What Zero Could've Been

Personally I hope Aveyond keeps making threads, where else am I going to read takes about Y'sthola being a "3" and Magnai being an "8". Endless source of entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I've never advocated using the ignore feature.

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You specifically didn't, but I definitely spot a few familiar faces here who have, and are not using their glorious solution to people they don't like. I didn't really want to point out specific examples as that'll be opening a can of worms in a thread I didn't intend on staying in for too long, but they know who they are.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And its a forum. I'm here to discuss. Unlike some.

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Lest you misunderstand, I am not advocating for the use of the ignore button, I am merely pointing out the hypocrisy of those who push for others to use it while simultaneously not using it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

There is no Hate Squad. We are just users on a Forum who seem to collectively disagree with Aveyond's takes. We are free to do so, just like he is free to make those takes.
This isnt a 1-way street where he is allowed to say whatever he wants unchallenged, and nobody is allowed to add their thoughts. If you want an echo chamber where the only people allowed are like-minded...make a discord. Otherwise grow up and be prepared for potential diverse opinions. This is a public forum.

Its hilarious how Strong, Brave and Bold ya'll are, but then you crumble into wet paper when you start getting pushback.

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I think you misunderstand my intent here. I am not defending Aveyond, as I said before. I am neither endorsing or condemning the OP of this thread. However, in other threads, many of the usual actors have stated that the ignore button is the go-to if you don't like someone. However, they are not ignoring Aveyond who they clearly dislike to some degree. I am pointing out this hypocrisy. If you haven't pushed for the use of the ignore button in the past, don't worry, I am not referring to you. I personally am a big fan of open discussion, and hate echo chambers. Hence why I'm so vehemently against the white knights and drama baiters on the forums. That's why I'm willing to call people out on their crap when they try to turn the forums into Reddit. The ignore button goes completely against said open discussion, so if a group of posters is going to endorse it, I'm going to hold them to heir standards.

As for why I use the term 'Hate Squad', there is a group of posters who you can find on every single one of Aveyond's threads who specifically show up to either derail the thread or insult him. Have you ever seen the posts in every Aveyond thread, where people bring up the fact that Aveyond doesn't like the burger scene with Graha? Do you think that's really relevant in most situations? No it's not. Whether you agree with him or not, you're either delusional or a liar if you say that everyone here is here in good faith. Sure, there are definitely good faith posters here, and you're one of them. But it's obvious that there are posters here simply to hate on Aveyond. Thus they are the Aveyond hate squad. Again, am I referring to the everyday poster? No. But there is a group of users specifically here to hate on Aveyond.

If you think that calling out a group of people for their hypocrisy is crumbling into wet paper, you're free to be wrong if you choose.

do these forums even have 1000 regular users? let alone double that.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I think you misunderstand my intent here. I am not defending Aveyond, as I said before. I am neither endorsing or condemning the OP of this thread. However, in other threads, many of the usual actors have stated that the ignore button is the go-to if you don't like someone. However, they are not ignoring Aveyond who they clearly dislike to some degree. I am pointing out this hypocrisy. If you haven't pushed for the use of the ignore button in the past, don't worry, I am not referring to you.

As for why I use the term 'Hate Squad', there is a group of posters who you can find on every single one of Aveyond's threads who specifically show up to either derail the thread or insult him. Have you ever seen the posts in every Aveyond thread, where people bring up the fact that Aveyond doesn't like the burger scene with Graha?

If you think that calling out a group of people for their hypocrisy is crumbling into wet paper, you're free to be wrong if you choose.

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To be fair. SEVERAL times, Aveyond himself has brought up and referenced the Burger Scene and added to the derailment by talking about it more and more. Aveyond is also guilty of derailing his own threads randomly. Im definitly not an advocate of the Ignore Button; I dont believe it should ever be used unless you are literally being harassed. And I could have missed it, I dont visit EVERY thread, but for me Aveyond hasnt really be Harassed; he makes a statement, and people disagree with it, or give him flak because it is a reasonably bad take.
The Whole "Good/Bad Faith thing has been used a few times, Im not afraid to display my ignorance on that term. I dont understand it XD Its slang or whatever beyond my vocab and not one I ever use.

