Please be kind - Lowbie dungeon mini-rant

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

But yes, I totally agree that speed runs are dependent on the party as a whole. What I was getting at was that it only takes 1 weak link for a speed run to turn into a "let's take twice as long due to wipes" run. If the DPS are the weak point, it's more likely that you'll be able to push through, but it'll still be a slow run due to the lack of burning. But if a tank or healer can't hold up with the speed run, it's pretty much certain you're going to wipe.

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I love when we wipe during the bees in Arboratorium because tank said to focus on wall but not stunning the Hornet.
Typical case of a speed run going wrong.

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Originally Posted by Reisui

That's correct.
You had a jerk in your team, and I feel sorry for it.

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1 of many sadly that I run into as a tank on Na side -_-;;

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

Thing is about the help is most people admit to forcing it. To truly help a person out it best if you offer to, ask if they want advice. If you give it out with out asking it is seen as an insult. People learn in many different ways based how their mind works, how their personality is and how they were raised.

For me I'd rather learn by doing, I'm up for advice if you ask me, as I'm pretty open for tips. Thing is I'm more a learn as I'm doing. Practice by doing, and people giving me room to learn. I don't like stuff forced on me, as it just causes me stress and anxiety (part of my autism). You also can't force a person to learn, if someone isn't playing well and giving a bad attitude and making your job/role much harder you are free to kick or leave.

Don't stop helping people over a few bad apples, that just generalizing.

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Thanks for your understanding, I try my best to help everyone, as long as they are open for it. I just hope the same in return, that they respect us also, we've seen a lot, did a lot, so we're well placed to give advice.

@Malice, that is not what I meant *lol*... an exception as to taking to some extend the group as a whole to decide if you going to make a speed run or not ..if this makes sense.

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Originally Posted by Azazua_azura

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I'm really sorry you've had experiences where you were just flat out ignored or told off for speaking :(

If you are ever grouped with me and speak up requesting a slower run, I'd be happy to oblige. I do default to running faster though, as I mentioned earlier, it's much more fun to me. To clarify, I don't mean it's kind of more fun, I mean I have fun when I speed run and I am bored to tears when we go slowly. It's a fairly large difference, hence my gravitation towards faster runs.

I don't go into a DF dungeon with any expectations. I'll do whatever the rest of the party decides to do, simple as that. I just want a smooth run. As long as I get that I'm happy.

That being said, I believe that majority vote should rule on whether or not to speedrun something. For example, yesterday I did the main story roulette. One person was new and said they planned to watch all cutscenes. No one complained but continued on through the instance. That new player started complaining, asking the party to run the instance "as intended" and calling everyone jerks for not doing so.

That instance is, what, two years old now? It sucks that they came into the game late, but it's old content and everyone let them watch the cutscenes anyway. But, to them, majority vote did not seem to matter. I followed along with the party without saying too much. I just wanted my run done one way or another,a nd also did not feel like getting into an argument that seemed to be going nowhere (at some point the party was compared to Nazis, lol, I don't even... No one was even being rude to the new player.).

When I did the main story (I've been playing since 2.0 closed beta) people were already in the speed-run mentality of that place. I knew that, expected it, watched my cutscenes as they ran through. It's not a big deal.

I have no issues with speed running be it a low level dungeon or high level dungeon. But the priority of one player does not dictate the priority of the group in a dungeon. If you enter a dungeon you are part of a team, and need to play as a team member. Tempers flare and wipes happen when people chose too ignore the priorities and capabilities of the group. Communication in dungeons is not as good as it should be, but stating what your priority is when entering can help the group decide how too proceed.

Interesting thread, I'm currently running a little experiment as I've never understood the "skip as many mobs as possible" mentality many tanks have in leveling content. I'm leveling both WAR and DRK (WAR from 19, DRK from 30) I've decided to do all my leveling through dungeons in the DF.
I start with the same greeting everytime (it's actualy a macro lol) and it basically says hello then asks if the group want a full clear or to skip to boss fights. I'm treating it like a 3 person democracy, my vote doesn't count as I'm fine with either so the other 3 people get to vote with how the dungeon goes. So far I've done about 20-30 dungeon runs doing this and not once has anyone said they didn't want the exp and want to skip mobs, in every single instance at least 1, sometimes 2 but never 3 people have said they'd like to do a full clear for the exp. I'm going to do this all the way to 60 with both tanks (as well as PLD when they catch up to it at lvl 50) and I'm interested to see how it goes, I'm sure eventually someone is going to want to skip but if they get out voted its tough luck for them.

I'm now getting used to people getting the mapping achievment lol, especially in Haukke Manor. The biggest difference so far though is Brayflox's longstop, if you skip mobs in there you probably come away with half the exp and miss loads of chests which gearing players want. That dungeon gives good exp for it's level too so why so many skip them is beyond me to be honest. It is certainly good to just ask though as I feel that most tanks believe everyone wants to skip mobs to the boss fights but my little experiment so far is showing it to be completely the opposite.

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

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{Hello!}

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On topic: I was levelling my monk from around 20+ all the way to 60, just ate food and proceed with dungeon runs/levelling roulette etc. Speed runs everywhere, it was so fast that I decided to go for another dungeon run after. Never really had an issue with people skipping/not doing full clears even if they do or do not need them, I'd just go with the flow.

However, as I was levelling lately, I did get matched with tanks that tend to not use their range enmity weaponskill to pull and just run into mobs and flash/unleash/overpower, sometimes they do it slow enough that the healer/ranged dps hits/dots/heals and the trash starts running towards them as the tank continues to tunnel vision and only use enmity combo on a single trash.

PS: The tank was sync and geared (lvl 54 gears from HW) and we were doing a ARR dungeon

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Originally Posted by Evumeimei

That being said, I believe that majority vote should rule on whether or not to speedrun something. For example, yesterday I did the main story roulette. One person was new and said they planned to watch all cutscenes. No one complained but continued on through the instance. That new player started complaining, asking the party to run the instance "as intended" and calling everyone jerks for not doing so.

That instance is, what, two years old now? It sucks that they came into the game late, but it's old content and everyone let them watch the cutscenes anyway. But, to them, majority vote did not seem to matter.

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Doesn't matter how long ago it was released - it is not old content for new players.
Majority should not decide the pace - this is not a democracy. The proper pace of a dungeon run is that of the slowest player of the team - as long as it is not ridiculously slow.
(Everybody can handle slow runs. Not everybody can handle fast ones.)