Yoshida gives update on the benchmark/character creator

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Originally Posted by Tethan

Yeah, having read the entire JP feedback thread, the sentiment over there is much more negative towards the update then here, many are calling for it to be cancelled. They are also more skeptical of Yoshi-P's statement, asking well what about all the model changes, while here things have calmed down a lot.

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Calmed down? You meant NA is overdosed on hopium, while JP understood that the bench changes are gonna be lightning changes, and not the model ones. Just wait till the LL when Yoshi P will have to cry again on stream because they'll either have to delay DT or delay the model changes till 7.1

This is an English forum, not NA. English covers Europe, Australia and Oceania as well

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Calmed down? You meant NA is overdosed on hopium, while JP understood that the bench changes are gonna be lightning changes, and not the model ones. Just wait till the LL when Yoshi P will have to cry again on stream because they'll either have to delay DT or delay the model changes till 7.1

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Yeah that is a way to put it lol

Whatever the case, we can trust JP to hold them accountable, they won't give up on this. I feel at current time there is little we can do but wait, especially with how hostile the environment is towards any critique on the English speaking side.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Zahard

Calmed down? You meant NA is overdosed on hopium, while JP understood that the bench changes are gonna be lightning changes, and not the model ones. Just wait till the LL when Yoshi P will have to cry again on stream because they'll either have to delay DT or delay the model changes till 7.1

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Some of the posters are on hopium but I think more are waiting to see precisely what changes in the new benchmark so they can give feedback more accurate to what the final product is shaping up to be. I doubt my problems are going to be addressed, for instance, but there's not much point in looking at the current benchmark if it's possibly using bad/outdated files.

Does anyone honestly believe that they didn't expect there would be a community freak-out? People that think this is a completely shock for them and they're now shaking in their boots before the mighty forum goer (JP or otherwise) are really gassing themselves up too much. Every single game that has done a graphical upgrade that includes the player models has gone through this, there's no way they weren't prepared for this to happen.

I would guess that they will fix the lighting issues in the next benchmark update, probably fix the things that are very obviously bugs before launch at the very least, and maybe some player feedback that was a genuine oversight. But at some point they have to rip off the band-aid and get it out the door so everyone can try it for themselves without the benchmark restrictions, and at least somewhat get used to the upgraded player models and how they actually look out in the world.

I'm sure they will continue to collect feedback and work on whatever they deem necessary, but there's no sense in putting something like this off forever because it will never be "perfect".

Yeah, right now we still don't know how much they're going to change benchmark character creation aside from what's been stated. It's possible that we might get the update in a week or two with just the promised lighting changes and bugfixes, or they might wait until they're redone some of the face sculpting as well so that it can be included and they can receive feedback on it. My guess would be mid/late May, after the next Live Letter so that YoshiP can talk about the dev response first, but that's pure speculation on my part.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

No, its not accurate, and yeah, everyones feedback matters, and there's nothing you can do to stop people from expressing themselves here or what their concerns are or aren't. So if you want to be hostile you're just asking to receive it back.

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Of course I can do stuff, I have a blocklist and I'm using it right now. Trolls don't get fed.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Naw, it is my concern. Relevant example: I am all for people posting their benchmark feedback in the hopes of getting it addressed. The people who have called for the entire graphical update to be cancelled because their character isn't right anymore on the other hand are my posting enemies and I have a vested self-interest in them not getting their way. Just as they have a vested self-interest in wanting to cancel the update entirely.

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It's not a relevant example because that's not what I'm talking about lol. You are free to leave your praise like I repeatedly said. Getting worked up and feeling combative and defensive over other people's opinions is pointless and unrequested and these are the same people who whine at how messy the English Forum is when they could just mind their business and simply post their opinion on the game like everyone else is doing instead of starting drama. But here we are.

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Originally Posted by Glenfiddich

I read Forum. I read General Discussion.
I can't see were it says "Message to the Development Team. Feedback only. No Discussion"

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Yes, and I agree, and that's the thing...
I dunno why SE would send people to talk to their devs in a public forum. Discussion is fine, but some people just wanna leave feedback for the devs, not discuss with other players, and this is all they've got.

Using a barely moderated/organized forum for both feedback and discussion has resulted in the mess these boards are currently experiencing.

I've made it clear how I feel: I like the update. Discussing it further however made me misread people and be misread in turn, neither intentional, and it's just not worth it.

