Despite its flaws, i like this game a lot

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Originally Posted by AdaraaKatsumi

I find it interesting that the haters of this game have the most posts and yet still play the game and have not moved on to some other game. Hmmmmmm........

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I find it interesting that people actually defend the game to begin with. Anyone who complains is either a troll or a hater, unless they say it nicely.

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Originally Posted by Levian

They can't. I edited that post so many times to try and get the tone right I accidentally cutout logging in every once in a blue moon to test things out. Which is the camp I'm in. It's not fun enough to play daily, but I do log in to tinker with the grievances that are in my power to test. At the same time though, I'm not interacting with many people in the game thanks to the sporadic nature of my play regimen.

My point was, going by just the people you interact with in game, a good chunk of people's opinion are cut out. And yes, some things are ninja fixed, but I wasn't referencing small grievances like a glitched patch of the map. I was talking about larger ones such as putting in the market ward search function or the battle system changes...the things that couldn't just be dropped in a tiny unannounced update. Those are the deal breakers for a lot of people, whether they actively play or not.

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^^^ this

This is also my sentiment and i actually am in the camp that does not like the game as is, however i do not actively flame it. Instead i play every day so i know exactly what it is i dont and do like. I want to keep the good things, which are few, and would like the majority to change unfortunately. And as was said above, those who are still in game are not an accurate portrayal of what this game actually lost. Tailoring the fixes to those who currently play now is pointless as most of these people are happy with the direction already. 600,000 copies of this game were sold, only a couple thousand still play. This shows that we are indeed the vast minority. Also, this is rather black and white in a business sense, and thats all that really matters in the end. 600,000 people bought the game 570,000 people left the game.(estimated number of people that left)

Also having been on many mmo forums, FFXIV is the running joke of every other community out there, this is troublesome and needs to be fixed, so the sooner we can make people believers again the better. Preaching to the choir does nothing, recovering what was lost is priority.Also, shunning us 30k that still play(and i think i am being very generous with that number) to get back 570,000 that left is by far the wiser business decision. So in actuality SE can probably give a damn about us, we are testers to try and help them gain back the masses.

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Originally Posted by Anty

if they all would ... well <goodbye> to ffxiv. These people are to be convinced and they need to come back along with many others who purchased the game and left after the first month. They are here because just leaving won't help the game at all, if all these people left then it would be a guaranteed shut down. A game might not need 1 mio + subscribers to be a profit.
But 30.000 isnt enough and if it comes to expansions updates, etc. the stronger the playerbase, the more money there is for new stuff and content...
Calling everyone who complains a hater is most trollish as well, since that doesnt solve anything. And as long people complain they care and they are a target/future customer. Why do you think there is something like customer service?
If every business would be like : if you dont like it, just leave... instead of... what can we do to make you stay...
well that business would surely go to hell.

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excellently said, wish i said something like this in my post i just wrote haha

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Originally Posted by KaiKatzchen

But these people who tried it and don't like it so they don't play it... how can they give an accurate view on how the game should be fixed if they don't know whats going on inside the game? There are people on the forums saying they haven't played in months (sometimes 5+ months) and SE should fix 'X', 'Y' and 'Z'... then they find out "oh by the way this thread doesn't help because x and y have been fixed, z is being worked on now".

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I think you're making some pretty large assumptions there.

I continually check the Lodestone and these forums, keeping tabs on producer letters, patch notes, and the bits of gossip that make their way here with regard to the direction the game is taking and, moreover, WHEN.

When a patch that looks worthwhile comes out, I log into the game to see it. Sometimes, I get back into the groove of playing... for a few days, until all of the problems get to be too much again.

Just because I haven't really played in three months doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. I admit that I didn't bother to check the new targeting modes out. I read the description, laughed. I read the next patch's description, laughed some more. It still isn't what it should be, it still isn't the standard of every MMO I've seen, which is that one key (usually Tab) cycles through enemies, and another (often Ctrl+Tab) cycles through friendlies. Why is SE attempting to reinvent the wheel on this? Months later, they're still not coming up with anything that's even round.

Okay, so the targeting thing got a bit rant-y, but it's just one example of many where I don't actually have to log in to play to know it's still not fixed.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

excellently said, wish i said something like this in my post i just wrote haha

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well we wrote pretty much the same :) and i was also thinking the 30.000 were generous when i wrote it lol

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Originally Posted by Anty

if they all would ... well <goodbye> to ffxiv. These people are to be convinced and they need to come back along with many others who purchased the game and left after the first month. They are here because just leaving won't help the game at all, if all these people left then it would be a guaranteed shut down. A game might not need 1 mio + subscribers to be a profit.
But 30.000 isnt enough and if it comes to expansions updates, etc. the stronger the playerbase, the more money there is for new stuff and content...
Calling everyone who complains a hater is most trollish as well, since that doesnt solve anything. And as long people complain they care and they are a target/future customer. Why do you think there is something like customer service?
If every business would be like : if you dont like it, just leave... instead of... what can we do to make you stay...
well that business would surely go to hell.

