(Un)Official Arcanist/Summmoner Feedback Thread

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Everyone is completely missing Kevee's point too, btw.

The point is, there has been no change to bane. It works exactly as it has worked before. This is a tooltip change.

So stop raging everywhere. You're making us look bad. You are just as effective as you were last week.

My argument was there is no reason to cap our bane, because it would just put us on equal footing with BLM (which, admittedly, does have the best sustained aoe bar none).

But obviously the devs think otherwise.

Oh well.

Guess you'll have to put your DL gear on your BLM if you want to speedrun WP faster, until the inevitable WP nerf.

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You get what I was referring to. BLM can sustain and do aoe dmg faster than a SMN. This is the reason they are preferred to do dungeon speed runs or any other type of speed runs.

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Originally Posted by HamHam

You get what I was referring to. BLM can sustain and do aoe dmg faster than a SMN. This is the reason they are preferred to do dungeon speed runs or any other type of speed runs.

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No, BLM is only preferred for 8 minute WPSR. Only when there's consistently 5+ targets. A well-geared run with SMN/BRD will only take 10-11 minutes, and that's because with a SMN you can skip the same trash pack as BLM due to Tri-Disaster.

Everywhere else, SMN is, or should be, preferred. You don't generally see 5+ target pulls elsewhere, because you either use cannons, or do death-runs. If people are preferring BLM right now, it's just because of the WP hype. It's the same thing affecting WARs right now--With their negative hype. They can function just fine in, relatively, all content. The only 2 things they are absolutely barred from is 8-10 minute WPSR and Turn 5. If you ask the community, though, they're **** and should never be used.

The cap on bane is unnecessary, especially considering bane requires an aetherflow stack. A blm can do good st and ae damage, but we’re limited to primarily st damage. I don’t think we should be better at ae than a blm, but removing the cap from bane wouldn’t put us over the top while still making us more viable in situations requiring ae damage (speed runs, turn 4, etc.)

And all that said, it really would’ve been nice to know there was a cap in the first place. I’ve been raging at bane ever since I hit 50, thinking that the reason it wasn’t hitting all my targets was because of a ridiculously small radius or because I was misusing it somehow.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

No, BLM is only preferred for 8 minute WPSR. Only when there's consistently 5+ targets. A well-geared run with SMN/BRD will only take 10-11 minutes, and that's because with a SMN you can skip the same trash pack as BLM due to Tri-Disaster.

Everywhere else, SMN is, or should be, preferred. You don't generally see 5+ target pulls elsewhere, because you either use cannons, or do death-runs. If people are preferring BLM right now, it's just because of the WP hype. It's the same thing affecting WARs right now--With their negative hype. They can function just fine in, relatively, all content. The only 2 things they are absolutely barred from is 8-10 minute WPSR and Turn 5. If you ask the community, though, they're **** and should never be used.

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As for Tri-Disaster, it can be in part with sleep to hold the mobs, but that's not the point here.

The point I was making is that BLM can dish aoe dmg at a faster pace than a SMN, as I explained, a blm can do Flare (for big dmg) back to back in a short fight, AND still get MP back to continue a fire aoe dmg rotation. Where as SMN can't dish that type of dmg at a fast pace as BLM can.

I have experienced in both BLM and SMN and I can tell you the comparison I made is true.

Now, I noticed that you don't have blm leveled to 50, so it can be hard to understand what I'm saying from that point of view.

Wow, I never noticed there was cap before. I guess that explains a lot. I thought mobs simply weren't close enough.

personally, I think Bane shouldn't use an Aetherflow stack and it's range should be increased.

if contagion is the reason why bane is consider overpowered in aoe situation. it is a closer solve to not let bane spread the dot time with contagion. lowering the target nummber is unreasonable for aoe situation where the encounter has an enrage. it make bane pointless because it allow to let one or more mob live longer than the rest. lead to longer time for the wave than needed.

