Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aneshda

No, Streamers are the reason why AddOns gets used in a Game where AddOns are forbidden.
Every Streamer who shows 1 AddOn, should be punished for it.
Cause Players who watch those Streams are the first ones who are searching for those shown AddOn's.

---

Oh no, what a nightmare...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aneshda

No, Streamers are the reason why AddOns gets used in a Game where AddOns are forbidden.
Every Streamer who shows 1 AddOn, should be punished for it.
Cause Players who watch those Streams are the first ones who are searching for those shown AddOn's.

---

Lmao, I can't believe this is a thing that was said... actually, yes I can. Freaking wild.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

You don't see the toxicity because you are the toxic one lol.

---

Don't project

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

You don't see the toxicity because you are the toxic one lol.

---

Yeah. And you're the sensitive snowflake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Edelgarde

Yeah. And you're the sensitive snowflake.

---

Nah, I'm just not an ass to people who are more casual about the game than I am. Big whoop, someone isn't doing top tier damage in regular content, the horror. And as long as you know the mechanics in savage I'm not all that concerned about your dps output as long as its in a reasonable range and we meet the dps check.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FireMage

Don't project

---

You're one to talk lmao. Or do people need to point out like last time this topic came out how more than half your p6s clears at the time you had multiple damage downs because you couldn't do the mechanics and got carried through the clears? Guess people should be kicking you out of PF parties all the time eh?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

You're one to talk lmao. Or do people need to point out like last time this topic came out how more than half your p6s clears at the time you had multiple damage downs because you couldn't do the mechanics and got carried through the clears? Guess people should be kicking you out of PF parties all the time eh?

---

I was never carried, try again

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aneshda

No, Streamers are the reason why AddOns gets used in a Game where AddOns are forbidden.
Every Streamer who shows 1 AddOn, should be punished for it.
Cause Players who watch those Streams are the first ones who are searching for those shown AddOn's.

---

You are aware that addons existed LONG before streamers played the game right? Hell, I remember seeing ACT in ARR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

I'm not all that concerned about your dps output as long as its in a reasonable range and we meet the dps check.

---

And how would you know what everyone's DPS output is?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

You don't see the toxicity because you are the toxic one lol.

---

Not wanting to carry people in higher end content is not toxic, it just expecting people to respect the time of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Nah, I'm just not an ass to people who are more casual about the game than I am. Big whoop, someone isn't doing top tier damage in regular content, the horror. And as long as you know the mechanics in savage I'm not all that concerned about your dps output as long as its in a reasonable range and we meet the dps check.



You're one to talk lmao. Or do people need to point out like last time this topic came out how more than half your p6s clears at the time you had multiple damage downs because you couldn't do the mechanics and got carried through the clears? Guess people should be kicking you out of PF parties all the time eh?

---

Who was it that carried firemage? Surely you can point to people, right? Surely you're not making baseless accusations, right??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Semirhage

And how would you know what everyone's DPS output is?

---

Did you beat the enrage? Congrats you did enough dps. That's all I care about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Who was it that carried firemage? Surely you can point to people, right? Surely you're not making baseless accusations, right??

---

You know the website without anyone needing to directly mention it.

I don't think adding them will really make the game much more toxic, I feel like most people generally already be careful with what they say in game for many reasons, the type of people who rage about numbers would be the type to about other stuff.

I don't think people would risk their account over someone not performing well, Theirs already rules for being too critical of others gameplay I'm pretty sure.

also hot-take but enrages shouldn't be a thing if we aren't allowed to know numbers and where to improve on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I don't think adding them will really make the game much more toxic, I feel like most people generally already be careful with what they say in game for many reasons, the type of people who rage about numbers would be the type to about other stuff.

I don't think people would risk their account over someone not performing well, Theirs already rules for being too critical of others gameplay I'm pretty sure.

also hot-take but enrages shouldn't be a thing if we aren't allowed to know numbers and where to improve on.

---

Stop spewing logic, it's horrible in the face of "feelings"! /s

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Did you beat the enrage? Congrats you did enough dps. That's all I care about.



You know the website without anyone needing to directly mention it.

---

I know where to look, I already have. So who has carried them? Surely you know specifics and wouldnt just parrot what other people have claimed, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Stop spewing logic, it's horrible in the face of "feelings"! /s

---

I can understand, people being worried about "toxicity" but like 99% of people already know to be respectful and not really comment on peoples gameplay without being asked for tips or something first, The ones who do tend to be "toxic" get punished for being toxic.

My issue is the game is very Damage dependent, to the point where "the meta" is based generally on what job does the most damage, so knowing your numbers and where to improve makes sense...oh well I guess.

This is sure a lot of complaining for something that is obviously never going to happen, and never should happen because it's blatantly obvious this would increase toxicity. Just like it does in every single other game that has them.

It's almost as if this entire thread is a giant waste of time and space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Did you beat the enrage? Congrats you did enough dps. That's all I care about.

---

Gross mindset to have

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

I can understand, people being worried about "toxicity" but like 99% of people already know to be respectful and not really comment on peoples gameplay without being asked for tips or something first, The ones who do tend to be "toxic" get punished for being toxic.

