What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

What on earth about the wastelands of Australia are going to make people go, "Woah! I want to go there!" Like the skyscrapers of Insomnia or the towers of Ishgard invoked?

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A good looking surfer with a design similar to Snow Villiers complete with an Australian accent? ;)

I guess we could replace 'surfer' with 'blitzballer' to give it a more Final Fantasy feel.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

A good looking surfer with a design similar to Snow Villiers complete with an Australian accent? ;)

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Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy! Admittedly however, I would be more willing to welcome the advances of an athletic man with more masculine tendencies than I would be of someone like G'raha Tia and his kindergarten schoolgirl haircut. Be sure to include the likes of characters similar to Vanille as well please, she and Snow were both my favorites in FFXIII.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I guarantee you that the majority of Final Fantasy players will gravitate more towards a game set in a European or Far Eastern region than they would an Australian, New World, or African one. Defy those tastes and let's see how far the Final Fantasy name brand will carry such a game, because goodness knows they'd never go near it without it.

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Actually, I don't think most FFXIV players are as obsessed with locales as you are--and I say that as someone that likes locales very much. Locales are something most players accept passively. They just want it to look cool, and their range of cool isn't as limited as yours is. No one in chat for the LL watched the trailer and said, "a jungle dungeon?? Wow, cancelling my sub right now."

Again, you've already put forth your ideal vision for 7.0. It's not a 300 page thread full of wonder and excitement as you would expect if you truly have the pulse of what the fanbase wants as much as you claim. It seems more to me like your raging about "safaris" and "jungles" and "tumblr" are less about objective fact and more about your fears that the fanbase doesn't actually agree with you at all--and are more diverse than you'd like. A worry that the opinions of others count just as much in the eyes of the devs as yours.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Am I seriously supposed to get hyped for a giant rock in the middle of nowhere?

https://www.destinsparks.com/wp-cont...hotography.jpg

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Now it's just sad that you would see scenery like that and think it has no place in the game. Your desperation to pretend natural beauty has only one form grows more and more pathetic the more you post about it.

At this point, they seem to be moving from the "liberation" plots to this "conflict of values" (whatever that means.) Depending on what that is, it could be good or bad. I just hope they keep any preaching - particularly from Alphinaud - to a bare minimum and that if they can't handle any "regime change" style plots with the sort of nuance they introduced to Bozja (regardless of how well that scenario executed it in practice), to refrain from it and stick to nasty creatures jumping out of shady portals or something, because the last thing I want is to see a repeat of EW, where my character is railroaded into particular responses. Yoshi has conveyed in interviews before that he understands that morality is quite complex and nuanced as a subject, so I hope that carries over into the next part of the story better than it did in EW.

As for the LL, the Twelve stuff could be interesting; seems like it covers Rhalgr, Byregot, Azeyma and Nald'thal. Also seems like the big tower in Garlemald will feature in some way, alongside Fourchenault, and that they're delving into the topic of the Reflections (to which I wonder if that scene with the cultist types, who look like the Lambs of Dalamud, has some bearing - the robes are definitely not typical Ascian robes in design at least.) Nothing overly exciting so we'll see what the 12th brings... besides the Twelve. :`)

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

Actually, I don't think most FFXIV players are as obsessed with locales as you are--and I say that as someone that likes locales very much. Locales are something most players accept passively. They just want it to look cool, and their range of cool isn't as limited as yours is. No one in chat for the LL watched the trailer and said, "a jungle dungeon?? Wow, cancelling my sub right now."

Again, you've already put forth your ideal vision for 7.0. It's not a 300 page thread full of wonder and excitement as you would expect if you truly have the pulse of what the fanbase wants as much as you claim. It seems more to me like your raging about "safaris" and "jungles" and "tumblr" are less about objective fact and more about your fears that the fanbase doesn't actually agree with you at all--and are more diverse than you'd like. A worry that the opinions of others count just as much in the eyes of the devs as yours.

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Can't say I'm particularly worried considering the fact that Creative Business Unit III is quite literally making the next mainline FF game tailored around my tastes. Seems my "vision" will be realized there as what will probably be the best mainline FF experience since the days of FFXII.

You are also mistaking a level vs an entire geographic area. No one minds if a level or dungeon deviates from the norm. What I mind and take great issue with is having my time wasted like the 3 zones of Gyr Abania and I do not want a repeat of that situation, not with how many of my favourite elements have been stripped from the plot and how bland the remaining characters are.