That would explain a lot. There are so many times I just thought Bane was not getting everything I wanted to. It would be nice to up the cap a bit though. Maybe to 5 or 6? It should def prioritize monsters without DoTs on them though. I'm more concerned with the egis than the summoner abilities though honestly. I wish the had more punch to them (aesthetically and ability wise). Seeing the differences between the egis and carbuncles side by side does disappoint me.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

What I do find wrong about a lot of posts in this thread, are the following:

1. Tri-Disaster is way underrated, especially in WPSR.
2. You don't need Ballad to keep DPS going, it is more a factor of having good companion AoE DPS and a tank who won't put you into situations where you need to waste mana.
3. You don't need Energy Drain to keep DPSing in long boss fights.

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So many people dont get how awesome Tri-Disaster can be with Swiftcast, even if its situational. I primarily use it when i notice a tank is not keeping aggro on a whole mob and something goes after a WHM, but i end up needing it in a good amount of dungeons i go in, but only once has anyone noticed it.

Also if you keep up with Aetherflow and are using your stacks/re applying it correctly I dont see how any SMN could run out of mana. I typically dont run out unless I am just not paying attention and I am using Ruin II instead of Ruin I as a filler spell. I dont see SMN AoE dmg as being as bad as it seems people are saying. SMN do things better over time and are more mobile(which is especially helpful in fights like the Taulard fight where you have to constantly be dodging). BLM have more bursty AoE. Just because one is faster doesnt mean the other is not viable. I personally dont mind this trade off, I just want the egis to get some more love.

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Originally Posted by HamHam

as I explained, a blm can do Flare (for big dmg) back to back in a short fight, AND still get MP back to continue a fire aoe dmg rotation. Where as SMN can't dish that type of dmg at a fast pace as BLM can.

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No, they can't. If you start with Flare(why would you ever do that?), it's a hard 4s Cast -> Convert+Swiftcast -> Flare -> Transpose -> Pot -> Blizzard III(Wait for MP tick) -> Fire III -> Fire II. That's not fast at all. You have, alone, up to a ~9s downtime between using Transpose and casting Fire III before you can go back to Fire II. Global timer right before ->Tranpose+Pot -> 2s Later MP tick(Only UI1)-> Blizzard III -> Full MP -> Fire III -> Fire II. You shouldn't really use Double Flare because of how slow it is(exception is the END of a trash pack), and certainly don't start Flare->Flare.

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Originally Posted by horaiyo

but we’re limited to primarily st damage. I don’t think we should be better at ae than a blm, but removing the cap from bane wouldn’t put us over the top while still making us more viable in situations requiring ae damage (speed runs, turn 4, etc.)

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We're not limited to primarily ST damage.

It would put our AoE above everyone else because it would be pretty much equivalent to our 2-4 target DPS, which is leagues better than anyone else. The more targets, the closer people would come to us(due to thunder spam not being viable with high targets), and our pet being primarily ST. We would still be higher, however.

Don't even mention turn 4, because SMN is hands down the best job for that fight, and we do more effective AoE than anyone else due to Miasma II+Disease. Fyi, Shadow Flare slow works on the ants + rooks, hits knights, we can bane to knights without hurting ourselves, and Disease halves the healing the ants do to themselves.



Also, I'm done after this post, in this topic, talking about bane and AoE. Go ahead, get us buffed. Make Bane hit all targets. We'll be FoTM and then nerfed, which will most likely effect our ST and 2-4 target. I don't need to be the best at everything. We're already great ST(beaten only by the best MNKs, or BLMs with absurdly good RNG in their favor), highest 2-4 target DPS, and second on 5+ targets. On top of this, we have some of the BEST utility a DPS can ask for. We're in a great spot.

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Originally Posted by HamHam

It goes to show how little you know about BLM.

I never said you start with flare. Come on, get your head out of the sand. I'm not making an argument to make summoner look bad. I'm making an argument to make SMN better. But to each his own.

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It goes to show that you don't understand what I posted, because regardless of where you double flare it takes a lot of time to do. Not to mention the multiple "Why would you start that way?" comments.

