OMG Give us an AOE heal that is not worthless!

at your gear, your succor does not heal for 400. i am full DL with my relic and it heals for around 340-360.

If your going to post dont lie please.


And do not refrence to titan. the only hard part about that fight is that you depend on 100% execution from other people with little to no room for error. our shield as of now is basically a support to a WHM. you saying you had a WHM in your party only agrees more with our point that the AoE scholars are stuck with needs some mechanical changes or a potency increase for what little it does

And yes i have killed turn 4 and have coil on farm. Was super easy.

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Originally Posted by kronpas

No, the crux of the issue is that most WHMs think they know what SCHs actually want and post accordingly. Most likely those ignorant WHMs cant read past the first post of a thread also, lolz.

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Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 150.
Additional Effect: Erects a magical barrier which nullifies damage equal to the amount of HP restored.
Duration: 30s

Or Scholars are working by design and the OP's post is one of ignorance asking for another ability which would break the scholar job. And your post is one of irony there is really nothing to be said about your blatant lack of insight to the class you play you can't see the forest for the trees either stop bitching about scholar's and imagined WHM attacks because some us can see outside the box or fucking reroll.

That was your 2nd post in this thread, lifeendeath. I sincerely hope you did read at least a few pages back before posting again, because if it werent the case, I'm genuinely worry for your reading comprehension. You squarely fall into the very type of WHM I described in your quote :)

I'm a little confused about what SCH players realistically want. Is it stacking buffs? Spammable AoE? AoE that heals for more?Better pet AI, so you don't have to manually control it?

Is playing a scholar that challenging that these things need to be implemented? Or is it players looking for excuses for not having the skill to compete?

The scholars I've healed with seem to do okay.
Just wondered.

What we want is better Pet AI, and an aoe That isnt a waste to use after the first cast. so that could mean a potency increase (maybe 200-250) or just a mechanical change.

I get the pet requests, but it is confusing to see posts about how easy content is while asking for even stronger ae heals...

I can't help but feel shields and heals should be separate. If I'm preventative, give me a big shield for prior to a big hit, or for me to erect afterward if I missed the hit and my pet and I to single target people back up. The preventative shield combined with the heal run counter to each other rather than benefiting each other beyond having a crit opportunity-- much of which is wasted by having to spam it to bring people up for the next big hit. I just don't feel as though I prevent much damage considering how much can be dealt raid wide plus to tanks at same time, it's usually an ugly catch-up game.

I think larger shields (without healing attached) with us the ability to pop all of them to convert them to healing ourselves for the healing would be fun. Might cost us an extra GCD, but if it might be another interesting mechanic that I think might fit thematically. How big shields should be, if you could pop only your own, the costs, etc, well that's for crunchers.

They could just have casting succor reduce the mana cost and cast time of your next succor for 10 seconds. Then you have to spam it but it is faster and costs less. Done. No overpowering or stepping on toes of other classes.

Make it a trait that replaces a useless one.

It's a situational buff for the times you really need it.

You can't make it a trait though, since Arcanist doesn't have Succor you'd saddle Summoners with a dead weight trait... It would have to be baseline.

But just out of interest, what would you have replaced?

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Originally Posted by GramkarSilverpaw

You can't make it a trait though, since Arcanist doesn't have Succor you'd saddle Summoners with a dead weight trait... It would have to be baseline.

But just out of interest, what would you have replaced?

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Dunno, just been seeing requests for better traits. Baseline is fine. It addresses the stated issues, though.

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Originally Posted by jdnyc

I'm a little confused about what SCH players realistically want. Is it stacking buffs? Spammable AoE? AoE that heals for more?Better pet AI, so you don't have to manually control it?

Is playing a scholar that challenging that these things need to be implemented? Or is it players looking for excuses for not having the skill to compete?

The scholars I've healed with seem to do okay.
Just wondered.

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no its retarded easy, i think scholars are better healers then whm's personally :<. Just a little lack in the aoe department but hey their 2 different classes

Eh, I just want the stupid skill speed buff to be auto-casted tbh. One less thing to watch because I'm lazy.

Edit: and bad.

scholars can out heal whm very easily. I do it all the time on my sch. You key bind the fairies heals so you get control over embrace and use it on whoever you want when you want. My succor heals for 400 a hit plus the 400 bubble so that is basically an 800 heal. So if you need to heal 2 targets at once lets say the tank and a dps. You heal the tank while you make your fairie heal the dps. Simple as that, ladies and gents. Scholars are very powerful healers when played correctly.

