selling coil runs and primals

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

Giving the bots and conscripted labor drones WAY too much credit. They do repetitive tasks for many, many iterations to make the gil, not one highly skilled one that takes months of work and practice to execute (short handed even).

Stop insulting the people that can do this. Wag the finger in the right direction.

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Who're you saying I am insulting? If it's you then grow thicker skin, if it's someone else, then who made you their spokesperson to come and misunderstand what I am saying?

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Originally Posted by tocsin

Also, keep in mind, I cant even clear snowcloak on my own, legitimately. I had to be carried dead, through it. This is because of my 2 second action delay on any actions, due to my using remote play.

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I would consider switching games. 4 man dungeons are meant to be completed via DF. If you can't do that w/o being carried then you will be buying every single piece of future content.

Someone has a perfectly legal product or service. Someone else wants that product or service and offers up perfectly legal form of payment. Parties exchange product/service for payment. Economics says hi.

There are only 2 arguments that get repeated ad nauseum in every one of these threads foe every game of all time.

1: it supports gil selling. Deal with it. Everything you can buy with gil supports gil selling. The fact that gil can buy ANYTHING AT ALL supports gil selling. As long as gil has value, it supports gil selling by its mere existance. Get over it.

2: It's immoral/bad on principle. (And a number of variations of how exactly it's bad/immoral). Subjective. Opinion. No more weight than the opinions of those you rail against.

Selling runs has and always will exist and there is nothing inherently 'evil' about it, only what players project on it, and is no more supportive of rmt than crafting or housing, minions, glamour, or anything that also costs gil.

This isn't a predatory payday lending firm. They sell a product (clear) for a price. They don't force anyone to partake, or trap them with interest rates. There's a market so people with means will fill it. As long as people want clears they can't get as easily as they want, there will be buyers. As long as buyers exist there will be sellers. Stop projecting moral BS into a simple transaction between 2 consenting parties.

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Originally Posted by Darra

Who're you saying I am insulting? If it's you then grow thicker skin, if it's someone else, then who made you their spokesperson to come and misunderstand what I am saying?

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I wasn't the one giving the implication that gil sellers are wrapped up in the content selling business.

To imply that they do is trampling all over players a lot more skilled than you or I. And lumping them in with bots and exploiters is not going to make you look good.

As a taxi driver, I would never know for sure if someone is paying their fare with dirty coke money. I might suspect certain individuals, but I must needs not be choosy if I'm to make my daily bread. Or pay for my yacht.

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Originally Posted by Ayrie

I wasn't the one giving the implication that gil sellers are wrapped up in the content selling business.

To imply that they do is trampling all over players a lot more skilled than you or I. And lumping them in with bots and exploiters is not going to make you look good.

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At no point did I ever say that those who sell content kills are the ones also selling gil. I also never lumped them in with exploiters or bots, why the hell would I when I have participated in kill selling? And for the record, I really don't care if a few people on here think my comment makes me look bad, 99/100 people don't even read the forums. Translated just for you, what I said was: When a player spends 30million gil or 100million gil on kills, and they have no DOH classes at 50, in all likeliness they are buying the gil. I also said that 90% of people that can craft and/or can do some selling of their own, can not make that kind of money fast enough to then go spend it in that fashion on a kill. If you want to twist what I've just said into something it's not, feel free.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I would consider switching games. 4 man dungeons are meant to be completed via DF. If you can't do that w/o being carried then you will be buying every single piece of future content.

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im fine with that. I'm a 4 star crafter, and I love it. Even if I have to buy every single piece of content, it still wont affect my enjoyment of the game.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I think you need to add that if it is not against the laws of the country you are resident in, since many countries now have written laws governing online acts and behavior (such as stalking). Further, unless you're aware of another definition of ethics, ethics are personal. Your ethics are individual to you and may/may not differ from mine. What matters is whether our individual ethics align with the ethics of the organizations/communities/society we are part of. If our ethics are not aligned with one or more of those, we may find ourselves being excluded by whichever organization, community or society our ethics differ from.

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That is actually included in the ToS. (against written laws of your country.)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

There is a benefit, it is simple the case that it is something you (and many others like you) do not value. That benefit is the satisfaction of helping someone, and if that player is on your server, the benefit might develop into a friendship. But hey, I guess gil is worth more than personal satisfaction, or potential friendship - to some.

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Quite agreed. The benefit of MAYBE someone becoming your friend, you cant eat that. you also cant use that to buy Crafting Materia.

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Originally Posted by ExKage

True enough. When I end up with Shiva HM and I'm a healer, I usually end up leaving people dead if that's what they end up being most of the time. Either problem with DF or he chose not to go into DF knowing he would be dead on the floor and maybe he'd get harassed for it. /shrug

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Exactly this. If I have enough gil to pay people to deal with it, I dont want to inconvenience random people with dealing with my sorry butt. Its more of a matter of ethics than anything.

Ferrari should stop selling expensive cars since they are clearly causing more people to become drug dealers. You can't say there are not drug dealers buying expensive cars. Drugs kill kids. Therefore Ferrari supports killing children.

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Originally Posted by Aethaeryn

Or you can be really unlucky and do dozens of spiritbond sets and NEVER see a tier4 other than elemental materia. I was doing 3-5 sets per day for weeks, and most days I barely broke even or lost gil with spiritbonding. Now prices have dropped so much on tier3s on my server that you are losing gil unless you land a good tier4 or farm all of the mats and craft stuff yourself. Maybe i70 spiritbonding is better these days, but not everyone has enough friends to spam t4 to make it worth the time investment nor wants to spend 20mins queueing for Castrum Meridianum and risk being kicked.

Spiritbonding is not some magical method of printing gil anymore. Maybe Cactuar server's tier3s are still worth tons of gil, though.

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Tell me more about your signature.

I can't believe people still cry on the forums about run-selling.

People who sell runs help less than spectacular players get clears. They take their time to drag someone through content. Why should they do it for free? Not how it works in the real world, why should it work that way here?