Astrologian - do you really want to rely on RNG in your group healer?

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Well it's pretty obvious not everyone will. All classes are important in a raid group, but there's half the number of healers compared to dps, same for tanks, making these roles even more so.
And now the idea is to have extremely criticial roles playing rng mini-games in the middle of a tough boss fight? Really?
I see players saying they don't bother with these - that just highlights this mechanic is not suitable for use in the sometimes hectic, fast moving raid scenario.

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If they don't bother with them, they're a terrible AST and shouldn't be playing the job.

It's also not "playing a mini game": it's an automatic reflex and requires almost equally automatic decision making. It's something added to require MORE PLAYER SKILL.

But I must ask: since someone here said you hadn't even hit 60 with any class yet (meaning you most certainly haven't healed Alex Savage yet), why do you think you're capable of passing such judgment on a job in such an environment when you yourself haven't had first-hand experience? ESPECIALLY when you haven't actually leveled AST?

This is coming from an AST main who has most of their BiS gear and has cleared up to A7S, btw. I think I know how AST performs in Savage.

Oh. And just because you feel incapable of being able to heal and manage card buffs at the same time, or that managing card buffs is an inconvenient "mini-game", doesn't mean that raid groups shouldn't utilize AST as their main healer. I said it once and I'll say it again: a good AST is over all a better choice than a good WHM in end-game raid content. (Again, NOT saying that WHM is a bad job. -.- )

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

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You're making a wild argument of semantics to justify your unreasonable opinion. I was rather specifically encouraging Zfz to continue playing the job because they seem to enjoy it. I'm not much further than you on it (I looked your character up), and honestly the cards are just part of my skill rotation. I heal when I need to heal, I dps when I don't need to heal, and I draw cards and deal with them as they come up. I can't imainge Miyha would disagree with that mindset. It is after all a part of Astro's kit and rotation.

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Originally Posted by Kerii

You're making a wild argument of semantics to justify your unreasonable opinion. I was rather specifically encouraging Zfz to continue playing the job because they seem to enjoy it. I'm not much further than you on it (I looked your character up), and honestly the cards are just part of my skill rotation. I heal when I need to heal, I dps when I don't need to heal, and I draw cards and deal with them as they come up. I can't imainge Miyha would disagree with that mindset. It is after all a part of Astro's kit and rotation.

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I absolutely agree. :>

Also, any new/future ASTs who may be looking here and reconsidering the job: don't. It does have a slightly higher learning curve than WHM, but it can be a lot more fun with the card/buff management. The negativity toward the class is coming from someone who has no idea what they're talking about: note that those who do have repeatedly pointed out how they're wrong.

It doesn't take a lvl 60 to work out that rng introduced as a gimmick has no place in a raid healer. Lvl 60's don't just suddenly get some remarkable insight that no one else can see, as though others haven't had years of raiding in several mmo's over 15+ years. In fact the effort v reward of past mmo's would probably cause half of this player base to quit. Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Priests, Clerics, Chloromancers, Mystics... raided playing all these and more in structured raiding guilds.

I agree that the skills should be used - they are overshadowed of course by the class's other abilities, but that doesn't mean they are useless (well mostly). The topic here is how they are called up - the introduced pot luck mechanic, the lucky dip, rng, click and hope, call it what you will.

With these skills, if rng is with you, you'll perform better than if rng is against you. That to me is wrong. Class performance should be down to the player, not click - scrap it, click - swap it, click - scrap it, click - store it - just for the chance to use a minor ability.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

It doesn't take a lvl 60 to work out that rng introduced as a gimmick has no place in a raid healer. Lvl 60's don't just suddenly get some remarkable insight that no one else can see, as though others haven't had years of raiding in several mmo's over 15+ years. .

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That's fine, but RNG isn't tied to their healing ability. Infact WHM and SCHs arguably have more RNG tied to it through procs and crit shields.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

It doesn't take a lvl 60 to work out that rng introduced as a gimmick has no place in a raid healer. Lvl 60's don't just suddenly get some remarkable insight that no one else can see, as though others haven't had years of raiding in several mmo's over 15+ years. In fact the effort v reward of past mmo's would probably cause half of this player base to quit. Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Priests, Clerics, Chloromancers, Mystics... raided playing all these and more in structured raiding guilds.

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People are mentioning your level, because you also are saying things like this:

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Well it's pretty obvious not everyone will.
All classes are important in a raid group, but there's half the number of healers compared to dps, same for tanks, making these roles even more so.
And now the idea is to have extremely criticial roles playing rng mini-games in the middle of a tough boss fight? Really?
I see players saying they don't bother with these - that just highlights this mechanic is not suited for use in the sometimes hectic, fast moving raid scenario.

If these were a one click use, and shared a common cool down people would definitely use them.

By all means have your mini-games - on your mobile phone - not in an intensive raid environment.

