Online Bullying - A Dev request for a response and discussion

Even if you're not personally bothered by people being jerks to you, is this really the kind of community we want to tolerate? Community is important to an online game and I'd rather not see ARR become another cesspit like WoW or most F2P MMOs.

Companies can easily provide tools to deal with people like this or simply ban them for 2 weeks.
They won't quit the game since they probably like it.

It's just means that they have to put effort into it and spend some resources.
It's cheaper to tell everybody to get a thick skin and ignore the problem.


Personally I mind these people less, it's just an instant ignore and done.
That or a good cheap laugh at a raging kiddo.

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Originally Posted by mikoto_qc

It's not about that at all. We are paying for this game. Im not paying to get insulted by real low self-esteem player. If we allowed this @ some points into what this community is going to be? When you place rule about respect there is no place for any kind of bully.

Respect call respect.

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well you can always send a email with screen shots or try the support center for time being

Forlove of god... Whats wrong with people today, does it really bother you so much? It should bother you even more knowing that little kid got to you so much you made this post...... Tere is blacklist in game that helps to prevent this behavior - think of it like knoking somebody out if that was in real life. Online bulling is very very serious issue and you brought it down to the game chat because you are butthurt. Online bulling is real harrasment that affects your life like posting stupid picture of you on facebook or create fb account in your name in order to harras you... Or photoshop your picture... There are many ways but thinking of game chat as online bulling makes me laugh, sorry if im to much of ignorant to understand you on this, maybe its just me being immune to childish behavior in games chat.

You know what would be an interesting experiment, putting all those that abuse other players like what was shown in the OP, and those that are only saying get a thicker skin, deal with it, and etc. all into a single server/duty finder group. I think it would be interesting to see how many of those saying just need to get a thicker skin would actually enjoy playing with those players all the time.

Really, this whole thread is about trying to keep said incidents rare instead of becoming common place. If it is not taken care of now while the community is being established, it will become very hard to get rid of it. It is not about whether or not people can deal with said incidents, but trying to keep them from happening in the first place.

The more vitriolic the established community becomes, the more it is going to hurt continued subscriptions as people deal with it by avoiding the game all together. After all, why pay to play a game where one can get more hate spewed at them than in real life? Forget about it being if the one guy on the receiving end was doing good or bad, look at the larger picture and how it can impact everyone in the game.

That must have been a lovely experience...

I'd have just left the DF, waited on the cooldown and re-queued.

Come on now. You don't get to deal with them all the time. There is big difference between dealing with one turd per day and deal with them all the time. Personally, I have not met yet person like OP did in FF XIV, everybody is kind, some people are making stupid jokes sometimes but not a big deal. I understand problem very well from WoW and I see how annoying it can get but I never really thought about it like I was bullied lol... I mean come on... it's some guy somewhere in the world that have such a low self esteem that he need to unload his anger on you... I don't see why would anybody feel bad about opinion of such a person and if he annoys you - ignore. I'm sorry I rushed with judgment I guess I can see how some people can be upset by that but I still wouldn't reduce "online bulling" problem to level of game chat.

If someone is making someone else uncomfortable or upset via chat that's enough for me to think they should be reported. End of discussion, seriously.

Part of me is appalled by the attitude of that guy, I assume he is a child though based on what he is saying.

That being said if you are silly enough to sit there through his abuse then more fool you, the instance someone starts on me is when I leave the party these days, because you know its not going anywhere good.

If everyone left in those situations, abusive players wouldn't be able to complete anything and would soon learn to behave.

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Originally Posted by Somi

It's the internet, people are dicks. Enforcing anything will just make it worse.

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Actually this is what GM jail is for. The one and only time I saw this happen in FFXI a GM came and threw them in jail for 3 days. This is not acceptable regardless of age, gender, nationality or any other excuse someone wants to make. Report them! Do not let them ruin this community like so many other mmos out there.

