Couples geting the shaft on duty roulette

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12-21-2013, 04:09 AM
Norondor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahavage

Using the word penalize would indicate some sort of reduction of tomes obtained since 2.1 by entering the duty finder with friends, but as that's not the case your point is moot.

the amount of tomes for playing without using DR has remained static (actually gone down 30=>40 in the case of AK)

thus the overall progress towards completing your weekly tome chores has decreased by 1/3 per completed dungeon if you are playing with friends, i.e. not using duty roulette

you tried to slam me and you goofed twice in a one-sentence post
12-21-2013, 04:14 AM
CyanDvai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

the amount of tomes for playing without using DR has remained static (actually gone down 30=>40 in the case of AK)

thus the overall progress towards completing your weekly tome chores has decreased by 1/3 per completed dungeon if you are playing with friends, i.e. not using duty roulette

you tried to slam me and you goofed twice in a one-sentence post

You get 50 with the new dungeons, so that more than makes up for the 10 tome decrease in AK, your point is still moot, you're not very good at this are you.
12-21-2013, 04:19 AM
Norondor

Quote:

Originally Posted by glen7187

But you haven't proved your point. Plenty of us are doing all the categories of the Duty Roulette. So where are you getting this "Nobody is doing this seriously" stuff from. Don't stress yourself out when you are trying to prove a point with data that doesn't exist.

Yeah, i really can't prove the point because i don't have data on DF times and if SE releases a bunch showing things have roundly gotten better i'll be eating humble pie -- but please think about this for like ten seconds. Players are matched to dungeon groups when a tank, a healer, and two dps who meet the item level requirement for the dungeon they have selected are found and connected to a common instance server, is this not right? I see you play bard: are you commonly hitting the queue button and finding a group instantly? Or do you have to wait for a tank or healer? What exactly about including a daily log-in bonus would cause there to be more people playing bottleneck roles?

If you're consistently getting faster queue times -- cool, i guess. But most likely that's at the expense of another player who used to commonly play with friends who were in bottleneck roles and now has to wait instead of you. In some dystopian AI-controlled future ruled by sheer utilitarianism, preventing people from playing with friends so that strangers queue faster seems like it's probably a good idea, except i pay for this game to play with people i know, like, and have history with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyanDvai

You get 50 with the new dungeons, so that more than makes up for the 10 tome decrease in AK, your point is still moot, you're not very good at this are you.

jfc

40->50 = 25% increase over previous tome income per average dungeon

300->450 = 50% increase in weekly tome income required to reach cap

i get that you're going for snappiness, but you can't just say "you're not very good at this" and that's the slam jam, you probably want to be able to at least do basic arithmetic first
12-21-2013, 04:23 AM
CianaIezuborn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

... and this in turn is based on the assumption that a random group in DF takes approximately twice as long to clear dungeons as a pre-formed group, which is most likely not the case, on average. In WP, as in your anecdote above, it totally can be that bad, 40m vs. ~20m -- but given that the duty finder bonus is larger than the bonus for actually clearing WP you'd have had to take a little more like an hour to make it an even amount of tomestones/hour.

I'll give you that if your runs with your friends are generally slow, then yes it's more efficient to run duty roulette over 5 or 6 days. Depending on how slow you are compared to the average DF group will determine just how much more efficient it is, with it being twice as efficient if it takes you as long to run in a preformed as the average DF group.

However, 4-5 random DF runs does not directly translate into 9-10 preformed runs when trying to figure out time spent to tomes gained otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

So you'd rather have played with your friends? We're totally on the same page here!

I'm not sure we are, because you seem to feel that this bonus is so large that you're obligated to leave your friends and join a solo queue. Considering the hassle and unpredictability of the solo queue, it's barely worth it for me to join when none of my friends are available. The bonus makes it just attractive enough that if I'm bored and no ones on, I might do it over working on crafting/gathering/alt. You'll never see me joining it when I have the option to run with friends instead.
12-21-2013, 04:42 AM
glen7187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

Yeah, i really can't prove the point because i don't have data on DF times and if SE releases a bunch showing things have roundly gotten better i'll be eating humble pie -- but please think about this for like ten seconds. Players are matched to dungeon groups when a tank, a healer, and two dps who meet the item level requirement for the dungeon they have selected are found and connected to a common instance server, is this not right? I see you play bard: are you commonly hitting the queue button and finding a group instantly? Or do you have to wait for a tank or healer? What exactly about including a daily log-in bonus would cause there to be more people playing bottleneck roles?

