Do people on these forums only complain endlessly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Striker44

I have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. When you need to make stuff up out of thin air to attack someone, it serves only as tacit admittance that you can't actually refute them.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Striker44

Are you suggesting the only possible content in the game are striking dummies or instances? I learn my abilities and how they interact just from normal questing, doing FATEs, etc.. Put simply, you're not likely to get a random average player to spend time at a practice dummy. That's for people who want to absolutely optimize their rotation and maximize their dps for high-level content. For the other 95% of the playerbase, it's pointless.

---

This you ?

Well this thread has turned into childish memes and insults. I guess with the title it was to be expected.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheMightyMollusk

Both sides are full of mass murderers and we're better off without any of them. Change my mind.

---

https://i.imgflip.com/4alari.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Boblawblah

Well this thread has turned into childish memes and insults. I guess with the title it was to be expected.

---

This is why in a decently moderated forum, this thread would have been thrown into the trash before it reached a second page of posts. Meta complaint threads never lead to anything.

One of the newer threads on here that had many pages of replies involved a disturbing amount of people either defending or downplaying attacks from a website that’s infamously known for running intense harassment campaigns against transgender people and their loved ones to the point where some cases have tragically led to suicide, so I really wish that this forum’s moderation team would take far more immediate and quicker action against behavior like that.

I would really like it if the mods also took action against certain (and still active) forum users that continue to purposely misgender transgender people, but seeing how long it took them to finally address some much older (and also extremely large) threads that had dozens of pages of bigoted arguments against the existence (and supported science) of transgender people, I’m skeptical as to how frequently these forums are actively moderated with visible action taken.

The above aren’t the only examples; there’s a lot of toxicity in the General Discussion board in particular that’s not specific to the game, and I think the terms of service needs to have its existing clauses more readily enforced as well as consider having more specific examples of bigotry added to its prohibited actions.

Game discussion is welcome even if I disagree with people sometimes, but there’s definitely a different level of casual toxicity that’s barely (if at all) related to the game that I personally know alienates many other players from posting here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kazhar

You say, while using polls from GameFaqs and Reddit to help with your daily fallacious appeal to majority.
If you want to dismiss a 600 hundred page thread as a complete outlier in your stats, you'd have to admit that the same could be said of many of your own sources and completely made up numbers (Weren't you the clown who, only a few days ago talked about how 95% of players agreed with whatever your stance of the moment was?)
Or you adopt the more reasonable, less hypocritical stance that each social media platform, this one included, represents a certain demographic of players. Square Enix themselves certainly seem to believe that the forums represent something since in some cases (the Hrothgar hairstyle drama), they directly came here to ask the opinion of the playerbase. Not on reddit. Not on gamefaqs. Here.

---

In any decently moderated forum that thread would have been locked a long time ago. Not to silence it or anything like that but because it's simply arguing in circles. After that many pages, nothing new is going to be presented anymore, nothing constructive is coming out of that thread anymore. No one is being convinced by that thread, we've all said our piece. But something like moderation isnt happening on this forum. It already only takes a single person to unearth a thread and all us forum vultures cant help ourselves from ripping into any corpse of a thread. What keeps that particular thread alive is that it is inherently entirely subjective and that nearly everyone can chime in. Talking about taste is a topic that never ends.

I would however be interested in statistics showing how many of the posts in that thread agree or disagree with the title of the thread. Would you want to volunteer finding that out?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saraide

In any decently moderated forum that thread would have been locked a long time ago. Not to silence it or anything like that but because it's simply arguing in circles. After that many pages, nothing new is going to be presented anymore, nothing constructive is coming out of that thread anymore. No one is being convinced by that thread, we've all said our piece. But something like moderation isnt happening on this forum. It already only takes a single person to unearth a thread and all us forum vultures cant help ourselves from ripping into any corpse of a thread. What keeps that particular thread alive is that it is inherently entirely subjective and that nearly everyone can chime in. Talking about taste is a topic that never ends.

I would however be interested in statistics showing how many of the posts in that thread agree or disagree with the title of the thread. Would you want to volunteer finding that out?

---

Except that isn't the case at all, especially given the issues that have appeared with recent story content added in the patches. We voice our thoughts as such content is released. It is also interesting when people present new ideas that let us look at things from new perspectives. Most of us who frequent that thread are in agreement that the story of Endwalker was lackluster and not up to the standards we were expecting. We want the game to do better, for all our sakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Except that isn't the case at all, especially given the issues that have appeared with recent story content added in the patches. We voice our thoughts as such content is released. It is also interesting when people present new ideas that let us look at things from new perspectives. Most of us who frequent that thread are in agreement that the story of Endwalker was lackluster and not up to the standards we were expecting. We want the game to do better, for all our sakes.

