Gear level, the final nail in the games coffin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vinta

This isn't a real feature, right? You're lying? Because I'll never get into any content. I refuse to wear gear that takes away the spark of looking like your job that the AF and relic pieces provide.

---

Luckily vanity slots are coming. Someday.

I watched a group do demon wall and beat it in swim wear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

Omg, no thanks. We don't need a bunch of people begging for Coil to be nerfed.

---

Y I canz no run Coil with AF?

I hope the gearscore required will be just a bit above the absolute minimum required to win, not an elitist level like "full darklight and garuda weapon" on titan hm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

I hope the gearscore required will be just a bit above the absolute minimum required to win, not an elitist level like "full darklight and garuda weapon" on titan hm.

---

I'm hoping it will be a bit on the relaxed side. No iLvl 30 gear in level 50 hardmodes but not requiring all ILvl 55 for AK either.

Also I hope fully formed parties can enter in their underwear if they want.

Glad its coming. Too many Dragoons with Lv 49 white Wep joining Garuda HM.

Only reason my 2nd ring and leggings are old'ish is because AK does not want to give them to me. Not seen my heal pants or a ring drop once in all the times I've done it. Bored of farming it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vinta

This isn't a real feature, right? You're lying? Because I'll never get into any content. I refuse to wear gear that takes away the spark of looking like your job that the AF and relic pieces provide.

---

That's what AF2 is for. It's AF but better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

I hope the gearscore required will be just a bit above the absolute minimum required to win, not an elitist level like "full darklight and garuda weapon" on titan hm.

---

It'll probably be

average item level needed for Ifrit: 45
average item level needed for Garuda: 50
average item level needed for Titan: 55
average item level needed for Coil: 60

Am I the only one that wants a compromise between the two extremes?

Not so lax that there is no point in having it to begin with, but no so strict you have to have the best gear acquirable before said dungeon. Something that will yield a decent chance of success (just based on gear).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moochan

Am I the only one that wants a compromise between the two extremes?

Not so lax that there is no point in having it to begin with, but no so strict you have to have the best gear acquirable before said dungeon. Something that will yield a decent chance of success (just based on gear).

---

Reading the thread no, you aren't. Lots of us are hoping for the same and have said as much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

I hope the gearscore required will be just a bit above the absolute minimum required to win, not an elitist level like "full darklight and garuda weapon" on titan hm.

---

Full Darklight and Garuda is not at all "Elite". Especially not on a Legacy server where a large portion of the pop started with all of that stuff. My casual EGLS had 16+ garuda weapons by the time the game went down and many of us had DL pieces. Getting DL now is a joke in comparison. 1.0 you had to speed run a much harder AV in under 17 min, pop the right chests, kill the right mobs and then you would have a CHANCE at 1 piece dropping. So for 1.0 it was somewhat "Elite" but not now. Elite now is AFv2 and Relic +1 anything less is pretty basic. And AF is handed out free of charge and with no difficulty. It should never be considered "endgame" gear, it's "Dress up" gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose.

---

I'd like to know which XI you played. FFXI was one of the most min/maxed, theorycrafted games imaginable. There was an entire thread on BG dedicated to screenshots gimp players, like level 75's in Venerer's rings and NQ Amemet mantle. Later on, you couldn't even get into endgame shells without multiple level 75 characters and Dynamis Xarc clear with the gear to support it.

Get a FC and gear up with your friends that are doing the same.

Quote:

---

players dont seem to understand that there is more to an MMO than just silly shiny farming for "loots brah"

---

There is a lot more than just loot, but without a gear check, what is preventing people from trying to run dungeons naked? No amount of skill will help in that situation and it would just be a waste of everyone's time. Computers can't check for something as subjective as skill, so instead we get, "if you have cleared X content enough times to get Y gear, you SHOULD be able to do Z dungeon successfully". That's about all you are going get from a computer program. The people wanting a certain gearscore are just too lazy to subjectively evaluate people's skill, so they are using the computers objective way to do it.

I don't know why gearscores are always seen as a bad thing that prevents players from doing content.
I love gearscores. It gives me an idea of what I should be wearing into an instance so I'm not a burden to my team.

It also helps gauge the skill of your party. It's not being elitist to expect people to play their classes well. In this game you can switch class whenever you want, so of course someone who is a great healer could be a sub-par tank and need to get better at it.
With gearscore you can't use the excuse "I'm undergeared so I couldn't do it"
Unless YOU personally are an awful player and have to use being undergeared as an excuse, you should embrace gearscore. It makes everyone's instance experience easier.