Yes I understand what you are saying. But the queues are queues. First in, First out. Imagine there's 3 lines, 1 is for all DPS, 1 for tanks, 1 for healers. As a DPS, since like everyone plays DPS, the DPS line is super long. In order for the DPS line to move, we have to have a tank and a healer correct? Tanks instant queue because for the most part, the tank line is practically empty all the time. The Duty Roulette is giving an incentive for people to queue solo, and a higher bonus for in-demand roles like, the tank. This means, if more people go for the incentive, then more tanks enter the tank line. That means, the other 2 lines (healer and DPS) will move faster because more tanks are coming to the tank line. This, in effect, speeds up the queue.

I also understand that other roles are also going to take the incentive and pack up the healer and dps line even more. This can make the queue times the same or even longer which is definitely possible. So yes, your queue times possibly will stay the same in end-game content if you use the Duty Roulette. But what is this proving? That more than one person deserves to enter the Duty Roulette as a group? That isn't the intent of the DR. It is meant as incentive for solo players to queue in the DF. That's all it is. And you can continue to argue about difference in efficiency but at the most, all you are losing is a single bonus per day (if you only DR high-level content). This is not a penalty, you just don't receive a bonus. If you are arguing because you want to get things faster, that's more of a personal issue. Who are you racing against? And the option is available to you, just not in the way you want. You'll have to accept that fact and just enjoy the game in other ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

If you're consistently getting faster queue times -- cool, i guess. But most likely that's at the expense of another player who used to commonly play with friends who were in bottleneck roles and now has to wait instead of you. In some dystopian AI-controlled future ruled by sheer utilitarianism, preventing people from playing with friends so that strangers queue faster seems like it's probably a good idea, except i pay for this game to play with people i know, like, and have history with.

Again you are making it seem like all of these things have been forced upon you when they haven't. Me getting faster queue times isn't at the EXPENSE of another person because that person has a CHOICE. If he/she wants to jump into the DR solo and make faster queue times for me, then great! If he/she wants to play with friends, he can do that too. He can't choose the DR but that's his choice. SE isn't PREVENTING you from playing with friends, they are giving you an INCENTIVE to play solo to help strangers. That's it! You want to help some solo people out? Cool, here's a bonus for your time. You don't want to help solo people? That's fine but this bonus is for the people helping the solo people so I can't give it to you.

That's all it is...
12-21-2013, 04:53 AM
Norondor

Quote:

Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

I'll give you that if your runs with your friends are generally slow, then yes it's more efficient to run duty roulette over 5 or 6 days. Depending on how slow you are compared to the average DF group will determine just how much more efficient it is, with it being twice as efficient if it takes you as long to run in a preformed as the average DF group.

However, 4-5 random DF runs does not directly translate into 9-10 preformed runs when trying to figure out time spent to tomes gained otherwise.

Yeah, this is true. It's hard for me to think about exactly how my "usual" groups stack up vs a random DR group, since half the time i'm just going with someone who doesn't want to queue alone so they have someone to commiserate with if the other players are bad, or whatever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CianaIezuborn

I'm not sure we are, because you seem to feel that this bonus is so large that you're obligated to leave your friends and join a solo queue. Considering the hassle and unpredictability of the solo queue, it's barely worth it for me to join when none of my friends are available. The bonus makes it just attractive enough that if I'm bored and no ones on, I might do it over working on crafting/gathering/alt. You'll never see me joining it when I have the option to run with friends instead.

I'll be honest and say that even if i don't feel obligated, i feel like i'm being incentivized to play without people i know, and even on its own that feels bad, especially when i really resent the weekly cap on tomes anyway. Combine that with the generally half-baked feel of much of 2.1 -- housing and the issues surrounding it, CT and the issues surrounding that, the recycled stuff/filler in the storyline expansion -- and it paints a pretty bad picture.
12-21-2013, 05:04 AM
Dale

Quote:

Originally Posted by Churchill

Maybe if you got a divorce it wouldn't be a problem.

lol

Ty for the laugh :)

But I support this thread. They should allow couples to use the duty roulette.