And no, the Crumbling like Wet paper line is directed at people who...I guess lets say can sit here and talk bad about something, and say its objective truth. But then people with the opposite opinion come in and disagree with the statement, or even spit facts to contradict and battle it. And then said person who made the original statement starts crying foul and saying things like "Im being silenced" These are people who Crumble like wet paper; the types Im talking about

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

Have you ever seen the posts in every Aveyond thread, where people bring up the fact that Aveyond doesn't like the burger scene with Graha? Do you think that's really relevant in most situations? No it's not.

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I'd say its absolutely relevant as those people are simply pointing out his history of bad takes on everything in this game.

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Originally Posted by KariTheFox

do these forums even have 1000 regular users? let alone double that.

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I don't even think there are forty regulars around here at this point. Can't say I'm really keeping track, though.

There is like a new thread every week from someone saying how certain npcs should or shouldn’t have been. For the love of giant beaver minion, apply for a job at squeenix if you have such issues with the story and actually want to make a difference, because this forum is completely forsaken.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

In the sense that he continues to terrorize the player character in every scene he appears in and can’t keep his hands off them. A demon by way of that and more a clingy sort of creature whose attempts at seduction and getting close to my character fail repeatedly because he acts so strangely. A pity that they couldn’t at least have done us the favor of making him conventionally attractive if he was going to behave in such a manner.

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This is genuinely and unironically the most absolutely baffling take I have ever seen on a video game forum
Are we playing the same game? Did I fever dream this entire expansion or what?

Like my biggest issue with G'raha is that he effectively worships the ground we walk on - in a bizarrely naive hero worship kind of way. Like a, wow sure would suck to have a friend who sees you as a hero before a person kind of way. I love the guy, but I think they push that angle too hard. And I'm STILL completely baffled as to how he could be interpreted as anything close to a "demonic seductress."

Like, Haurchefaunt was worse even after being hit with a censorship bat or two. Now THAT dude was blatantly WoLsexual.

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Originally Posted by Avidria

This is genuinely and unironically the most absolutely baffling take I have ever seen on a video game forum
Are we playing the same game? Did I fever dream this entire expansion or what?

Like my biggest issue with G'raha is that he effectively worships the ground we walk on - in a bizarrely naive hero worship kind of way. Like a, wow sure would suck to have a friend who sees you as a hero before a person kind of way. I love the guy, but I think they push that angle too hard. And I'm STILL completely baffled as to how he could be interpreted as anything close to a "demonic seductress."

Like, Haurchefaunt was worse even after being hit with a censorship bat or two. Now THAT dude was blatantly WoLsexual.

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Haurchefaunt didnt eat hamburgers, so I imagine he is considered "okay"

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Haurchefaunt didnt eat hamburgers, so I imagine he is considered "okay"

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But he had roast chicken, may as well have been eating at Boston Market!

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Originally Posted by Avidria

This is genuinely and unironically the most absolutely baffling take I have ever seen on a video game forum

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If this is the most baffling take you've ever seen on a video game forum...

Welcome to the rabbit hole that is the FFXIV official forums.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

may as well have been eating at Boston Market!

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Ow, right in the 'Memberberries

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If this is the most baffling take you've ever seen on a video game forum...

Welcome to the rabbit hole that is the FFXIV official forums.

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Oh I've been here a while and seen some very baffling takes lol
Just few that have left me quite so confused

Editing to throw out some thoughts here on. The thread topic I guess lol
I'm glad Zero isn't more of a demonic seductress type character because personally I find that type of character generally off putting, uncomfortable, or just uninteresting unless it's done very well or in an interesting way.

And now I'm going to go lie down have a good one y'all

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

The Whole "Good/Bad Faith thing has been used a few times, Im not afraid to display my ignorance on that term. I dont understand it XD Its slang or whatever beyond my vocab and not one I ever use.