Additional edit because I'm not in the mood to waste one of my daily posts specifically for your later comment on this page = An empire with complex characters like Varis etc will always be more interesting than plushie Scions doing nothing in the middle of nowhere. The fluff and beach-episode locations belong on twitter for role players to comission fanart of, not for it to take up valuable screentime.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

images

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I see a generic tropical beach, a mansion someone made the decision to paint yellow for some reason, and a place full of fog that I cannot tell whether I am looking at Australia or some misty part of the UK.

If this is all you can bring out to market your Australia expansion you will have to do a better job to get me interested. Your rock and beach are not going to win against this when it comes to Final Fantasy fans. And that is why this is being made into a full-fledged Final Fantasy game and not whatever it is you're jumping through hoops to justify:

https://cdn-www.gamerevolution.com/a...ame-castle.jpg

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy! Admittedly however, I would be more willing to welcome the advances of an athletic man with more masculine tendencies than I would be of someone like G'raha Tia and his kindergarten schoolgirl haircut. Be sure to include the likes of characters similar to Vanille as well please, she and Snow were both my favorites in FFXIII.

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Yeah, I'd like more conventionally attractive male characters to interact with as well. For as much as some like to pretend as if JRPG's default to mostly androgynous looking men, I disagree since they're usually balanced out by the presence of a bunch of classically handsome and ruggedly handsome guys.

Thancred and Estinien are decent but I'd like someone designed along the lines of Hien as a permanent addition to the main cast and not just hidden away in side quests.

I'm glad that the character models are getting a new coat of paint. If they manage to fix the Highlander models and allow me to finally play a conventionally attractive male character who is muscular and tall then I'll be very happy.

There's always been something 'off' to me about many of the design decisions for the likes of G'raha. His voice doesn't match his features or mannerisms at all.

If you're so excited about FFXVI and confident that the devs share your taste and vision, why are you so scared that FFXIV is moving in a direction you don't like? Maybe Garlemald 2.0: Even More Fascist will be right up your alley! It's not like you have any information about 7.0 at this point, so all this theater about how they better consult you on their design documents is just that. Theater.

It's me. I will happily take up the mantle of being part of the masses of very scary "twitter/tumblr fandom" that threatens to take away aveyond-dream's precious castles and their conviction that they can definitively speak for the Final Fantasy fandom, forever. I mean, I love Zenos, I occasionally go to Twitter, and I would be more than happy to explore an Australia or Africa-themed expansion. Truly I qualify as the stuff of nightmares.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Careful now, that probably is not inspired enough by "indigenous representation" and could cause yet another FFXIV social media controversy!

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Goodness, you are upset about that one piece of criticism of your extremely long 7.0 fanfiction, aren't you?

I thought Eureka was supposed to be Australia. Especially the part about giant creatures trying to kill you.

All this talk and still no one championing the cause of the Africa/New World expansion can be bothered to come up with a concept that provides any entertainment of substance for those of us outside the fanclubs of Zenos and G'raha Tia.

You don't want churches, don't want monarchies, knights, empires, magitek, what on earth do you want then? A picnic on top of the rock I found on google? My expansion concept may have had its flaws but at least I could string together a plot with a beginning, middle, and end.

Friend, this continued belief that any of us give a flip about convincing you or "providing entertainment of substance" to appeal to you, despite us telling you multiple times that we do not care about what you like or what games you play, is about the same amount of wishful thinking delusion as "I am the definitive voice of the Final Fantasy fandom."

Your tastes are your tastes. That's fine. It has nothing to do with anyone else, and no one can change them. And furthermore, you're perfectly free to express "I really like European castle aesthetics and I hope we get to see more of them in the game." However, the increasingly aggressive and angry ranting that anyone who would be okay with Australia or anywhere else are "those" players whose money and interests don't or shouldn't count, unlike you, the One True Representative of the fandom's interests, is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I see a generic tropical beach, a mansion someone made the decision to paint yellow for some reason, and a place full of fog that I cannot tell whether I am looking at Australia or some misty part of the UK.

If this is all you can bring out to market your Australia expansion you will have to do a better job to get me interested. Your rock and beach are not going to win against this when it comes to Final Fantasy fans. And that is why this is being made into a full-fledged Final Fantasy game and not whatever it is you're jumping through hoops to justify:

https://cdn-www.gamerevolution.com/a...ame-castle.jpg

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Nice goalposts moving. You said you wanted to know why gamers would look at Australian locales and wish they could go there, using a big rock which exists in real Aus.

