[DEV Question] Why is this allowed?

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

No you do not. The gear is weighed differently stat wise, your true average should reflect this. I do not appreciate the semantics, as it should be clear what I mean, and I hope it does now.

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Whether you appreciate it or not, words have meanings and you should use the right ones if you want to communicate effectively and be understood.

You've also decided that math just isn't quite good enough to do this job, so something else is going to have to do it. Never mind the fact that the existing system works fine and produces successful parties (including the one in the OP) far FAR more often than it doesn't.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Unfortunately, there's nothing stopping other players from facilitating artificial item level bloating. You either have players check and kick (which creates other issues) or implement something like this to enforce it.

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It feels like such a shame to punish everyone for the actions of a few when so little of the game actually lets you play around with stats in the first place. At some point why even have gear at all? We could just have one stat which goes up automatically with our level and turn everything else into skill or glamour (which it already is in many ways). Bad players will always find new ways to be jerks to their groups and I'd rather find a solution which doesn't dumb the system down even further. Recalculating minimum entry requirements another way is far more agreeable to me and doesn't screw up PVP or simply having fun.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Yikes, people are actually defending missing around 30 weapon damage and 80-90 main stat compared to a i230 dps weapon. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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"oh look the tank its missing 30 WD, that's ok that's just like if he were missing like 750 ish str or vit, no big <.<" (not to mention the actual loss of vit in regards to HP :P)

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Whether you appreciate it or not, words have meanings and you should use the right ones if you want to communicate effectively and be understood.

You've also decided that math just isn't quite good enough to do this job, so something else is going to have to do it. Never mind the fact that the existing system works fine and produces successful parties (including the one in the OP) far FAR more often than it doesn't.

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Guess i can get behind this position, since even in my example it was literally a 1 in 50 occurrence. Probably why SE hasn't changed it since it could potentially over-reach and affect alot more ppl than it helps.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It feels like such a shame to punish everyone for the actions of a few when so little of the game actually lets you play around with stats in the first place. At some point why even have gear at all? We could just have one stat which goes up automatically with our level and turn everything else into skill or glamour (which it already is in many ways). Bad players will always find new ways to be jerks to their groups and I'd rather find a solution which doesn't dumb the system down even further. Recalculating minimum entry requirements another way is far more agreeable to me and doesn't screw up PVP or simply having fun.

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It's not a feels like a shame. It is a shame. People prove time and again why we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Yikes, people are actually defending missing around 30 weapon damage and 80-90 main stat compared to a i230 dps weapon. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

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It's very clear.

I must go on a crusade in Alexander Normal with my Gae Bolg Zenith from years past.

/s

I ran into a BLM with i145 staff and i250 gear on in xelphetol the other day when I was on my alt with i250 spear - I told them to get a better weapon. Even if you are terrible a weapon upgrade helps your dps tremendously.

SE really should put a minimum gear piece iLVL requirement in too, average just doesn't work as well as it's intended. It doesn't have to be crazy but 20-30 iLVLs should be fine imo. You should not be doing creator with a ravana weapon, you are just lazy.

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Originally Posted by Callinon

Whether you appreciate it or not, words have meanings and you should use the right ones if you want to communicate effectively and be understood.

You've also decided that math just isn't quite good enough to do this job, so something else is going to have to do it. Never mind the fact that the existing system works fine and produces successful parties (including the one in the OP) far FAR more often than it doesn't.

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Your post makes no sense, you are actually implying we should not have any minimum requirements. Guess what? weighting them is also math, what you seem to be missing is that going from a 250 > 270 ring is the same as 250 >270 weapon just because the game does the aveerage that way. It does not, each slot is weighted differently and this should be reflected in the gear average itself. It is reflected in tome prices and material cost, so it is absurd and makes no sense it is not reflected in gear average.

each slot should be weighed, each slot is not an equal increase. Way you are talking makes me feel you do not even understand how weighing works, it will look like this:

Current:
weapon 255
head 260
body 260
hands 260
belt 270
legs 270
feet 260
earring 270
neck 260
brace 270
ring 260
ring 270

3165/12 = 263 like it says in game but this is not a true average on how the different slots are weighted differently in stat giving and improvements. Now if we take my suggested weights earlier we get:

weapon 255 x10 = 2550
head 260 x3 = 780
body 260 x5 = 1300
hands 260 x 3 = 780
belt 270 x 1 = 270
legs 270 x 5 = 1350
feet 260 x 3 = 780
earring 270 x 1 = 270
neck 260 x 1 = 260
brace 270 x 1 = 270
ring 260 x 1 = 260
ring 270 x 1 = 270

9140 / 35 = 261

because of my weapon it pulled my average down then what the game says, and with good reason to do so. This will prevent all the complaints presented in this thread, like padding the right to pass an ilevel check with wrong stats.

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Originally Posted by enthauptet

I ran into a BLM with i145 staff and i250 gear on in xelphetol the other day when I was on my alt with i250 spear - I told them to get a better weapon. Even if you are terrible a weapon upgrade helps your dps tremendously.

SE really should put a minimum gear piece iLVL requirement in too, average just doesn't work as well as it's intended. It doesn't have to be crazy but 20-30 iLVLs should be fine imo. You should not be doing creator with a ravana weapon, you are just lazy.

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lets see if my weights lets this person to enter there, requirement is 210

145 x 10 = 1450
everything else = 25 x 250 =6250
7700/35 =220... welp.. it is a work in progress but the current system clearly doesn't work. Also ALL <<<<< DFs need a minimum , even if it is like sastaha level 8 average, etc. The level 50s that cap at 110 should need level 70 or something because i gotta say, having someone with 90 left, a 45 nq weapon and 20-40 level per right was unbearable. carrying people so much to the point it is like 3 people, not 4 is old. I always hated the way this games handles such situations but didn't find the need to be outspoken about it, till this thread.

Making a system that makes rush levelers take 5 minutes to gear themselves in a somewhat respectable manner is not asking much.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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I'm not implying we shouldn't have requirements for entry into various duties. We have that right now.

But let's use your example here, even though I think your weights are a little off based on the actual value of individual pieces of gear.

I used all those numbers and switched the weapon to i90. It gave me a result of: 214

So you'd be ok with someone carrying around an i90 weapon in, say... Weeping City? That'd be ok? I suspect it would not be ok and the same people in this thread who think that averaging item levels to figure out a basic gear level doesn't work would be saying the same thing.

You're looking for a programmed solution to this and there really isn't one that isn't horribly unfair. There isn't always an algorithmic way around everything. The BLM referenced in the OP is probably just making an absentminded mistake. But even if he was trying to be a troll and use a broom to kill A9, you're not going to stop him like this. People who want to waste your time are going to find a way to do it and all you're doing is creating roadblocks that both don't need to exist AND won't solve your problem.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

3165/12 = 263 like it says in game

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For jobs without an offhand, the main hand counts twice. iLvl calculation is always X/13