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When someone debates in good faith, they're coming into the discussion intending to be respectful of the other parties and make their case honestly and have an open mind. When someone debates in bad faith, they aren't coming into the discussion intending to be respectful of others and make their case honestly and either have their mind made up and just want to push forward their own agenda or they are trying to coerce others into some desired action.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

When someone debates in good faith, they're coming into the discussion intending to be respectful of the other parties and make their case honestly and have an open mind. When someone debates in bad faith, they aren't coming into the discussion intending to be respectful of others and make their case honestly and either have their mind made up and just want to push forward their own agenda or they are trying to coerce others into some desired action.

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Bad faith can also mean they don't actually hold the belief they are claiming, but are simply doing it to be disruptive and cause a negative effect.

All this talk really makes me miss Haurchefaunt…and Zeno’s love…but Im sick and that is so wrong.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Bad faith can also mean they don't actually hold the belief they are claiming, but are simply doing it to be disruptive and cause a negative effect.

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This as well. A good addition. Best way to sum it up is that someone debating in bad faith isn't actually debating. They're not coming in with a mind to have the sort of back and forth and give and take that good discussion needs.

The amount of "yikes" I see in the thread is worrying. lmao

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

The amount of "yikes" I see in the thread is worrying. lmao

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Just another day in GD."Yikes" is what we do best.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Just another day in GD.

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True, but for a sec I thought the GD was being flooded with "those" types of twitter users, lol.

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Originally Posted by Raoabolic

True, but for a sec I thought the GD was being flooded with "those" types of twitter users, lol.

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I mean, we still are. Probably.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

If this is the most baffling take you've ever seen on a video game forum...

Welcome to the rabbit hole that is the FFXIV official forums.

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I actually, really really like Venat. She's really just the best Mother.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Just another day in GD."Yikes" is what we do best.

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By it's very definition, yikes cannot be the best. Best and yikes do not belong in the same sentence and are capital offense war crimes and violations of the Geneva Convention.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

I actually, really really like Venat. She's really just the best Mother.

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Figures you'd be head over heels for the character who is basically a complete sociopath.

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

I actually, really really like Venat. She's really just the best Mother.

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You forgot the /s

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

By it's very definition, yikes cannot be the best. Best and yikes do not belong in the same sentence.

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Apologies. What was I thinking? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Kes13a

Haurchefaunt didnt eat hamburgers, so I imagine he is considered "okay"

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I bet he would have liked to go out and get burgers with us too... :(

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Figures you'd be head over heels for the character who is basically a complete sociopath.

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Who else am I going to empathize and identify with? Momma Nelf put Sylvie in the time-out box forever and ever. I just like killing people. In my video games. That's totally what I meant.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

You forgot the /s

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https://i.imgur.com/e9Ia4WH.jpg

Did I, though?

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Originally Posted by SentioftheHoukai

https://i.imgur.com/e9Ia4WH.jpg

Did I, though?

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https://nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/...6db91aec9c.png

I spend a lot less time on the forums because of the blatant misogyny that keeps getting thrown around constantly. It's so obvious. We get it. Every female character bad. Get new material. And no CLASSICALLY HANDSOME and G'raha Tia is evil is not new material.

Zero is awesome. I can't wait to see more from her.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I spend a lot less time on the forums because of the blatant misogyny that keeps getting thrown around constantly. It's so obvious. We get it. Every female character bad. Get new material. And no CLASSICALLY HANDSOME and G'raha Tia is evil is not new material.

Zero is awesome. I can't wait to see more from her.

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Yes, everyone who isn't a fan of how those characters are handled is a mysognist. Such a stunning and brave stance.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

I spend a lot less time on the forums because of the blatant misogyny that keeps getting thrown around constantly

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Tsumdere, I know this may not be mentioned in whatever dictionary you may be relying on for the definition of "blatant," but something isn't blatant if other people can make a credible case that it isn't there (much less if you're the only one who sees it.)

Perhaps you should use a different word, like "inherent," "tacit," "implicit," or the now-trendy "dog whistle," the latter of which may be roughly defined as "they didn't say it or imply it, but I know that's what they meant."

