Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

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Originally Posted by Krausus

No not in an MMO without PvP, who cares if someone spends the time to twink their character in a game that has no PvP therefore no negative effects on game balance


to late, for one crafters rarely make rank 25 gear and when they do the price is outrageous because they rarely make it and two there is already mid rank gear better then crafted gear that is much easier to get from NMs. And also people will still buy crafted gear or have somone make the gear for them to use until they get the better gear.

You are making up issues and blowing them out of proportion to try and push your opinions as fact this is hyperbole at its best.

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welcome to half the arguement ive been putting up, have they started to throw insults at you yet?

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

welcome to half the arguement ive been putting up, have they started to throw insults at you yet?

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mostly civil except on a few occasions.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

No not in an MMO without PvP, who cares if someone spends the time to twink their character in a game that has no PvP therefore no negative effects on game balance

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Just because there's no PvP doesn't mean that there's no game balance. We're still all competing with each other even in a PvE-only environment. We still compete to have the best items, and be the best players. If there's no skill requirement to backup our underlying accomplishments, then those accomplishments are rendered meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

to late, for one crafters rarely make rank 25 gear and when they do the price is outrageous because they rarely make it and two there is already mid rank gear better then crafted gear that is much easier to get from NMs. And also people will still buy crafted gear or have somone make the gear for them to use until they get the better gear.

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Just because the current crafting economy is already in a hampered state does not mean that we are free to screw it up even more. It means we must do all that we can do carefully apply the laws of economics to the game economy and create a system that works.

Yes, there is mid rank gear better than crafted gear that you can get from steamrolling rank 30NMs. And look what that did to the market for mid-rank gear.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

You are making up issues and blowing them out of proportion to try and push your opinions as fact this is hyperbole at its best.

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If you want to ignore the basic game design principles that have been demonstrated over and over by every game ever, then by all means, consider everything I say to be "made up".

There are very real reasons why I'm suggesting the things that I do.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Just because there's no PvP doesn't mean that there's no game balance. We're still all competing with each other even in a PvE-only environment. We still compete to have the best items, and be the best players. If there's no skill requirement to backup our underlying accomplishments, then those accomplishments are rendered meaningless.


Just because the current crafting economy is already in a hampered state does not mean that we are free to screw it up even more. It means we must do all that we can do carefully apply the laws of economics to the game economy and create a system that works.

Yes, there is mid rank gear better than crafted gear that you can get from steamrolling rank 30NMs. And look what that did to the market for mid-rank gear.


If you want to ignore the basic game design principles that have been demonstrated over and over by every game ever, then by all means, consider everything I say to be "made up".

There are very real reasons why I'm suggesting the things that I do.

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1) the crafting economy is not hampered, by anything but itself, competition amongst crafters is the only thing bringing prices up or down, the NM gear didnt affect it at all(i heavily sell stuff on this market, in that specific range so i see it first hand)

2) every mmo ever? really? i dont see caps on every mmo ever, so obviously this has nothing to do with that comment, there are not caps in every game ever, only a select few, very very few at that

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Just because there's no PvP doesn't mean that there's no game balance. We're still all competing with each other even in a PvE-only environment. We still compete to have the best items, and be the best players. If there's no skill requirement to backup our underlying accomplishments, then those accomplishments are rendered meaningless.

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BS, plain and simple lol competing with rank 25 content.... really?!

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Just because the current crafting economy is already in a hampered state does not mean that we are free to screw it up even more. It means we must do all that we can do carefully apply the laws of economics to the game economy and create a system that works.

Yes, there is mid rank gear better than crafted gear that you can get from steamrolling rank 30NMs. And look what that did to the market for mid-rank gear.

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Nothing the mid rank NM gear did nothing at all to the economy, the ability to wear high rank gear that had very little negative side effects at non optimal ranks is what destroyed the mid rank economy. You should really maybe have this debate with someone that hasn't been playing since beta, you might actually be able to trick them into believing that NM gear ruined the economy and that the economy was not ruined long before the NM gear came out.

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If you want to ignore the basic game design principles that have been demonstrated over and over by every game ever, then by all means, consider everything I say to be "made up".

There are very real reasons why I'm suggesting the things that I do.

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I'm not ignoring it almost every single MMO out there has no capping system its the norm you are the one pushing for the unusual, and your idea of competition has made this a personal issue for you.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

1) i dont see caps on every mmo ever, so obviously this has nothing to do with that comment, there are not caps in every game ever, only a select few, very very few at that

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I'm not ignoring it almost every single MMO out there has no capping system its the norm

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Must I repeat myself again?

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Important point to take away here is that in WoW, there is essentially a pseudo-level cap since most of the raid loot is bound to your character, so you have to play as that character to acquire the items anyway.

In FF14, since a single character can be multiple classes, using your high rank class to easily farm items for your lower ranked class would ruin game balance.

This is why the need for level caps in games like FF11 and FF14 is much more necessary than in other MMOs where you can't be every job on one character.

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And I didn't say that every other game has caps. I'm saying I'm taking the principles of human nature and game design that apply to every other game ever, and applying them to FF14 towards a better gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

BS, plain and simple lol competing with rank 25 content.... really?!

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Yes. If items require skill to be obtained, there will be prestige attached to them, regardless of rank.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Nothing the mid rank NM gear did nothing at all to the economy, the ability to wear high rank gear that had very little negative side effects at non optimal ranks is what destroyed the mid rank economy. You should really maybe have this debate with someone that hasn't been playing since beta, you might actually be able to trick them into believing that NM gear ruined the economy and that the economy was not ruined long before the NM gear came out.

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I know the economy was in a mess before the NMs came out. All I said was that the NM gear made it worse. Can you not see how the principles of supply, demand, and the acquisition of scarce (and not-so scarce) resources applies here?

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Originally Posted by Krausus

you are the one pushing for the unusual, and your idea of competition has made this a personal issue for you.

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I have no idea why you think this is a personal issue for me.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the NM gear didnt affect it at all(i heavily sell stuff on this market, in that specific range so i see it first hand)

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Tell that to all the pissed off crafters and gatherers in this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...alk-about-them...

I dont think there is anymore point in arguing this with you, you take an example make it out to be a huge issue when it isn't, that is hyperbole plain and simple, I have watch time and time again hyperbole be used to sway game changes for the worse (see AoC).

So good luck with your elite rank 25 dungeon competitions, maybe you will get a trophy or something.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

the crafting economy is not hampered, by anything but itself, competition amongst crafters is the only thing bringing prices up or down, the NM gear didnt affect it at all(i heavily sell stuff on this market, in that specific range so i see it first hand)

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I dunno what kind of linkshells you guys have on besaid but NM gear drove rabanastre's economy for about 5 months.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

I dont think there is anymore point in arguing this with you, you take an example make it out to be a huge issue when it isn't, that is hyperbole plain and simple, I have watch time and time again hyperbole be used to sway game changes for the worse (see AoC).

So good luck with your elite rank 25 dungeon competitions, maybe you will get a trophy or something.

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The fact that you really think I'm doing this out of some snobby, elitist intention of unfairness means that you miss the point of my arguments entirely.

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Originally Posted by Richard

I dunno what kind of linkshells you guys have on besaid but NM gear drove rabanastre's economy for about 5 months.

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its not about the linkshells

its about crafters, and what we can and can not sell


people have been selling NM gear too, but i have yet to have seen a real affect on what ive been selling in relation to it

as i said, i sell TONS of mid 30 stuff, for some pretty rediculous prices, and they still sell as good today as they did the day after the NMs were added, and as good as they did months before then