---

Can I take this that you are volunteering to categorize and thoroughly analyze every poster in the thread if they are agreeing or disagreeing then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Except that isn't the case at all, especially given the issues that have appeared with recent story content added in the patches. We voice our thoughts as such content is released. It is also interesting when people present new ideas that let us look at things from new perspectives. Most of us who frequent that thread are in agreement that the story of Endwalker was lackluster and not up to the standards we were expecting. We want the game to do better, for all our sakes.

---

Thats very true of any debate or lore topic I think. Opening our minds to ideas and sides to these stories and lore should be one of the great things about open forums/social sites like this. I did post in the 'lackluster' a little back in its early days and it was very enlightening seeing the reasons why people had issues with Venat and the EW story even if I came to very different conclusions... but… I just try and avoid it now. It seems to have more or less evolved into a place less about serious debating, and just the same posters dunking on anyone/anything pro-Venat. Which you know, good for them? I think they even have their own Discord server last I checked too so its nice a community has formed I suppose! I just prefer to stick to more ‘newer’ threads and discussions when the topin of EW's story and Venat comes up because they feel a little more open to all sides.

And it's contagious ! The first symptom is when you start to complain about people that complain ! ... ho no ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElenaRedoran

"Endwalker is badly written because it didn't go the way I wanted it to. Also, I love Emet-Selch and think we shouldn't have stopped him."

"Island Sanctuaries are bad because it's not instanced housing. There's nothing to do after picking up 9700 nodes to reach rank 10 in the first week. What's a workshop?"

"Datamining has ruined the game. These debuff icons reveal everything about the savage raid and will ruin progression. I don't do savage raiding though."

"Why do you say "first time" in a new instance?"

"I got rescued once so please remove the ability from the game. I can't handle losing control over my character. I'm the main character, nobody should be able to mess with my movement but me."

"Crafting is too easy."

"Crafting is too hard."

"Removed from Ex4 by Japanese group. Racist. I queued into a duty complete group and got removed for not knowing what to do."

---

You can practically play a drinking game with how many times a new kaiten-related thread is posted in the DPS forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

You can practically play a drinking game with how many times a new kaiten-related thread is posted in the DPS forums.

---

To be fair, the director did specifically ask for forum feedback regarding Samurai updates, feedback that still hasn’t been acknowledged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MellowMink

To be fair, the director did specifically ask for forum feedback regarding Samurai updates

---

Back in 6.0.
Which was all the way back in December 2021.
And that was 9 months ago.

Quote:

---

feedback that still hasn’t been acknowledged.

---

If they listen to the JP forums so much who also had a megathread, and no change has been made, then that must mean its already been acknowledged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

Back in 6.0.
Which was all the way back in December 2021.
And that was 9 months ago.


If they listen to the JP forums so much who also had a megathread, and no change has been made, then that must mean its already been acknowledged.

---

Yes, and I think that's what MellowMink's referring to. There likely wasn't any feedback on removing kaiten during the 6.0 period 9 months ago. And the subsequent feedback they did get after removing it barely got acknowledged.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Yes, and I think that's what MellowMink's referring to. There likely wasn't any feedback on removing kaiten during the 6.0 period 9 months ago. And the subsequent feedback they did get after removing it barely got acknowledged.

---

i think thats a pretty biased statement to make. there was a response to the kiaten change, the playerbase just didn't like what the change was - and even with that the whole reason kiaten was changed was because of player feedback about the class. and the backlash of that change is probably what lead the dev team to do the reasons for changes short list they brought in with patch 6.2 to explain why they make the changes they do. so barely acknowledged is a bit of a overstatment, imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MellowMink

shrinkage

---

Compared to what prior to the mods being more relaxed?
When certain forum users and discord groups would brigade threads to get people banned?
When certain forum users would deliberately miscontexualize posts, make passive aggressive posts aimed at flaming someone else creating arguements and defensive responses to get them banned?
I have tested those waters of the where are the mods. the thread got deleted. the mods are still here. they just aren't dolling out the arbitrary forum bans anymore because someone called someone else an -ist or a -phobe in a thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chasingstars

You can practically play a drinking game with how many times a new kaiten-related thread is posted in the DPS forums.

---

No thanks, I need my liver.

Quote:

---

So some claim at every possible opportunity, yet the existence of people speaking out against Endwalker and expressing their concerns with the story suggests that it isn't overwhelmingly well received and instead received mixed reactions.