My only quip with Bane is 5yalms from hit target... sigh such a tiny area, yes I would love if there as not a cap and yes if the effect cast to uninfected mobs that did not already get hit with prior Bane spread. 3 is kinda silly bit I can live with that, I'm having a hard time living with 5yalm spread. Being at range I often think mobs are close enough and waste a stack of Aetherflow casting bane and it only hits a single target (makes me so frustrated).
I will have to disagree with the Dev stating Garud'a add of time to BIO2 and Miasma up to 30 seconds making bane over powered is a crock of shit. A whole extra 5seconds to BIO2 and 7seconds to Miasma, this does not make overpowered at all. Just helps with being able to set up the next restack of DoTs, nothing more. I don't even think I've seen it affect Bio's timer, if so obviously not enough to matter.

Anyhoo, yes more time spent on SMN being, well, a SUMMONER and less of a mage with a pet (ie. almost beastmaster-esk). Give WAR a pet and guess what you have a BST.
With my SMN I feel we are very gimp in Burst damage, SMN does not put out fast instant damage as other classes and being completely reliant on DoTs and the fact that those DoTs need to stick in order for Bane to be useful or spread at all to other mobs because of the tiny 5yalms of effect. I find myself rarely using Bane now because it sucks so badly, and Fester gets used more often to take down single targets within my Shadowflare (which is only available at lvl50). I rarely run out of Mana with some long drawn out boss fights I get close, when having to recast BIO2 or Miasma cause it didn't stick (loosing DPS at this point). Yes SMN has the ability to still do damage on the run where BLM gets Scathe only.
So with Aetherflow allowing 3 casts of a choice of 3 spells that use Aetherflow stacks limits SMN a lot. So I guess I'm not understanding how anyone thinks SMN is over powered in any fashion? To me its pretty balanced yet could use some kind of Burst damage over Ruin2 which can drain the hell out of your mana pool when trying to Burn the end of a Boss' or mobs' life.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Don't even mention turn 4, because SMN is hands down the best job for that fight, and we do more effective AoE than anyone else due to Miasma II+Disease. Fyi, Shadow Flare slow works on the ants + rooks, hits knights, we can bane to knights without hurting ourselves, and Disease halves the healing the ants do to themselves.

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This is wrong. When you bane to a knight you do take ~1k+ damage (though the dots themselves, once bane'd, don't hurt you, and shadow flare isn't reflected)

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Also, I'm done after this post, in this topic, talking about bane and AoE. Go ahead, get us buffed. Make Bane hit all targets. We'll be FoTM and then nerfed, which will most likely effect our ST and 2-4 target. I don't need to be the best at everything.

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I still don't see how hitting a few more targets (how many are gonna be perfectly squeezed into a 5 yalm radius?) will make us the best at everything.

First of all if bane hitting all the targets without contagion would not be overpowered, but on par with fire2. the 3 dot doesn´t only have a ramp up time but also a ramp down time. contagion simply moving the ramp down time further back leaving us with more time to use other dmg from source like miasma2 or shadowflare. the dps from bane will go down after 15 to 18 second when bio will expire. and even go further down when miasma expire. that is except we do use another ramp up and another aetherflow stack.
that mean also on a 2-4 mob pack the bane dps should be on par with fire2 as long we don´t use contagion and can spam other skills like tri-dasaster or ruin.
consider cleave as an class mechanic would mean that all dps class would have cleave skills and be capable to of more damage on small pack than aoe or single target would do in that situation.

in the end square-enix are in the end the one who decides how things will be nerf/buffed.

One change I would like to suggest is this. Combine Spur and Enkindle into one ability. When used, your Egi grows in size (Hume) and takes a more pronounced appearance closer to the primal. It'll have the 40% buff that spur grants for 20s then finishes it off with Enkindle ability. Give it a 180s recast and I think a lot of people will be happy.

After some testing tonight, our pets DO get our materia bonus'.

Without belt/materia: 430 Accuracy. Pet was at 96%.

