Male Viera as a playable character! show your support

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

It's not the color though, it's the symbolism behind it. Let's take a race which has been only shown to be dark skin and let's introduce them in XIV as light skin and blonde. The ONE race in all of the of FF franchise that was actually (mostly) dark skin haha. I just find it funny more than anything, the XIV devs are really interesting folk.

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Oh well, when you look at this from this side... I suppose. I don't think they had any bad intentions, though. I would say it's not SE developers, who are interesting, but Asians overall. It could not have such symbolism for them (as it doesn't have it for me, for example). And well... that's their creature, after all. They didn't change Fran skin, at least.

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The thing about male Viera only being hinted until December 2020 is sad though.

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That's sad, but it would be a miracle if we get them at all anyway.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

It's not the color though, it's the symbolism behind it. Let's take a race which has been only shown to be dark skin and let's introduce them in XIV as light skin and blonde. The ONE race in all of the of FF franchise that was actually (mostly) dark skin haha. I just find it funny more than anything, the XIV devs are really interesting folk.

The thing about male Viera only being hinted until December 2020 is sad though. Viera (female) were hinted at in patch 4.3 if I remember correctly when they were listed as one of the races residing in Dalmasca, so that was much earlier than male Viera which won't be really talked about until the story moves away from the First and into the Source again which that should be around 5.5. There will literally be nothing new to talk about regarding male Viera for almost 2 full years.

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Now people are implying that the devs are racist? Lord have mercy this thread. I think they went with Veena instead of Rava, because it's the first and the first is not the same. They aren't veena or rava.

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Originally Posted by Mugear_bahamut

You can say I'm a bit OCD that's why I have strong feelings toward equality. No one would ask for Lalafell, because: we have Lalafell.
I do not like the hidden agenda thinking so you can excempt me out of that one, though.

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By lalafell I meant a tiny race, though. Wanting a full race makes sense to me, but where I have my doubts are that many of the vocal players that claim this is about equality, representation, character variety etc. . . I have my doubts that those are the sole reasons, or even the primary reason. I just sort of wish people would be honest about why they want something. Like I am with you it annoys the hell out of me that I know two playable races are not complete even though I will not play them. I wish they went and released one full race since for me I do not like when companies release half finished products since I get a race is not like that but the idea that they might remain unfinished bothers me greatly not because lack of options but because the general idea of having those two empty spaces will just personally bothers me.

Also it irks me when people are fighting over options and wanting more of a certain character type or frame under the umbrella of more customization options, when those who like tiny freaky little potato races only have one option.

I have no issue with people making requests for things they want, I just wish people would frame it as such, and some in this thread have stated as much, I think those that are trying to bring in the LGBT aspect or the small group that said it was sexist choice was honestly confusing for me. Or how are arguing over a difference in aesthetic values, or taking things as a personal attack because their aesthetic values do not match.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

It's not the color though, it's the symbolism behind it. Let's take a race which has been only shown to be dark skin and let's introduce them in XIV as light skin and blonde. The ONE race in all of the of FF franchise that was actually (mostly) dark skin haha. I just find it funny more than anything, the XIV devs are really interesting folk.

The thing about male Viera only being hinted until December 2020 is sad though. Viera (female) were hinted at in patch 4.3 if I remember correctly when they were listed as one of the races residing in Dalmasca, so that was much earlier than male Viera which won't be really talked about until the story moves away from the First and into the Source again which that should be around 5.5. There will literally be nothing new to talk about regarding male Viera for almost 2 full years.

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I think they went for the pale skinned versions to kind of show of Veena? Even though some of them are very obviously Rava, those eyebrows say all. But not going to lie, did make me cock a brow when the Vii there weren't actually Rava - and those that were wasn't dark-skinned - especially since Veena are supposed to be in mountain ranges - It might be reverse for Vii? It did genuinely confuse me. I'm hoping that we do see the more dark skinned Rava. I'm not going to say they're racist or go as far to say they're whitewashing. But it did just have me cock a brow. I guess the argument could be that they're pale because they live in darkness due to the thickness of the canopy. Light does not filter through. But it was similar in FF12, so... eh... Anyway, that's the logical side of me is thinking. Though, eh, there's a slight tinge of disappointment that the strong Amazonian ladies that little me loved - and still love - were white there, but that's due to my own preference and history with the Viera in past games. There's certainly nothing wrong with them being white, just to be clear. Again, it's not that deep for me - I'm not calling anyone racist. Just my thoughts on it. I'm more than happy to follow my logical side.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Now people are implying that the devs are racist? Lord have mercy this thread. I think they went with Veena instead of Rava, because it's the first and the first is not the same. They aren't veena or rava.

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Thats just not true? He just said that he thinks viis should have more skin colors? Seriously stop the hyperbole, no one's attacking the devs.
Also, if u were a femenine man, masculine woman, or a person who si nto accepted by others, youd understand that point of view

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Thats just not true? He just said that he thinks viis should have more skin colors? Seriously stop the hyperbole, no one's attacking the devs.
Also, if u were a femenine man, masculine woman, or a person who si nto accepted by others, youd understand that point of view

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Go back and reread it, because that is obviously what I think is being implied.

Wait did you just imply that if I was a minority I would "understand" this 'victimhood' complex? God this thread.

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Originally Posted by Amnmaat

Note, Matsuno himself didn't draw that. When Matsuno got asked about male Viera he created a Highlander in a moogle suit

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I never said Matsuno drew it. I said he commissioned it which means to pay someone else to do it (or perhaps ask since it seems they could be close?).