Also, healing macros so you don't have to target to heal=op.

I can with very much all the confidence in the world can say that most of us SCHs want our freakn fairies to not switch from Steady to Guard every time you force a skill. Other than this (which is really only an annoyance since you can in actually hit Steady after EVERY SINGLE EMBRACE) I can't think of anything that is horribly wrong with the SCH Job. ^^

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

scholars can out heal whm very easily. I do it all the time on my sch. You key bind the fairies heals so you get control over embrace and use it on whoever you want when you want. My succor heals for 400 a hit plus the 400 bubble so that is basically an 800 heal. So if you need to heal 2 targets at once lets say the tank and a dps. You heal the tank while you make your fairie heal the dps. Simple as that, ladies and gents. Scholars are very powerful healers when played correctly.

Also, healing macros so you don't have to target to heal=op.

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Nobody's complaining about spot healing. They're complaining about succor.

Great, your Succor heals for 800 at Darklight+AF2 (it sure as hell ain't healing for 400 even in Darklight standards). The WHM's Medica II just healed for double or triple of that amount.

It's the fact that in a single GCD a WHM can put out an aoe heal that takes the scholar 3 GCD's (the shields don't stack either, so after repeating the cast you waste half the potency of the spell) while not tank healing.

All the WHM needs to do is a Medica II+Medica and that alone will top off the raid in most circumstances. Succor doesn't come close to that.

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Nobody's complaining about spot healing. They're complaining about succor.

Great, your Succor heals for 800 at Darklight+AF2 (it sure as hell ain't healing for 400 even in Darklight standards). The WHM's Medica II just healed for double or triple of that amount.

It's the fact that in a single GCD a WHM can put out an aoe heal that takes the scholar 3 GCD's (the shields don't stack either, so after repeating the cast you waste half the potency of the spell) while not tank healing.

All the WHM needs to do is a Medica II+Medica and that alone will top off the raid in most circumstances. Succor doesn't come close to that.

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Idk where you are getting your information but media is only hitting for 100-200 more healing then what my succor does which isn't much. Plus medica doesn't mitigate damage like succor does. Mitigating 400 damage is alot more important then getting an extra 100-200 heal. Also medica 2 has 50 more cure potency than succor so idk how its healing for double or triple for the initial heal. It puts a hot on the target guess what so does your fairy

I don't get it I guess. I ran on my Bard with a scholar the other day - never had before, cause he was still under 30 and had been whm before. So I had worked mostly with conjurors before as DPS or I was the healer. the scholar did awesome - his healing was definately on par with what mine was at that level. So I guess you want stronger aoe heals... then be a white mage. It seems to me they intended for white mage to be stronger AOE healer.. its not a bad thing that classes are different...if they were all the same playing alts would be boring. I don't mind them making changes to the class, but why make the basically another white mage?

lol what?medica hits for about 850-900 medica 2 heals for triple because, (heres the kicker) its better actual mitigation than succor since it adds a raidwide HoT so you can use it before big damage and combine that with a medica. i can chaincast succor and waste 1500+ mana. your WHMS must be terrible.


Edit: Brody i wish you would read the thread instead of what the first OP said. Nobody here agreed with that. NOBODY people are so just ugh these days. cant read more than a page

AoE healing is indeed sub par. First time I went in turn 2 I brought my SCH and I instantly regretted it. Toward the end the AoE is high and despite spamming Succor, our WHM got OOM having to compensate for my weak AoE. Since then it's been WHM all the way in Turn 2 and it got noticeably easier. It's in fact not a challenge at all with 2 WHM.

Same goes for Titan, I have no idea why people bring SCH and WHM instead of 2 WHM, nothing beats 2 Medica 2s for the stomp. Titan with 2 WHM for AoE healing is easy mode.

Now I'm not saying SCH is bad, I prefer it in Turn 1 and 4 for tank healing even tough they need to just give us all the fucking control on the pet, but this thread is about AoE and yes, SCH AoE is sub par.

This thread is about Aoe.

Let me say it agian.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT AOE

THREAD

THIS

AOE.

lmfao.

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

Idk where you are getting your information but media is only hitting for 100-200 more healing then what my succor does which isn't much. Plus medica doesn't mitigate damage like succor does. Mitigating 400 damage is alot more important then getting an extra 100-200 heal.

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You must'ave either healed alongside with some terrible WHMs, or are terribly misinformed.

Like crescent said, your succor is not healing for 400+ outside of buffs like fey illumination, mantra, or convalescence. Also, medica has literally double succor's healing potency; you do the math.

