#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

Yep, have definitely fallen asleep healing. Not so much a skill issue at that point though /lol.

So when is Esuna ever useful? As far as I know all debuffs in dungeons or raids are uncleansable. I mean I can understand the vuln stacks, but everything else? What's the point of keeping a cleansing skill if there's nothing to cleanse except the odd overworld paralysis or Bad Breath?

...I miss Warden's Paean on Dooms in Dun Scaith.

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

So when is Esuna ever useful? As far as I know all debuffs in dungeons or raids are uncleansable. I mean I can understand the vuln stacks, but everything else? What's the point of keeping a cleansing skill if there's nothing to cleanse except the odd overworld paralysis or Bad Breath?

...I miss Warden's Paean on Dooms in Dun Scaith.

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they do that to make content artificially harder. A lot of debuffs could easily be made cleansable

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Originally Posted by Local_Custard

they do that to make content artificially harder. A lot of debuffs could easily be made cleansable

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Kind of stupid if you ask me. If anything, having more debuffs that healers need to cleanse in harder content (or wipe or whatever) would actually slightly increase difficulty while making it a tad more engaging to the Green DPS (like for example who gets the priority cleanse before X mechanic or something). I know they started adding out-of-arena zones debuffs in dungeons that are uncleansable too, and I can understand that one alongside the vulns.

There's a lot of different possibilities with throwing debuffs at players, not just "Damage taken Up" or "Damage dealt Down".

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

Kind of stupid if you ask me. If anything, having more debuffs that healers need to cleanse in harder content (or wipe or whatever) would actually slightly increase difficulty while making it a tad more engaging to the Green DPS (like for example who gets the priority cleanse before X mechanic or something). I know they started adding out-of-arena zones debuffs in dungeons that are uncleansable too, and I can understand that one alongside the vulns.

There's a lot of different possibilities with throwing debuffs at players, not just "Damage taken Up" or "Damage dealt Down".

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One debuff I wish to see more often when someone is hit by an avoidable AoE is heavy. Makes the player more likely to be hit by the AoEs as they try running to safety very slowly

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Originally Posted by Xieldras

So when is Esuna ever useful? As far as I know all debuffs in dungeons or raids are uncleansable. I mean I can understand the vuln stacks, but everything else? What's the point of keeping a cleansing skill if there's nothing to cleanse except the odd overworld paralysis or Bad Breath?

...I miss Warden's Paean on Dooms in Dun Scaith.

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Um… many instances of poison, doom, paralyze, etc are esunable even in current content ….. so much so the literal healer role quest this expansion was a big reminder that it exists and to use it.

They really need to make healers needed in normal dungeons. The fact that healers have to run savages and ultimates in order to play their role to retarded as F. They need to make it so healing is hard required in normal dungeons. Period.

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Originally Posted by Local_Custard

they do that to make content artificially harder. A lot of debuffs could easily be made cleansable

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It's not only to be harder, "artificially" or otherwise. Not that vulnerability up debuffs or damage down debuffs are good for the game, but different debuffs reorient permissible means of rDPS gains and the costs of failure and who more tangibly needs to respond to them.

The first implementations of such debuffs are actually one of the rare cases where the response was pretty close to community requests. "My party members won't bother to move out of AoEs and just expect me to heal them through everything and blame me when I finally oom and we then wipe due to their negligence" led first to "This will eventually kill you, so dodge" and then to "You literally cannot fully greed this; if you don't dodge, you lose damage even if it won't eventually kill you."

The problem is that the issues should have been resolved with better learning systems and clarifications of the ToA, but that was a time of peak protection for lethargic or even leeching play (asking players to contribute would be trying to force a different play style on them and therefore reportable, but refusing to do anything would simply be a difference in play style which is kickable but never reportable") and XIV and well-devised learning systems have never gone together.
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As for cleansing mechanics, though, I'm honestly glad most damage over time effects are not cleansible, as they reduce our usually dozen+ responses and interactions between it and other damage sources... with the single and spammable "undo mechanic" button.

By all means, I'd love to see more to cleanse outside of just the Role Quests and older content, but that should be by adding more debuffs, not by shifting them to be yet more easily dealt with; I prefer that Doom and DoTs be handled by actual healing.
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Final Tangent: I'm actually totally fine with good parties with at least half of players with cross-role capacities not needing healers in fairly casual content, but I do think DPS sustain should be more pressed outside of just unavoidable boss AoEs (including stack markers). Ideally, I'd have dungeons simply and pretty automatically assign categories to each enemy action and scale those outputs, count, and frequencies with one's role composition and give non-tanks, too, a Provoke+lingering_enmity_multiplier.

Want to run the dungeon with 4 DPS? It'll require arguably more complex tanking (via kiting, splitting, and rotating who's being targeted) than when on a tank and stricter healing CD schedules than when on a healer and stricter meeting of DPS checks and dodges than in a standard comp, but it'd be doable. And with that, you reduce the forced-to-take-anyways privilege for complacent design.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

It's not only to be harder, "artificially" or otherwise. Not that vulnerability up debuffs or damage down debuffs are good for the game, but different debuffs reorient permissible means of rDPS gains and the costs of failure and who more tangibly needs to respond to them.

The first implementations of such debuffs are actually one of the rare cases where the response was pretty close to community requests. "My party members won't bother to move out of AoEs and just expect me to heal them through everything and blame me when I finally oom and we then wipe due to their negligence" led first to "This will eventually kill you, so dodge" and then to "You literally cannot fully greed this; if you don't dodge, you lose damage even if it won't eventually kill you."

The problem is that the issues should have been resolved with better learning systems and clarifications of the ToA, but that was a time of peak protection for lethargic or even leeching play (asking players to contribute would be trying to force a different play style on them and therefore reportable, but refusing to do anything would simply be a difference in play style which is kickable but never reportable") and XIV and well-devised learning systems have never gone together.

As for cleansing mechanics, though, I'm honestly glad most damage over time effects are not cleansible, as they reduce our usually dozen+ responses and interactions between it and other damage sources... with the single and spammable "undo mechanic" button.

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good point. Though, I do feel that maybe there are too many uncleansable debuffs. The devs could probably go back through content and make some debuffs cleansable

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Originally Posted by BunnyQueen

They really need to make healers needed in normal dungeons. The fact that healers have to run savages and ultimates in order to play their role to retarded as F. They need to make it so healing is hard required in normal dungeons. Period.

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It already is, though, if you're running typical content with a typical DF group. That's where a key issue comes in - there is a significant disparity in skill across the massive size of the playerbase. "Normal" content has to be reasonably clearable by the low end of that pool. It's why a variety of increasingly more difficult content is then created on top of that "normal" level, so that players of successively higher skill have progressively harder content to engage with.