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Now people are implying that the devs are racist? Lord have mercy this thread. I think they went with Veena instead of Rava, because it's the first and the first is not the same. They aren't veena or rava.

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Why do you care so much about male Viera height?

I also am in the camp of wanting tall male Viera because I really don't want to play short males personally. But people talking about it isn't going to hurt or change anything? Just let people discuss it because it doesn't matter what anyone says either which way, if the devs are going to add them they'll add them as they see fit.

Also, all your arguments fall apart because female Au Ra look completely out of place against their male counter parts and in regards to the Xaela half of their lore. But I suppose only females can break the mold. As long as it's cute and you like it, right?

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Originally Posted by zeylos

Yeah nah, if they didnt add things for diversitys sake we wouldnt have gotten any hrotgar at all. Male viera will look like male au ra/elezen with graceful animations, and thats nothing to do with some 'silly' political agenda (apparently, asking to be represented on a game is.... drum rollll... A political agenda!) but female hrotgar will, or at least should look fierce and beat-like and masculine, like the males, and thats nto for a 'political agenda' its because thats literally the whole point of that race

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I have no idea what the point of your response was. Hrothgar males were added in order to capitalise on a look that does not exist in the game, in the hopes that this will capture subscribers displeased with certain other MMOs. It was not done purely for the sake of adding "diversity".

On the other hand, asking for male Viera to be a couple of inches shorter than female Viera... or a whole lot... as opposed to exploiting a broader height scale, is an addition purely for "diversity's" sake, one which is fulfilling no specific niche existing races don't already occupy and one which is too minute to yield higher profitability. It is purely done because some people want the gender dimorphism to be reversed, primarily for ideological reasons, because the fantasy-driven reasons behind it resolve to "male rabbits are smaller", which merits a huge "So what?"

So "Yeah nah" right back atcha, bud.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

So if a woman is a leader they are masculine? I am trying to correct you since you have been going on and on about it for several posts, as if stating it as fact.

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I think Gwenorai's response to him went right over his head.

I'm not a fan of diversity for the sake of diversity and I think it's horrible that the development team are being accused of being racist and discriminatory. They're actually very inclusive in many ways. Let's not forget, however, that this is a Japanese game at the end of the day - and as such, it isn't fair to expect it to bend over backwards to account for every little sensitivity that exists elsewhere.

As for the height situation? I don't care to see the men be shorter than the women just for the sake of it. There's nothing to imply as much and let's not beat around the bush - the people pushing for it just want it to happen because they happen to be playing short characters already. They don't care about male viera in particular. Give them enhanced sliders for the existing races and they'd soon abandon the race altogether.

It's also hilarious how often 'more options' translates into 'give me this obscure niche that I really want'. The very same people who insist that we 'need' more short options are the very shame individuals who bend over backwards to stamp out any attempt to bring forward more tall, masculine and well-built options. They insist that there's enough already - even though it has been pointed out many times that things like the lack of eyebrows for highlander men and the locking of horns to faces for raen and xaela are a major dealbreaker for some. Hrothgar and Roegadyn are considered to be too big by many, too.

So people figure that male viera can fulfill a niche of tall, handsome and well-built and they're described as exactly that by official representatives. I hit the post limit last night so couldn't respond to everybody so this is more of a general post at this point. I see the last few pages since have been as bizarre as ever, though.

What else...? Oh, right...politics.

When I stated that real world politics didn't need to be brought into a fantasy game I was specifically referring to niche, forced problems that are far more nuanced and complex than what some here are pretending. FFXIV - as with many titles in the franchise - handles political issues rather well. FFXII is my favourite in the series and that is very heavy on the subject of politics and war.

It goes to great lengths to show that there's good people on both sides of the conflicts explored within the setting.

The push for male viera for be small, feminine and submissive compared to the women isn't a case of 'politics' at all. Let's not pretend otherwise. It's a vocal minority trying to force obscure tastes onto a potential new race with no regard or respect for how they are presented in the official narrative. This coming after Yoshi-P had to make a statement saying, explicitly, that child-like characters would not be added due to moral and ethical reasons. Not that it stops a bunch of people pushing to get as close to 'child-like' as possible, then kicking up a fuss when it's pointed out that drastic sliders allow for such a thing to happen and as such it is exactly what they're pushing for even if they do not admit it.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I have no idea what the point of your response was. Hrothgar males were added in order to capitalise on a look that does not exist in the game, in the hopes that this will capture subscribers displeased with certain other MMOs. It was not done purely for the sake of adding "diversity".

On the other hand, asking for male Viera to be a couple of inches shorter than female Viera... or a whole lot... as opposed to exploiting a broader height scale, is an addition purely for "diversity's" sake, one which is fulfilling no specific niche existing races don't already and one which is too minute to yield higher profitability. It is purely done because some people want the gender dimorphism to be reversed, primarily for ideological reasons, because the fantasy-driven reasons behind it resolve to "male rabbits are smaller", which merits a huge "So what?"

So "Yeah nah" right back atcha, bud.



I think Gwenorai's response to him went right over his head.

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The point of my response is very simple. The devs didnt say that, they specifically said it was for diversity in practically all of their letters. Also, I dont want femenine male viera, If I had to choose, I'd get scaleless male au ra, slightly shorter with rabbit ears and animations that are graceful adn snobbish like the females