---

Quite frankly, Theodric, I tend to dismiss them for the very same reason you see people staring at great art works or listening to beautiful music, and saying "Yeah I dont see the big deal here". Regardless of quality, regardless how much effort they put in, there are people here who will nitpick holes in ANYTHING given half a chance.

"Mixed reviews"? Only on here.

The snide comments on "how jobs are" is also a joke, as if you ask 400 separate people on how their jobs should be, you will get 400 separate answers, person A will want what person B doesnt, Person C says no not either of these I want this instead..so who do they listen to?

I have played on four separate servers..sorry make that six, and the most negativity I see about Endwalker?

Is HERE.

Im a mentor on Zurvan, i was a mentor on Zalera and on Kujata, each day I saw (and still see ) new players coming in raving about the game and Endwalkers story, they LOVE it.

So, no, actually, the insignificant microcosm that post here do NOT reflect the playerbase in any way..incidentally, theres one other small matter. I read Aveyond's "outline" on what HE wanted on the story..and yet, thats fine..on paper.

Execution is another matter entirely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MellowMink

To be fair, the director did specifically ask for forum feedback regarding Samurai updates, feedback that still hasn’t been acknowledged.

---

you mean acknowledged the way you want it to be acknowledged. Good luck

Execution is ever the matter people are most ignorant of in their suggestions. To try and tell them is to be a white knight for CBU3. :rolleyes:

"They have ample time, money and resources. They should be able to do this thing, especially since those people did this thing." Infrastructure and workforce don't exist. Everything is a click away from appearing on your computer or at your door.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Quite frankly, Theodric, I tend to dismiss them for the very same reason you see people staring at great art works or listening to beautiful music, and saying "Yeah I dont see the big deal here". Regardless of quality, regardless how much effort they put in, there are people here who will nitpick holes in ANYTHING given half a chance.

"Mixed reviews"? Only on here.

The snide comments on "how jobs are" is also a joke, as if you ask 400 separate people on how their jobs should be, you will get 400 separate answers, person A will want what person B doesnt, Person C says no not either of these I want this instead..so who do they listen to?

I have played on four separate servers..sorry make that six, and the most negativity I see about Endwalker?

Is HERE.

Im a mentor on Zurvan, i was a mentor on Zalera and on Kujata, each day I saw (and still see ) new players coming in raving about the game and Endwalkers story, they LOVE it.

So, no, actually, the insignificant microcosm that post here do NOT reflect the playerbase in any way..incidentally, theres one other small matter. I read Aveyond's "outline" on what HE wanted on the story..and yet, thats fine..on paper.

Execution is another matter entirely.

---

official forums not some third party

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deveryn

Execution is ever the matter people are most ignorant of in their suggestions. To try and tell them is to be a white knight for CBU3. :rolleyes:

"They have ample time, money and resources. They should be able to do this thing, especially since those people did this thing." Infrastructure and workforce don't exist. Everything is a click away from appearing on your computer or at your door.

---

You got that right, not to mention that after reading that little screed, I did a brief review, and came to the conclusion that said "outline" would make the MSQ a lot longer..and we are talking hours here. It never ceases to amaze me that people are so clueless as to not realise that you dont just "sit down" and write a "better MSQ"..i cant even BEGIN to assess the logistics in even starting a project like this, nor the needs and requirements of hundreds of people to make it happen.

That cast list at the end of the MSQ? Is who made it happen, both in Japan and overseas...then lets throw the pandemic's wrecking ball into the mix. Aveyond reminds me of a policy I had as a supervisor, come to me with a problem you better have at least two separate possible solutions, because you aint walking up to my desk and just tossing it to me to fix.

"Just do it"

NOTHING is that simple. Nothing.

My GOD the work that must have been involved just to get the damned VOICE ACTORS coordinated.

There was a post earlier on the "dubious claim" the SE staff play the game as we do..and I remember the slight delay to the expac, YoshiP said he played it ALL end to end for extra QA, so did his staff, all of whom have as much passion for the game as he does.

Want to hear the funny part?

IF they had done even HALF of what that guy suggested, the VERY FIRST complaint would be "The MSQ is too long..."

Seriously, it's just ridiculous. Does the game have flaws? Yes, all games do. Nothing is perfect, it never is. But, to be honest? Endwalker has been and is a blast, i loved the MSQ, the theme of "forge ahead" resonates with me heavily, as it did with so many others.

I get there are issues, there always are, but the bloody minded negative attitude here at times beggars belief.

Quote:

---

official forums not some third party

---

Some third party" has been just about every games magazine and website out there

I mentioned Metacritic earlier, they have what is it...over 1300 positive reviews.