And for people saying 'i hope it's not a ridiculously high score' Any game I've played that had a minimum req to enter the dungeon was more than fair, you could generally get in with quest gear and maybe have to buy/craft/run a lower level instance an accessory or two.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SIXTYONESIX

I'd like to know which XI you played. FFXI was one of the most min/maxed, theorycrafted games imaginable. There was an entire thread on BG dedicated to screenshots gimp players, like level 75's in Venerer's rings and NQ Amemet mantle. Later on, you couldn't even get into endgame shells without multiple level 75 characters and Dynamis Xarc clear with the gear to support it.

Get a FC and gear up with your friends that are doing the same.

---

I have to agree here, XI was brutal. Groups threw you out if you had piece of gear that they didn't like. You generally had to farm for 2-3 days for a few pieces of gear then you would out level it the next day in pt, an back to grinding again. Gear reqs are something yoshi placed in to keep the wow fanatics happy I think. because it destroys community an creates a really nasty atmosphere for everyone in general. When you have groups of young teens screaming hate an abuse at anyone they feel doesn't measure up.

I don't see this as a bad thing. If you're equipment is too weak to allow for success, it's best to prevent that player from using the Duty Finder and basically ruining the run for the other 3 players.

I really hate the "Skill can make up for gear" mindset some people have. Part of being good at your job is gearing up. If you can get better gear with a fairly minimum amount of effort and you don't then you're being inconsiderate to the rest of the people you're playing with. It's not hard to get stuff better than your AF. Run some easy WP a few times and gear up a little before going to AK. Do AK for a bit before doing HM primals. It's not that much to ask. I've never seen anyone give anyone any crap for not having full sets of HQ quadmelded ilvl 70 crafting gear or anything. It's jerks who go into HM titans with AF and level 40 rings and whatnot.

Just be considerate for your party by not wasting their time or forcing them to work harder because you didn't want to take a bit of time gearing up a little. Gear score is a good thing, because it at least works to enforce that a bit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miburo

I really hate the "Skill can make up for gear" mindset some people have. Part of being good at your job is gearing up. If you can get better gear with a fairly minimum amount of effort and you don't then you're being inconsiderate to the rest of the people you're playing with. It's not hard to get stuff better than your AF. Run some easy WP a few times and gear up a little before going to AK. Do AK for a bit before doing HM primals. It's not that much to ask. I've never seen anyone give anyone any crap for not having full sets of HQ quadmelded ilvl 70 crafting gear or anything. It's jerks who go into HM titans with AF and level 40 rings and whatnot.

Just be considerate for your party by not wasting their time or forcing them to work harder because you didn't want to take a bit of time gearing up a little. Gear score is a good thing, because it at least works to enforce that a bit.

---

This is the is the mindset I am talking about. players dont seem to understand that there is more to an MMO than just silly shiny farming for "loots brah".... :( it really is sad that this ideal has taken hold so much in todays generation of gamers. You dont "need" shinys at the best level to be able to play a computer game well. This idea is just something the gearscore fanatics push out because they are the incorrect assumption that you must have it at all costs.
I highly recommend people do not be forced into the endless grind for shinys an doin the same instances over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over.... endlessly as these guys do every day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TasOgie

This is the is the mindset I am talking about. players dont seem to understand that there is more to an MMO than just silly shiny farming for "loots brah".... :( it really is sad that this ideal has taken hold so much in todays generation of gamers. You dont "need" shinys at the best level to be able to play a computer game well. This idea is just something the gearscore fanatics push out because they are the incorrect assumption that you must have it at all costs.
I highly recommend people do not be forced into the endless grind for shinys an doin the same instances over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over.... endlessly as these guys do every day.

---

You're gunna need those "loots brah" to participate coming with 2.1 so have fun sitting on the sidelines if you aren't willing to work on your lowest gear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slambo

You're gunna need those "loots brah" to participate coming with 2.1 so have fun sitting on the sidelines if you aren't willing to work on your lowest gear.

---

As a Healer I do quite well for myself thanks, an I dont need to kiss arse to every 14 year old wanna be hardman who thinks having shinys is the be all of gaming.Dungeon farming is the bottom of ther barrel in gaming an I dont do it unless I absolutely have to. SO it is irrelevant what the latest shiny farm is.

Nothing changed about the game. We just will gain access to a number that we couldn't see before. The end result is we get not shitty Duty Finder matching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

---

I don't know what server you were on, but unless I was doing something with my LS and our partner LS, a lot of us had this happen to us everyday. In fact, the only thing that really saved FFXI from the elitist atmosphere was Abyssea because at that point, all the uber gear became worthless and by the time you reached 99, pretty much everyone was wearing the same outfit (because getting it was not hard, just time consuming). Prior to that, however, I remember being kicked from a Qufim party because I still had on my rank gear (level 10 conquest point exchange), and I was the damn healer in a grind party. And this wasn't something recent, this was before ToAU. Nowadays, you can get away with doing a book burn with no subjob wearing RSE until you max out. I loved FFXI, but I met more jackasses there then I have here. At least in FFXIV, you can pretty much do everything alone and when you are forced into an instance with a group, going with people you know makes it more fun. I have yet to meet a stranger who checks my gear and asks me to leave and maybe that's because when using duty finder, you're just grateful you got a group in under an hour and don't feel like waiting again.