I appreciate the sentiment from your reply, but I've seriously had enough.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

I apologize for the off-topic post, but I would really like to thank you personally for your understanding and kindness.
It's really rare to meet people like you here. Thank you :)

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<3

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Of course I can do stuff, I have a blocklist and I'm using it right now. Trolls don't get fed.



It's not a relevant example because that's not what I'm talking about lol. You are free to leave your praise like I repeatedly said. Getting worked up and feeling combative and defensive over other people's opinions is pointless and unrequested and these are the same people who whine at how messy the English Forum is when they could just mind their business and simply post their opinion on the game like everyone else is doing instead of starting drama. But here we are.

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It isn't about praise. It's people on opposite ends of an issue, both trying to be heard by the developers. I shouldn't have to say this because it is self-evident but the amount of people leaving feedback on anything absolutely works into the calculus of what the developers will do. Thus, if people are "leaving feedback" i.e. posting on a public forum which we know is where developers pull this info from, it behooves people of the opposite viewpoint to post oppositionally lest some change they themselves don't like get implemented.

Which is literally what, "they could just mind their business and simply post their opinion on the game" is. If you start a thread titled, "Delete the fat cat minion," you're going to get people who would like that to not happen showing up in that thread being like hey what is this, or no, fat cat is the best, or maybe even actually delete every minion except fat cat? To whom you don't just get to go, "your feedback is unrequested get out of my thread."

Or well, I guess you can say that but there's nothing compelling anyone to oblige.

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

How about you ALL just wait for release to see and stop with the typical general forum diatribes. I come here rarely now given just about everything new receives the typical it sucks receptions.

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Why? Clearly complaining about the benchmark making characters look like garbage was very useful feedback. If these "shut up and wait for release" posts were listened to, nothing would have been done about anything ever.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

Why? Clearly complaining about the benchmark making characters look like garbage was very useful feedback. If these "shut up and wait for release" posts were listened to, nothing would have been done about anything ever.

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I hope this influences the way feedback is handled at large going forward [it won't] Because all sorts of smaller concerns/issues are always shut down by the "wait and see-ers" or hair-splitting or being told to just flat out quit because they were being critical and giving feedback - just look at the huge "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate" thread that is puttering along despite so much dismissal lmao. Now that this scenario has played out on an issue a lot more people care about I hope at least people see how obnoxious and unconstructive it is to just be shut down when you have concerns/criticisms. Likewise it's encouraging that if we can wrangle enough cohesion issues will be addressed.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Of course I can do stuff, I have a blocklist and I'm using it right now. Trolls don't get fed.

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Do me a favor and add me to it please if you haven’t already. I beg you.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

It isn't about praise. It's people on opposite ends of an issue, both trying to be heard by the developers. I shouldn't have to say this because it is self-evident but the amount of people leaving feedback on anything absolutely works into the calculus of what the developers will do. Thus, if people are "leaving feedback" i.e. posting on a public forum which we know is where developers pull this info from, it behooves people of the opposite viewpoint to post oppositionally lest some change they themselves don't like get implemented.

Which is literally what, "they could just mind their business and simply post their opinion on the game" is. If you start a thread titled, "Delete the fat cat minion," you're going to get people who would like that to not happen showing up in that thread being like hey what is this, or no, fat cat is the best, or maybe even actually delete every minion except fat cat? To whom you don't just get to go, "your feedback is unrequested get out of my thread."

Or well, I guess you can say that but there's nothing compelling anyone to oblige.

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Exactly, that last thing I want is for the devs to start rolling things back to worse versions because some people are asking for this, or worse yet, just give up on doing meaningful changes to the game because people can’t do anything other than spew hatred with their words. On the other hand, when there is respectful and logical feedback that is good.

My guess is the new benchmark is going to be better for the rational person, but it’s only going to bring more hate from the obsessed. But people need to let go the old graphics if this game is going to have a future.

I don't post here, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've come to the conclusion that many people are self centred, selfish/self serving and inconsiderate of others. People are under the assumption that their character out of a dozen options with 4 choices in character creation, is their character and they know how they should look and that the game revolves around them, and don't even consider that there are many people who are indifferent or happy with the changes.

Let the team work and do the best possible job, yes, give objective constructive objective feedback. But stop it with this weird "I know how my characters look so they should change it to how I want it because I play this race", who made you boss of the *insert race here*? It's alright to be like "Oh I think these eyes look a little off", but consider that those "off eyes" may be an improvement to another player who plays your race configuration, or may be more aesthetically pleasing to people in general.