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Also medica 2 has 50 more cure potency than succor so idk how its healing for double or triple for the initial heal.

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Initial heal is not that much stronger, but just one hot tick later, it healed as much as medica.

Quote:

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It puts a hot on the target guess what so does your fairy

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Have to contend with the pet UI and a one minute recast with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

Idk where you are getting your information but media is only hitting for 100-200 more healing then what my succor does which isn't much. Plus medica doesn't mitigate damage like succor does. Mitigating 400 damage is alot more important then getting an extra 100-200 heal. Also medica 2 has 50 more cure potency than succor so idk how its healing for double or triple for the initial heal. It puts a hot on the target guess what so does your fairy

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The fairy's HoT is wasted whenever she fels like. Dawn more often than not available in key moments. Also the whm regen from medica 2 is much stronger than the fairy HoT.

The fairy HoT also has a 60 sec cd and your group takes aoe spikes much more often than that cd.

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Originally Posted by Celsius

lol what?medica hits for about 850-900 medica 2 heals for triple because, (heres the kicker) its better actual mitigation than succor since it adds a raidwide HoT so you can use it before big damage and combine that with a medica. i can chaincast succor and waste 1500+ mana. your WHMS must be terrible.


Edit: Brody i wish you would read the thread instead of what the first OP said. Nobody here agreed with that. NOBODY people are so just ugh these days. cant read more than a page

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Um apparently you can't read lol cuz a 400 heal plus a 400 bubble from succor is basically a 800 heal again saying what i already said is about on par with whm media. Second you obviously didn't read when i said initial heal is only 50 more cure potency for medica 2 lol. Thirdly scholars have a very good aoe hot heal as well from their fairies.

You guys can stop your fairy from casting the skills. You know this right? So their skills aren't wasted if you stop them from casting it

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

The fairy's HoT is wasted whenever she fels like. Dawn more often than not available in key moments. Also the whm regen from medica 2 is much stronger than the fairy HoT.

The fairy HoT also has a 60 sec cd and your group takes aoe spikes much more often than that cd.

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Idk if you aren't reading the tool tips or not for the spells but medica 2 cure potency for the hot is 100 at 15s the faires is 100 at 21's meaning get this they are the same for the hots :) Oh Let's also not forget that you can use rouse before casting your fairies hot as well as Fey Illumination making the faires hot heal for 60% more for 20s meaning again the faires hot is way better than medica 2.

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

Um apparently you can't read lol cuz a 400 heal plus a 400 bubble from succor is basically a 800 heal again saying what i already said is about on par with whm media. Second you obviously didn't read when i said initial heal is only 50 more cure potency for medica 2 lol. Thirdly scholars have a very good aoe hot heal as well from their fairies.

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Chaincast succor and the shield is irrevant after the first cast.

You can't waste medica outside of overhealing.

You waste succor every time you cast after shield remains on multiple targets.

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Idk if you aren't reading the tool tips or not for the spells but medica 2 cure potency for the hot is 100 at 15s the faires is 100 at 21's meaning get this they are the same for the hots :)

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Do I really need to tell a 50 SCH that the fairy will heal for less than the player even with the same cure potency on the tooltips?

You can read, but it doesn't seem like you play this class.

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Oh Let's also not forget that you can use rouse before casting your fairies hot as well as Fey Illumination making the faires hot heal for 60% more for 20s meaning again the faires hot is way better than medica 2.

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Recast: 1 minute.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fanservice

Chaincast succor and the shield is irrevant after the first cast.



Do I really need to tell a 50 SCH that the fairy will heal for less than the player even with the same cure potency on the tooltips?

You can read, but it doesn't seem like you play this class.



Recast: 1 minute.

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no shit really the fairy heals for less than the caster omg who would of thought. You people aren't getting the point that scholars are just as efficient healers as whm. If you want instant gratification for heals go whm and stop bitching cuz you people obviously can't do simple math and figure it out for yourselves. Let people who know how to keybind and keep their fairy on steady so they don't use skills when they aren't needed, to those with brains. If you think you need 2 whm for anything over a whm and sch because they complement each other, this isn't the game for you lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

no shit really the fairy heals for less than the caster omg who would of thought.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by toussaint89

but medica 2 cure potency for the hot is 100 at 15s the faires is 100 at 21's meaning get this they are the same for the hots :)

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Apparently you're the one that needed to be informed.

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You people aren't getting the point that scholars are just as efficient healers as whm.

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Technically, you're wrong. Each healer has an advantage at something.