Then, I showed you very picturesque beaches and popular locales which, in also exist in real Aus and Oceania as examples that...yes, there are places which people actually like to go see.

So then, you move the goalposts by showing a fantasy mountain with a castle which does not exist in real life. If you were being honest, you should have shown a picture of just that big gray rock and nothing built on it.

But, if you want proof of concept ideas for a fantasy Australia/Oceania using similar locales that I showed, here you are:

https://i.quotev.com/img/q/u/19/10/23/ym6u6jtbz2.jpg

https://imgix.bustle.com/uploads/ima...p=faces&fm=jpg

You know Rivendell, from Lord of the Rings films? Yeah. Its locale was based on, and filmed in, New Zealand.

I mean, hell, if you think tropical beaches and whatnot can't make for beautiful castles and towering landmarks, I have to assume you've never been to Eulmore or Limsa Lominsa.

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

The devs are the ones that convince us that a story will be of interest and the locales those stories take place in are worth visiting--and I don't have the time or inclination to join in on your LARPing as an FFXIV dev. The only thing anyone has said to you is that an African and Australian-themed expac has a lot of potential, not that it will automatically be a good expac because of where it takes place.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

continued words

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Thank you for using a film set whose appearance is entirely based on medieval Europe. You've just defeated your own argument. As far as I'm concerned my conversation with you is over and I've won. For the sake of keeping the thread on topic you have since been added to my ignore list, ending this tangent here and now.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

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Agreed, still it was admittedly fun getting them to end up where they did with that last post, but anyway. At the moment I still can't feel like I can look back on Endwalker and take the later parts of my adventure seriously. The farewell and sendoff we gave the scions at the end would have been the perfect moment for them to retire.

If after such a pivotal expansion like Endwalker our main party members are still propped up alone by their actions from far too many years ago, what reason do I have to believe that something will happen to make them evolve in the coming patches? With how limited patch MSQ is, I struggle to believe we will see any upgrades to their otherwise stagnant selves, if not suffer more downgrades in the name of fanservice:

https://s1.zerochan.net/G%27raha.Tia.600.2597951.jpg

Does anyone else remember this guy? You know, the cool sage who could actually be taken seriously as a character? Or the days when our antagonists connected with us on levels far deeper than nebulous throwaway concepts like "ohh hope vs despair struggle" with a party that fundamentally appears unaffected by any strife or despair.

Moving into these patches it doesn't seem like we will be dealing with any one clear antagonist for the time being, but then I reread one of Lauront's earlier comments and recognized the mages in the trailer as the lambs of Dalamud, a cult from so early in ARR that I had completely forgotten about at this point. I don't know much of their faith, but I remember the voidsent they called forth. The next major antagonists being associated with the void is something I am 100% for, and I believe there is great opportunity for future antagonsist along the lines of Cylva to shine.

Like Emet-Selch, I imagine they would want to find a way to restore the world they lost. But if voidsent are perpetually aether starved, could their society not be almost "vampiric" with more humanoid-looking voidsent lying in wait in unexplored parts of the 13th? I apologize in advance for referencing WoW, but it does seem that the vampire faction along with its leader that they introduced in Shadowlands was well received among their playerbase, and I believe that a similar group of highly intelligent and cunning creatures would be an excellent choice for our major antagonists.

They could be monstrous on the inside, but still walk among people as human beings and provide that human connection we had with Emet-Selch, but rather than "bringing back our God and restoring our people," I imagine the conflict could lean more towards, "I will consume your people in order to save my own, and in so doing reclaim the humanity/paradise I had lost."

https://64.media.tumblr.com/6f0d45a8...9r2y9_1280.jpg

Alternatively, we could also have encounters with characters with motivations similar to Ardyn who lie closer to the heart of events on the 13th, what if at the cause of it all there was a betrayal so cruel as the one he suffered in FFXV? I cannot be the only one who finished that game feeling awful for the man, who was later revealed to have been a far more noble individual than the first king of Lucis. A well-put together revenge story like his would be a joy to experience again, bonus points if they don't end up transforming into a total monstrosity in the final battle in order to keep an emphasis on the fact that our enemy is a *Person* who hoped, dreamed, and lived. All in all, it would inject some much needed magic into the world that now finds itself lacking in wake of the demise of Hyadelyn and Zodiark.