It's clear that people have fundamental disagreements on how this stuff should be handled, be self aware and know how characters "should" look is subjective and consider how the development team or player base how they "ought" to look. Consider what's best for you personally and consider what's best for the community and the game as a whole. Have a bit of give and take.

You know the devs don't need you playing interception because of the mean people leaving feedback, right? That they can make their own choices in how to respond to people upset about having options removed in an already limited cc? And you don't need to hypocritically jump to calling someone upset about how their character is being changed selfish and inconsiderate in the process?

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Originally Posted by Erimar

I don't post here, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've come to the conclusion that many people are self centred, selfish/self serving and inconsiderate of others. People are under the assumption that their character out of a dozen options with 4 choices in character creation, is their character and they know how they should look and that the game revolves around them, and don't even consider that there are many people who are indifferent or happy with the changes.

Let the team work and do the best possible job, yes, give objective constructive objective feedback. But stop it with this weird "I know how my characters look so they should change it to how I want it because I play this race", who made you boss of the *insert race here*? It's alright to be like "Oh I think these eyes look a little off", but consider that those "off eyes" may be an improvement to another player who plays your race configuration, or may be more aesthetically pleasing to people in general.

It's clear that people have fundamental disagreements on how this stuff should be handled, be self aware and know how characters "should" look is subjective and consider how the development team or player base how they "ought" to look. Consider what's best for you personally and consider what's best for the community and the game as a whole. Have a bit of give and take.

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Now and then I come back to thinking that people started liking something because it was new and fresh.
But down the road people want to shape and mold it into their liking so that what they already like will become even better (to them).
But if whatever changes because people wants it to it stops being what they liked to begin with and looses its soul.
In this case, a game.
They liked the game because the developers vision of it fascinated them in one way or another.
But if the developers later on can't follow their own vision because people start demanding things to satisfy their own needs they're basically destroying what they once loved to begin with.

Feedback if good and all.
But some can't accept if their feedback isn't done as they want it and keeps demanding more.

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Originally Posted by Rudje

And you don't need to hypocritically jump to calling someone upset about how their character is being changed selfish and inconsiderate in the process?

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Everyones character is being changed but not everyone is complaining about it.
So it's not completely off the rails to call some upset about it.

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Originally Posted by Evergrey

Everyones character is being changed but not everyone is complaining about it.
So it's not completely off the rails to call some upset about it.

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If you actually read my post instead of "you hate waffles"ing it you would know that my objection was to calling the people upset about it selfish and inconsiderate and not noting that they are upset.

If that was your intent, you did a damn poor job conveying it, and none of the rest of your post actually makes any sense because by the same measure anyone who wants the changes to go through without alterations is equally selfish and inconsiderate so there's no point to using the damn words.

Ina my case, the initial post I was responding to was a direct attack on anyone leaving negative feedback. That a not a case of kicked dogs holler, it's just someone being needlessly rude and getting away with it because the forum isn't moderated—posts like that are being actively deleted in other forums, which should be a good sign of what their impact actually is.

E: v if I have to read another sentence of someone being smug over not having an opinion I'm going to steal kneecaps so I'm going to stop here because this bullshit is infuriating v

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Originally Posted by Rudje

If that was your intent, you did a damn poor job conveying it, and none of the rest of your post actually makes any sense because by the same measure anyone who wants the changes to go through without alterations is equally selfish and inconsiderate so there's no point to using the damn words.

Ina my case, the initial post I was responding to was a direct attack on anyone leaving negative feedback. That a not a case of kicked dogs holler, it's just someone being needlessly rude and getting away with it because the forum isn't moderated—posts like that are being actively deleted in other forums, which should be a good sign of what their impact actually is.

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Indeed, both sides are equally selfish.
So instead of arguing whether or not SE should recall the changes or stick with them people should simply leave feedbacks and wait.
For in the end it's SE's decision and whatevery they choose to do people will have to adapt by it and move on, regardless what it may be.

Hard to tell which initial post you're refering to without it being quoted honestly.
So I can't add any comment regarding that.
Nontheless, following suit of what I just wrote, people shouldn't have to argue who's right or wrong in this, because neither side is.
If people want something to change they should just leave feedback about it.
Ofc, discussions regarding topics happens and people are free to share their own viewpoint about it.
But I've seen from both sides how the others point of view is wrong, and some, more rude comments than others, are being told so.
Neither side is free of guilt when it comes to being rude.

