Female Hrothgar as a playable race. Show your support!

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Originally Posted by juicybug

I think this is basically what they'll be but flat feet and a baby tail.

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I don't mind it, but personally, I would prefer a small snout rather than a flat face. But oh well...

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

I don't mind it, but personally, I would prefer a small snout rather than a flat face. But oh well...

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we are in the same boat but different songs:
I would rather hrothgar be Ronso from X

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Originally Posted by juicybug

we are in the same boat but different songs:
I would rather hrothgar be Ronso from X

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Then we are in the same boat. I would LOVE to change Hrothgar to Ronso! As an FFX fan, this would be like a dream!

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Then we are in the same boat. I would LOVE to change Hrothgar to Ronso! As an FFX fan, this would be like a dream!

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yea!!

One thing I'll say is I do hope, and look forward to their fur markings and hairstyles. I'm excited to see the potential there.
And hopefully they can go back and do what they do with femhroth and make positive changes to the males.

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Originally Posted by juicybug

https://i.imgur.com/JR15DZH.png

I think this is basically what they'll be but flat feet and a baby tail.

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That's not far from what I imagined they would look like, to be honest.

Honestly looking forward to what their racial hairstyles will look like. Viera and FemRoe have some of the best long hair styles in the game so I hope they're on par at least.

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Originally Posted by juicybug

https://i.imgur.com/JR15DZH.png

I think this is basically what they'll be but flat feet and a baby tail.

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I'd delete this entire game if that's how they'd end up being.

My hope that I also understand has no chance especially with the state of those hrothgar hair because they'd have to make a new skeleton for, has always been that female hrothgar were tall and wide, there's already tall and skinny/regular for women but men have that and also tall and wide in roe/mhroth

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'd delete this entire game if that's how they'd end up being.

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Chances are that is exactly what is going to look like due to the forced gender dimorphism in a lot of games.
I think the best middle ground would be to add the female Ronso from X.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e8/0a/4a/e...4c3--peeps.jpg

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Originally Posted by Pip_Chick

Chances are that is exactly what is going to look like due to the forced gender dimorphism in a lot of games.
I think the best middle ground would be to add the female Ronso from X.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/e8/0a/4a/e...4c3--peeps.jpg

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Are you implying that the male Hrothgar are free from this?
Because they're not ( they're probably the most conventionally hyper masculine in the game, their bodies are just hairy bodybuilders ).
It's not really '' forced '' either it's just what most find appealing and how to best communicate gender.

Honestly the pic Juicybug posted isn't even *that* far off from Hrothgar.
I'd be pretty excited for it and would probably switch over.
It's just a bit cleaner and more shiny than FFXIV's artstyle, you wouldn't have to push the '' animal '' part much more at all.
I'd say Juicybugs example looks more like Hrothgar than yours tbh.

If I look at RyuDragnier's profile pic and compare it directly side by side with Juicybugs from his quote comment they actually look very similar in style the pic just looks a bit more feminine which is to be expected.


Edit: To be clear I am not saying that people can't want more masculine female characters, I mean people wanted more feminine male characters for Viera and I'd say that's what they got.
But I also don't think that the female Hrothgar being more feminine would be a problem and I also think that ultimately most people would prefer it.
And I also don't think that Juicybugs pic is actually that far off from the equivelant for Hrothgar it's actually very close.
Not identical but close.

In the end of the day I think they'll disappoint people no matter what they do, but I also don't get this obsession with downplaying feminine curves.
The male Viera still have masculine curves even tho they're more feminine.

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Originally Posted by juicybug

https://i.imgur.com/JR15DZH.png

I think this is basically what they'll be but flat feet and a baby tail.

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Love the feet type could use some tweak on the face to make it slightly more animal like but overall i would love this model.

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Originally Posted by Syln

Love the feet type could use some tweak on the face to make it slightly more animal like but overall i would love this model.