Neither Ardyn nor Emet-Selch were created so blatantly as a vehicle to preach to us in the way Hermes was, that is the strength that lies in these characters being able to naturally impart their lessons onto people. Also, if your lead writers are already aware and thinking to themselves, "Hmm, this type of character will probably not resonate with people because the message associated with him is being delivered in too blunt of a way, despite my personal affection towards him," possibly, just possibly listen. I too would be shocked if my boss told me I had to somehow manage to justify the convoluted later portions of Endwalker, I cannot imagine the stress that she must have experienced knowing being forced to add in time travel and memory wiping devices would make for a pretty unstable foundation.

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Originally Posted by tokinokanatae

The devs are the ones that convince us that a story will be of interest and the locales those stories take place in are worth visiting--and I don't have the time or inclination to join in on your LARPing as an FFXIV dev. The only thing anyone has said to you is that an African and Australian-themed expac has a lot of potential, not that it will automatically be a good expac because of where it takes place.

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Tbf, they haven’t done very well in that regard lately. What with them destroying an entire huge city that was built up for multiple expansions.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Perhaps a separate thread for discussion of potential future locales would be beneficial? I think things are moving too far from this thread's core premise - which is specifically about the way in which Endwalker's story was handled.

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Hard agree.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Thank you for using a film set whose appearance is entirely based on medieval Europe. You've just defeated your own argument. As far as I'm concerned my conversation with you is over and I've won. I imagine the European settlers of New Zealand likely built structures there similar to what they had in their own home countries.

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No, see, here's the problem. You think that castles and stone masonry architecture are somehow unique to Europe. The entire ridiculousness of your argument is based on the fallacy that Square Enix can't or won't build a castle in some Australian or African locale. You also make the hilariously false assumption that places like, say, Africa or the Polynesian areas never had castles. Which, in fact, they did.

https://www.fodors.com/wp-content/up..._1-768x512.jpg

https://www.ancient-origins.net/site...sil-Ghebbi.jpg

There were also likely a lot more than these, but after centuries/millennia of neglect, most of them no longer stand.

The point remains that "Europe has castles therefore it's better" is an argument steeped in a massive load of both ignorance and nonsensical biases, especially for a fantasy franchise in which you can do THIS:

https://respawnfirst.com/wp-content/...an-696x392.jpg

EDIT for below:

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

This thread was a great discussion about the story, now it's just 2 rabbits complaining about locations.

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Like I said. I'm willing to stop at any time.

Aveyond just has to stop saying nonsense.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Well since a lot of his posts are direct replies to your own, maybe grow up and stop first so we can get back to the discussion at hand.

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I mean, nothing's stopping you guys from ignoring us and posting. So by all means, you can practice what you preach and "grow up first" now.

This thread was a great discussion about the story, now it's just 2 rabbits complaining about locations.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

See you all tomorrow, please prepare your Australia expansion concepts for then! Remember, you can't use any castles, knights, monarchies, gods, or churches. Good luck!

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Prison expansion, lol.

Actually, in all honesty Australia could quite comfortably be a "frontier" expansion. Like a slightly more exotic version of the American West. Though imo it would just make sense to combine the two into the "New World", with maybe a sort of triangular spectrum of Austronesia, Latin America, and Anglo America filling out the continent. If the devs approached the New World with the same level of specificity that they did "Europe" and "Asia", we could feasibly have several expansions' worth of content on the other side of the world, cover the entire 10 year story arc even: Polynesia, Mesoamerica, the Andes and Amazon basin, the Caribbean, the American steppes, the Arctic, etc. etc.

I'd like something similar with Meracydia and Africa as well eventually (Egypt, Maghreb, Ethiopia, Swahili Coast, Madagascar, Yoruba/Akan regions, etc. etc.), but given how underrepresented that tends to be in American and Japanese media, I think it would take a lot more work and care to pull off. That said, given the depth of research FF puts into other regions, I think if done well this is the sort of media that could provide much needed exposure and education of African cultures and mythologies.

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Originally Posted by CrownySuccubus

Like I said. I'm willing to stop at any time.

Aveyond just has to stop saying nonsense.

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Well since a lot of his posts are direct replies to your own, maybe grow up and stop first so we can get back to the discussion at hand.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Moving into these patches it doesn't seem like we will be dealing with any one clear antagonist for the time being, but then I reread one of Lauront's earlier comments and recognized the mages in the trailer as the lambs of Dalamud, a cult from so early in ARR that I had completely forgotten about at this point. I don't know much of their faith, but I remember the voidsent they called forth.

