part of it was designed to drag you around the world map so that you would explore every zone.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToasterMan
other parts of it was designed to make it longer so that you wouldn't run out of content as fast.
perhaps they didn't think this far ahead but they wanted people to have enough stuff to do till the next patch and not quit before then.
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06-28-2016, 04:34 AMSendohJin
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06-28-2016, 08:52 AMTerin
If you have to use the phrase "if someone is serious about playing", then you've immediately set a benchmark of alienating players. It's not players' job to prove themselves worthy of FFXIV; it's the Devs' job to convince them it's worth investing in.
Having a massive variety of character fantasies is a huge boon, and the Devs need to take advantage of that. I'm not saying to hand everything to newcomers on a silver platter, but nobody should ever have to "earn" a play style they enjoy. -
06-28-2016, 09:23 AMBerethosThose comments are more about how tired the WoL is becoming and how far they push themselves due to what feels like constant threats - outside of throwing shade at the old Company of Heroes, it's really not meant to reference doing menial or tedious bullshit quests.Quote:
Originally Posted by seekified
That said, if you consider what actually happens and the impact each of the stories from the 2.x series has on the overarching story the WoL is going through, I think you'll find most of them do fall in the "oh this is actually important" category. The number of filler style quests, where you end where you began (like the Tataru quests, which are there for a bit of character development and pacing, but are indeed filler) is surprisingly low...
Unless you want rushed, bad fan-fiction level crap where only exciting action happens and you get conveniently rushed from one set piece to the next with little to no character development and patchwork connections between events.
Though I believe there's an MMO out there that already has that kind of story telling market cornered. -
06-28-2016, 09:26 AMBerethosWhat they likely thought was that people would sit down and enjoy the story all the way through, and then enjoy what the game had to offer when they finished the story. Planning ahead for those who want to skip a significant portion of your first several dozen hours with the game probably wasn't on the table very often.Quote:
Originally Posted by SendohJin
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06-28-2016, 10:16 AMErsilonIt's not a matter of worthiness, but one of commitment. Anyone can pick up this game and play it, but it isn't to everyone's tastes. Some might find it too grindy, and some might find it boring. Some will drop it for whatever reason, and some will keep playing. Only those who keep playing, who stick with it through the story will get to unlock the extra jobs. The Devs set a reasonable standard, and the players need to meet that if they want to play. It is not the responsibility of the Devs to change the game because some fresh person doesn't want to play the game as it was designed, marketed, and sold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Terin
You kinda are saying that. If you're drawn in by DRK, then you know it's a tank class. The information on it's availability is readily found on the internet. You can easily find out that it is a tank. There are differences in the three classes, yes, but you have two tanks available right from the onset of the game. You have your play style handed to you right from the beginning of the game. You're just asking the Devs to rewrite a large chunk of the story, lore, and programming so that you can play a special class from the get-go.Quote:
I'm not saying to hand everything to newcomers on a silver platter, but nobody should ever have to "earn" a play style they enjoy.
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06-28-2016, 11:31 PMTerin
You're looking at it, maybe not the "wrong" way, but the wrong way to newcomers.
Newcomers aren't interested in group make-up or mechanics. They're interested in fantasy. The Dark Knight isn't exciting because he's a tank, but because he wields a two-handed sword and wields Darkness as his own power. Not many players choose Dragoon because they like the rotation; they play them because they're diving through the sky to kill dragons, and bring back memories of Kain Highwind. Or maybe they choose Paladins, because they love that knight in shining armor archetype.
That doesn't mean they have to gut the story behind those classes; simply give newcomers a chance to experience a stripped-down version, by way of a starter Class. They might not be wielding the power of Darkness until later, but they can certainly deliver some kind of a fantasy. -
06-29-2016, 12:03 AMErsilon
So, what you're saying is that newcomers who bought the game aren't interested in playing the game? Frankly, I think you're projecting onto strawmen because I have yet to ever meet any newbie who has ever mentioned such an argument. You keep going on this fantasy kick as some sort of justification to get what you want, and you're never explaining what you're trying to say. Or it makes no sense other than "the feelz, man" which is not an argument grounded in logic. As someone else mentioned, SE isn't going to make any more classes, which seems to be what you're asking for for this. What you're wanting is a lot of work, design, balance, and rebalance for something that only a very few will even appreciate.
Yes, I get what you're trying to say. When I started playing, I wanted to be a Black Mage. That's what I wanted to do. You wanted to be a Dark Knight from the get-go. Well, you can't. That's not how the story is. They're not going to change it because you say "pretty please" because your "fantasy" ultimately means less to them than the time investment required to create this pre-job class that they would indeed have to gut things for. The 30-50 level quests for DRK? They're still locked behind the story. Unlock one, and now they have to unlock AST and MCH, which is now triple the time and effort. That's time and effort spent for a bare handful of new players who might or might not even appreciate the effort. That's time and effort that SE, as a company that makes and sells games, is going to decide that it'll be better for them as a business to roll out new jobs that will please more players than just a niche group. -
06-29-2016, 12:10 AMCanadaneYeah! Something like a boat that would bring you from popular city-state Limsa Lominsa directly to the docks of Vesper Bay outside the Scions clubhouse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanscott
Get this man on the development team! -
06-29-2016, 12:21 AMLisotteAs someone who has brought recently not 1, not 2, but 3 newbies to the game I can say that if they want to lock jobs (aka: the thing that you will identify as in this virtual world), lock jobs behind the story, they need to make the story a lot better especially at the beginning. The frequent comments I hear are "the story is all over the place," "when do I get to group up with people for the story," and "when are the story fights not facerolly."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ersilon
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06-29-2016, 12:40 AMErsilonI'll happily jump on the bandwagon that locking the jobs was a bad idea. Heck, SE themselves admitted it. The issue is that they made it that way, and that they're not going to just rework it. SE has learned from this, however, and future jobs in 4.0 aren't supposed to be locked behind 3.x. But pining for the existing stuff to change when Yoshi-P's team has been reduced for FFXV development and they have to create update content for patches, it's just not going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisotte
And yes, the story isn't exactly the best. There are a number of improvements they could do for it, and you listed several of them. Again, the problem is that the XIV team is manpower short and you're talking manpower intensive changes.