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I wouldn't expect flat feet too or a '' baby tail '' either, I don't think that Miqo'te have a tail length difference?
But yeah I think this as a framework is almost identical to Hrothgar ( EMPHASIS ON ALMOST ).
It kinda looks like Hrothgar but with a '' clean face '', with markings and facial features removed basically.

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Originally Posted by Karneios

My hope that I also understand has no chance especially with the state of those hrothgar hair because they'd have to make a new skeleton for, has always been that female hrothgar were tall and wide, there's already tall and skinny/regular for women but men have that and also tall and wide in roe/mhroth

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It's going to be relative, I am expecting them to be tall and wide relative to other female races just like how Highlander is tall and wide relative to Midlander.
And Roegadyns too who have smaller hips and wider shoulders compared to the rest.
I am not expecting them to be so compared to male Hrothgar it almost just begs the question what the point even is then.

Generally speaking you also want to be able to see what someone is with a quick glance that's usually how design works in games.
Things are meant to be easily registered in your eyes and have clear silhouettes.

I see people compare Hrothgar to Charr in Guild Wars 2 sometimes, but Charr are more beastial so you can stray away even further from human anatomy.
Hrothgar are still essentially hairy bodybuilders they're still adherent to human anatomy.

Buddy. No one is demanding for them to be or not to be feminine. I would be the first one to be disappointed if they were "men with boobs". Cause there is nothing wrong or weak about a female build.
Hrothgar are not hairy bodybuilders, if anything they fit more in the "Bara" category. And what do you mean gender dimorphism is not forced? When creating a beast race, developers would experiment a lot with their look, making them big, deformed, grotesque (in some cases). All the while their female counterpart has to fall into some sort of norms for conventional attractiveness.
What do you mean the picture that I showed looks nothing like Hrothgar but a picture of the Panthera is identical to Hrothgar? They literally have human faces with the top of their lips being pushed upwards to give the impression of a cat mouth, while Hrothgar has lion faces, with an elongated snout?
The picture that I showed depicts a female Ronso from FFX, the race that was the inspiration for Hrothgar.
No one is arguing against female curves, as a woman, I WANT them to have curves and to show that being feminine is not equal to being weak. I imagine the female Hrothgar having more of an Amazonian build (think Wonder Woman) with more feline faces (and maybe shorter snouts).
And yes people will be disappointed, I know this. You can't please everyone. But as a 3D artist, when I create a model like Hrothgar, I tend to look into the demographic that I want to please. Hrothgar is a niche, that would encompass the "Furries". In this case, I would look at furry artists and their artworks to see some sort of common trends, pinpoint what I find interesting and use it as a wireframe for my work. And in my experience, the majority of furries tend to like more animal faces, so that might be the route they will be going for. At the end of the day, I don't work for SE so I can only guess what they might do.
And the comment that more people would enjoy it if it was "X" way is honestly a dumb argument. If they want a cat race with a humanoid face, they already have Miquo'te. If you want to play a pretty girl race you have: Miquo'te, Au'ra, Elezen, Hyur and Viera. If you want to play as a big buff woman then you have Roegadin and Highlander. If you want to play a furry race you have nothing. The addition of this race is to give more options and to try and accommodate different types of players: the players that only play human races, the ones who want humans with just a bit of spice (like cat ears and horns) and people who like to play as beast races.
At the end of the day, I would like different options rather than the same option with different sprinkles. But hey, that's just me.

Hey guys, femhrothlover666 here with some more hopium to fuel your femhroth desires.
You know how Yoship is a fan of WoW? I did some research on their beast races and found that both the worgen and tauren males have massive hunched backs while their female counterparts have a more straight posture.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

Hey guys, femhrothlover666 here with some more hopium to fuel your femhroth desires.
You know how Yoship is a fan of WoW? I did some research on their beast races and found that both the worgen and tauren males have massive hunched backs while their female counterparts have a more straight posture.