With belt/Materia: 442 Accuracy. Pet is at 99%.

So it seems pets just have a higher accuracy cap.


Still don't get effected by food, though.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

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It goes to show how little you know about BLM.

I never said you start with flare. Come on, get your head out of the sand. I'm not making an argument to make summoner look bad. I'm making an argument to make SMN better. But to each his own.

The thing about making Bane hit more targets, is that it won't take much to enable SMN to out-dps BLM in every respect, in every situation.

As it is now, SMN falls short on the AOE DPS front on stuff like WPSR, where you have to AOE 8+ targets on a routine basis. They make up for it on the bosses.

If you make Bane hit more, or unlimited targets, SMN will out-DPS BLM on everything. The only reason you would have to play BLM would be 'unlimited mana', which is a non-issue if you use Aetherflow properly and don't spam Ruin II.

SMN is in a good place from a balance perspective, and if you improve anything, it shouldn't be how many targets Bane can hit.

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Originally Posted by Nohime

summoner in here not looks like summoner
the primal egi should've been more important in dmg terms, because its SUMMONER. (as in YUNA in FF X/X-2)
i choose summoner because i like to have primal as my pet. but what i get is some mini primal wanna be, titan egi looks worst,,, what the hell is with that clump of yellow balloon.

and its sad that the primal-egi are not functioning like what i expected!
but i still love my summoner
i hope SE can made summoner class, more summoner like

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Egis will not be changed no matter how much you cry. Also, Yuna was no longer a Summoner in X-2.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

After some testing tonight, our pets DO get our materia bonus'.

Without belt/materia: 430 Accuracy. Pet was at 96%.

With belt/Materia: 442 Accuracy. Pet is at 99%.

So it seems pets just have a higher accuracy cap.


Still don't get effected by food, though.

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In addition to this, pets do not get a benefit from the passive stat boost from being in a party with x jobs/classes.

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Originally Posted by Nemhy

Egis will not be changed no matter how much you cry. Also, Yuna was no longer a Summoner in X-2.

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well its a freaking disaster not having Egis close to same size as in ffix thats was the whole point of them.
You will find people will never be happy when they saw titian Egis start tanking shit there was alike a mass agro on the forums.

Can't wait how they roll on beast-master later stage and how pet size will be. It will suck, If its bigger then Egis lol

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Originally Posted by Kevee

In addition to this, pets do not get a benefit from the passive stat boost from being in a party with x jobs/classes.

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I made a forum post in the in-game bugs section.

Please go there and show support!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-party-buffs.



Edit: Already moved to Accepted Bugs! While that doesn't mean it will be corrected(if at all) anytime soon, at least they'll know about it.

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Originally Posted by TrowaT

Have a question regarding summoners. Do either parsers (Ex. FFXIV-APP and/or LogRep XIV) parse summoner DPS properly now? And if it does, how does our DPS stack up to a BLM.

Final question is what is SMN burst DPS like compared to BLM?

Thanks for any help regarding these questions! ^^

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From what I have seen, both FFXIV-APP and Logrep2 will log your own DoT damage more or less correctly, when executed in a bubble. (like on a training dummy)

Logrep2 still seems to have a bug where it will miscalculate DoT damage.. sometimes, rather sporadically, I will see it report me having done some very excessive amount of DoT damage that I know for sure I didn't do.

It's kind of hard, if not impossible, to say exactly how accurate they are. From experience, the 'first person logging' of DoT damage seems to be more accurate than the third party logging of the same.. as in there is DoT damage shown to you, but not other people? Nobody knows _for sure_. But the general consensus is that you logging your own damage is more accurate than someone else logging it.

Our overall DPS stacks up well against BLM in a situation where you have a good mix of single target and AoE encounters. We out-dps them in ST, but lose out in AoE where there are more than 4 targets to engage at once. (because of the ramp up time needed for the second set of DoTs) But we beat them in AoE where there are 4 targets or less.

