@Casuals , do you think the message has gotten through?

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

If they are dying that much then they need practise! Anyone who puts in effort can do savage. I used to be hyper casual and E9s absoutley broke me, couldn't do the first mechanic.

What did I do? I decided I would practise and come back in endwalker and try again. I have now cleared 5 savage tiers and 2 ultimates one on patch.

It just requires people who are used to having everything handed to them try!! If you people want to just pay sub and win then you need gatcha mobile games

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Only four bites so far (mine including) is not very impressive. But I'm sure if you continue practicing, you will finally become a forum troll worthy of the name. Keep going!

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

If they are dying that much then they need practise! Anyone who puts in effort can do savage. I used to be hyper casual and E9s absoutley broke me, couldn't do the first mechanic.

What did I do? I decided I would practise and come back in endwalker and try again. I have now cleared 5 savage tiers and 2 ultimates one on patch.

It just requires people who are used to having everything handed to them try!! If you people want to just pay sub and win then you need gatcha mobile games

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I don't how to feel at that amount of patronizing condescension hidden behind gleeful positivity.
Trying to help by telling that everything is "handed to them" when they're spending 50-75% of the time on the floor in NM modes and telling them to do savage doesn't sound like NM is actually handing everything to them in the first place..

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

Only four bites so far (mine including) is not very impressive. But I'm sure if you continue practicing, you will finally become a forum troll worthy of the name. Keep going!

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Call me a troll all you want but you casuals are insane!

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

Whatever it is you crazy people want isnt real!

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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Originally Posted by Nero-Voidstails

I play a game. so not studying for a fight that will reward me what? gear that will be bad on the next update? and then doing those fight for what 8.0 to come and make that useless as well? like other then the mount everything else will become useless so I don't really see the point of doing those.

I also am often off of static due to the time I can give to it since 99% of the static are when I sleep xx)

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PF exists. I do savage and ultimate in PF because I'm Australian on NA and static times don't work for me

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Call me a troll all you want but you casuals are insane!

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

Whatever it is you crazy people want isnt real!

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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Extreme primals fit that bill pretty well, as did other content such CLL, Dalriada, Delubrum, all of which were approachable and offered significant replay value, between common sense decisions like allowing Bozja to serve as a levelling experience and having a fairly well designed relic on-expansion. Much of the other content is bogged down by poor implementation e.g., developers and producers with decades of experience still trying to figure out how cross-team collaboration works. None of the requests here are really that difficult, so I am not sure how you're deriving insanity from it unless you're being intentionally obtuse.

A game with a population cratering to 2017-levels, in addition to stakeholder meetings with concerns around declining population and declining quality would suggest that this game isn't really all that thriving, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Extreme primals fit that bill pretty well, as did other content such CLL, Dalriada, Delubrum, all of which were approachable and offered significant replay value, between common sense decisions like allowing Bozja to serve as a levelling experience and having a fairly well designed relic on-expansion. Much of the other content is bogged down by poor implementation e.g., developers and producers with decades of experience still trying to figure out how cross-team collaboration works. None of the requests here are really that difficult, so I am not sure how you're deriving insanity from it unless you're being intentionally obtuse.

A game with a population cratering to 2017-levels, in addition to stakeholder meetings with concerns around declining population and declining quality would suggest that this game isn't really all that thriving, to be honest.

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'Noooooo we're gonna have a deep dungeon to level, we cant let the exploratory zone devalue that by allowing leveling' -argument I heard when I made fun of OC for not allowing leveling.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

'Noooooo we're gonna have a deep dungeon to level, we cant let the exploratory zone devalue that by allowing leveling' -argument I heard when I made fun of OC for not allowing leveling.

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This argument is stupid beyond compherison tbh, let us have choices. Not everyone likes Exploration Zones. Not everyone likes DD. Having more options are generally better than having less. If the issue was Knowledge level going up and down required the xp bar, they could've made knowledge shown in the ph. job menu and make it like 20000 for max level.

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Originally Posted by MetaBoi

This argument is stupid beyond compherison tbh, let us have choices. Not everyone likes Exploration Zones. Not everyone likes DD. Having more options are generally better than having less. If the issue was Knowledge level going up and down required the xp bar, they could've made knowledge shown in the ph. job menu and make it like 20000 for max level.

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Bozja was able to keep track of both “outside xp” and mettle, which was that zone’s version of Knowledge level, so I don’t see why it would be so hard to do it that way. So yes, let us have choices!