Anyone who played in FFXI remembers how enjoyable the community was and knew that the GMs reviewed each and every complaint about harassment or situations like whatever this idiot thought he was doing (can't quite think of a name for that level of idiocy). The game is still new but I for one hope that they will follow those same lines as before. It was the best community to be a part of in any of the many MMOs I played. I stopped playing WoW for 3 years because of the awful people in that game along with many others I knew. Thick skin does nothing but lets them get away with acting any way they choose. It teaches them nothing. Report and be done with it. :)

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Originally Posted by homunyan

Even if you're not personally bothered by people being jerks to you, is this really the kind of community we want to tolerate? Community is important to an online game and I'd rather not see ARR become another cesspit like WoW or most F2P MMOs.

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The concept of communal interaction is beyond these people. They are primarily concerned with only one person: themselves.

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Originally Posted by Morganna

Actually this is what GM jail is for. The one and only time I saw this happen in FFXI a GM came and threw them in jail for 3 days. This is not acceptable regardless of age, gender, nationality or any other excuse someone wants to make. Report them! Do not let them ruin this community like so many other mmos out there.

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I agree with this. There are records kept of the chat logs, but GMs can't act unless it's brought to their attention(there's a lot of text) Reporting a player properly will give the GMs what to look for and act accordingly.

Also, make sure what you are reporting is an act against the rules and guidelines.

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Originally Posted by BrainWoodstock

God, i miss the time where i could say that someone is bad, because he is bad, without them beeing butthurt. Soak it up, grow up or do something else.

I never even met such a person in duty finder, i really think you are totally overreacting as 95 % of the online community. And such playser are mostly really young ones that just dont know better, when they grow up they will learn it.

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I feel sorry for your children.

Actually acting upon it is not making it worse.
Going to take WOW and my EU experience.

- Saying N*gger in WOW pretty much results in a 2 week ban or perma ban, or any other racial slurs.
- Vocal harassment same deal.
- You can just joke around in G chat in any type of way , if no one reports it no problem.

Not saying the WOW community is all that awesome but in general you see a lot less trash there than in this game.
They know what happens when you do it and Blizzard does tend to act harsh.

Don't get me wrong it doesn't change how people think , they will still tell you that you suck and leave which is fine.
That's not an heavy insult and well in that case it just happens, deal with it.
But most understand where the line is and crossing it means 2 weeks of not being able to play.

In the end the form of harassing changes from vulgar to obnoxious raging to a more tuned down way of expressing them selves.


It will work here as well since it's the same people, this community right here is as good/bad as WOW/LOL/SWTOR/Tera.
Enforcing rules works, making duty finder shard only works as well since behaving like a prick will have more consequences


It doesn't solve the problem but it is a lot better than this.

I'm sure SE is monitoring the situation so report away! Right now they have a lot of issues and are working they're way through them in a way that gives me confidence. First the server log in issue, now they're tackling RMTs...

Report people who harass you. Likely one day they will wake up and their account will be gone.

Cross server is the worst! I'd rather the community stay on each server. And players have to create their own groups. As soon as Cross server functions are part of the game the player does not need to worry about their reputation being soiled because as soon as they are out of the dungeon it doesnt matter. Back in the old days, you had to play nice or else you would not be invited anymore. I think as soon as cross server partying entered into the MMO's it caused all of this bad behavior.

I don't like people who have superiority complex.
They think they're above you and good at everything, to me they're the lowest. Adding racism and derogatory comments to what they say makes them even lower than dirt.

Report them to the GM police! Report, report, report

There is a big difference between notifying a player that he is doing a bad job and maybe telling him how to fix it and just calling him names for your random amusement and low self esteem that needs to be filled someway.
It's clearly harrassment and needs to be notified to a GM. Next time don't even bother hiding the names. The more people know them the better.

As far as publishing the names, that's not a great idea. First off, names are not unique across worlds, so you would need to include that info somehow. Those screen shots don't show that.