SMN burst DPS sucks. That's the one thing the class really lacks. To reach peak DPS, you have a ramp-up time where you set up your DoTs. BLM has a ramp-up time of casting Fire 3. Once we get going, and can start kicking out Festers during Ruin 2 GCD, we can get bursty. But we don't get from 0 to 60 very fast.

Take it back. Read it wrong.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

I made a forum post in the in-game bugs section.

Please go there and show support!

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-party-buffs.



Edit: Already moved to Accepted Bugs! While that doesn't mean it will be corrected(if at all) anytime soon, at least they'll know about it.

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Just curious

Do you know if anyone has submitted a bug report about ...Ifrit Egi in general? (~1 sec delay between his attacks, his attack doing less then it should for the potency listed, ect...)

I did a quick search of the bug forums but I couldn't find anything. Though I could have easily missed it.

If there isn't a report, one really should be made as I'm pretty sure the reason he does worse then Garuda isn't as much developer intent as much as bugs lowering his performance.

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Originally Posted by Supersun

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Not to my knowledge, but it still wouldn't be that big of a gain. They'd be about equal, because of Contagion, but then you have all the utility that Contagion/Ranged pet offers. So pure DPS-wise I'd expect Ifrit, if/when fixed, to do ~15 more DPS than Garuda. I'd say Contagion/Ranged pet is worth ~15 DPS.

Unless the lowered damage on Ifrit is also a bug(his hit is 120 potency but hits for a lot less), which I doubt.

If both of these are bugs/get fixed then Garuda will only be used..Almost never. Just AoEing trash with Contagion.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Not to my knowledge, but it still wouldn't be that big of a gain. They'd be about equal, because of Contagion, but then you have all the utility that Contagion/Ranged pet offers. So pure DPS-wise I'd expect Ifrit, if/when fixed, to do ~15 more DPS than Garuda. I'd say Contagion/Ranged pet is worth ~15 DPS.

Unless the lowered damage on Ifrit is also a bug(his hit is 120 potency but hits for a lot less), which I doubt.

If both of these are bugs/get fixed then Garuda will only be used..Almost never. Just AoEing trash with Contagion.

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I do suspect that the lowered damage might be a bug because like you said, that's definitely NOT 120 potency (though it could be intentional to account for his auto attack. Either way it wouldn't hurt to submit a bug report anyway since the worse that could happen is that they just tell us it's working as intended and the matter can be put to rest).

Even if both are bugs and get fixed I wouldn't say that Garuda would never be used. There are still plenty of scenarios where Ifrit is at risk of dying and having to up front another summons worth of MP may not be worth the damage difference between the 2 (you can do a lot of extra damage with the MP it takes to summon). Sure, Garuda would be used less then now, but I don't think Garuda would be used as infrequently as Ifrit is currently.

Every one should be wanting the AOE to come from the pet, instead of from bane....... right?

I mean it is called summoner, and enkindle should have more potency and less recast time.

Am I crazy, or is everyone wanting the Summoner to deal more AOE instead of the pet.?

About Bane, being a devil advocate, SE prolly wanted us, the summoner, to have control of what got bane'd and therefore gave it a tiny AoE range.. Granted doesn't work in practice but still I see where they are comming from. This thread sounds more of a "please give us summys a reliable Aoe"... Which in turn is diffrent from fixing bane.

Consider these options.
A. They could "fix" bane and the 3 dots to work properly, aka remove the bug's etc. And inaddition remove say the 15% reset dot chance to a flat increase dots ticking by 15 seconds.. This would make it FAR more consistent.

B. As for a reliable aoe.... Consider Tri disaster getting a revamp...perhaps instant cast, or keep same horrific cast time but monumentally increase its potency... Or a mix of the two; 1 sec cast time potency upped by 50 or what not..

These two fix our aoe issue of reduced targetting..and yet keep the "idea" of bane being a tight band/control aoe.

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Originally Posted by Baliso

Baliso

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OMG 1000 characters..really..can't even do a decent quote....