Another one of these weird and needlessly punishing decisions SE has made regarding the DF. A separate example was not allowing us to use our Chocobo Companion while in a queue. That needs to change as well. And sooner the better.
12-21-2013, 05:07 AM
Ehayte

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

it's not going to decrease wait times because the extra 40 myth tomes are not going to lure out the players

Disagree. It makes me do every day, as a tank, at high level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

if you break a four-person group up, the best you can say has happened is you've shuffled queue times around a little.

Dude, yes! It is going to move the quick queue times from your static group, distribute that speed equally to each person waiting in the DF! Glad we could reasonably agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

"doing dungeons at endgame without using roulette is inefficient."

Then you don't value playing with your friends enough to NOT use the DFR. And just because something is less efficient does not mean that it is not unusable, especially if the most efficient means is only available on a finite basis (i.e. once a day). So...in all likelihood you will still be doing dungeons with your buddies. I value playing with my friends, but so much to preclude myself from receiving this reward. You are confusing placing a value on something, and preferring it absolutely to everything else always.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

What kills me here is you conceded my point already -- that this system hurts normal players like you because you can't play with your friends as you admit you would prefer without being penalized....

That is correct. But, show me the data that says that it is a more common occurrence for someone to queue into a dungeon with their friends than solo. They obviously implemented this system for a reason, and that reason would be to alleviate very very long queue times for those not going in with a fully formed party. Whether or not it was a good idea is based on how much it helps those people vs. how AGONIZING it is for you to interact with people other than your static group.

If the pain of doing something with someone other than your friends is so great that you turn down 210 mythology tomes / week, then I can safely safe that in my opinion, you are acting quite irrationally.

Also - RE: high school economic, rising wave of applause, seriously reconsidering my view of the world: LOL - k.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

I'll be honest and say that even if i don't feel obligated, i feel like i'm being incentivized to play without people i know, and even on its own that feels bad, especially when i really resent the weekly cap on tomes anyway. Combine that with the generally half-baked feel of much of 2.1 -- housing and the issues surrounding it, CT and the issues surrounding that, the recycled stuff/filler in the storyline expansion -- and it paints a pretty bad picture.

LOL - you just don't like this game, buddy!
12-21-2013, 05:12 AM
CyanDvai

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norondor

i get that you're going for snappiness, but you can't just say "you're not very good at this" and that's the slam jam, you probably want to be able to at least do basic arithmetic first

Not really a "slam jam" you keep repeating the same flawed reasoning for why you're upset even though everyone here is pointing out that you are not being prevented from doing what you want. All that was introduced was more options for people that play solo. All of your ranting is nothing but QQ

You have lost nothing. You can still group with DF you do not have to do DR.

You can do DR once per day for a total of 490 - 630 Myth (70 low, 90 high) total doing anything from WP to Haukke Manor. Depending on the quality of your group it can take you any where from 15 to 90 minutes to complete it (total time spent between 1 hour 45 minutes to 7 hours 30 minutes) or you can do what you did prior to the patch.

Premake your group or most of your group. They made AK easier (reason for the decrease in tomes) and WP is still any where from 10 - 15 minute run (maybe 20 if you go slow). If you spam WP and AK (which both can be done in 15 or less) you will have to run it 15 times which runs you about 3 hours and 45 minutes. I've heard people clearing Haukke Manor in 15 to 20 minutes, and that gives you 50 tomes so you only have to run it 9 times with your investment being 2 hours and 15 minutes to 3 hours.

So, the "best scenario" time for DR may be lower, but given the fact that you're rolling in random it's a slim chance you'll get that every time. You will have to be very unlucky to get horrible parties every time, so even if you average it out your time invested in DR for cap may be around 4 - 5 hours or so which is still more time invested for weekly cap than forming your own party.

Yes, I can do basic math, so stop your QQ and play the game.

If you want me to show you on paper the break downs I'll be glad to do another post.

PS, this isn't even including what you get from doing BCoB or CT, just the basic dungeons.
12-21-2013, 05:16 AM
Fumamyena

So you separate for 2 hours while playing you can still enjoy the game, my wife and I do that all the time. Each of us enjoys different aspects of the game as well as playing together. As matter of fact running those solo will give each of you a few pointers on different play styles and it may actually be enjoyable. So why not try it instead of complaining about something that wasn't designed for static groups to begin with. I would also like to say that if a couple has a tank healer combo, you are not saving any time in the DR as you will virtually insta queue in any instance. The DR was really geared towards reducing wait times for the solo DPS's in the game.

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