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Their faith was something along the lines of "Dalamud, our god, is about to bring about the apocalypse (Yeah...). The true believers (<that's us) will be saved, while the heretics will d- oops, there goes our god. Time to get revenge by killing all heretics!" So...yeah. Where could the story possibly go with these guys!? Somewhere predictable, I'm sure.

Even if their version of taking everyone with them in a blaze of glory involves the voidsent, it would still be just more of the same. Weren't we supposed to go back to adventuring?

Added the lore source on them here & here, but yes, basically what Misplaced_Marbles said.

Wouldn't it be ironic if obscure factions such as the Lambs of Dalamud end up getting a better send off than the game's actual long standing antagonists?

I haven't watched the LL but I am struggling to remember the Lambs of Dalamud at all. Vague memories of killing humans in robes when I was extremely low level...I assume that was them. Why go all the way back to such an obscure story offshoot from 2.0? I thought the objective behind ditching an expansion and rushing the story to this point was to clean the slate and leave all of this behind for the sake of the brand new start with their own original content?

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Originally Posted by PawPaw

I haven't watched the LL but I am struggling to remember the Lambs of Dalamud at all. Vague memories of killing humans in robes when I was extremely low level...I assume that was them. Why go all the way back to such an obscure story offshoot from 2.0? I thought the objective behind ditching an expansion and rushing the story to this point was to clean the slate and leave all of this behind for the sake of the brand new start with their own original content?

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They're the Dalamud-worshippers that had a headquarters in Northern Thanalan, with some FATEs revolving around them. I believe they make an appearance in one of the Amdapor (?) dungeons as well, and were involved with Voidsent. Funnily enough, we can even wear their cowl... which should be noted are blood red by default, but the ones in the trailer just look dark/black. Unless my eyes are deceiving me, anyway. Could just be generic cultist people for all we know and not necessarily the Lambs.

Yes, although now that I've looked them up, they had red robes. Still, the robes are rather uncharacteristic of Ascians, even in the lowest ranks.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I just want a proper conclusion to Garlemald's story. Knowing we were meant to get an entire expansion devoted to it - which would have likely put it well on the path of recovery - simply makes it all the more jarring to see it go from showing up in almost every teaser cutscene to becoming completely irrelevant.

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It appears Garlemald only appears in the role quest in 6.1 despite being in the most dire straights at the moment. Sharlyan may have to change some policies but is still whole. Thravnir suffered massive damage as well but it at least still has a leader and viable living conditions. Garlemald has been reduced to Rubble, its residence huddling in a subways (and it was hinted at that a large amount of citizens and soldiers were un tempered and are undergoing treatment after the tower of babel so they need a more viable living location soon) and it has no current leader or government that people can turn to.

You think this would be the prime concern for the WoL due to how they like helping those in need but the recent trailer just shows us helping personal colleges to shard hop and go on a treasure hunt because lol TrEaSuRe and AdVeNtUrE. So very personal stuff over helping people in need. Maybe I am wrong maybe the dungeon serves the same purpose as the one in 4.1 to get an ancient lost treasure to help the economy of those who have suffered the most in the final days and repair some of the damage, so namely Garlemald, Thravnir, and the at the moment unvisited Corvos. Maybe they were to busy trying to get 6.0 finished and used this patch cycle to tune old content from 2.0 and so the story is more filler. Maybe Garlemald will get a similar treatment to Doma in SB where it gets a hub that is repaired over the expansion like the Doman Enclave and story arch that lasts at least 2 patches, which it is at least owed after losing an entire expansion. But still this lack of focus after I now know that a Garlean Expansion was sacrificed to rush the finale is only going to make me be more critical of the lack of content focused on Garlemald, only having 1 zone that is mostly destroyed, no hub like at least the Doman Enclave, and almost no side content at the moment outside of the role quest (which I am so glad I finished all of those so I can play that on day 1, before the MQS I might add).

I can only hope this lack of content is due to an Ilsabard expansion being on the horizon, however if this patch preview is a look at to where the priorities of the characters lie then I am even more worried of them not taking us to Ilsabard and it forever just remaining a cloud covered continent while the rest of the world map is filled out and we leave the people to pick up the rubble and ashes while we gallivant across the sea without a care in the world. This is not how I envision my WoL, I think of and RP Seika Miyumi as a kindhearted, selfless, individual who helps anyone in need and always puts others first.