My issue is the game is very Damage dependent, to the point where "the meta" is based generally on what job does the most damage, so knowing your numbers and where to improve makes sense...oh well I guess.

---

I’m honestly surprised no one reported the guy attacking firemage for getting damage downs. Since he obviously wasn’t in that group he used 3rd party sources to attack someone’s performance right here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ransu

Did you beat the enrage? Congrats you did enough dps. That's all I care about.

---

What if you didn't beat the enrage? how would you know if you needed to Improve your numbers?
I'm all for not "shaming" people based off dps but their has to be a point where you need to know where some people could improve.

While it's toxic to rage at people who are struggling, It's also toxic to put no effort into doing better and expecting everyone to carry you when you can't meet the checks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rithy255

What if you didn't beat the enrage? how would you know if you needed to Improve your numbers?
I'm all for not "shaming" people based off dps but their has to be a point where you need to know where some people could improve.

While it's toxic to rage at people who are struggling, It's also toxic to put no effort into doing better and accepting everyone to carry you when you can't meet the checks.

---

If you don't clear the DPS check and it's in PF, you pull again. Fail 3 times and something isn't working, you disband and make a new group.
You can't tell the full contribution on damage from meters anyway, the rdps stats are calculated after the fact by fflogs and without those everyone but melee looks like they severely underperform due to their raid buffs not counting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If you don't clear the DPS check and it's in PF, you pull again. Fail 3 times and something isn't working, you disband and make a new group.
You can't tell the full contribution on damage from meters anyway, the rdps stats are calculated after the fact by fflogs and without those everyone but melee looks like they severely underperform due to their raid buffs not counting.

---

I can Understand that but at the same time a lot of people take into account that some jobs give out buffs, In general I don't really think using numbers to help learn if you're performing well and comparing to others is a harmful thing.

I think, Understanding on a baseline level in a lets say "new static" group and how each player can improve is Healthy, I'm very strongly against people raging at others for not performing perfectly, but at the same time I'd actually like to help people who seem to be struggling in game and give advice if I could, problem is any form of criticism can be seen as negative. (In general I don't really comment on things like healers constantly healing when they don't need to, or tanks not mitigating, because I don't want it to be took the wrong way).

Eh, I feel like it won't bring "extra toxicity" either way, most people In ff14 know to be careful with what they say (like I've said), It's already against the TOS to be toxic lol most people understand not to, it's why the community is so "nice". But I know we will never get actual meters anyway because the community is so divided on the issue.

Meters do not tell the whole story true, but for the most part it does show who has underperformed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If you don't clear the DPS check and it's in PF, you pull again. Fail 3 times and something isn't working, you disband and make a new group.
You can't tell the full contribution on damage from meters anyway, the rdps stats are calculated after the fact by fflogs and without those everyone but melee looks like they severely underperform due to their raid buffs not counting.

---

Eh, if someone really cares about DPS numbers, they'll be live logging. Meaning the data is available on the website the moment the pull is done.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vivian_Vex

This is sure a lot of complaining for something that is obviously never going to happen, and never should happen because it's blatantly obvious this would increase toxicity. Just like it does in every single other game that has them.

It's almost as if this entire thread is a giant waste of time and space.

---

How would adding meters to the game suddenly change the TOS and make it okay to harass or yell at people? Please explain this logic where suddenly it's okay to harass people when SE is super suspension happy with harassment reports already.

This thread has gone about as could be expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ivtrix

This thread has gone about as could be expected.

---

Just kick back and enjoy the show like I do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renalt

Just kick back and enjoy the show like I do.

---

Just reruns nothing new here. This show has been going on for years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

Just reruns nothing new here. This show has been going on for years.

---

I've only been a part of the forums about 6 months. I'm doing some binge watching.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renalt

I've only been a part of the forums about 6 months. I'm doing some binge watching.

---

It’s always huffy painfully average midcore players that end up being the most toxic. Most players who are actually good (week 1s, Ultimate on content) players are surprisingly chill because they for some reason understand the dynamic much better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ivtrix

It’s always huffy painfully average midcore players that end up being the most toxic. Most players who are actually good (week 1s, Ultimate on content) players are surprisingly chill because they for some reason understand the dynamic much better.

---

Players that high up don't have to usually deal with oxygen thieves

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

If you don't clear the DPS check and it's in PF, you pull again. Fail 3 times and something isn't working, you disband and make a new group.
You can't tell the full contribution on damage from meters anyway, the rdps stats are calculated after the fact by fflogs and without those everyone but melee looks like they severely underperform due to their raid buffs not counting.

---

That goes back to “using it properly”. No one with a brain is going to compare the dancer to the samurai but we CAN compare it to other dancers we are normally with. If you’re doing 4k it doesn’t matter what dps you are. It’s a problem.

FireMage and Ivtrix with the Mario & Luigi color scheme lmfao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BaconBits

FireMage and Ivtrix with the Mario & Luigi color scheme lmfao.

