Once you start giving out the Carbontwines

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

Working on FCOB now, I can still safely say that people like you that hint (or flat out state) that people that don't do FCOB shouldn't get access to any way to improve their character really get on my nerves. In addition, I think your whole i130 gear is "more than just stats, it's so much more" is total BS. It's stats and e-peen and nothing more.

There is no NEED to overgear if you are one of those players that perfection rotations etc.... see those raisdgroups that clear all contant day 1... I am none of those and see it as nice option.
I dont see any point not making high ilvl gear available for everyone. BUT noone needs i102 for T5 or i120 for T9 and those partyfinders make me angry :mad: the current system makes people gear imo TOO FAST its a catch up system I accept it but when i leveled my alt i was i 100 in 2, maybe 3 weeks only by st weekly/hunts/soldiery gear (was pre poetics).
Give people time to get used to your class before you are i120 but sadly in many minds is a ilvl makes me better thought :(
I see the possibility to get those upgrade items (which names they every may carry) outside of coils as a nice option. I dont do hunts.... I dont feel like grinding this... I wait for the way they add the tomestone for weapon (might get whm wep for alt) and the item for left side. I dont see a rush.
My ilvl is 118 on main sch and idm if it stays that "low". I start FCOB atm and the raiding is not oh I feel better I just enjoy doing mechanics.... and now I forget what else I wanted to say :rolleyes:

Edit: Oh yes no need to make the ilevel higher for WoD gear. But some primal dropping i130 pieces like ex primals did at 2.1 release for at that time on i90 YES I WANT THIS. Not only tomes and Final coil should make you get that better gear :O

Oh okay, I finally understand.

Non-raiders have fun with i130 gear.

Raiders have more possibilities with i130 gear.

Not the same goal, but still useful for both of them.

So, yeah, ok, I understand your point of view.

It's like playing football or basketball with a tennis ball.

As a footballer I don't understand why you want to use the same ball as me, but you have your reasons. Am I right ?

Cheers.

PS : And no, I'm really not elitist, I just wanted to understand clearly your goal with 130 gear, cause for me there is (was) only one goal : optimization. Now I understand clearly your way of thinking and your goal with the i130, even if I don't have the same.
I still think that the i130 should be a raider reward, just because for me the i130 is an optimization tool, but I can't blame ppl that having another utility with that gear.

PS2 : Nah Northern, my gear isn't only stats and e-peen. I'm working hard to improve my skill as SCH, i130 helps me because it gives more way to do it. I'm free to talk with anyone about the optimization of my class : )

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Originally Posted by Kumabear76

All right, I'll get into this convo, but let me bring in a different point of view. As a game designer, we have to look into the large scale of things to attempt to "predict" how players will react. In some cases, this failed miserably (the Hunt and its abuse when it launched). In the case of i130 gear, the reason why it is locked behind FCoB is quite simple. It is meant as a justifiable reward for doing FCoB. If i130 gear was available outside of FCoB, no one would do it except people who like doing it for fun, thus only a small portion of players would continue FCoB without a viable reward in place for all that (theoretical) hard grueling work. It's the risk vs reward system at its finest.

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i130 gear is now available outside of Coil via hunts though. This is basically a catch-up patch. Tomestones will probably be put into WoD soon enough, maybe as soon as the next patch. The relic quest gets its new advancement soon too, and will quite possibly end up being BiS until the next patch (maybe even the expansion since we're not getting a new raid till then). That seems to be the cycle that they're on for raid/relic gear.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

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Honestly, some people just assume raiders are elitist completely independently of what Utsu might say. It's not exclusive to FFXIV's community - it exists in just about every game that has raiding. "High-tier" content is by nature exclusive. You need gear, you need skills, you need the ability to test mechanics and follow instructions. Some people that don't necessarily have one or more of those will inevitably assume that those that do are elitists whether it's true or not. That's not to say I think the poster you're replying to is wording their posts the best, but I think some assumptions are being made about her reasons. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Clearly you do care else you would not be posting in here against the suggestion. Your actively trying to shoot down or shut down the suggestion because you care so much about it.

