3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by Bloodb

Can Feast-solo queue please be changed so you are never queued against someone on your server.

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I'm not really sure what you're specifically getting at here, since you're doing a pretty fantastic job of skirting around it, but ... queue times...

I don't have a terribly active server/world as it is (at least, not that I've noticed), but that doesn't mean that I want to remove an entire world worth of queues out of my queue line. Illicit activities or otherwise, I still want to at least get into matches. If anything, I would prefer if they merged a few data centres together to increase the number of players, not reduce them. Most of the time I don't even pay attention (gotta catch that queue train), but sometimes it's fun to see a fellow Diabolos member in the end-results. It's nice to know that there are other people in my world that queue for PvP.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

But I like queuing as Dark Knight and ruining everyones day...

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I like seeing Drk's on the enemy team too. It means I don't have to baby sit my healer as much, and I might actually get some use out of Tempered Will if they happen to smack me with a Tar Pit.

Jokes aside, I don't actually mind seeing a Drk on the enemy team. It doesn't feel like they pressure my healer as much as a War does, but it also doesn't feel like they're miles behind, either; so, I mostly treat them the same way. I just keep an eye on them and smack em with a shield if they look like they're becoming more trouble than they're worth. As they are now, they're definitely lacking, but I think SE has to be very delicate when they consider what to do with the job as they move forward so not to go overboard.

I'd say Dark Knight is fine as it is, honestly... Paladin and Warrior have holding potential, Dark Knight has chasing potential... Plunge, Unmend, Dark Passenger, Carnal Chill, they all make Dark Knights much more powerful than the alternatives when hunting someone down... Holding people is arguably better, you're team can focus them down as well, but Stun resist and Purify are things...

The biggest problem would seem to be that people suck at Dark Knight... Like I've said... Somewhere... MP management seems to be the biggest issue, although watching a few... Jesus Christ, some of you Dark Knights are really bad... Like, really bad... Why are you using Abyssal Drain and Unleash? I just... Well, can't imagine these people would be good at any Job... Beyond the really bad ones though, like I've said before, MP management is the main issue... Fail that, and your damage takes a nose dive... Grit could perhaps use some adjustment as well, given how easily it is for Paladin and Warrior to switch to defensive stances, while Dark Knight loses a lot of MP for Grit, both in switching it on and in losing Blood Weapon...

Something as simple as having Manadraw would actually go a long way I think... I'd like to think I'm reasonably good with Dark Knight, given it's the only thing I Feast as, but MP still runs out all the same... Blood Price isn't particularly good in PvP, and Blood Weapon is less effective given how mobile fights are, Dark Knights MP recovery in PvP is lacking compared to PvE, and our MP drain is arguably greater in PvP given how burst heavy PvP is...

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Originally Posted by Februs

I'm not really sure what you're specifically getting at here, since you're doing a pretty fantastic job of skirting around it, but ... queue times...
I don't have a terribly active server/world as it is (at least, not that I've noticed), but that doesn't mean that I want to remove an entire world worth of queues out of my queue line. Illicit activities or otherwise, I still want to at least get into matches. If anything, I would prefer if they merged a few data centres together to increase the number of players, not reduce them. Most of the time I don't even pay attention (gotta catch that queue train), but sometimes it's fun to see a fellow Diabolos member in the end-results. It's nice to know that there are other people in my world that queue for PvP.

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Can you get banned or reported for throwing matches on purpose? How hard would it be to detect someone doing this?.. Even subtlety


Hypothetically, I wish that the option of say 175 people in the same free company all decide to want to play feast - solo, maybe even at 6am

Even if this would increase queue times, i hope it's something that can be addressed to retain the feasts incorruptibility. Maybe this can happen if groups of 2 data centers were merged together. Then maybe changed the top ranking to be top 150, top 15, top 3 for rewards.



Edit: After calming down I hope the best of people, but deep down suspect foul play. Voice chat would even bypass any evidence of cordination. It's like triple-triad tournament 2.0 but a much longer tournament. Good for them, this is good practice to try not to let what others do bother you personally. :/

You wrote alot here and while I agree with several of your points there are some I don't agree with so I'll just focus on those in the interest of trying to keep this short. I'll admit however to being over dramatic in saying DRG is the worst melee of the bunch. While it is noticeably inferior to Monk (as is NIN), it probably is slightly better than NIN or at the very least on the same level so I'll agree with your ranking.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

MNK/NIN mobility verse every other Job's mobility is barely noticeable when it matters, what is it 10%? Simply Sprinting (no cost) puts everyone on the same pace. The additional movement speed is one of the few one-ups NIN has over DRG, which is barely anything if you are trying to catch-up. Which is not really an issue with numerous gap closers/weapon throw/sprint/cc/etc. In the escape options, yes its a plus, but that is about the only avenue NIN has over both MNK/DRG.

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Ordinarily I would whole-heartedly agree with you on this. However, I am not sure of the prevalent ranged dps over there on Aether, but over here MCH is by far the most common ranged dps you will encounter in feast. This job specifically is the job that really exposes Dragoons lack of mobility (relatively speaking compared to mnk/nin of course) as it is the only dps in the game currently with a knockback running on a 30 second cooldown. As a dragoon its much more difficult to keep up with a mch because of this as unlike mnk/nin dragoons do not have the benefit of a 30 sec gap closer nor the enhanced movement speed to eventually run them down again. Not saying its impossible, just saying it is indeed very noticeable in this scenario.