I seriously doubt we're not going to have a proper Garlemald portion of the MSQ, as the twins need to have their piece and they're conspicuously absent from 6.1's scenes.

It's implied there's going to be some bigger reason we're going on this adventure and even this initial destination seems rather important given that Vrtra is getting involved.

Okay, I'm not caught up but I had to say something about the loporits. Someone posted some blurb about Smileton, and it was something about the rabbits creating a paradise for mankind to enjoy for as long as they need, waiting on them, supplying them with their every need and happily serving them? I know the whole paradise thing is absolutely hypocritical, but did, now I don't want to be looking into this too hard, but did Hydaelin actually purposefully create the happy "servant" caricature? I didn't even consider this because I completely skipped everything for both dungeons because rabbits. Endwalker is just bad comedy at this point, it's hilarious. Yes, intent versus execution absolutely matters. You can't get all the possible bad things in your writing out, but you might want to pay attention to it.

also happy page 300 I guess.

They say that Hydaelyn created them "from her love of the people of Etheirys", implying that their servile nature is a byproduct of being extremely nurturing, not because Hydaelyn directly programmed or ordered them to be subservient.

The Loporitz and Smileton was basically just another hamfisting of the "Perfection/paradise is impossible" narrative. The Loporitz tried to create a perfect paradise for mankind on the moon, and failed spectacularly at it. Buildingway tried to create a perfect domicile for mankind, and failed even more spectacularly, then both get told to "just copy what's done on Etheirys", and like all Loporitz, they predictably fall in love with the world as it is.

So once again, it becomes a "Just accept the status quo and make small improvements at best" moral lecture.

They are most assuredly the Lambs of Dalamud. I remember a while back that Koji was asked about them and wanted to see more done with them. Then before EW it was said they'd be featured again, although, I don't know for what purpose. I don't get the appeal, but whatever. I believe they're also in the Tam Tara starter dungeon as well.

There wasn't anything in the trailer that struck me as interesting. I'm glad at least Azeyma doesn't appear to be Venat. The 'Twelve' bosses look cool, but I hate raiding so other than that it's meaningless to me.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Alternatively, we could also have encounters with characters with motivations similar to Ardyn

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I loved Ardyn and frankly wanted to see him win. I didn't particularly like Noctis or most of those on the protagonist's side except for Ignis. Now that I think about it, similar feelings regarding the Scions and the Ascians.

I'm over sympathetic antagonists who end up losing everything and, worse, because after the complete and utter defeat of them the Scions are on the sidelines cheering and patting themselves on the back. It's tasteless. I've said before that FFXIV's narrative comes across as Saturday Morning Cartoon at times, like we need to drive home that the "villain" is beyond redemption and must be condemned despite claims of nuance and no one right side. Well, the 'right' side is always the Scions and whatever they're championing and the 'wrong' side is always who the WoL is sent to crush underfoot to joyous accolades. As we've seen with Venat, it doesn't even matter how atrocious the actions of those on the protagonist's side are, as long as they are in support of the WoL/Scions they are presented as good which is a whole host of issues in itself.

I need a break from being made to feel bad for antagonists, even ones I don't like such as Hermes. Please just give me someone who's fun to love to hate for a change or, barring that, someone who if we're made to like doesn't have to be permanently killed off especially while the Scions won't even break a fingernail in the struggle.

Bringing voidsent back into the picture felt fairly logical to me given the rather high likelyhood that a certain "friend" of ours is going to end up being used as a flesh puppet by one in the wake of his demise.

Being left in another dimension is little obstacle for entities that routinely cross the boundary in search of aether and prey and that ominous voice stating it is "returned at long last" makes me think it's not the first time it's been around to cause trouble.

The hand resembled Erebos to me from Eden(voidsent that Gaia summons the arm of) so i’m hoping it’s that rather than just more Zenos stuff. I’m kinda hoping they just write off his voidsent or leave it as some random boss later on rather than focus on it. He’s had 3 expansions now, it’s time to be done with it.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Bringing voidsent back into the picture felt fairly logical to me given the rather high likelyhood that a certain "friend" of ours is going to end up being used as a flesh puppet by one in the wake of his demise.

Being left in another dimension is little obstacle for entities that routinely cross the boundary in search of aether and prey and that ominous voice stating it is "returned at long last" makes me think it's not the first time it's been around to cause trouble.