I personally don't consider my character "my character". We have very limited character configurations. The consideration goes both ways, if people are going to keep demanding and arguing there is no winning. There will always be people who are upset about things.

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Originally Posted by Erimar

I don't post here, but I've been reading a lot recently and I've come to the conclusion that many people are self centred, selfish/self serving and inconsiderate of others.

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bro both ends of the public opinion and a third faction of pseudo-centrists, in arguably most discussions in this forum, most definitely need to touch grass. And I'm not saying they are, but I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised if the community team was just using this as the rabid dog cage. let'em growl and bark at each other. God knows I've been a GM before for a private MMO server, and while I was loved, I would never ever have the patience as an adult.



in case anyone wonders, I'm unhappy with the changes but I can't really say for sure because the only time we get to drone around our character is in character creation which we already know has incorrect lighting and bad vertex data

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Originally Posted by Rudje

E: v if I have to read another sentence of someone being smug over not having an opinion I'm going to steal kneecaps so I'm going to stop here because this bullshit is infuriating v

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I think you're taking things a little too personal.
Smug? Not having an opinion?
I would say that my opinion is that both sides could take a chill pill and keep things civil.
But I can see from this that you don't want to chill. That you want someone to either argue with or side with on this topic.
Having someone neutral doesn't give you what you want.

But I can agree with you on one thing; going on with our little debate won't add much to this threat so it should end here.
Take care and let's see what the future brings regarding the changes and the people involved.

People not having strong opinions over the changes are fine, but only when they don't act like everyone who has an opinion is immediately inferior for having them, which is what your posting has been the entire time, which is why I'm blacklisting you so I never have to see you post again.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

To whom you don't just get to go, "your feedback is unrequested get out of my thread."

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How are you're going to quote me saying "feel free to leave feedback" and then say this? You're deliberately misinterpreting me at this point just to continue arguing. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I am talking about and it's got nothing to do with liking or not liking stuff. I'm done.

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Originally Posted by keichirou

friendly reminder ,in this type of scenarios , always keep your expectations low....

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just gonna quote myself on this one....who would have thought.
but tbh i see lots of peeps with a different approach now , that's *to a point * refreshing

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Originally Posted by Moqi

How are you're going to quote me saying "feel free to leave feedback" and then say this? You're deliberately misinterpreting me at this point just to continue arguing. This is exactly the kind of behaviour I am talking about and it's got nothing to do with liking or not liking stuff. I'm done.

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You're right, I misread, "Getting worked up and feeling combative and defensive over other people's opinions is pointless and unrequested" entirely. Sorry about that!

What is it “upset for selfish reasons”? It’s an emotion. About a personal player character. In a game.
It’s not a charity, we are not playing it for the greater good. What a ridiculous high horse stance.

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Originally Posted by Katsuragi_

bro both ends of the public opinion and a third faction of pseudo-centrists, in arguably most discussions in this forum, most definitely need to touch grass. And I'm not saying they are, but I sure as hell wouldn't be surprised if the community team was just using this as the rabid dog cage. let'em growl and bark at each other. God knows I've been a GM before for a private MMO server, and while I was loved, I would never ever have the patience as an adult.



in case anyone wonders, I'm unhappy with the changes but I can't really say for sure because the only time we get to drone around our character is in character creation which we already know has incorrect lighting and bad vertex data

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The thing is, in practice just letting people go at each other without moderation just makes things worse as people get more and more pissed off at each other until they're exploding over minor shit. Any good forum would have at least probated like half the posters, myself included because god knows I post angrier and worse when I can't sleep, and told us to cool our feet until we can behave.

And again the debate began on whose opinion is more important. It's better to discuss the facts.

We ask the developers to bring back what absolutely everyone liked. And you ask us to shut up and like what you like. That's the whole difference between us.

We were all promised that our characters would not change, but would simply look more detailed. The promises were not kept. And that is why there are so many disappointed people now. Fantasia cannot help them in any way. Some former facial features no longer exist and cannot be reproduced.

You are simply trying to degrade our gaming experience by elevating your gaming experience above it. It looks selfish. Much more selfish than people just asking the developers to fulfill their promises and return their characters to their original facial features.

Why should I even read a hysterical message here from a man whose wife took a vacation and will lose it, if the release is delayed? Which I never asked for, by the way. But this person actually just said: “I’m an extreme egoist!” and for some reason he blame me for this character trait...