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Not even the dudes like the haunch. I don't know why the go-to for male beastfolk is to break their spines.

They fear the age old adage "its just a roe with a mask".

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Not even the dudes like the haunch. I don't know why the go-to for male beastfolk is to break their spines.

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Yeah this so much. WOW devs even gave the option to have straight backs on orcs and trolls (zandalari trolls) and they both look way better without it. Love the zandalari trolls for that sole reason.

I hope they appear before Patch 7.0, but we’ll see.

It’s weird that Square Enix didn’t just do both male and female Viera for Shadowbringers, and then male and female Hrothgar for Endwalker, or vice versa; besides both races still lacking the full customization that other races have, we’re currently in an unbalanced and unfair situation where people who only want to play as a female character have objectively less options available to them. It was silly to have gender-locked races in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

I hope they appear before Patch 7.0, but we’ll see.

It’s weird that Square Enix didn’t just do both male and female Viera for Shadowbringers, and then male and female Hrothgar for Endwalker, or vice versa; besides both races still lacking the full customization that other races have, we’re currently in an unbalanced and unfair situation where people who only want to play as a female character have objectively less options available to them. It was silly to have gender-locked races in the first place.

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What do you mean ? Yoshi-P already showed us how they will look like in the previous live letter (first Hrotgar's new hairstyle pic) so i guess they are about to be added to the game :3

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Originally Posted by Syln

What do you mean ? Yoshi-P already showed us how they will look like in the previous live letter (first Hrotgar's new hairstyle pic) so i guess they are about to be added to the game :3

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Earless behavior will not be tolerated.

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Originally Posted by MellowMink

It’s weird that Square Enix didn’t just do both male and female Viera for Shadowbringers, and then male and female Hrothgar for Endwalker, or vice versa

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Gender counterparts were never on the table for female Viera and male Hrothgar, that's why they didn't do it this way. Female Viera, made sense considering in all of the ivalice games the male Viera have never been seen, but only spoken of. They only implemented male Hrothgar because... Well, other than the developers wanted them, I assume they just wanted to release a gender counterpart of some other sort and leave them as a 'pair' if you will.

It's only because people started calling SE homophobic, sexist and all sorts that they caved in to the community outcry. There were even articles of it... No business wants to be marked as that.

Overall, I'm quite surprised people are still asking about Female Hrothgar, considering this could result in an even slower process of updating male Hrothgar. I found this quote which I never thought of before, but this pretty much hints where a lot of their resources are going. It would also make sense why female Viera and male Hrothgar were ignored for 3 years, because majority of their design team were focused on male Viera? Just my guess.
"I’m sure you all understand that a new race will require new faces, emotes, hairstyles, bodies, and other assets. In addition to this, they need to be capable of equipping all existing items—this alone requires a massive commitment of resources. Each race has a unique frame and body type, and so every piece of visible equipment needs to be carefully adjusted to display properly on Hrothgar and Viera models."

SE wasn't so much as homophobic (lol) as they were viewed as lazy when they revealed malehroth and female buns. The devs are also hacks who'd rather spend more resources on "ancillary" systems like adventure plates than updating the engine. And I'm not talking about a graphic overhaul I mean taking apart the engine piece by piece and untangling all that goddamn rotten 1.0 spahgetti.

More choices the better sadly I do not think the developers like the Ronso so much. Just look at the scary Karen hair styles they gave you all

That hrothgar with the 2B hair was so bad people thought it was an April Fool's joke.

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Originally Posted by FawkesWyznfarr

SE wasn't so much as homophobic (lol) as they were viewed as lazy when they revealed malehroth and female buns. The devs are also hacks who'd rather spend more resources on "ancillary" systems like adventure plates than updating the engine. And I'm not talking about a graphic overhaul I mean taking apart the engine piece by piece and untangling all that goddamn rotten 1.0 spahgetti.