Because along with the Tower being as it is with no Normal mode, after you level all your phantom jobs, and get all the gear sets and rewards, there’s really not much to do but the same fates/CEs over and over again. Or gold farm to get stuff to sell and respawn your treasure chests faster to get more stuff to sell. At this point, I’ve completed my third zone gear set, and that was the last one I wanted. So I’ll probably try to max out silver and gold, just in case the next updates add anything to the shop so I can get it right away. Then I’m pretty much done til the next update.

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Originally Posted by MetaBoi

This argument is stupid beyond compherison tbh, let us have choices. Not everyone likes Exploration Zones. Not everyone likes DD. Having more options are generally better than having less. If the issue was Knowledge level going up and down required the xp bar, they could've made knowledge shown in the ph. job menu and make it like 20000 for max level.

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Yep.

You would think that actually having diverse methods of levelling outside of dungeons and FATEs would be a good idea... But apparently not.

The funny part of this is that the game is actually so obsessed with trying to dictate how you play that the moment something unique, new or fairly creative comes around that they must patch it, e.g., alliance raids serving as a practical way to gain exp.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

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That is overgeneralizing. Everyone who is playing the game is investing their time and effort in something they enjoy and want to do. What is engaging or not is a personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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If you want to play the game the way you like, that is fine. Understand, however, others play the game the way they want. Neither you nor I have the right to dictate what the right way is to enjoy this game.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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No successful MMO caters to players whose sole focus is high-end content. Instead, these MMOs provide an experience that players of varying levels can enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

Only four bites so far (mine including) is not very impressive. But I'm sure if you continue practicing, you will finally become a forum troll worthy of the name. Keep going!

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I wish people would just ignore the obvious trolls posting on alt accounts. It's laughable when someone LARPs as a proud raider but simultaneously hides all their achievements (if they have any to begin with). If they actually believed in any of the shit they said then they'd post on their main character.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Call me a troll all you want but you casuals are insane!

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

Whatever it is you crazy people want isnt real!

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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I think you’re missing the point of what makes FFXIV so beloved. While yes, MMOs can thrive on high-end content, FFXIV thrives because it embraced both challenging content and chill content. Not everyone logs in to chase savage/unreal clears or parse. Some people play to unwind, enjoy the story, craft, socialize... I could go on but the point is, that is still effort. It’s just not the kind you define as valid. Gatekeeping enjoyment doesn’t make the game stronger it just makes the community smaller. If people are unhappy with the state of the game, it’s worth listening instead of dismissing them as "insane." Everyone plays differently, and that is what keeps MMOs alive. Not just the hardcore players. WoW has learned this lesson by now, there's challenging content but there's plenty for casuals to dive into as well as challenging content they can tackle solo.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Call me a troll all you want but you casuals are insane!

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

Whatever it is you crazy people want isnt real!

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

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Ah, this time you've gotten me. Yes, I want it all, every little bit in the game, sent to me in my mailbox the next time I log in. No wait, that would require me to walk to a mailbox - I don't engage in such hardcore activities as walking around in game, and who even knows where the next mailbox might be located? I want all that stuff registered to my account, ASAP. And I will continue to pay this game for being mediocre until I finally get what I want! That'll teach the likes of you!

Man, it feels so good to be evil.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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Oh, and also: citation needed.

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Originally Posted by Hanzz96

Call me a troll all you want but you casuals are insane!

You want content that doesn't require any effort whatsoever, is "engaging", requires no time commitment, no study, and has good rewards.

Whatever it is you crazy people want isnt real!

I'm also so sick of hearing "This is game!" Or I play to "relax and have fun!" Video games and MMO's in general are built around challenging the player. You don't boot up a Mario game and expect to be taken to the last level because you can't make the jumps in level one.

If you want a relaxed social sim with no gameplay, no effort and to have fun well second life and stardew Valley are right there.

MMO's thrive on high end content its how the genre works

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MMOs should all drop their pretense at casual content (that they are all doing), and instead fully embrace kaizo mario.

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Originally Posted by Valence

MMOs should all drop their pretense at casual content (that they are all doing), and instead fully embrace kaizo mario.

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Crafting? Kaizo. Gathering? Kaizo. Repairing gear? Kaizo.

Everything must be savage difficult, even getting something from the mailbox.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Crafting? Kaizo. Gathering? Kaizo. Repairing gear? Kaizo.

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For crafting every action now has a chance to break the gear, for gathering if you gather too much, you're forced to fight a spirit in a solo (with your gathering gear) if you lose the instance all of your collected items are gone. You can only repair gear with dark matter. How do you get dark matter? By clearing an ultimate of course!