Also, I would like to see moderation here. And I would really like to see one topic where people can simply post their requests to the developers, accompanied by screenshots and detailed explanations. No discussions, demagoguery, abstract reasoning, but only factual messages with descriptions.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

Also, I would like to see moderation here. And I would really like to see one topic where people can simply post their requests to the developers, accompanied by screenshots and detailed explanations. No discussions, demagoguery, abstract reasoning, but only factual messages with descriptions.

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I mean, I think people want to be validated by others in what they're thinking, rather than just simply supply feedback to the devs. Some are so fragile with their thoughts that if someone disagrees it sends them into hostility because *they* want to be correct. *They* want to validated and "important".

The same can be said on both sides though. People who come into threads disagreeing and starting off hostile feel like their perspective is being threatened as well, rather than coming in simply to debate an alternate point of view.

Some people just need to learn to not have their opinions be invalidated just because a random person disagrees with them and spin out into a toddler temper tantrum as a result lol. That's really it.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

We ask the developers to bring back what absolutely everyone liked. And you ask us to shut up and like what you like. That's the whole difference between us.

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There is a great deal of difference between liking something and accepting something. If the current appearance was so widely liked, there wouldn't have been such a call as there has been in the past for the improved graphics. The main reason for recent disputes is conflicting views on how much of a difference between the current and the updated models is deemed 'acceptable', with a few seeming to want to compromise very little on that front.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

Why should I even read a hysterical message here from a man whose wife took a vacation and will lose it, if the release is delayed? Which I never asked for, by the way.

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No, you didn't ask for it. But, purely because you didn't ask for it, it doesn't mean they aren't allowed to post it. It's an issue which affects them: they took leave to be able to play DT and now fear that the release will be delayed and will no-longer coincide with that leave, so they want to share this concern and their wishes that the planned date remains part of feedback.


Personally, I think it's good that they're updating the benchmark, rather than a simple announcement that they're making adjustments and then leaving it until the release before letting players see these new adjustments. All we can really do for now is wait and see.

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Originally Posted by LianaThorne

I mean, I think people want to be validated by others in what they're thinking, rather than just simply supply feedback to the devs. Some are so fragile with their thoughts that if someone disagrees it sends them into hostility because *they* want to be correct. *They* want to validated and "important".

The same can be said on both sides though. People who come into threads disagreeing and starting off hostile feel like their perspective is being threatened as well, rather than coming in simply to debate an alternate point of view.

Some people just need to learn to not have their opinions be invalidated just because a random person disagrees with them and spin out into a toddler temper tantrum as a result lol. That's really it.

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Everyone wanted to hear the opinion of one single person. Naoki Yoshida.
I'm very grateful that he responded to all those who were upset. I have a little hope for corrections.
That's all I came here for.

Nobody wanted to be validated by others.
People received hostile or devaluing opinions and reacted to them in the same way. And this is normal healthy human behavior. No one should be calm or grateful for hostility or devaluation.
It would be better, of course, to initially ignore these messages and not respond to them. But when I proposed this particular option, I was accused of calling for ignoring people’s opinions :)
Moderators should deal with this.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

snip

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I didn't read what you wrote, but I see that you are again responding to me. I'm answering you for the last time just to let you know once again: I'm not interested in your opinion. You are the person who, in three large posts, tried to convince everyone that I was cheating with images taken under directional lighting. Even though I mentioned exactly this type of lighting in every message I wrote.

You are the person who took my quotes and quotes from other people out of context and tried to distort them. Fortunately, the moderators found your behavior unacceptable and deleted your post. Also, the moderators in that thread deleted many rude posts (including one of mine, in which I responded to someone else’s rudeness towards me), for which I'm also grateful to them.
You are obviously stalking me on this forum. These are your problems, not mine. I can advise you to deal with these problems, but I won’t. Because honestly, I don't care about you at all.

I’ll repeat it again, maybe it will get to you. I don't read what you write. I don't care about you. All your efforts to be noticed by me will not lead to any positive result.
Bye.

Needless to say, although I quoted you, my initial point was not made towards you directly but as a general comment towards the wider discussion (unfortunately, it just happened to be your post which touched upon the point first):

Ultimately, whilst players have accepted current graphics up to this point, it does not mean they like it and would want it to remain if other options are available. Up until now, there hasn't been another option available, so it's been tolerated. Now there's been an overhaul which has included the characters themselves, it always was inevitable that there would be conflicting opinions. And, sadly, it sounds like there isn't a straightforward 'make it optional' fix available for technical reasons.