To be fair to aveyond, his takes about attractiveness are also applied to male characters.
So it's less about misogyny and more about him wanting hot characters in general.

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Originally Posted by Kazhar

To be fair to aveyond, his takes about attractiveness are also applied to male characters.
So it's less about misogyny and more about him wanting hot characters in general.

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Indeed. I don't buy video games or watch stuff that has characters that don't look appealing, and with character customization options so limited in this game the least they could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes. The women of FFXIV's main cast don't do this, and neither do the men.

Usually anyone can find at least one character that they're drawn to when it comes to narrative-heavy media like FFXIV is, but unless you like scholars with short white hair or whatever G'raha Tia is supposed to be it seems like I'm out of luck. Bar the exit of Y'shtola from the party and her replacement being the sort of heroine I've described in the past, I don't see how Zero or god forbid Krile will bring anything of substance to the table besides magic gizmos to instafix our problems.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Yes, everyone who isn't a fan of how those characters are handled is a mysognist. Such a stunning and brave stance.

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Its also apparently Stunning and Brave to call people Fora Knights and to come at them for liking Venat.
So...idk. The politics on these forums are weird lol

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I don't buy video games or watch stuff that has characters that don't look appealing, and with character customization options so limited in this game.

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Well...you...kinda already did....and you've been playing this game for How Many Years now?...
So this is very m00t

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Indeed. I don't buy video games or watch stuff that has characters that don't look appealing, and with character customization options so limited in this game the least they could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes. The women of FFXIV's main cast don't do this, and neither do the men.

Usually anyone can find at least one character that they're drawn to when it comes to narrative-heavy media like FFXIV is, but unless you like scholars with short white hair or whatever G'raha Tia is supposed to be it seems like I'm out of luck. Bar the exit of Y'shtola from the party and her replacement being the sort of heroine I've described in the past, I don't see how Zero or god forbid Krile will bring anything of substance to the table besides magic gizmos to instafix our problems.

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Your take is entirely subjective for everyone so the conversation about it is completely a moot point.

You have such weird views on women, man.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I ... the least they [CBU3] could do is spend some time making our party members look decent, while accounting for a variety of tastes.

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I guess you haven't heard, but there's no accounting for taste. It's innumerable.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

You have such weird views on women, man.

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Do they? When it comes to a norm for female attractiveness, looked at historically, there isn't much of one.
Generally, it seems to come down to either "look like you're rich," "look built to bear children," or a combination thereof.
And that covers a lot of ground, from beyond Rubenesque to the flappers of the 1920's.*

*Thoroughly Modern Millie contains an amusing bit where Julie Andrew's character Millie is jealous of Mary Tylor Moore's character Dorothy because Dorothy's "beads" -- a long necklace -- "hang straight" on Dorothy's more modest chest.

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Originally Posted by Silverbane

I guess you haven't heard, but there's no accounting for taste. It's innumerable.

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I think there are some pretty common ones like girls with long hair that go through dramatic, compelling emotional journeys/love stories along with sterner guys that carry heavy unseen burdens with facial hair and strong physiques that they could start with.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

I think there are some pretty common ones like girls with long hair that go through dramatic, compelling emotional journeys/love stories along with sterner guys that carry heavy unseen burdens with facial hair and strong physiques that they could start with.

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Why do the men get the excuse of having unseen burdens lol. Why must the women have emotional journeys or love stories.

These just seem like very arbitrary requirements....

The world would be a much better place if people were still able to actively identify what actual misogyny and incel/dudebro culture looks like. But it's far too late to save this world, I'd say it went to the dogs nearly fifty years hence but that'd be too big an insult to canis lupus. I'm not a MONSTER.

If misogyny was as everpresent as some seem to see it in every shadowed corner of the globe, then women would have a lot more power and there'd be a hells of a lot less notable men. Decent people fight bigotry, and the effects of such would be clear. The absence of such is tantamount to proof of the contrary viewpoint. It's simple logic, really.