Negative?

Quote:

---

If you're looking for a PvP scene in an MMORPG. Final Fantasy is not for you.
If you like drawn out cut scenes and want to play an RPGMMO not an MMORPG, then this game is for you.

---

Awwwww poor little ganker....the rest of the negative reviews?

Were left by people who had login issues at the start...and one guy angry his dps meter wasnt allowed...

Heres one that caught my eye....

Quote:

---

Lack of endgame content : no raid, no expert craft, no tribe reputations.

---

There was endgame content at the start, there was a raid at the start, expert crafts came later with the first tier as they always do, the reputations again came later with the Arkasodara, again as they always have in every expac.

Gamespot

Quote:

---

For all that Endwalker suffers from pacing issues and the sheer amount of plot lines it lobs at us, an earnestness carries the entire story. ( fair comment, I had the same to a point but that didnt detract from the overall experience )

Endwalker is jubilant in its sincerity, and tender in the way it treats life and death, mankinds' inevitable failing and flaws. It doesn't shy away from grand proclamations that would come across as cheesy if it was any other game, with any other cast of characters

But because it's FFXIV and because the Scions are people who accompanied us through Ala Mhigo's revolution, averting the apocalypse on the First, and much more, Endwalker's loud and bold demands for hope, light, and love fall more on the endearing side rather than hamfisted sentimentality

Endwalker is a fitting, emotional conclusion to a years-long journey for us adventurers, and I can't wait to see what's next.

---

Neither can I.

Some of the posts in this thread have me half-tempted to create another rewrite or future expansion concept. I’m someone who quite literally sits down and just does things. So are the devs that went rogue and delivered things to us like Viera/Hrothgar hats along with male Viera when Yoship had no plans to ok or give his approval to any of those projects. Sometimes you just have to do it anyway. Yoship can be wrong about what is best for the game and that’s ok. That’s where other people can provide a fresh perspective, myself included.

I’m quite confident that I can come up with a number of concepts that would appeal to core Final Fantasy fans, especially those whose interests align with mine. I enjoy long games but they have to have stories that are constructed with more care than Endwalker’s was. It wasn’t their best work, and they need to learn from the many mistakes that have occurred in 6.0 and 6.1.

6.2 was able to really start taking the main story seriously with less jokes and out of place slice of life elements, but there are numerous concerns as to what the story will do and what state the world will be left in at the end of these patches. As far as I’m concerned, the best outcome is Golbez winning and permanently benching some of the Scions and for the voidsent hordes to wreck havoc on the Source, with 7.0 taking place in a much-needed high fantasy setting along with a fresh cast that includes Zero, and only Vrtra if he gets new personality traits besides wanting to be with his sister again. After a decade of Alphinaud, the last thing we need is a new “little brother.”

I did create one 7.0 concept already which takes place on a Mist Continent-inspired Meracydia, which can be found here.

https://i.imgur.com/2n6gSJr.png

Quote:

---

Some of the posts in this thread have me half-tempted to create another rewrite or future expansion concept.

---

Yeah and I can write a battle plan for the 34th Armoured Regiment to conquer Mars...only I dont have an army, Im not a General and I dont have any tanks. Oh well.

Quote:

---

As far as I’m concerned, the best outcome is Golbez winning and permanently benching some of the Scions

---

Do they get hamburgers whilst they sit there?

Quote:

---

After a decade of Alphinaud, the last thing I need is a new “little brother.”

---

I dont see any reason to "bench" any of them. What you want? Isnt what others want. You keep harping on this theme, that the Scions need to be "replaced". Why? On what basis? By what metric? By whose lights?

What makes you think that doing this wont be a massive mistake? Whats your premise? Based on.....?

Quote:

---

Yoship can be wrong about what is best for the game and that’s ok. That’s where other people can provide a fresh perspective, myself included.

---

Rightttt..................:D:D:D:D

Going to add to this

Had you forgotten..or didnt you know...that it isnt ONE person writing, its an entire team? That an MMO of this size isnt done by one person alone? That to even BEGIN to create an MSQ like this, it goes through a dozen or more stages, from scripts to storyboards to music to voice actors to overview and revision and rewrite, that EACH stage and EACH scene is worked out in massive detail before pen goes to paper?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

Gonna sound ironic but Can we let this post die? It does nothing but aggravate others and poses literally no purpose and isn’t even game related, just some shill angry that people have opinions.

---

let it die let it die, let it shrivel up and die

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Do they get hamburgers whilst they sit there?

---

Only Golbez gets to munch on a burger.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hagare

Only Golbez gets to munch on a burger.