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Originally Posted by Nakanishi

MNK is superior when it comes to defense and defensive utility, hands down. NIN's Shadeshift is also fairly powerful, although it only works against Physical Attacks. MNK/DRG have Bloodbath, which is exceptionally powerful to help heal themselves if they are getting bursted while they are bursting, in which Life Surge also has additional healing. Bloodbath/Life Surge + Enhanced Keen Flurry vs Shade Shift puts DRG/NIN pretty even in the defense department

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Bloodbath and Life Surge while indeed useful and powerful, still requires you to be actively engaged and attacking someone to even have any effect unlike fists of earth/shade walker. As such it suffers from the drawback of being rendered useless if the opposition is coordinating CC on you while bursting you (stuns, knockbacks, blind, etc). Keen flurry also requires you to be facing your target i believe in order to even be able to parry so its nowhere near as useful imo as shadeshift nor fists of earth in dmg mitigation as its not as consistent as the aforementioned abilities. Dragoon definitely has the worst tool kit among the three melee in surviving bursts because of these reasons.

Atm the only real edge DRG has over the other 2 melees is their burst which when all cooldowns are available is the strongest of the three. However their burst has a longer cooldown than monk so I wouldn't necessarily say monks burst is worse anyway. Battle litany of course is also awesome and feint is nice but it ended up getting nerfed because of mch/brd.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Grit could perhaps use some adjustment as well, given how easily it is for Paladin and Warrior to switch to defensive stances,

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Disagree on WAR being easy, WAR def stance increases are Max HP and heals received, meaning it is depend on also having the healer heal you. Compared to a Pally which is a mitigation. Mitigation is much better, which is also what the dark kit offers. We also need to be in tank stance to use 2 of our top 3 defensive cooldowns, the other tanks do not have this issue.

WAR only does well in feast as every 90 secs it get melee level burst, after that it's kit is very limited.

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

Disagree on WAR being easy, WAR def stance increases are Max HP and heals received, meaning it is depend on also having the healer heal you. Compared to a Pally which is a mitigation. Mitigation is much better, which is also what the dark kit offers. We also need to be in tank stance to use 2 of our top 3 defensive cooldowns, the other tanks do not have this issue.

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Warrior can switch easily was my point. As a Dark Knight, if I switch Grit on I can wave goodbye to my MP, and probably Dark Arts with it... Warrior can just switch to Defiance and pop Equilibrium, if I've been pushing damage there is a good chance I can't even switch Grit on... If I can, I can forget about doing any significant damage for the rest of the match, while Warrior can easily just switch to Deliverance, keep their stacks, and throw out damage before switching back to Defiance... Paladins Oaths cost MP as well IIRC, but Paladins MP use is infrequent at best, while MP is central to Dark Knights role...

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

WAR only does well in feast as every 90 secs it get melee level burst, after that it's kit is very limited.

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I wouldn't call the rest of Warriors kit limited... Storm's Eye and Storm's Path, Holmgang, Thrill of War, Mythril Tempest... I've got Carnal Chill... Maybe Delirium, but that's no Storm's Path... It's a rare sight to see Reprisal triggered and be in a position where I can actually use it properly... Blind on Dark Arts Dark Passenger is nice, more so when I'm the focus and stacked with Dark Arts Dark Dance, but that just takes me right back to that MP problem...

I don't usually like the idea of homogenizing Jobs, but now that I think about it, Dark Knight could do with a Thrill of War/Clemency equivalent at this point... Let me sacrifice my own HP to restore that of a party members or something... Other than MP concerns, I'd say that would "fix" the Job... It provides a solid piece of utility for Dark Knight, with a payoff (sacrificing HP) that can afford it something extra (probably a short cooldown, based on the rest of our cooldowns), while also having some nice synergy with Dark Knights other skills (specifically Tar Pit and Sole Survivor). Fits perfectly with what Yoshida said about Dark Knight previously, too;

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

These changes are intended to make dark knight function as a tank that can protect himself and his allies through debuffs and health absorption.

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We'd be protecting our allies with health absorption. I'm fine with having better chase/ranged potential in exchange for holding potential. I'm fine with Carnal Chills fairly weak (since it can be removed and does nothing to Limit Breaks) mitigation utility. Warrior has very weak mitigation, but I see that as payoff for its offensive capabilities. Where I see Dark Knight really lacking at this point is in healing party members, Paladin is amazing for that, and Warrior isn't bad. Dark Knight has nothing though... Could still maybe do with some more utility else where, but Manadraw/Dark Arts cost reduction and this would do the most for the Job IMO.

Although, having said that, I loath the idea of having to contemplate where to spend AP again... Even if they just give me Manadraw I'll be feeling conflicted with that... Can we get Rank 100 already?

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Originally Posted by AdamZ

WAR def stance increases are Max HP and heals received, meaning it is depend on also having the healer heal you. Compared to a Pally which is a mitigation.

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This only matters if you aren't topped at any point. Once you have max hp in defiance, they are the same. Considering you had to switch to defiance, you should be getting majority of the heals anyway.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I'd say Dark Knight is fine as it is, honestly...

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I agree that Drk's Mp management is definitely one of it's biggest set backs at the moment. There's no denying that they lack utility when compared to War and Pld, but insufficient mana cripples them to the point of uselessness. Mana draw would go a long way for this. The only other thing I'd probably like to see is Tar Pit adjusted to a ground based AoE that has a Bind, rather than a heavy. Their party utility would be fantastic, and their chase potential would serve the team, rather than just themselves.

DRK sacrificing their HP to give it to others would be too dangerous lol. Carnal Chill should be an AOE around the DRK with the range of helios or something smaller for starters, atm it's too limited. Tar Pit binding instead of heavying sounds good too.