The only option would surely be to give more customization options, in the hope that, even if things aren't 100% identical, everyone can find something close which they are happy to work with

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

I didn't read what you wrote, but I see that you are again responding to me. I'm answering you for the last time just to let you know once again: I'm not interested in your opinion. You are the person who, in three large posts, tried to convince everyone that I was cheating with images taken under directional lighting. Even though I mentioned exactly this type of lighting in every message I wrote.

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My point was simply that the issue was 'lighting' with it being visible in all Miqote characters under that specific lighting, despite claims that it was structural. That said, I very much hope that the lighting adjustments in the new benchmark will resolve that issue for you. I will remain polite, even if that same courtesy is not returned to me.

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Originally Posted by AirisRay

I’ll repeat it again, maybe it will get to you. I don't read what you write. I don't care about you. All your efforts to be noticed by me will not lead to any positive result.
Bye.

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If you feel so strongly, surely there is a forum blacklist option? In that case you would not need to see my posts.

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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The trees look better too! I suggest "drink chamomile tea" option.

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Originally Posted by SongOfTheWind

Also, I am gonna be real. To all those “touch grass” recommendations. Do you realise how upsetting touching grass is at the moment? High quality grass is a constant reminder why we have this situation. Hugging trees is a superior option.

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worse even, in 7.0 the grass will run move away from you

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

If the current appearance was so widely liked, there wouldn't have been such a call as there has been in the past for the improved graphics.

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This is a pretty big logical leap. The call for improved graphics is mainly because you can see individual pixels in the hairstyles and ground textures without trying very hard. (And because some things would be weirdly high rez like the qitana ravel weapons, adding further disparity.) It does not stem from a dislike of the art style or overall design, and has never been a request to drastically change the appearance of anything.

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Originally Posted by Katsuragi_

worse even, in 7.0 the grass will run move away from you

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How will I continue to main botanist?! The plight..

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

This is a pretty big logical leap. The call for improved graphics is mainly because you can see individual pixels in the hairstyles and ground textures without trying very hard. (And because some things would be weirdly high rez like the qitana ravel weapons, adding further disparity.) It does not stem from a dislike of the art style or overall design, and has never been a request to drastically change the appearance of anything.

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I would definitely agree that that does form a major part of the push for improved graphics. Just looking at some of the images posted in a recent thread shows the extent of current limitations, with the crystal exarch being the first to spring to mind. Aside from lighting adjustments and perhaps hands/feet, updating characters' appearances didn't carry the same weight for many as the environmental changes. That said, it still doesn't mean that such updates would be deemed unnecessary or unneeded purely because they weren't as high of a priority. I can't help but think that if we were to revert the characters to how they were while leaving the environment, lighting, and equipment with the new adjustments, what once would have appeared okay would look much more jarring and out-of-place now.

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

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Originally Posted by Scintilla

However, why they changed such features as Moon-Keeper fangs etc., I don't know. Aside from doing it to try to push realism (which has been received badly across most of the communities from what I hear), I can't think of any other reason for which they would consciously elect to do it, particularly after saying they would try to keep characters as close to their current appearance as possible. Unless it was an outcome of the adjustments, but for as many posts that I've seen suggesting the slight feature changes are unavoidable for technical reasons, I've seen an equal number saying that not to be the case.

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The face/mouth sculpt issue is likely tied to:

1) Faces apparently having over 50 new bones now, which are going to introduce some rigging issues (I'm thinking mouth/facial expression bugs fall into this category).

2) The new facial animation workflow that involves having a standard head mesh and then morphing it into each different head to cut down on animation time. I think this is probably the reason for the keeper fang nerf because it's easier to do something like this when there are fewer differences, and Suncats don't have fangs. It's also probably responsible for the general homogenization of unique facial features (mouths either getting narrower, fuller, sudden appearance/removal of dimples, slimmer/rounder cheeks, etc).

The changes caused by #2 are among the biggest issues currently being vocalized by the playerbase and I think the feedback they've received will make them more likely to reincorporate those differences as much as they're able. Which, as a Face 2 Fem Au Ra player I'm really really hoping for (their unique mouth shape now looks way more like Face 1). Fingers crossed that keeper fangs make a return.

I'm also just generally worried about the quality of facial animations under the new system if it's this buggy only two months before release. Are we going to have Mass Effect Andromeda levels of "oh god what is my character's face doing???" with the new standardization? Already not a big fan of the creepy smile in the Dawntrail Benchmark, or the persistent duckface some characters seem to be getting.