The thing to remember is that there is a difference between what ilv gear is needed to complete the dung, and the ilv gear that many players thing is needed. Both supper elitest and bad players will put the number significantly higher than it should be (one because they want to face roll stuff they done many times, and the others because they couldnt do it with ilv X so needs to be higher)

I would not expect crazy high ilv requirements, and actually expect the elite to be unhappy with the number and still refuse to use the DF, but atleast they get server LFG boards for that hopefully

Wouldn't the most fair solution be to let people access any dungeon, but have the Duty Finder match them with the players closest to their own item level? I don't see how anyone could complain about that.

While I agree some people take stuff too far and get too elitist (asking for way higher than is necessary to down the content), its a good thing overall.

This game is unique in that its entirely possible to level up every job with one character, and not everyone is going to gear up while leveling new classes.

Hopping into the Duty Finder with nothing but white gear 20-30 levels below what you should have is absurdly destructive for everyone else involved, and there's no way to votekick those people so there is literally no recourse other than leaving and getting punished with a timer yourself, or carrying that person and rewarding their awfulness.

I'd like to see FATE exp nerfed a little and battle leve and dungeon exp increased so people have more incentive to not just follow around a zerg of hundreds of players that they don't have to try and not be in starter gear all the way to level cap instead of a gearscore requirement, but this is the world we live in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TasOgie

This is the is the mindset I am talking about. players dont seem to understand that there is more to an MMO than just silly shiny farming for "loots brah".... :( it really is sad that this ideal has taken hold so much in todays generation of gamers. You dont "need" shinys at the best level to be able to play a computer game well. This idea is just something the gearscore fanatics push out because they are the incorrect assumption that you must have it at all costs.
I highly recommend people do not be forced into the endless grind for shinys an doin the same instances over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over.... endlessly as these guys do every day.

---

Being considerate to other people in your party doesn't make you a "loot brah" or whatever. If you go into a fight under geared then you're not respecting the other players in your party, plain and simple. You don't care about their time. You don't care about the extra burden you're placing on them. Etc. Your damage, the amount of damage you can take and survive, your healing potency, etc. are determined by stats. Stats come from gear. If you have better stats you perform better, period. You'll do better in AK wearing ilvl 50 gear than you would wearing ilvl 38 gear. Because...maths. If you could get better gear without too much trouble and choose not to then you're being inconsiderate. It's not a hard concept to grasp, and there is nothing sad about it except for maybe the fact that so many people don't seem to care about inconveniencing the other people they're playing with.

Come on guys, we all know that Gear = Skill. It's just simple math. Duh!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

Come on guys, we all know that Gear = Skill. It's just simple math. Duh!

---

Did ANYONE say that in this thread? Anything even close to that?

Can you do HM titan with everyone wearing weathered weapons and level one RSE? And if you can (You can't) then can you do it more easily fully geared for the fight? Gear matters. The better your gear the better you'll preform, since your personal skill is a constant. So yeah, it is simple math. Duh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

We understand that some of you have some concerns regarding the item level restrictions for content; however, the development team is aware that there are players who are trying to challenge high level content without the proper amount of attack and defense, and would like to ensure that everyone participating in the content is on the same level.

Just to reiterate, this adjustment will be made in patch 2.1, and your average item level will be displayed in your character window. To coincide with this, we will also be adding a display for the required item level in the Duty Finder.

---

To people who are confused; this is a good thing. The method of progression becomes more clear and people should no longer have to suffer the cruel judgement of others for not meeting their requirements, and are thusly booted. In accordance with this, of course, organized groups will also no longer need to suffer undergeared people. Win/win.

It also sets apart the bad players from the good ones. At least in a small way.

Every time I run Amdapor Keep or Wanderer's Palace and get DPS or Healers that are well below the gear-level and skill-level that they need to be, I just wanna cry. Those runs are usually doomed to failure. I'd much rather have a gear-ladder for lowbies to climb before they start getting placed in groups with me.

Given, a baddie in good gear is still a baddie, they're still better than a baddie in bad gear. With content scaling in difficulty, you should expect to need better-geared players to beat it. I just can't understand why people are so offended that gear isn't just for aesthetics.

as I've said before, its not too big a deal as long as the limit isn't set too high. You don't need anything special to beat titan, so the gear level for that can be 45 or 50 (or maybe slightly less because most people's accessories will bring down the level average), then 55 for garuda, then 60 for titan (e.g. all gear > level of AF)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Camate

Hello,

We understand that some of you have some concerns regarding the item level restrictions for content

---

Any word on if this will effect non duty finder groups? AKA free companies who are well aware of their players proper attack and defence scores and sucsess rate without the need to have a nanny system tell us we can't go inside because Johny doesn't have a darklight ring?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vinta

This isn't a real feature, right? You're lying? Because I'll never get into any content. I refuse to wear gear that takes away the spark of looking like your job that the AF and relic pieces provide.