Second, you need to know and trust the person making the claim online. In forums of this size there are too many readers who will have to take all reports on faith, and that opens it up to abuse. Also, reporting names could quickly escalate to false claims and retaliations with doctored screen shots, and breaking forum rules on all sides.

Within players' circles of friends, sure it's going to be discussed. Everyone knows everyone else and has reasons to trust the accusers. Really, only SE has actionable proof of who is who, and who said what (or at least what accounts did and when). It's best to report it to a GM and let them review the logs and determine the action to take.

...Saying the n word in final fantasy. It feels so out of place. If you are frustrated go punch a pillow but don't unleash your anger against other people who are just looking to play their game and have fun.

So I was bored and decided to try and calculate all of the "likes" for substantial arguments people gave, regarding each side of the coin.
I reached up to page 10 of this thread, and thought theres more than enough to justify what is/isn't appropriate.
I excluded any comments that were just one-liners, or jabs that were not significant, and found in the first ten pages alone,

People who approve of bullying: 62
People who do not approve, and want measures taken: 847
People who turned blind eye (aka "ignore, thats life" etc) 35

Clearly that tells you this level of harassment is not appropriate, nor is it the norm, and I hope, will not be allowed. I will do my part and report it anytime I see it whether or not I am involved in the conversation. I hope those 847 (and more in several more pages) will do the same :)

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Originally Posted by Somi

It's the internet, people are dicks. Enforcing anything will just make it worse.

Just don't be hurt by it and move on. Enjoy the nice people, it's just like real life, because it's the same people, except they feel safer in saying what they think.

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Doing nothing bullying on the net is just as bad as being in rl... There has been people committing suicide because of online bullying. Not all people can take it. The reason people do it is because no one is doing anything about it. If you have consequences then there be less of it.

It will be less of it once people don't have free play on the game because most of them are on free time till it runs out... But it does need to be stopped. They need a report button and people reporting them on the forums and gms need to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Iolair_Silverwing

So I was bored and decided to try and calculate all of the "likes" for substantial arguments people gave, regarding each side of the coin.
I reached up to page 10 of this thread, and thought theres more than enough to justify what is/isn't appropriate.
I excluded any comments that were just one-liners, or jabs that were not significant, and found in the first ten pages alone,

People who approve of bullying: 62
People who do not approve, and want measures taken: 847
People who turned blind eye (aka "ignore, thats life" etc) 35

Clearly that tells you this level of harassment is not appropriate, nor is it the norm, and I hope, will not be allowed. I will do my part and report it anytime I see it whether or not I am involved in the conversation. I hope those 847 (and more in several more pages) will do the same :)

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I totally agree with you and I to will do the same and stand up for the people who are being bullied.

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Originally Posted by Rakashu

dude, there's blacklist for a reason and you can easily just leave a dungeon if people are giving you a problem. There's no need for the community to take action, people need to take responsibility for them selves.

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It's not effecting me so therefore it is not an issue syndrome has got to stop. The truth of the matter is that bullying is an issue. It is an issue in game and out of game and it has major effects on the person and the community. Ignoring it, whether it is directed at you or someone else, gives permission for it to continue. If you see it happening, call the person out. If it is happening to you, call the person out on it. Remaining silent and growing thick skin is not going to solve the problems bullying creates for the community.

To be fair it's not up to the players to sort this, in fact you can't solve it.
As malicious as people can act, in the end most will still play by the rules.
Simply because they don't like the consequences.


SE makes it clear, they don't want you to behave like this.
BUT they aren't doing much if not anything about it when people do this.
Thus it's tolerated by SE and you have no leg to stand on.
You can harass people in A realm reborn simple as that.


There are solutions for this, some have been brought up with Yoshi.
His response is 'leave or ignore'.