I do raid and I love raiding but there is a huge difference between "I want to do some content that are easy and repeatable for my reward." and "I want to get rewards for existing." Fate's in OC are quite decent assuming they're no zerg rushed. Why can't the normal overworld Fates can be like those? Or Chaotic's mechanics are easy but why are there 2 24-man tower mechanics right after a mechanic that is easy to die? The dev team seems to have issues to provide 3-6/10 difficulty content it either goes to 2/10 (Like Brute Abombinator) or starts from 7/10 (Extremes)

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Originally Posted by MetaBoi

For crafting every action now has a chance to break the gear, for gathering if you gather too much, you're forced to fight a spirit in a solo (with your gathering gear) if you lose the instance all of your collected items are gone. You can only repair gear with dark matter. How do you get dark matter? By clearing an ultimate of course!

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lol, and materia comes from exploding your own gear.

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Originally Posted by MetaBoi

I do raid and I love raiding but there is a huge difference between "I want to do some content that are easy and repeatable for my reward." and "I want to get rewards for existing." Fate's in OC are quite decent assuming they're no zerg rushed. Why can't the normal overworld Fates can be like those? Or Chaotic's mechanics are easy but why are there 2 24-man tower mechanics right after a mechanic that is easy to die? The dev team seems to have issues to provide 3-6/10 difficulty content it either goes to 2/10 (Like Brute Abombinator) or starts from 7/10 (Extremes)

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True, like underkeep was easier than alexandria, but I think that also has to do with the speed of mechanics. Easy fights give you plenty of time to find safe ground when doing it blind or known, harder fights give you little time to find safety when done at all.

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Originally Posted by Chasingstars

lol, and materia comes from exploding your own gear..

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Isn't that how it used to be before? I've read somewhere about that.

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Originally Posted by MetaBoi

Isn't that how it used to be before? I've read somewhere about that.

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Way back in the day, spiritbonding would break your gear and give you materia, yes. so each time you would spiritbond you had to re-craft everything

Funny enough as well, from what I remember, way back in the day prior to streamlining, to get Grade V materia for crafters and gatherers you had to spiritbond Carbonweave (2* i170) or above, since the materia was classified as i160, and not i150, so you couldn't get it with the baseline set

Well, I understood that there is nothing for me.

I'm not a raider (and I don't wish to have to deal with those sweaty tryhard people who likes to use those anti-tos tools to judge me).

And considering that I don't exist for S-E if I'm not such a sweaty tryhard and no matter what I say or do is useless, maybe going back to Ragnarok Online is the best thing I can do for now. At least, Priest/High Priest/Arch Bishop is being more interesting than White Mage, Scholar, Astrologian or Sage. Even considering that Gravity made the inoffensive healer approach (besides they're moving away from it, and Priest mains "Adoramus" that).

Maybe the whole time the other message was

"We don't have budget for casual players. Look forward for the next Ultimate!"

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sweaty tryhard people who likes to use those anti-tos tools to judge me

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You don't need tools to spot people dropping or not using their dots, unironically using Cure I, GCD healing where they shouldn't, not using raidbuffs, not using certain OGCDs etc. You also don't need to be a tryhard to notice these things.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

You don't need tools to spot people dropping or not using their dots, unironically using Cure I, GCD healing where they shouldn't, not using raidbuffs, not using certain OGCDs etc. You also don't need to be a tryhard to notice these things.

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Thank the gods, we haven't had a Cure I sighting for 48 hours!

I have seen around 6 Cure I healers in 7.2 alone. And I don't actually do many roulettes these days. I've also seen tanks that think Provoke is part of their rotation, SMNs that forget Searing Light exists, Scholars that do zero (0) damage on account of standing still when not healing. These are the same kind of people who refuse to pick up CE or use mechs in Rival Wings, the people who afk in base in PvP, the people who proglie in EX.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

I have seen around 6 Cure I healers in 7.2 alone. And I don't actually do many roulettes these days. I've also seen tanks that think Provoke is part of their rotation, SMNs that forget Searing Light exists, Scholars that do zero (0) damage on account of standing still when not healing. These are the same kind of people who refuse to pick up CE or use mechs in Rival Wings, the people who afk in base in PvP, the people who proglie in EX.

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Naughty, naughty Zoot!

There must be spankings!!!

Unless you have another solution.

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Well, I understood that there is nothing for me.

I'm not a raider (and I don't wish to have to deal with those sweaty tryhard people who likes to use those anti-tos tools to judge me).

And considering that I don't exist for S-E if I'm not such a sweaty tryhard and no matter what I say or do is useless, maybe going back to Ragnarok Online is the best thing I can do for now. At least, Priest/High Priest/Arch Bishop is being more interesting than White Mage, Scholar, Astrologian or Sage. Even considering that Gravity made the inoffensive healer approach (besides they're moving away from it, and Priest mains "Adoramus" that).