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Indeed, the Void is pretty much an unresolved problem as things stand as well.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

Bringing voidsent back into the picture felt fairly logical to me given the rather high likelyhood that a certain "friend" of ours is going to end up being used as a flesh puppet by one in the wake of his demise.

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I just hope they keep Zenos' VA for it, he's great.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

I need a break from being made to feel bad for antagonists, even ones I don't like such as Hermes. Please just give me someone who's fun to love to hate for a change or, barring that, someone who if we're made to like doesn't have to be permanently killed off especially while the Scions won't even break a fingernail in the struggle.

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In terms of unsympathetic antagonists, I believe the best representation of one in the series is Kefka. In stark contrast to the failures of Hermes and Zenos, Kefka accomplished much more by simply being entertaining and not wasting the player's time with teases that never come true or convoluted plot elements like time travel or memory wipes.

Kefka's backstory as the first experimental magitek knight is hardly something an FFVI player needs to understand before they get to really enjoy whenever this character comes on screen, which works well for unsympathetic antagonists because the goal should never be to coax the player into "understanding what they went through" to justify their later actions. I did not appreciate the attempt to get me to feel sorry for Hermes, I liked him better when he was just a psychotic jester.

It was a bad use of screentime, meanwhile when it came to Kefka we got to see him poison and take out Doma in one swoop, a humorous introduction where he literally got his soldiers to wipe the sand off his boots, along various scenes where he betrays his imperial allies and his other acts of cruelty, like him turning various espers into magicite one by one as they threw themselves against him. We do not feel sorry for the character-but we know that whenever he comes on that something worth watching is happening.

The scenes of Hermes in Elpis were a failed attempt to get players to "feel" for him with very little action outside his final scene, but ultimately did more to turn players against him, especially those of us who are no longer affected by the hype from launch and people who were, for logical reasons, sympathetic to the Ancients. Endwalker would have worked excellent without him and with either Zenos or Venat taking on the role of primary antagonist, but I suppose the overwhelming urge to "subvert expectations!" couldn't be resisted by whoever decided to rework the story that the lead writers had already laid out.

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Originally Posted by FrightfulNight

It appears Garlemald only appears in the role quest in 6.1 despite being in the most dire straights at the moment. Sharlyan may have to change some policies but is still whole. Thravnir suffered massive damage as well but it at least still has a leader and viable living conditions. Garlemald has been reduced to Rubble, its residence huddling in a subways (and it was hinted at that a large amount of citizens and soldiers were un tempered and are undergoing treatment after the tower of babel so they need a more viable living location soon) and it has no current leader or government that people can turn to.

You think this would be the prime concern for the WoL due to how they like helping those in need but the recent trailer just shows us helping personal colleges to shard hop and go on a treasure hunt because lol TrEaSuRe and AdVeNtUrE. So very personal stuff over helping people in need. Maybe I am wrong maybe the dungeon serves the same purpose as the one in 4.1 to get an ancient lost treasure to help the economy of those who have suffered the most in the final days and repair some of the damage, so namely Garlemald, Thravnir, and the at the moment unvisited Corvos. Maybe they were to busy trying to get 6.0 finished and used this patch cycle to tune old content from 2.0 and so the story is more filler. Maybe Garlemald will get a similar treatment to Doma in SB where it gets a hub that is repaired over the expansion like the Doman Enclave and story arch that lasts at least 2 patches, which it is at least owed after losing an entire expansion. But still this lack of focus after I now know that a Garlean Expansion was sacrificed to rush the finale is only going to make me be more critical of the lack of content focused on Garlemald, only having 1 zone that is mostly destroyed, no hub like at least the Doman Enclave, and almost no side content at the moment outside of the role quest (which I am so glad I finished all of those so I can play that on day 1, before the MQS I might add).

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Nah you see, the people of Garlemald need to learn from their suffering and become stronger. We shouldn’t have to help them improve their quality of lives because it will only make them weaker.

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Originally Posted by RoroCookies

Nah you see, the people of Garlemald need to learn from their suffering and become stronger. We shouldn’t have to help them improve their quality of lives because it will only make them weaker.

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Indeed, back to the caves with them, and for that matter, everyone else!

Echo chamber aside. Zenos works as a simple antagonist. Shame about that middle bit with the Fandaniel/Hermes nonsense. Also having Venat play antagonist would just turn 14 into another cliché jrpg story.