---

You're free to run around Gridania looking like a pretty butterfly. But I wouldn't want you anywhere near my party with that attitude, so I'm happy the duty finder will filter you out from the get go.

Edit:
When are the vanity items coming?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TasOgie

This is the is the mindset I am talking about. players dont seem to understand that there is more to an MMO than just silly shiny farming for "loots brah".... :( it really is sad that this ideal has taken hold so much in todays generation of gamers. You dont "need" shinys at the best level to be able to play a computer game well. This idea is just something the gearscore fanatics push out because they are the incorrect assumption that you must have it at all costs.
I highly recommend people do not be forced into the endless grind for shinys an doin the same instances over an over an over an over an over an over an over an over.... endlessly as these guys do every day.

---

If it was a pure skill based game, where everyone was equal, you'd have a point. But RPGs are numbers games. No matter how good you are, if you use poor tools you aren't doing as well as you could be. This even applies in real life. No matter how good you are, if something will one shot you unless you have x amount of HP, you die. If you don't have high enough level gear to reach a certain DPS value, your group does not beat the DPS check fight. That's just how it works. Skill can only do so much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Swishytail

I'd prefer it not to be in Duty Finder. This game will go WoW very fast because people will complain and complain until Coil is
nerfed into oblivion. I'd prefer to keep the hard content hard.

---

Wow does not nerf their content because people complain, they nerf when they feel like enough of the bleeding edge hardcore players have cleared content and not enough casuals have, typically right before a new raid is to be released, it has nothing to do with complaints. Dragon Soul was not nerfed until right before Mists of Pandaria launched. in the last Live letter Mr. Yoshida stated the older content would be made easier as time progressed and new content was released. This is a staple of the industry and ensures the most subscribers.
Also LFR had nothing to do with the nerfing of content, it was always meant as a stepping stone to the real raid and as a tool for casuals to see and learn content before they stepped into the real raid, which is why gear from lfr was weaker than normal mode and heroic mode. duty finder does not have easier versions of the content so your hard content will remain hard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

Any word on if this will effect non duty finder groups? AKA free companies who are well aware of their players proper attack and defence scores and sucsess rate without the need to have a nanny system tell us we can't go inside because Johny doesn't have a darklight ring?

---

That is the only thing that worries me about this it should only affect duty finder and not pre-made groups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mkilbride

people will be even more elitist.

FFXI was my favorite MMORPG, and yes, I know this isn't XI, and everyone here hates XI, but I'd liked how in XI, in those end-game raids and the like, people didn't complain about your gear. They just had fun doign it, win or lose. I'd like to at least get XI's awesome community back.

Changes like this prevent a good community from forming.

---

I played Xi too, i remember people being extremely elitist about only wanting certain jobs with certain pieces of gear and specific subjobs or you did not get to play.

This is not ruining the game, players being too lazy to actually update their gear so they do not get killed in one hit when trying to tank or dps in a primal fight are ruining this game. Fact remains, this is a feature that should have been implemented from the get go to avoid anyone getting into an instance and holding their teammates back instead of being a supporting player carrying their own weight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

Any word on if this will effect non duty finder groups? AKA free companies who are well aware of their players proper attack and defence scores and sucsess rate without the need to have a nanny system tell us we can't go inside because Johny doesn't have a darklight ring?

---

Obviously it won't. The duty finder already ignores the 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DD rule if you're queueing with a full group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HunkyJimpjorps

Obviously it won't. The duty finder already ignores the 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 DD rule if you're queueing with a full group.

---

I wouldn't say it obviously won't, as the duty finder doesn't ignore e.g. level requirements or storyline requirements. I hope it won't enforce item level with premade groups, but I have a sneaking suspicion it will. At this point, we'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alhanelem

as I've said before, its not too big a deal as long as the limit isn't set too high. You don't need anything special to beat titan, so the gear level for that can be 45 or 50 (or maybe slightly less because most people's accessories will bring down the level average), then 55 for garuda, then 60 for titan (e.g. all gear > level of AF)

---

The item level for Titan better not be 60. There's no way I'm going out and spending weeks of my life farming 11 pieces of 60+ gear just so I can do ONE fight to get my Relic weapon, and then proceed to never use the level 60+ armor again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vinta

The item level for Titan better not be 60. There's no way I'm going out and spending weeks of my life farming 11 pieces of 60+ gear just so I can do ONE fight to get my Relic weapon, and then proceed to never use the level 60+ armor again.

---

What? You aren't going to do bahamut's coil or any content in 2.1? Selling account or quitting after your relic?