Which means he puts the responsibility on you instead of taking it as a company.
Mean while you/me and any one else can pretty much say what ever they want.
Since if you don't leave or ignore it is your own fault.

It's just how it is.

Personally I find it interesting how most publishers seem to draw their hands away from any form of morals/social norms.
They try to be as neutral/political as possible when it comes to it.
How ever if the majority of a community is acting up (think of leauge of legends/xbox/Cot) isn't that behaviour just not the new social norm?

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

To be fair it's not up to the players to sort this, in fact you can't solve it.

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Is that all you have to say? The righteous people aren't just going to sit by and watch while others get bullied and berated in front of them, sorry but i disagree with you.

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Originally Posted by Eunjio

Is that all you have to say? The righteous people aren't just going to sit by and watch while others get bullied and berated in front of them, sorry but i disagree with you.

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Before you agree/disagree you should read the post calmly.
Would be welcome if you would explain why you think I'm basically wrong with this post.

I'm in general just being realistic and I welcome to discuss this.
Though than I ask you to read the whole thing and not snip one sentence out and make a statement.

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

Before you agree/disagree you should read the post calmly.
Would be welcome if you would explain why you think I'm basically wrong with this post.

I'm in general just being realistic and I welcome to discuss this.
Though than I ask you to read the whole thing and not snip one sentence out and make a statement.

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Ive read from beginning to end, Its not about you being wrong, I disagree for that fact of disagreeing upon what you said. You state Yoshi told us to "leave it or ignore it" and its our responsibility. Even though you say your being realistic, so am I, I only snipped one sentence out to make a statement, because what you said was quite vague. There are going to be some people who are just going to leave it and/or ignore it, but most people arent going to turn a blind eye to bullying.

I will never hesitate to tell someone they flat-out suck. I'll be mean about it, too, if it gets my point across. However, what we see in the OP's thread is so over-the-top and it's just far beyond what's considered acceptable.

Its like a never endin battle :-D

Sometimes I really cannot stand the NA community.

How hard is it, really, to act like your momma raised you with some sense? Is being courteous or compassionate really such a hard life skill to master? Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

Online words from strangers are scary. Please give me my bottle.

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Originally Posted by geetarkev

Online words from strangers are scary. Please give me my bottle.

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Abusive behavior being held accountable by reporting isn't immaturity. Informing SE of harrassment helps the community both in the server and out through the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by crisu

snip...There are many ways but thinking of game chat as online bulling makes me laugh...snip

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Yeah, because using racial slurs and telling someone to kill themselves isn't bullying. >.> You don't know what that other person is going through in real life, and you can't use the simple remedy of just ignore it and move on. Every person is different and you don't know how this can affect them. But hey, by all means, if people want to be whats wrong with the world and don't give a fuck, that's their choice. Someday they are going to meet the wrong person in real life and say the wrong thing, and they deserve what comes next imo. But it is against the TOS of the game, so if these ass hats get banned they have only themselves to blame and I have no compassion for them whatsoever.

For those of you on the fence on the subject or are under the mindset of "just get over it" I would like to share something with you.

http://support.na.square-enix.com/fa...la=1&kid=68216

The above post is a Prohibited Activities page from the SE Support Page and outlines what players can/should and can't/shouldn't do in game. Using abusive language like the OP's linked picture or going into a dungeon simply to troll a group or ANYTHING that is intentionally done to hinder or have a negative impact on the enjoyment of the game for another player is strictly prohibited and the players who partake of such activities regardless of upbringing should be reported. We are a community and negative behavior affects us in one form or another and to be honest I don't want to have to deal with a player who uses abusive language or tries to negatively impact my game play, especially when I have young children who like to watch.

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Ive read from beginning to end, Its not about you being wrong, I disagree for that fact of disagreeing upon what you said. You state Yoshi told us to "leave it or ignore it" and its our responsibility. Even though you say your being realistic, so am I, I only snipped one sentence out to make a statement, because what you said was quite vague. There are going to be some people who are just going to leave it and/or ignore it, but most people arent going to turn a blind eye to bullying.

