On Xelphatol and the Actual Summoner.

My entire problem is not that SMN is a poorly designed job---far from it, it's actually interesting.

My problem is that a job that relies on DoTs from your books from the Arcanist class, pets as additional DoTs and Bahamut's Deathflare as a direct attack doesn't have any business being called a Summoner. Maybe it should be a Blue Mage.

Meanwhile we have an Alexander minion that looks like a very realistic miniature of Alexander, people posing en masse on their (sometimes oversized) mounts in Idyllshire, and a dungeon boss that outright summons Garuda briefly for an attack. And the prevailing excuses are still lore and "the models are too big". I'm not buying that anymore, SE. You wrote yourself into a corner, and I would love to hear you squirm out of the hole you made for yourself.

I think the relic will be the last thing I ever do with it, outside RP'ing. All this is making me want to get a Black Mage and forget Summoner even existed with all the identity issues.

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Originally Posted by AscendantManes

I think the relic will be the last thing I ever do with it, outside RP'ing. All this is making me want to get a Black Mage and forget Summoner even existed with all the identity issues.

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Red Mage is coming out to so give that a try too :) I'm still deciding on what my main job will be for the expansion and will be focusing only on that job so that I get more out of the game and stop missing out on raid content.

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Personally there are a few jobs I've been disappointed with.

Smn is supposed to actually summon 'primals' not limited to 3 types, tank dps and caster dps. I miss my smn's from XI and loved the diversity of skills and abilities each different summon would bring. Smn is more of a dot Mage than anything here.

Drg- isn't a drg supposed to be a dragon master with command over dragons? Here they're simply dragon slayers. From the general lore I know of drg is that they pull their power from dragons and typically have a dragon companion.

Nin- basicly a combination of ninja and thief, it doesn't fully utilize the potential of both jobs.

Brd- basically a combination of a bard and a ranger, again this one doesn't utilize the potential of both jobs.

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I can agree that SMN is disappointing thematically, and that BRD is more Ranger than Bard.

But no, DRG was a dragon master once in ff11 and literally nowhere else since 1990. And NIN has everything NIN has had in every final fantasy, give or take an effect. It also has everything THF has ever had except the ability to steal buffs.

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Originally Posted by Vrmillion

But no, DRG was a dragon master once in ff11 and literally nowhere else since 1990.

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You mean that tiny Wyvern that was so weak the Recast Time had to be reduced from 2 hours to 20 minutes? FFXI was the origin of the LOLDRG meme.

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Originally Posted by Vrmillion

It [Ninja] also has everything THF has ever had except the ability to steal buffs.

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Stealing buffs would probably be extremely niche in this game, just like One Ilm Punch. Hell it would probably be cut in 4.0 if we did have it as a skill.

I'm not really bothered about summoning full sized Garuda.

What I want is to use this dreadwyrm aether that we collect to summon Bahamut-egi instead of 'Bahamut-hat'. I'm also not fussed about using his abilities directly, I'd rather command the mini-Bahamut I've bound to my will to use them, especially Teraflare.

(ok, I basically just want a mostly cosmetic reworking of Dreadwyrm trance and Deathflare.)

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Originally Posted by AscendantManes

a dungeon boss that outright summons Garuda briefly for an attack.

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That guy is a tempered thrall of Garuda. And he's only able to do that summoning because of the shitload of crystals present in Xelphatol.

The mistake in that whole mess was having the boss summon Garuda in the first place. Of course, alternatives are sparse, since you could have that boss summon Garuda-egi along with Chirada-egi and Suprana-egi. The problem there, though, is that the method player characters use for summoning is something that is derived from Allagan data, which means that beast tribes are not going to have the needed info to summon egi in the first place (along with the fact that storywise your SMN is one of a handful in the world that know how to summon egi). In short, it's a mess.

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And the prevailing excuses are still lore and "the models are too big". I'm not buying that anymore, SE. You wrote yourself into a corner, and I would love to hear you squirm out of the hole you made for yourself.

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Personally, I don't see any outs. They had their opportunity with Heavensward (since the SMN questline could have focused on strengthening egis while further developing the relationship between the SMN and their pets), but that was squandered with Dreadwyrm Trance, the systems that came with it, and the aether limitations excuse used for why you can't summon Ramuh/Leviathan/Shiva-egi.

As I mentioned before, SE also changed the rules behind primals because they were bent on going down the "let's disprove all faiths" path of storytelling, which did nothing to help (as I said, Sanic the Hegehog as a primal is entirely possible thanks to how they wrote that part of the HW story; and that's not a good thing).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

as I said, Sanic the Hegehog as a primal is entirely possible thanks to how they wrote that part of the HW story; and that's not a good thing.

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Sanic primal confirmed :o I want it

Well its a good thing most of you posting on this thread don't seem to represent the SMN community much...

Most everyone I know loves playing the SMN... in fact... there's so many of them they're about as popular as BLM... I did a Diadem the other day and we were packed with Summoners. In fact the Party leader said as much "wow... think we have enough Summoners"...

And I'm running into it more and more often.

This is a strong and powerful Job... I wonder if half the people on this thread have ever played it past level 50... Once you get past level 50 this thing really starts to play like a REAL final fantasy Summoner. With Tera Flare and the whole 9 yards...

Here's the Tera Flare Summon from FF7...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_rylb0G_wM

Here's our Tera Flare...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkq5frZhcSA

Yeah they don't zoom out to a planetary level... but they sure got Deathflare right...

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

Once you get past level 50 this thing really starts to play like a REAL final fantasy Summoner. With Tera Flare and the whole 9 yards...

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Although im a smn in heart – I sadly i kinda disagree on this... your comparison didn't fit well for me : /

Deathflare is nothing to compare with the impact of the offline titles summons - it doesn't feel like the appearance of a mystical powerful being appearing on the battlefield which is iconic for summons. Although I like our true Terra Flare very much (meaning the LB3) - the only real "summon" in FF14 for me right now – it disappoints me that the given FF14 limit-mechanic won't allow us to use it the way we should use it... And even if you get the chance to "unleash the dragon" you have to step back for all the melees and their fatality-moves... meh .____.

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Originally Posted by Silverquick

This is a strong and powerful Job... I wonder if half the people on this thread have ever played it past level 50... Once you get past level 50 this thing really starts to play like a REAL final fantasy Summoner. With Tera Flare and the whole 9 yards...

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Summoner is a fun class, it's great to play and it feels powerful.
I've argued in the many Summoner threads that it only really needs cosmetic changes and minor tweaks to really get the Summoner feeling.

Past Summoners basically summoned things that did a big attack and then went away, we've got the big attack now but we don't summon anything to do it, we do it ourselves instead. Fun, but not really "summoning".