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The only sweaty try hard people are "hardcore"/week one raiders. Not even the savage raiders after a week or two are sweaty tryhards lamo. You're projecting.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

The only sweaty try hard people are "hardcore"/week one raiders. Not even the savage raiders after a week or two are sweaty tryhards lamo. You're projecting.

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Well, if the shoe fits on you...

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Originally Posted by miraidensetsu

Well, if the shoe fits on you...

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And your attitude is just as bad as the raider-type ones that bang on about snipers and people being too lazy to do savage

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Originally Posted by Brandr

Maybe the whole time the other message was

"We don't have budget for casual players. Look forward for the next Ultimate!"

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Which has been delayed (aka is not going to happen this expansion).

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Which has been delayed (aka is not going to happen this expansion).

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Is it not coming in 7.5? Or did I just assume that out of copium?

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Originally Posted by Brandr

Maybe the whole time the other message was

"We don't have budget for casual players. Look forward for the next Ultimate!"

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They don't have budget for raiders either. Where's our Criterion Dungeons? Where's the next Chaotic? Why was the next Ultimate delayed?

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Originally Posted by Volgia

Is it not coming in 7.5? Or did I just assume that out of copium?

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My prediction is that it wont come in 7.5 but SE will wait until right before 7.5 to admit that.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

My prediction is that it wont come in 7.5 but SE will wait until right before 7.5 to admit that.

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We don't know anything. SE never confirmed a second DT ulti and I also feel like its unlikely. Everyone saying it will happen is making assumptions.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

We don't know anything. SE never confirmed a second DT ulti and I also feel like its unlikely. Everyone saying it will happen is making assumptions.

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Yoshida said they were working on a second DT ultimate in the most recent live letter.

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

We don't know anything. SE never confirmed a second DT ulti and I also feel like its unlikely. Everyone saying it will happen is making assumptions.

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An expectation based on previous expansions. Missing the second ultimate in shb is something the devs have apologized for and it happened because of pandemic disruptions.
According to one of the lead ultimate designers it was definitely going to be 2, maybe 3 ultimate raids this expansion.

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Originally Posted by CidHeiral

Yoshida said they were working on a second DT ultimate in the most recent live letter.

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Right, but he never said for 7.5.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

An expectation based on previous expansions. Missing the second ultimate in shb is something the devs have apologized for and it happened because of pandemic disruptions.
According to one of the lead ultimate designers it was definitely going to be 2, maybe 3 ultimate raids this expansion.

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That was said, but it was never put into the roadmap or confirmed or brought up again. This was said during the NA fanfest if im not mistaken? I also believe it was something like "1? 2? 3? who knows!"

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Originally Posted by Altina_Orion

Right, but he never said for 7.5.



That was said, but it was never put into the roadmap or confirmed or brought up again. This was said during the NA fanfest if im not mistaken? I also believe it was something like "1? 2? 3? who knows!"

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I mean you can play lawyer all you want but this 'delivering only the bare minimum of promises' is exactly what yoship has acknowledged as the reason of the decline in quality.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I mean you can play lawyer all you want but this 'delivering only the bare minimum of promises' is exactly what yoship has acknowledged as the reason of the decline in quality.

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Yet thats exactly what he has done ever since EW, so why expect more?

Gurgehhh!!!


No. The message hasn't gotten through.

I hate to admit it but the game has been going downhill since EW. Add to it that they admit that things won't get better until the next expansion (8.0). I really want to unsubscribe and walk away, but I have a large house that I had to fight for, and a small group of friends that agreed to take a break. Normally when it gets like this I'll do some PVP but that has turned into a toxic garbage fire. IF 7.3 is as bad as the rest of the game, I'll bite the bullet and walk away, even if that means I have to give up my house.

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Originally Posted by 0blivion

You don't need tools to spot people dropping or not using their dots, unironically using Cure I, GCD healing where they shouldn't, not using raidbuffs, not using certain OGCDs etc. You also don't need to be a tryhard to notice these things.

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Im gonna defend the people casting cure 1 problem for a quick second. Square designed the spell and encouraged it's use because of the garbage freecure trait that hasn't been good in years. The game innately tells you to cast it , and rewards you for doing it. The developers could have fixed this ages ago by making cure 1 upgrade to cure 2 and be done with it, or give cure 1 and 2 different purposes so both can be useful.

It's just a flatout design issue that square refuses to address, because ??????