PLD Negotiation (Vs WAR)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why do you all put aside the fact that WAR is supposed to heal itself ? And besides, with the next update, it will mitigate some damage too, with average cooldowns shorter than PLD.

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So I guess he finally concedes the point? Though he still won't just say he was wrong and apologize to Leiron. :p

People don't bring in self healing because PLD has a better answer to all said CDs. It isn't a factor in what was being discussed. You are right that Warrior will get a buff in 2.1 and be on par with PLD though. Trololol

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why do you all put aside the fact that WAR is supposed to heal itself ? And besides, with the next update, it will mitigate some damage too, with average cooldowns shorter than PLD.

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Mostly becaus ein said scenario, it can happen within 2.5 seconds. IE No time to react, and get your heal off. A tank who got sniped to 80 HP will still live long enough to receive the heal, which will be useless on a dead tank.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Why do you all put aside the fact that WAR is supposed to heal itself ? And besides, with the next update, it will mitigate some damage too, with average cooldowns shorter than PLD.

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WARs main ability to heal itself is inner beast. The heal portion of inner beast is getting heavily nerfed. After the change, it will be healing somewhere between 3-500 per hit depending on gear (maybe more if you waste damage buffs trying to buff it). Now, on the whole it's a good trade off in my mind, but it makes the WAR much less effective at healing himself. After the change, you might as well say the PLD is supposed to be healing himself with Cure, because that will be only slightly less effective.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

If a Paladin and a Warrior have the same base HP, same defense relevant stats and are using Shield Oath and Defiance, anything* that kills a Warrior will also kill a Paladin.

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They pretty much have the same eHP - the biggest variable for Warrior vs. Paladin is WAR gets to heal itself every so often; has a slightly lower DR for Sentinel vs Vengeance;equal DR if WAR times it right for Rampart vs Inner Beast & HP returns compensate for Vengeance/Sentinel imbalance? (intentional offset for HP returns??) then you'd have Thrill of Battle + Holmgag vs Hallowed Ground, higher enmity on the base of Defiance to compensate for tri/bi rotation on WAR and healing enmity generation; yardle fardle it's very balanced overall eHP is essentially the same.

So yeah I'll gut my post - WAR/PLD baseline are within 1% WAR can't be one-shotted unless PLD is one-shotted; that changes as the gap can grow over duration of battle but it'd be rare (? Maybe) - from a healing and healing enmity gen standpoint I think PLD has "ease-of-use" stamped all over.

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Originally Posted by AppleGrocer

Usually I don't agree with callous remarks like Leiron's, but yeah. Your wrong Reyhart.

Look over the math posted above again.

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You know, its really unintentional most of the time.
Whenever I speak, I sound a lot calmer and nicer =(

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Originally Posted by Traek

So I guess he finally concedes the point? Though he still won't just say he was wrong and apologize to Leiron. :p
People don't bring in self healing because PLD has a better answer to all said CDs. It isn't a factor in what was being discussed. You are right that Warrior will get a buff in 2.1 and be on par with PLD though. Trololol

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Since VoxInaBox's concern was "the class with the highest hp also have the same or near the same damage mitigation as the PLD", it is being discussed.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

WARs main ability to heal itself is inner beast. The heal portion of inner beast is getting heavily nerfed. After the change, it will be healing somewhere between 3-500 per hit depending on gear (maybe more if you waste damage buffs trying to buff it). Now, on the whole it's a good trade off in my mind, but it makes the WAR much less effective at healing himself. After the change, you might as well say the PLD is supposed to be healing himself with Cure, because that will be only slightly less effective.

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It makes the self haling less effective, but still TP-based and an additionnal effect on DPS, so far more useful than Cure. And it won't make you lose the healing buff of Defiance. And it will reduce damage taken.
In a fight like Titan, WAR will be able to lauch Inner Beast on pratically every Moutain Buster.

It's sad that we'll basically have two damage mitigation tank.

Wll, technically no matter the spec its a mitigation spec, but the way it mitigates can be done differently.

RIFT: Every time the rogue teleports, a shield is created that absorbs 10% of incoming damage on up to X amount of damage taken.

Warrior: Void knight takes 10% less damage.

Dark knight: While the DK is under this effect, 10% of all damage taken is absorbed as health.

Same mitigation, just done differently.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Same mitigation, just done differently.

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Actually not. The Dark Knight would have to survive the full 100%, THEN get his 10% back, whereas the other two only have to survive 90% of the damage. Unless of course it just flavour text and the DK is only taking 90% of the damage anyway.

If you're going to be a Soak Tank, then you need to have a healing received bonus or lots of self heals, *and* (this is important) lots more effective health than a mitigation tank.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

It's sad that we'll basically have two damage mitigation tank.

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Tell me how you would make it so that Warrior's skills would scale with harder content without;

A) Increasing self heal amount to trivialize 4 man content
B) Making use of Wrath stacks