---

Proof right there that Luigi > Mario

Anti-parsers have the most alien, WASPy approach to problem solving. If we have an issue we first need to make sure we have absolutely no way of knowing where it came from, how to solve it, or god forbid learn anything from it. Because someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow, might hurt someone's feelings, so instead we'll just disband and roll the dice on random people again. Coaching and feedback are of the devil and an abomination against the twelve. Much better to live in the dark. Information is witchcraft. Cover your ears. Close your eyes. Don't solve the problem. Just passive-aggressive and mean girl your way through your problems, the FFXIV TOS-respecting patented method (TM).

Quote:

---

Anti-parsers have the most alien, WASPy approach to problem solving

---

The correlation for this is....?

Quote:

---

Because someone, somewhere, sometime, somehow, might hurt someone's feelings, so instead we'll just disband and roll the dice on random people again

---

Theres you and then theres concrete proof of what dps meters enable.

Quote:

---

. Just passive-aggressive and mean girl your way through your problems, the FFXIV TOS-respecting patented method (TM).

---

You are still torqued about that banned streamer, arent you?

Whatever small benefits that could come from damage meters would be instantaneous drowned by the toxic nature that comes with such... sausage waving.

A personal damage meter used to help craft rotations, perhaps connected to training dummies? Sure that could work but I do not think the game needs anything more then that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hurlstone

Whatever small benefits that could come from damage meters would be instantaneous drowned by the toxic nature that comes with such... sausage waving.

A personal damage meter used to help craft rotations, perhaps connected to training dummies? Sure that could work but I do not think the game needs anything more then that.

---

Why do so many people in here pretend that being toxic over dps numbers isnt already covered under TOS? What do you think will happen if I were to pop off on someone for failing every boss mechanic? Do you think popping off on someone's damage numbers would lead to any kind of different outcome? If yes, why?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Why do so many people in here pretend that being toxic over dps numbers isnt already covered under TOS? What do you think will happen if I were to pop off on someone for failing every boss mechanic? Do you think popping off on someone's damage numbers would lead to any kind of different outcome? If yes, why?

---

They are not pretending the understand the ToS covers this, but their position is why bother adding something that the community knows it will be abused end of story. That is the line the drew in the sand. Also seems Yoshi-P has the same line, instead of being reactive they rather be proactive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

Why do so many people in here pretend that being toxic over dps numbers isnt already covered under TOS? What do you think will happen if I were to pop off on someone for failing every boss mechanic? Do you think popping off on someone's damage numbers would lead to any kind of different outcome? If yes, why?

---

Having the meters in the game invites the argument that there's no toxicity in screaming at someone when they do low DPS. It's information provided by SE after all.
Not to mention were you to add meters you would be increasing the report load on GMs and force them to sort through even more reports to determine which have merit. Every report is reviewed before action is taken, unlike other games (Blizzard), who use automated systems of X number of reports = ban.

And for what? So someone who already uses DPS meters can rage at someone in a levelling dungeon without admitting to using a 3rd party addon? That's a lot of headache for basically no gain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Having the meters in the game invites the argument that there's no toxicity in screaming at someone when they do low DPS. It's information provided by SE after all.
Not to mention were you to add meters you would be increasing the report load on GMs and force them to sort through even more reports to determine which have merit. Every report is reviewed before action is taken, unlike other games (Blizzard), who use automated systems of X number of reports = ban.

And for what? So someone who already uses DPS meters can rage at someone in a levelling dungeon without admitting to using a 3rd party addon? That's a lot of headache for basically no gain.

---

Why do you think the outcome would be different compared to me popping off on someone over dropping to every boss mechanic? That's also information provided by SE. I can see when someone dies, I can see their (stacking) weakness. The reason why people are so tame in ff14 is because there is an actual threat of punishment for every single aggression. This keeps people quiet right now, it will continue to do so because people are already used to that.
Do you really think people dont already see if someone deals no damage without parser? That's foolish. If I see a dps be fourth in aggro on a dungeon boss with no deaths happening well into the fight, I dont need a dps meter. Do you think people dont notice a trash pull taking double the time than usual with one dude standing there and only acting every 5 seconds? Do you think people dont notice a healer not casting a single dps spell the entire fight? If you open your eyes you already see that but people are overwhelmingly quiet about it.
Nothing would change, which makes your next question actually really good: "for what?" This is the only valid argument in this entire thread. The benefit would be to be able to show people going on a condescending rant about how much they are carrying a party if the blame game starts happening that actually they werent and that definitive proof exists. If this upsets people who want to get through dungeons with pressing no more than 3 buttons then good, they're not respecting anyone's time, why should their time get respected. That said, I dont think it would be a good idea for SE to build their own tool. I'm sorry console players, you wont be able to use ACT and I dont think it would be a worthwhile adventure for SE to try to copy it.
It would be a huge waste of time, what would be the far more sensible approach would be to dial back their stance on mods and not outlaw them on principle. None of the TOS about harassment would have to change because it's already covered. Even now, if you pile on someone for their damage numbers ingame it's not mod usage you get punished for. It's harassment rules. Under the current way of handling it.