someone I'd want to play with since you don't want to look for ways to help improve yourself.

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You like parsers and talk about how they assist you. That's true. Parsers can show you ways to improve but they have to be used properly.

However, players don't use them properly. Instead, people scream at you if you don't play the "best spec" and the best build the cutting edge raiders are using. I saw this in WoW and I have no reason to believe it will be different here.

You make the accusations that I'm looking for an excuse to be bad and that I'm not looking for ways to improve myself. Both accusations are baloney.

I research, practice, and ask for advice with every job I play. I am against parsers because of the impact they have on the community based on what I saw during my eight years playing WoW.

So, spare me your "excuse to be bad" rhetoric. I could not care less if you want to play with me or not.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

However, players don't use them properly. Instead, people scream at you if you don't play the "best spec" and the best build the cutting edge raiders are using. I saw this in WoW and I have no reason to believe it will be different here.

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Got a source? Any numbers to back your claim up? Anything beyond anecdote?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Got a source? Any numbers to back your claim up? Anything beyond anecdote?

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Really? You're really going to play that card?

Of course I don't have numbers! It's not like I was attempting to write a thesis paper. I was playing WoW.

The fact is I started playing WoW in the final weeks of Vanilla and only went on hiatus this past month. During that time, I witnessed a helpful, fun community devolve into a nasty, competitive community focused on efficiency rather than having fun. I feel that change was brought about by the introduction of parser add-ons.

I do not want that to happen here.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Really? You're really going to play that card?

Of course I don't have numbers! It's not like I was attempting to write a thesis paper. I was playing WoW.

The fact is I started playing WoW in the final weeks of Vanilla and only went on hiatus this past month. During that time, I witnessed a helpful, fun community devolve into a nasty, competitive community focused on efficiency rather than having fun. I feel that change was brought about by the introduction of parser add-ons.

I do not want that to happen here.

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That already exists in this game: FFlogs.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Really? You're really going to play that card?

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Of course I am. You made a claim, you have to back it up.

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Of course I don't have numbers! It's not like I was attempting to write a thesis paper. I was playing WoW.

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If all you have is anecdotal evidence, then honestly you've added nothing to the conversation. It's not about "writing a thesis paper", it's about presenting an argument with some class.

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The fact is I started playing WoW in the final weeks of Vanilla and only went on hiatus this past month. During that time, I witnessed a helpful, fun community devolve into a nasty, competitive community focused on efficiency rather than having fun. I feel that change was brought about by the introduction of parser add-ons

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I'm sorry you feel that way. I have no reason to disbelieve your claim, but I also have no reason to believe the extrapolation that this can be reflected past your experience. Which is why anecdotal evidence is so weak as to be worse than worthless.

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I do not want that to happen here.

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It's an admirable sentiment.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

However, players don't use them properly. Instead, people scream at you if you don't play the "best spec" and the best build the cutting edge raiders are using. I saw this in WoW and I have no reason to believe it will be different here.

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The statics I've been in past and present make use of them so that we can all improve as a group to beat savage etc.

Like I remember in A11S and A12S the DPS check was a bit hard for us when we first got to those turns so we started checking our data more often once we got to enrage so everyone in our group would try to beat their previous data to squeeze out more and more DPS and we changed some of our ideas of when to use certain abilities in order to get more DPS from tanks and healers as well. This resulted in us clearing it quite soon after getting that far because we used the data to help us work towards higher goals as a team.

Same thing with O3S (the turn we are currently learning) once we learn all mechanics we will start pushing our DPS goals in order to clear and to clear as efficiently as possible as well.

So...I don't know I really doubt it was just the statics I happen to be in that do that. So you are wrong that players don't use them properly.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

Think someone is going to play a dragoon or machinist if there are parsers?

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Coincidentally enough my current static has a DRG in it and we have no issue. We are close to clearing O3S. Sure, we aren't hardcore, but we are getting the work done even with our limited hours per week raid schedule (we only go two days and only for couple of hours each).

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

However, players don't use them properly. Instead, people scream at you if you don't play the "best spec" and the best build the cutting edge raiders are using. I saw this in WoW and I have no reason to believe it will be different here.

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Correction: Bad players just scream at you. Good players don't give a damn, provided you can perform well enough. I'll smack a tank if he whines about healer DPS yet I can clearly see he's not using CDs properly. Likewise, I've kicked a RDM who refused to use Vercure because I'd rather not wipe for your precious FFlogs. It's entirely misleading just how "toxic" the supposed raid community is. You'll often find it's bad players who were called out and got defensive crying on reddit instead of recognizing what they did wrong. Using Xeno, for example, who is notorious for his "bully stream." He'll spend hours with tanks who listen and adjust but has utterly no patience for someone who sits quiet or ignores what he's telling them to do. The server first group on Balmung actually teach new raiders fights.

Are there jerks with high FFlogs? Absolutely. Just like there are jerks who suck at the game. A parse won't change that, but it can potentially help players who don't realize they need improvement, especially PS4 users.