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Haters are gonna hate, no matter what game it is. Sure this one has problems but I don't rant and rage about it as I know there is some progress being done to improve it. I just call out the haters that troll these boards as all they are doing is instigating hate and troubling trillions of electrons.

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Originally Posted by Levian

Uhm...Not tryin to pick on you or anything Mikita, but it's pretty obvious you're not going to find many people with a negative view of the game IN the game. The people in your shells are among the few that can tolerate or find enjoyment with the game in it's current state. Everyone else that's tried it and didn't like it aren't playing or posting lodestone blogs. In game is only one half of the coin, to find the otherside you have to look elsewhere.

You'll find a better cross section of everyone's views on the forums, because most people who tried it and didn't like it aren't going to bother playing. But that doesn't mean these people wanted the game to fail, I think that most everyone that bought it wanted (and still want) it to succeed. So they poke around the forums, keep an eye on developement, and of course post their likes, dislikes, sugestions etc.

Even if you don't want to judge by the tone of the forums...this game was intended to be a subscription based game, and they aren't charging a subscription fee for it. The "happy" people really are in the minority and can't sustain the game, otherwise they would be charging for it and making a little money (or at break even) while they do their overhauling.

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I understand what you're saying.

The fact that they are keeping it free to play for now shows that SE acknowledges the deficiencies of the game. I think that all of us, happy or not, are hoping for further improvements to the game.

My main point is that the people who are currently enjoying the game despite its flaws are not usually active on these forums. Therefore the views expressed here are not a truly accurate gauge of what the entire player base wants -- rather, they are skewed towards the most vocal and disgruntled. What is distinctly missing are viewpoints on what SE did right with the game.

I am not saying SE should ignore people here. But just like you said about players in the game, this is only half of the coin.

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Originally Posted by AdaraaKatsumi

Haters are gonna hate, no matter what game it is. Sure this one has problems but I don't rant and rage about it as I know there is some progress being done to improve it. I just call out the haters that troll these boards as all they are doing is instigating hate and troubling trillions of electrons.

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There might be some professional trolls (some have really funny comments at least), but its not the majority.
Calling them trolls doesnt solve anything, ignoring is the best solution.
Still a lot of good complaints or a lot of great posts (the first month of the forum) were just called trollish, no matter how elaborate the thoughts about possible improvements were. Many people with great posts and ideas gave up already, which doesnt do any good to the game. Getting rid of some trolls (who sometimes have good suggestions as well but even if,... nobody cares since... troll right?) won't make it better. If a post is just trollish and doesnt help the game any bit just don't answer it. Problem solved. This leaves room for the few people caring and actually making suggestions about improvements instead of just praising what isnt yet to be praised.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

I understand what you're saying.

The fact that they are keeping it free to play for now shows that SE acknowledges the deficiencies of the game. I think that all of us, happy or not, are hoping for further improvements to the game.

My main point is that the people who are currently enjoying the game despite its flaws are not usually active on these forums. Therefore the views expressed here are not a truly accurate gauge of what the entire player base wants -- rather, they are skewed towards the most vocal and disgruntled. What is distinctly missing are viewpoints on what SE did right with the game.

I am not saying SE should ignore people here. But just like you said about players in the game, this is only half of the coin.

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The problem with the lack of positive feedback is that the positives are so few in number, and even those are debated on whether or not people like them or not. Off the top of my head i cant think of anything that people would unanimously agree that they like in this game, while i can think of some glaring things we all dislike. Both the positives and the negatives are subjective and depend entirely on what people think, thus it is only natural that the over all tone of the community is subjectively negative being that they are the majority. So many people left for so many reasons that even a positive brought up by someone that actively plays can be hated by 5 that do not.

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Originally Posted by Anty

There might be some professional trolls (some have really funny comments at least), but its not the majority.
Calling them trolls doesnt solve anything, ignoring is the best solution.
Still a lot of good complaints or a lot of great posts (the first month of the forum) were just called trollish, no matter how elaborate the thoughts about possible improvements were. Many people with great posts and ideas gave up already, which doesnt do any good to the game. Getting rid of some trolls (who sometimes have good suggestions as well but even if,... nobody cares since... troll right?) won't make it better. If a post is just trollish and doesnt help the game any bit just don't answer it. Problem solved. This leaves room for the few people caring and actually making suggestions about improvements instead of just praising what isnt yet to be praised.

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The thing that sucks about these pro-trolls with good ideas is that they don't use the Dev tags as intended. If they want the game improved, they should provide it with the proper tools that were given so that the devs can go from there and worded right to make it a suggestion and not a whine. If it is just a whine thread, then of course it is just going to get ripped and given low priority, if any, by the devs.