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You haven't even raided with the job, but you're making assumptions about how effective it is compared to other healers. Other people who have raided with the job have put these worries to rest for you. The randomness of the cards doesn't affect AST in the way you think it might. A good AST has no problems juggling their abilities.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

It doesn't take a lvl 60 to work out that rng introduced as a gimmick has no place in a raid healer.

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How would you know? You have zero actual experience in end-game raid content, and it this rate, it will be a while before you do. (If you even manage to get a group with how ill-informed and stubborn you are.)

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

Lvl 60's don't just suddenly get some remarkable insight that no one else can see, as though others haven't had years of raiding in several mmo's over 15+ years.

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You're right: they get it through a great amount of time playing their class in end-game content and learning by experience. And hun, this isn't all those other MMORPGs you've played. I've played MMOs myself for around 10 years, and there is absolutely NOTHING that makes AST an incapable raid healer. But since you even brought "general MMO experience" up and think it makes you qualified to criticize a class you have NO idea about, I'm guessing you're one of... those gamers...

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

In fact the effort v reward of past mmo's would probably cause half of this player base to quit. Paladins, Druids, Shamans, Priests, Clerics, Chloromancers, Mystics... raided playing all these and more in structured raiding guilds.

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...Yup. Definitely one of those gamers.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

I agree that the skills should be used - they are overshadowed of course by the class's other abilities, but that doesn't mean they are useless (well mostly). The topic here is how they are called up - the introduced pot luck mechanic, the lucky dip, rng, click and hope, call it what you will.

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All well and good if you don't personally like the RNG in the card buffs, but to assert that they are unsuitable for end-game content just because YOU don't like it is simply ignorant. As has been said numerous times (which it seems you've ignored since you are almost repeating yourself now), the RNG element has NOTHING to do with an AST's raid capabilities and healing. If anything, it adds an extra UTILITY for people to use to give the class more to offer and add an extra element of CHALLENGE. (Because yes, each card is useful, and the player needs to make an instant decision as to how the card is going to be used.)

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

With these skills, if rng is with you, you'll perform better than if rng is against you. That to me is wrong. Class performance should be down to the player, not click - scrap it, click - swap it, click - scrap it, click - store it - just for the chance to use a minor ability.

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Not really. Your group might have slightly higher DPS. If you/your co-healer are awful at MP management, a Ewer might make things easier. You might boost the TP of a DPS in a fight like A7S when it's really needed, or offer tanks shorter CDs on their defensive skills. But even if you have "not so great" RNG with your card draws, it makes ZERO difference in the performance of the class. Like none. Zip. Zilch. What makes the difference is the player KNOWING THEIR CLASS and knowing how/when to use their CDs, and KNOWING THE FIGHT and when/how much damage is going to come out. The cards are just an extra thing to manage (and extra advantage for the group) and add an extra CHALLENGE to the class, to require more of that "player skill" you seem intent on insisting doesn't exist with AST. When is this going to get through to you?

Now I'm starting to see why AST is considered the most challenging healer to play, since even "MMO veterans" like yourself seem incapable of grasping such a simple concept.

People need to stop to rely on Astrologians who just try to fish Arrow and Balance Cards... Ewer/Spire for Royal Road. This is simply Bullshit.

Astrologians that are good and love their Job do know what to do with every Card and not to mention, they also know how to react if they just drew a Card. Royal Road it? Give it straight away? Save it since the Boss will be invincible for a moment? I don't say there is no RNG involved when it comes to Card Drawing, yet... what you do with the Cards is the Factor of becoming a good Astrologian. Like I stated in the first Sentence... these Astrologians are just horrible.

I'd say, AST is in a damn extremely fine position as a Healer right now.
I do Main this Job and I simply love it and just because there is a bit RNG mixed in ( and it's not much RNG unlike SCH / WHM ) doesn't stop me from playing this amazing Job.

Cards are just a small factor, have you seen all the insane Tools Astrologians have? Synastry? Time Dilation? Disable? etc ... etc ... Synastry put on the Main Tank beats Divine Seal and Illumination and this is no Joke.

Honestly between WHM and AST (Don't have SCH unlocked xD) AST is my go to everytime. I used to main WHM but after playing AST I can't even bring myself to level WHM, that and ESOs hunting is taking the leveling roulette. I said it before but yeah the cards may have a bit of a random and as others have said, as long as you know what to do with each card the moment it is pulled you have nothing to fear with us. Can't really add more to this than my backing that AST is capable healer than should not be discouraged. Even when AST was "under powered" and people basically despised it or even refused to allow them I was able to change peoples mind because how well I used it, with the buffs they have given to us since we are as capable as our healing brothers and sisters or possibly more so.

As a SCH main and somebody who has raided all healer roles in end-game raids:

The RNG for a Crit'lo is a lot more 'factoring' than Cards. Getting a free Cure II is a lot more 'factoring' than Cards.

But everybody in this thread has already mentioned that, lols. Healing RNG is a lot worse than Card RNG, and AST has like none healing RNG.