Why do Archers suck so bad against Ifrit?

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Originally Posted by Neasa

Problem is, SE keeps wanting PUG to tank, but the playerbase doesn't see them that way. :\

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it just don't sit well a PUG as a tank, tank need armour

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Originally Posted by grandm

it just don't sit well a PUG as a tank, tank need armour

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As muich as it pains me to say it as a career-long PLD tank, blink/evasion tanks can work--look at Ninja in FFXI. The problem with pug is it needs either more evasion skills or more countering skills--preferably both. Of course, I'd rather have more DD skills on it myself,I always enjoyed playing MNK as the character who beat people's faces in as well or better than someone using a big sword. Maybe MNK will be more like that.

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Originally Posted by grandm

it just don't sit well a PUG as a tank, tank need armour

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Who needs armor when you don't get hit?

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Originally Posted by Demacia

Who needs armor when you don't get hit?

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i think you miss understand me. the term tank in MMO comes from the great big metal that we use in wars in RL. all i'm saying is when think tank i think heavy armour, thus when in MMO tank makes me think heavy armour. i'm not saying evading PUG's wouldn't make a good tank. it's just not the image i see

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

Isn't there a tactic using archers out there to defeat Ifrit? I swore I heard one. Anyway, really any class can be in that fight as long as they know what to do. Archers can stay at the distance lancers do and work the same way to avoid all of Ifrit's ridiculousness. I'm sure bloodletter would be welcomed and their larger mp pools to raise or heal other melee that may need it is an added benefit as well.

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No Bloodletter was seriously nerfed. It's front end and ending damage were majorly reduced, and it's much much MUCH harder to get the DoT to even proc.. especially on Ifrit. And when it doesn't proc, which is most of the time, you just wasted TP (in which TP generation is by far the worst now for ARC) on a WS that does virtually no damage. And bringing an ARC to an 'endgame boss' fight to just support heal clearly shows that the class has been seriously broken.

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Originally Posted by Coldbrand

Power creep rules. I want an extremely high power level, competition between two broken things is infinitely more fun than competition between two lame things. Marvel Vs Capcom 2 > Street Fighter 4. Legacy > Standard.

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Yet 3rd Strike > MvC2 and TSP Block Constructed was the best MTG constructed format that ever saw sanctioned play. The reason Standard has been more or less bad about since LRW is, funnily enough, power creep. Besides, the only reasons why Legacy hasn't degenerated to a game of constant turn two combo kills is the ban list and the existence of FoW. The meta has heavy RPS elements anyway and man do you feel silly looking at your T1 Nacatl when the opponent opens with T1 Dark Ritual into get you with Tendrils.

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All nerfing does is create an endless stream of flavors of the month.

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And buffing doesn't? You buff someone more than the rest and you have your flavour of the month right there.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We passed along the concern that archers (and other classes as well) feel like they're unwanted in Ifrit battles and that is something that the dev. team will be working to fix when making the upcoming class balance adjustments.

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By balance adjustments you mean balance 'shifting'. Next class adjustments X class wont be looked at and Y class will be a superpower.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

We passed along the concern that archers (and other classes as well) feel like they're unwanted in Ifrit battles and that is something that the dev. team will be working to fix when making the upcoming class balance adjustments.

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Feeling Unwanted is a bit of an understatement, our Gladiator is out DPSing Archers in the Ifrit fight. Mana is to much of a precious resource to waist on DPS hence why Lancers shine since they can avoid sear damage effectively cutting out MRD and PGL. Being able to spam cure like we did pre 1.18 was to much but I think this all stems from the great healing nerf either the MP cost is to high or the ability to refill mp pools is to low. Ethers are a joke they are primarily being used to start the mp regen process quicker since it takes way to long for the game to register when someone should be regening MP. Its common practice now for healers to not heal any DPS classes because they have to conserve mp for the tank so DPS classes have to be self sufficient which kind of defeats the purpose of a team based game.

I have a lot of faith in the Dev team but I hope they are not just leaning into the nerf this and nerf that to create balance, they really need to look into the core of these encounters and before they release it test every class and ask themselves is there a reason I would pick any other DPS class to bring over another for this fight? IMO all DPS classes should be viable in every fight some may be a bit better at this or that but the end result should remain the same.

Please pass along to the Dev team that we want balance created not classes nerfed.

I'm pretty sure Square is on record for saying that blink/evasion tanking was something that they didn't like and wasn't intended to exist

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Originally Posted by Yenn

I'm pretty sure Square is on record for saying that blink/evasion tanking was something that they didn't like and wasn't intended to exist

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blink tanking they didnt plan on, evasion tanking im not sure about, they gave theif a shield early on. As far as archer, its gearing up to be support supposedly. and its still pretty useful in darkhold, ifrit is a burn him down fight, not all encounters will have the same mechanics