SCHs have better MP management.

WHMs AOE heal more than twice as well as SCHs.

Just to name two differences.

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If you want instant gratification for heals go whm and stop bitching cuz you people obviously can't do simple math and figure it out for yourselves. Let people who know how to keybind and keep their fairy on steady so they don't use skills when they aren't needed, to those with brains. If you think you need 2 whm for anything over a whm and sch because they complement each other, this isn't the game for you lol.

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You really can't read into what SCHs actually want, or you'd rather pretend problems don't exist, and I'm tired of pointing people to the same issues again and again.

You're obviously not on the same page as me considering your attempt to put words in my mouth with the "If you think you need 2 whm for anything over a whm and sch because they complement each other" comment. You may as well just say you haven't read anything meaningful in this thread, and you'd rather pretend to know where I'm coming from. You're not worth talking to in either case.

All I need is for me to be able to command the pet while on cooldown.

Maybe, just maybe, make succor 200 instead of 150. But that's as far as I would want it.

Agreed Drakuaza or just a mechanical change.

And fanservice, there is no point in going on with toussaint. she is just like brody. didnt read more than 1 page.

and on that note even worse, because she pretends to know what she is talking about.

sigh.. toussaint do all of us and yourself a favor. dont comment on this thread until you actually read it.

I don't feel like Succor really needs a buff, although I will admit that comparatively, Medica is much much more useful 90% of the time you need an AoE heal. A slight buff is okay, but having played both SCH and WHM at 50 I can say that I feel like SCH is close to being fine. Our only problem: Pet control.

Let us toggle auto-casts on and off and let us activate faerie abilities while we're casting and we will be golden.

Reposting my suggestion for Succor for those that only read first post and assume SCH want that nutty aoe suggestion that op posted.

Succor doesn't need a potency buff, but rather a mechanical change. Succor could remain at its current 150 potency heal/shield and work fine if they did something like the next Succor cast on a target that is shielded (from a succor spell) to consume the shield and add the shield value to the new succor's healing that is being cast. In other words say I cast succor and it heals for 200 and shields for 200, casting another succor on a target that has a succor shield up consumes the shield and adds that 200 point shield to the new succors healing to make it look like 200h/200s -> 400h/200s. That would give us the AoE heal we so desperately need while remain unique and different from a WHM.

Pets fixes like toggles for pets skills, pet macros and (imo) my suggestion for Succor would fix us up w/o making us op.

No, that would make succor too good. Fix pet ui and reduce pet ae heal cd. Precasting succor that turns into medica is better than medica.

After pet is fixed evaluate at that point.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

No, that would make succor too good. Fix pet ui and reduce pet ae heal cd. Precasting succor that turns into medica is better than medica.

After pet is fixed evaluate at that point.

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Whm is currently a better tank healer then sch . So there is zero reason for sch to be so awful at aoe healing. I really don't think a 20 second duration/60second cooldown 66 potency regen will even begin bridge the gap. The faerie heals 33% less then the sch would if the sch had the spell.

2 sch should be able to heal any encounter if 2 whm can also do so. Currently 2 whm can do any encounter (even some encounters easier) 2 sch would never be able complete turn 4 currently due to how awul their aoe hp healing potency is.

They should allow sch to be able to put out 300 potency per gcd to be equal to whm medica some how.
Whether this be via pet ,succor mechanical change or ability interaction.
Then SE could change cure 3 somehow to compensate whm a little.

If any whm disagree that sch should be decent aoe healers. Then certainly you all agree that whm tank healing should nerfed severely? Because sch is a much worse aoe healer why should they also have much lower tank healing potency too? Why should every party always have 1 whm to succeed but the extra sch is optional and the double sch is suicide.

Tank healing in 15 seconds
sch
1200+1800+800 = 3800 potency/4280 with rouse/4560 with fey illumination
5 embrace +3 adlo+2physick
whm.
750 + 3900 = 4650 potency /6045 with divine seal/5625 with prescene of mind
regen ticks + 6 cure2
Whm can pop a mind pot too. Sch faerie is not affected by mind pots

Sch has no niche atm . Whm 30 min duration stoneskin 18% is better for absorption then adlo in certain situations. Whm tank healing is better due to higher base potency and whm shorter potency booster cooldowns. Whm heal more then twice the aoe hp of sch. Sch heal much less hp per mana point and forced to lustrate so they run oom as well.