YAY a summy who KNOWS how to play our class....soo VERY few on the server in which i reside.:(. Figured it was jsut me and lag with the bio bio2 and miasma 1 refresh thingy... irritating and at times i waste a fester because the previous cast didn't "take".....Alas I have to wait till all dots run out if i want to be sure and mana is tight:(.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

Every one should be wanting the AOE to come from the pet, instead of from bane....... right?

I mean it is called summoner, and enkindle should have more potency and less recast time.

Am I crazy, or is everyone wanting the Summoner to deal more AOE instead of the pet.?

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If you want a pure pet class, then you're playing the wrong game bro.

Look in general at classes that are too dependant on their pets. BM hunter and demo lock in WoW. They're both extremely dumbed down and easy to play. If that's the kind of class you want, then maybe you should go play WoW. Summoner pets are already doing a substaintial amount of damage, what more do you want, seriously?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

SMN burst DPS sucks. That's the one thing the class really lacks.

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Then why did you roll a summoner, want everything handed to you on a silver plate?

Summoner burst is crazy when you pop all CDs. DoT classes have ramp up times, that's just how it is. If you don't like it, go roll a BLM. DIfferent classes have different designs. You can't have everything in one class, then there wouldn't be any need for other alternatives, except from that 1 class.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

From what I have seen, both FFXIV-APP and Logrep2 will log your own DoT damage more or less correctly, when executed in a bubble. (like on a training dummy)

Logrep2 still seems to have a bug where it will miscalculate DoT damage.. sometimes, rather sporadically, I will see it report me having done some very excessive amount of DoT damage that I know for sure I didn't do.

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When did this happen? Last I heard it still won't log contagion, rs dots, or shadowflare... Even the dots they do track are 100% guess work as there is no dot damage in the combat log. Correct me if I'm wrong

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Originally Posted by Imoye

If you want a pure pet class, then you're playing the wrong game bro.

Look in general at classes that are too dependant on their pets. BM hunter and demo lock in WoW. They're both extremely dumbed down and easy to play. If that's the kind of class you want, then maybe you should go play WoW. Summoner pets are already doing a substaintial amount of damage, what more do you want, seriously?.

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What do I want? Hmm maybe a final fantasy Summoner. I didn't think I was playing the wrong game since I'm playing Final Fantasy.

I pick a job that's called a "Summoner" in a final fantasy game that doesn't focus on Summoning, but Dots instead and I'm in the wrong for wanting a pet focused job?

I've never played WOW, and you probably never played any other Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

What do I want? Hmm maybe a final fantasy Summoner. I didn't think I was playing the wrong game since I'm playing Final Fantasy.

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Please read the other 27 pages of this thread, and the other 50 pages or whatever of the other thread, and the other maybe 10s of other threads with this same idea that this isn't the "Final Fantasy" summoner.

Bottom line is, hey look, Square made this game. They decide what a summoner is.

And furthermore, you'll find the player base is pretty split on whether they like summoner or not.

You aren't going to be able to push your complete revamp of this class, because its not going to happen. Period.

Fwiw I sort of agree with you that summoner isn't what I expected. Am I going to rage about it? Nope. Just either play the class or move on.

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Originally Posted by Imoye

Then why did you roll a summoner, want everything handed to you on a silver plate?

Summoner burst is crazy when you pop all CDs. DoT classes have ramp up times, that's just how it is. If you don't like it, go roll a BLM. DIfferent classes have different designs. You can't have everything in one class, then there wouldn't be any need for other alternatives, except from that 1 class.

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Who said I wanted everything handed to me on a silver plate? I was making a constructive analysis of the pros and cons of SMN vs BLM. It is true that we do better ST damage, worse AoE damage on targets > 4, and better AoE damage on targets <= 4. It is true that we don't do good burst damage.

I for one think that is called 'balance'. I was never saying SMN is bad because we can't burst, I was simply stating the reality for someone who specifically asked how it compares to BLM.

Seriously, defensive much? It is like you didn't even read my post, and just picked a single sentence to disagree with. Oh wait, that is probably what you actually did.