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Just because someone disagrees with you on the subject doesn't necessarily mean they're deliberately trying to hold you back or hold you down. They may disagree with it for completely different reasons altogether. Hell, I've heard that some people only want the Augmented Ironworks because that makes it dyeable. I personally think that's bit silly, but I know how people can be about their glamours so it's kind of a 'whatever' thing to me. I wish people would quit pulling this "if you don't agree with me, it means you are _____" argument and just stick to a civil discussion. People are allowed to have dissenting opinions. She said she doesn't care if you get the same gear. Why not take that at face value? A lot of the Ironworks gear is BiS so it helps raiders hone their gear too.

I'm a raider myself (only working on T12 so I'm not as hardcore as some, but I mean there are tons of people that are stuck at T5 or T9) and I don't care if someone has Augmented Ironworks gear. It's not like SE is giving away free Dreadwyrm anytime soon, so the fact that I have a few pieces of it already marks me as someone that's doing something to stand out from the people that do hunts all day for their i130 gear. I'm liking the weekly quest for the Carboncoat, and my static hunts whenever we can because Coil only coughs up so much upgrade material. Most raiders have no problem getting on the hunt train to upgrade some items, especially for alt classes.

One general question.
The expansion is due to hit in what, 2 months? 2.51 on the 24th, 2.52 late March, then 3.0?
As soon as the level cap goes to 60, the entire gearing curve will change.
Let me give you an example. In RIFT, I went into the expansion at lvl 50 with pretty much the best available gear. By lvl 55 higher quality quest rewards and dungeon drops were better than my lvl 50 raid gear. By lvl 58, common mob drops were BETTER in main stats, weapon damage, and defense, than my lvl 50 raid gear.

How long will it take people go get from 50 to 60?
When the game launched, people went from 1 to 50 in a week. I would not be surprised if people go from 50 to 60 in a week as well.

Once 3.0 hits, we will probably OUTGROW the best gear available in under a week, in less than a single reset cycle. So does it really matter?
Looking at the bosses in FCOB, you really can do them in half 110 and half poetics, as long as your group properly executes the mechanics (ie nobody dies). Gear does not play nearly as big of a role in FCOB as it did in First Coil.

Remember First Coil was designed such that we would need about half i90 to beat T5. Second Coil was tuned down a bit in terms of gear, but was heavier on mechanics, in exchange we got Savage Coil. Now we have FCOB, the pre-expansion raid. Lots of mechanics, lots of group responsibility... fewer massive dps checks.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Honestly, Utsu, you are not doing yourself any favors at all in dispelling a stigma about raiders being elitists. In fact, you're simply making yourself look more elitist with each post you write.

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That will never be dispelled and I don't think anyone cares to do so, since non-raiders will call you an elitist simply for being a raider.

While I think that non-raiders should be able to upgrade their gear, I also think that non-raid gear should either be 5-10 ilvls below raid gear and only be upgradable to the same ilvl with a raid drop OR the upgrade material can be obtainable from elsewhere BUT the upgrade item should not be obtainable in higher quantities than raiders have access to, especially not from completely braindead content, like it is now...

I doubt we "outgrow" i130 gear might be just about i55 AF was at newly 50 or maybe it will be around Darklight in its "power".

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Originally Posted by Utsu

Oh okay, I finally understand.

...

As a footballer I don't understand why you want to use the same ball as me, but you have your reasons. Am I right ?

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i130 helps me because it gives more way to do it. I'm free to talk with anyone about the optimization of my class : )

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You still don't seem to understand, it's more like high school/college basketball teams wanting to play with the same quality of basketballs as a NBA team.

What is the end goal of your optimization, to clear content faster and easier? That is not something exclusive to top raids.

This its a great idea, specially cuz poetics/ WoD and Final Coil gear have diferent secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by StouterTaru

You still don't seem to understand, it's more like high school/college basketball teams wanting to play with the same quality of basketballs as a NBA team.

What is the end goal of your optimization, to clear content faster and easier? That is not something exclusive to top raids.

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That's not my goal, my goal is to have fun, like you. And optimize my class is my way of having fun on this game. Finding the best ways to play my character is my goal to have fun while playing. Like Ash Ketchum : I WANNA BEEEEE THE VERY BEST *tududu* etc.

And okay for you example, I get it, cheers.