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Tech debt is no joke, and I bet this game has a metric ton of debt given the mess that was 1.0 and the rush job that was 2.0.
I suspect they don't want to fix it cause looking at this game's source code is like looking at an eldrich horror.

I would bet that any review of the code would conclude that starting from scratch would be a cheaper and more time efficient plan.

The devs were definitely called homophobic, transphobic, sexist, etc etc. People were absolutely rabbit (:D) about it for a few months.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

The devs were definitely called homophobic, transphobic, sexist, etc etc. People were absolutely rabbit (:D) about it for a few months.

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They were. People on Reddit and Discord even had to tell those people to calm down. People just up and assumed that the exclusion of gender counterparts, particularly Male Viera, meant that the dev team didn't care about gay people and that the gender locking was trans-exclusive.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

They were. People on Reddit and Discord even had to tell those people to calm down. People just up and assumed that the exclusion of gender counterparts, particularly Male Viera, meant that the dev team didn't care about gay people and that the gender locking was trans-exclusive.

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And simultaneously absolute, seething hatred toward Hrothgars and anyone who even dared mentioning they liked the idea of a furry/beast race. A lot of the flame calmed down after Yoshi P had to come forth and outright say 'no' to boyish looking Viera though, but it was....a glorious dumpster fire, to put it bluntly.

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Originally Posted by Allegor

And simultaneously absolute, seething hatred toward Hrothgars and anyone who even dared mentioning they liked the idea of a furry/beast race. A lot of the flame calmed down after Yoshi P had to come forth and outright say 'no' to boyish looking Viera though, but it was....a glorious dumpster fire, to put it bluntly.

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I won't try to pretend I wasn't resentful over the male viera situation (no female hrothgar always hit me as more of an issue as we have actually seen female ronso). Won't pretend I didn't stoke the flames. People who went off about how you're either a bigot or a sexual predator for being on either side of the #Ideal male viera debate were wild, though.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

They were. People on Reddit and Discord even had to tell those people to calm down. People just up and assumed that the exclusion of gender counterparts, particularly Male Viera, meant that the dev team didn't care about gay people and that the gender locking was trans-exclusive.

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Lol. Probably the same kind of people who lose their mind once a gender locked outfit becomes available to all genders.

I think the "-phobic" and "bigot" labels are a step too far, but there's no denying that making the cute/sexy furry races female and the buff/brutish characters male is a rather gender-essentialist viewpoint.

I mean, I get it; I'm gay for pretty cat and bunny girls, but if a player wants to be an effeminate cat/bunny boy or a hulking giant/lioness that looks like she can benchpress a tank, they should have the option.

Naaaah. Leave the degeneracy to the modders

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Originally Posted by Allegor

And simultaneously absolute, seething hatred toward Hrothgars and anyone who even dared mentioning they liked the idea of a furry/beast race. A lot of the flame calmed down after Yoshi P had to come forth and outright say 'no' to boyish looking Viera though, but it was....a glorious dumpster fire, to put it bluntly.

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I didn't see a lot of hatred towards hrothgars, at least in my thread. I do remember thinking that it may have been worth it to have male and female viera first instead because of the hair issue with hrothgar. But even back then, I thought hrothgar was a nice addition to the game.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

I won't try to pretend I wasn't resentful over the male viera situation (no female hrothgar always hit me as more of an issue as we have actually seen female ronso). Won't pretend I didn't stoke the flames. People who went off about how you're either a bigot or a sexual predator for being on either side of the #Ideal male viera debate were wild, though.

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Those types of accusations were thrown out not because they actually care about the safety of real children, but because they wanted male viera to look a certain way (big and buff) or they wanted to troll. These people would say and accuse you of anything to have their way and it was pathetic. I did take time to self reflect thinking on if I actually violated some more or crossed a taboo for suggesting a small race, but I realized I was just being gaslighted. I had a field day when male viera came out slim, elegant, bishounen, and shorter than the females. Had a good laugh when some of these people were on board right up until they heard about the height difference, despite it being such a small gap.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I didn't see a lot of hatred towards hrothgars, at least in my thread. I do remember thinking that it may have been worth it to have male and female viera first instead because of the hair issue with hrothgar. But even back then, I thought hrothgar was a nice addition to the game.

