#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

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Originally Posted by Aravell

See, you're just proving my point.

Damage isn't the focus, it's not your main priority, it's optional.

So something completely optional needed to be simplified because......?

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"We aren't designing encounters around healers doing dps. SO....let's give them extensive dps skills". That makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

"We aren't designing encounters around healers doing dps. SO....let's give them extensive dps skills". That makes no sense.

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I'm not talking about giving then extensive dps skills, I'm talking about the simplifications from SB > ShB.

It never needed to happen in the first place because dealing damage isn't our main focus. So why would there be any reason to simplify something optional that people aren't forced to engage in?

That's the part that doesn't make any sense.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

"We aren't designing encounters around healers doing dps. SO....let's give them extensive dps skills". That makes no sense.

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The point is, why remove what we had, if we aren't designing around healers doing dps? Why bother rebalancing the potency of SCH's one remaining DOT after removing the others to keep SCH's damage output roughly equal, when they could have just left Bio as being 35p as it was in SB? It shouldn't matter whether that DOT does 35p per tick or 70 (now 75) because the SCH isn't meant to be doing damage in the first place... right? Additionally, you might have missed it on your way to level 100, but they did just add new damage actions, in this very expansion. If they weren't designing encounters around healers doing DPS, what was the point in adding Glare 4? So we could kill overworld mobs faster? So we could do solo instances for story faster?

Also, 'extensive' is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. I'd like to believe that a lot of players who are asking for this 'extensive' kit, are simply asking for the SB damage kits back which is... one extra DOT per job, essentially?

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Originally Posted by Aravell

I'm not talking about giving then extensive dps skills, I'm talking about the simplifications from SB > ShB.

It never needed to happen in the first place because dealing damage isn't our main focus. So why would there be any reason to simplify something optional that people aren't forced to engage in?

That's the part that doesn't make any sense.

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The poster above already answered you, as did Yoshi P. They wanted the DPS simple enough for the typical player to engage with and still succeed in their role.

In theory, they already need to watch health bars. They need to watch for status effects. It's more important for the healer than anyone else not to fail mechanics as they can be a fail condition and have low defenses so we can get 2-shot. Or, 1 shot if you fall off a platform.

They don't also want people looking for DPS procs or having difficult rotations. Probably they think this would add to all the responsibilities a healer already has.

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

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I'm not asking you to like damage kits, I'm just pointing out the logical flaw.

If something is optional, people can choose to not engage with it if it's too hard. Therefore, there's not any reason to make it simpler.

But I can't convince you if you don't see it as a logical flaw, so we can just disagree.

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Originally Posted by ForsakenRoe

Also, 'extensive' is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. I'd like to believe that a lot of players who are asking for this 'extensive' kit, are simply asking for the SB damage kits back which is... one extra DOT per job, essentially?

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I thought they wanted to reduce dots in this game for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

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thats an understatement. SE is currently in the business of stripping all responsibility from healers

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Originally Posted by Aravell

See, you're just proving my point.

Damage isn't the focus, it's not your main priority, it's optional.

So something completely optional needed to be simplified because......?

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I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community healers with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

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It's healers. Not "the community".
Not to mention, you're comparing apples and oranges, and not even accurately, in the case of CC, chat was limited in all modes, and it took less than a day for toxic spam to start even with the limited chat that we had - not that "everyone" did it, but it happened frequently enough.

In the case of DPS skills, we have less than we used to have, fine, but where it matters, having less DPS skills makes it more difficult to optimize now. There have been some very good posts outline why so no, it's not "impossible to screw up", I would argue that there are better ways to design a job, if cognitive overload is a concern, probably by integrating healing and DPS skills (like macrocosmos).

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Originally Posted by ZephyrMenodora

Essentially DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the healer job. It makes perfect sense.

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DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the tank job, either. So why do tanks get more than two DPS buttons to push?

Tanxiety is a thing, enough people talk about it for you to see that this is true. Tanks are expected to be the leader, set the pace, position the boss, use their mits, and handle swaps and shared busters. And yet, tanks aren't coddled and babied the way healers are. CBU3 isn't saying, "Oh you poor dears, let's take away all but two damage buttons so that you won't feel unreasonably pressured to deal damage while tanking."

This is the problem with the "healers shouldn't DPS" argument. Every formulation of it applies equally to tanks, and none of the people advancing it ever acknowledge it, even after it is pointed out to them. It is an argument for a different game than FF14. FF14 doesn't, and never has had, an attrition healing model. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. Given that reality, given the mountains of evidence that the devs don't give an airborne fornication about the healer role, a better DPS kit is the least-effort way for CBU3 to make the role less boring.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

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This post by Nizzi demonstrates, using the world-record speedkill for E8S, that healer DPS is required to clear E8S. Subtracting the healer DPS from the world-record speedkill leaves a remaining DPS number that is below the minimum needed to beat the enrage for that fight. It was mathematically impossible to clear E8S without healer DPS when it was current content.