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I never considered my post to be vague, though it's more neutral.


The point is that you can't do anything as long as SE is not bringing out the ban hammer ,other than ignoring or leaving.
Even if you try to social police some one in a 4-8 man run, if the person doesn't care he will continue to flame.
If he feels like pulling the boss and wiping you SE GM's will not act either.

Reporting every one is an option, but if Yoshi P sticks to what he said than nothing changes.
Which brings me to that you are responsible


- You don't have to pug
- You don't have to stay
- You got a black list.

But he basically says ' it's up to you' instead of ' we will ban you for this behaviour'
I don't like it but well these are the rules SE set, he gives people that flame a free ticket.


The other part of the post is just how I look at it in general.
When I end up in a group where 6 out of 8 behave like this that I'm in the minority.
Thus for this group my 'social norms' which are pretty much to be polite are odd and out of place.

You could say 'but this is normal' but no they aren't , you just consider them to be.
I do but not every one does.



Besides It's just well the internet lots of people turn into jackasses because they are anonymous , just like it's an easy way to vent out your frustration/stress on others.

Hello everyone,

I'd like to remind everyone to please refrain from making inflammatory comments towards others and off topic discussions. Such language and actions are considered a violation of the forum guidelines, and can result in the termination of your account.

Remember, everyone is entitled to their opinion. There is no need to make inflammatory comments towards other members that have opposing or different points of views or opinions. The same goes for those who feel the need to defend themselves against such comments, which is needless and futile. Such behavior is not constructive and only clutters the thread. If you have a problem with a post, please place the player on your ignore list and report the post if necessary.

Thank you.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

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Originally Posted by Sneakaboo

I never considered my post to be vague, though it's more neutral.


The point is that you can't do anything as long as SE is not bringing out the ban hammer ,other than ignoring or leaving.
Even if you try to social police some one in a 4-8 man run, if the person doesn't care he will continue to flame.
If he feels like pulling the boss and wiping you SE GM's will not act either.

Reporting every one is an option, but if Yoshi P sticks to what he said than nothing changes.
Which brings me to that you are responsible


- You don't have to pug
- You don't have to stay
- You got a black list.

But he basically says ' it's up to you' instead of ' we will ban you for this behaviour'


The other part of the post is just how I look at it in general.
When I end up in a group where 6 out of 8 behave like this that I'm in the minority.
Thus for this group my 'social norms' which are pretty much to be polite is odd are out of place.

You could say 'but this is normal' but no they aren't , you just consider them to be,



Besides It's just well the internet lots of people turn into jackasses because they are anonymous , just like it's an easy way to vent out your frustration/stress on others.

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I don't follow what you are basing your position on, it has been mentioned that the behavior in question is against the terms of service, which makes it grounds for the banhammer. Which statement by Yoshi P has lead you to believe otherwise?

edit: or are we actually talking about different behaviors? i'm referring to the verbal behavior seen in that twitter picture.

I run into more tools than bullies.

Tools are the people who 1) Howl over a single mistake because they expect perfection 2) Expect a wipe based off of party composition because there's only one winning strategy for the fight. 3) The one's who purposely throw the fight the minute you tell them that they are wrong about something.

While not directly abusive, they are the biggest inhibitors to party play.

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Originally Posted by Aver

How hard is it, really, to act like your momma raised you with some sense? Is being courteous or compassionate really such a hard life skill to master? Y'all should be ashamed of yourselves.

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It's very obvious, even outside of gaming, that too many 'mommas' out there aren't teaching their children anything remotely similar to courtesy, compassion or respect. They sit them in front of a T.V. or computer and don't bother with them. On the other side, too many kids are being coddled into soft people who don't have the tools to cope with the difficulties that will arise in life. Too much on either extreme and not enough in the middle.