This bitching is getting crazy. The class might be tweaked sure, but a complete reskill focusing on the pets? It isn't going to happen.

Please remember the appeal of ff games (at least or me). Each is set in its own world with its own set of rules and lore with the exceptin of a few consistencies. These summoner a dont have to be anything like Yuna or any other version of the summoner in previous games.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

Bottom line is, hey look, Square made this game. They decide what a summoner is.

And furthermore, you'll find the player base is pretty split on whether they like summoner or not.

You aren't going to be able to push your complete revamp of this class, because its not going to happen. Period.

Fwiw I sort of agree with you that summoner isn't what I expected. Am I going to rage about it? Nope. Just either play the class or move on.

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Not raging lol. Simply giving feedback.

This is true, they decide what summoner is, even if it isn't summoner..... oh well, I guess I don't need to play the game.


Your the one that seems to be raging lol. But.... you could be defending a class you like, and i understand that, but you can't make people stop fighting for what they want.

The problem right now is some got to love this current class, and some missing the real summoner. SE could've made this class a necromancer while adding the true summoner way later. But oh well too little, too late.

Or maybe adding Evoker as a new class and High Summoner as the pet focused job later on. This will keep both parties happy. ..
But I'm not counting on this to happen.

It is the least summony summoner to date, but I still enjoy it. Having to deal with some 20+ abilities almost constantly is fun and engaging. I don't think MMO and 'Summon HUGE Things' go hand in hand very well, but the FF:Tactics implementation of summons would be nice to have in FF:XIV. And it probably isn't too late!

I think if you want the old school Summoner feel, maybe they could create a stance where your pet leaves and you have to cast a series of spells. For instance, Place a a pair of glyphs or summoning circles on the ground, summon egi then start the chant...boom huge game altering spell.

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Originally Posted by Engineer

even if it isn't summoner

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You don't get to decide that. If it wasn't Summoner, they would not have named it as such. What even defines a summoner to you, anyways?

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Originally Posted by T0rin

It is the least summony summoner to date

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The summon is our strongest "attack." We even get to interact with it!

That's pretty summony summoner to me.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

The summon is our strongest "attack." We even get to interact with it!

That's pretty summony summoner to me.

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Our strongest single attack to be sure, that adds some fairly minor amount of micro-management. I do enjoy that bit of it, for the same reason I enjoy all the other rotation related stuff. But, in terms of being a class that is strictly focused on summoning big monsters that fight for you, not so much.

Even when there was no dedicated summoner, the summons were still big and impressive, ala FF:VII.

Even if nothing changes, I won't stop playing the class anyways. It just seems that the summon aspect was kind of an afterthought, mainly due to the 'presence' the EGIs have, and the fairly small amount of stuff you can have them do. They are always a good chunk of my DPS though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Even when there was no dedicated summoner, the summons were still big and impressive, ala FF:VII.

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Well, there are some counter-examples like ChocoMog from FF7. Unicorn summons, Carbuncle summons, etc. These are fewer, but "big and impressive" doesn't define Summoner.

Yeah, but at least the Egi's are useful unlike summons in other FFs. I mean, there's a niche use like Phoenix, but pretty much all the time it was better to not summon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Well, there are some counter-examples like ChocoMog from FF7. Unicorn summons, Carbuncle summons, etc. These are fewer, but "big and impressive" doesn't define Summoner.

Yeah, but at least the Egi's are useful unlike summons in other FFs. I mean, there's a niche use like Phoenix, but pretty much all the time it was better to not summon.

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Yea but Kevee you aren't thinking outside the box.

What if you have a big brother that wanted to impress you with how pretty a game is? If it weren't for FF7's amazing summons I probably wouldn't have started gaming. And then where would your bestest pal be?

What if you really need to go to the restroom, and didn't want to press start? Summons are great for that.

Also say what you will about FF10's summons but I loved all of them (except ifrit, it even looked ugly and sucked in that game too >.>).