Another thing to consider is that whm work better with the current battle system. Sch has many "off gcd" that they need to press. But to do so they need to wait 1-1.5seconds between each one. Thus they spend more time doing nothing and need to delay healing more.
E.g faerie gcd is 3 second. To be able to command it sch must not be in any animation at the time. Otherwise the command will not go through. So quite often a sch wastes extra time not healing to try and command the faerie. Aetherflow and lustrate are also equally clunky. SE have said this is working as intended.

I disagree that whm is better tank healer. They could probably buff fairy ae heal a bit. Pets should also be immune to ae damage.

Part of pet fix includes macro able pet abilities, and giving commands while casting, imo

I do think it would be fine to buff succor in the way you describe if they increased the range on cure 3 to a much larger area. My concern is that all healing could be op.

Edit: you did leave off potential damage reduction via ss and healing boost from rouse in your calculation. I'm also curious how lustrate is compared, since it is instant and scales.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I disagree that whm is better tank healer. They could probably buff fairy ae heal a bit. Pets should also be immune to ae damage.

Part of pet fix includes macro able pet abilities, and giving commands while casting, imo

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Whm is mathematically the better tank healer. There is no disagreeing with mathematical facts.Try for yourself as a whm and a sch in coil 4 healing the dreadtank . You will see yourself how superior whm is as a tank healer. How their higher potency means they never fall behind like sch does.

Whm can pop cooldowns and brute force heal times where the tank damage is higher. Sch have much weaker brute force healing options. So once the tank starts needing say 5000 potency every 15 seconds. Sch falls behind because they cant reach that consistently like whm does.

Why would you think they would let us command while casting? Do you not see the massive thread complaining about clunky non-instant offgcd abilties and the fact we cannot use "instant" abilties together. How SE said it is working as intended. Which means we will never be able to do 2 things at once. Commanding faerie is like using 2 off gcd at once. Why would se working as intended and backtrack and let sch be the only class that can do 2 things at once?

Apollo do you think its fair that for double sch alot of encounters are mathematically impossible such as turn 4. But for double whm they can do any encounter fine?

Anyways i want them to give sch 300 potency per gcd . Then they either buff or change cure 3 into something that boosts whm healing. I have invested too much into my whm so i want them to remain best healer lol. But as someone who has done coil as both sch and whm i can see the difference. I have a sch as part of my raid i want them to be buffed so all the responsibility is not always on me since whm tools are better .

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Whm is mathematically the better tank healer. There is no disagreeing with mathematical facts.Try for yourself as a whm and a sch in coil 4 healing the dreadtank . You will see yourself how superior whm is as a tank healer. How their higher potency means they never fall behind like sch does.

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Firstly, are you not using lustrate for tank healing? If not why not? Your math doesn't show all of your tools, and I definitely use lustrate for when I get behind on the tank. Rouse is a CD you can pop along with SS.

Secondly, if SE said they wouldn't let people do 2 things at once, that is BS... since the fairy is part of SCH character and power is split, I would call that a design flaw.

Thirdly, I am not opposed to improving SCH group heals, but the pet control is so awful right now, I think that has to be fixed first, before evaluating further changes. Quite frankly, I really dislike the pet. REALLY dislike it. Im not sure why it doesn't show, but I took your advice and leveled a SCH to 50 and have been playing it in higher end content. My primary gripes are exactly what I expected- total junk for pet control. It's hard to even tell where the class is when half of it is junk.

If you count lustrate you must count benediction too and the fact whm use mind pots way better then sch. Lustrate is a limited tool that once gone has a cooldown before it can used again. Rouse is awful btw. The faerie heals 33% less then sch would with same potency so rouse just brings up to what it should heal in the first place.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If you count lustrate you count benediction too and the fact whm use mind pots way better then sch. Lustrate is a limited tool that once gone has a cooldown before it can used again.

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You should count benediction, imo. It's an important whm tool. The reuse on it, however makes it much more limited than lustrate as a reliable method of healing a tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

You should count benediction, imo. It's an important whm tool. The reuse on it, however makes it much more limited than lustrate as a reliable method of healing a tank.

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Swiftcast cure 2/medica2 is also something whm has over Sch . Who cant use swiftcast to boost their healing as well. The difference between whm and sch tank healing is that sch is forced to use lustrate to keep up due to their much lower healing potency. But the whm is free to save benediction because they wont fall behind in tank healing unless they screw up somehow.

Due to the sch reliance on faerie ai. Who may mess up and heal a random target and not be available for use to heal tank. Sch will have more times where they fall behind/ have lower potency. More opportunities to mess up, also times where they "waste" lustrate. Heaven forbid the faerie dies lol.