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It wasn't on your thread, it happened A LOT in social media. Reddit and their stream comments especially.

Nice for thinking Hrothgar were a nice addition to the game though. I can guarantee you I had to deal with a lot of comments the past 3 years against the race I chose to play from a lot of people though. It certainly hasn't lightened, what with people still making comments about "Yoshida wanting to skin cats" in these forums.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

It wasn't on your thread, it happened A LOT in social media. Reddit and their stream comments especially.

Nice for thinking Hrothgar were a nice addition to the game though. I can guarantee you I had to deal with a lot of comments the past 3 years against the race I chose to play from a lot of people though. It certainly hasn't lightened, what with people still making comments about "Yoshida wanting to skin cats" in these forums.

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Oh, I haven't really been keeping up with any of that, only what was going on in my thread. What kind of comments have you been getting? Hrothgar are very eye catching to me and I think they bring a lot of variety to the game. Even though they have hair/hat issues, it was worth it to have them in the game. Maybe the graphics team is trying to resolve these issues before they release female hrothgar.

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Originally Posted by Senn

I didn't see a lot of hatred towards hrothgars, at least in my thread. I do remember thinking that it may have been worth it to have male and female viera first instead because of the hair issue with hrothgar. But even back then, I thought hrothgar was a nice addition to the game.

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I don't know if it was just in the male viera thread specifically, but I remember saying time and time again hrothgar shouldn't be blamed. I do remember people attacking hrothgar's inclusion.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I don't know if it was just in the male viera thread specifically, but I remember saying time and time again hrothgar shouldn't be blamed. I do remember people attacking hrothgar's inclusion.

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I don't think hrothgar should be blamed either. What were people saying about hrothgar exactly?

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Originally Posted by Roda

A gentle doublepost bump with an update on my disobedient hand
https://i.imgur.com/VWTnQX4.png
No profile yet, but I'll get there @@

(Bonus clan-based coloration difference, or face exclusive toggleable)

https://i.imgur.com/Mg2Zqk7.png
To match the white couerls

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I liked this one the most so far. It has a good correlation on details and forms with its male counterpart.

I can imagine different hair styles in each model! :)

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Originally Posted by Senn

I don't think hrothgar should be blamed either. What were people saying about hrothgar exactly?

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Pretty much that it should have been male viera instead of hrothgar, blaming hrothgar and hrothgar players for the exclusion of male viera at the time... Hrothgar players probably know exactly what I'm talking about.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Oh, I haven't really been keeping up with any of that, only what was going on in my thread. What kind of comments have you been getting? Hrothgar are very eye catching to me and I think they bring a lot of variety to the game. Even though they have hair/hat issues, it was worth it to have them in the game. Maybe the graphics team is trying to resolve these issues before they release female hrothgar.

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Apart from the general crap I've seen aimed at Hrothgar in general, the stuff I personally had to deal with were:

- Being excluded from my own former FC's events and screenshots with them for playing Hrothgar because they themselves didn't like Hrothgar
- Being blamed for "enjoying Hrothgar, a race that had stolen Male Viera"
- Some random guy in PF just trash talking me and another friend of mine the moment we walk into E5S for being Hrothgar
- Comments about being a furry. Which, okay sure, I am, but still not really something to just randomly trash talk people about?
- My personal favourite: being excluded from an RP venue and accused of being a zoophile. Completely unprompted. It was not an ERP place at all, it was just casual. They just didn't trust Hrothgar and Lalafell players.

Edit: This was both in-game and on discord. It's why I mostly just stick to Hrothgar-only groups now.