---

I can see it now. G'raha shows up at the last minute and offers him a burger. He stares at. A little void gate appears and sucks in the burger :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by VelKallor

Some third party" has been just about every games magazine and website out there

I mentioned Metacritic earlier, they have what is it...over 1300 positive reviews.

Negative?



Awwwww poor little ganker....the rest of the negative reviews?

Were left by people who had login issues at the start...and one guy angry his dps meter wasnt allowed...

Heres one that caught my eye....



There was endgame content at the start, there was a raid at the start, expert crafts came later with the first tier as they always do, the reputations again came later with the Arkasodara, again as they always have in every expac.

Gamespot



Neither can I.

---

Well,l here is the the thing with Metacritic, look at the dates of the posts. I found a few of them and they where surprising. Some of the post dates where a day after the expansion released. And you know what ? there positive reviews should not have existed. Hear me out, "Endwalker solidifies FF14s Status as the king of the mmo genre - a masterpiece through and through, put together through years of love, crafted with passion and pure magic." posted a day after the release. keep in mind that end walker was having some issues with log in queues and to top it off the game had a issues based on some bug that was in 1.0. Keep checking the "positive" reviews and notice that some of them only reviewed one game and one game alone. Could that be actually players? yes. Could those be bots just wanting to the review for it? yes but we cannot tell.

You mentioned that you a mentor and all you can see is praise from new players. My question is to you is how many of them did the road to 90 and/or bought the skip potions just to catch up with there friends?

You saying endwalker had endgame at the start? You are going to tell me and everybody here on the release date of endwalker we had trials but not the Pandaemonium that was on the 21st not day one same as the 24 man raid was not a day one . ( the way you word it sounds like it was a day one thing)

Want to talk about story? take the boja story and how that ended. With all the negative feedback of that story we got a cheep ending for it.

Dps meters will not be a thing regardless yoshi himself said that was not going to happen and if that person really believed that on them

PVP thats up to the player. I for one enjoy pvp in this game and i know other people do and yes some do not like them either way feed back is feedback.



And my point of the the official forum is as follows. Every live letter, every real life fanfast he said place feed back in the forums not matter what. Which we did. Every time someone wants to critic this game people are willing to jump downs someone throat and not in the good way. Should we go back on how the community actually attacked a content creator by down voting his video and made death threats on him? When you talk about this game many people have to walk on egg shells.

Heck and if you want a review ill go with ign more than game spot just because it seems like they played it longer than just up to the 21st

It would probably surprise some people to know that Ishikawa is known to have written the base Shadowbringers MSQ by herself for the most part, which begs the question as to what sort of interference and effects the pressure of having to rewrite Endwalker at some point had on the story. Left to her own devices, she was able to deliver a high quality fantasy story that I found highly enjoyable. But when influenced by what is widely believed to be Yoship's directorial oversight, we now have a 680 page megathread that has dissected the many ways in which Endwalker was found wanting.

Perhaps it is best that Yoship sticks to other aspects outside of writing, but given how rigid his vision has been when it comes to character customization and class design it may not be a bad idea for him to retire from FFXIV altogether and focus his energy on projects he is more passionate about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jirah

let it die let it die, let it shrivel up and die

---

Listen some people want the world to burn. and i am one of them

https://c.tenor.com/zAL59Q3m-gUAAAAC...-elmo-meme.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

It would probably surprise some people to know that Ishikawa is known to have written the base Shadowbringers MSQ by herself for the most part, which begs the question as to what sort of interference and effects the pressure of having to rewrite Endwalker at some point had on the story. Left to her own devices, she was able to deliver a high quality fantasy story that I found highly enjoyable. But when influenced by what is widely believed to be Yoship's directorial oversight, we now have a 680 page megathread that has dissected the many ways in which Endwalker was found wanting.

Perhaps it is best that Yoship sticks to other aspects outside of writing, but given how rigid his vision has been when it comes to character customization and class design it may not be a bad idea for him to retire from FFXIV altogether and focus his energy on projects he is more passionate about.

---

Whilst am not going to jump aboard the YoshiP worship bandwagon I, for one, would rather he didn't. I'd hate to see an EP with a more FOMO-minded business model mindset take over.

What else is there to do on these forums?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Yes, and I think that's what MellowMink's referring to. There likely wasn't any feedback on removing kaiten during the 6.0 period 9 months ago. And the subsequent feedback they did get after removing it barely got acknowledged.

---

I was specifically talking about the director asking for people to try out the Patch 6.1 changes and then comment with their feedback on the forums after the patch’s release; that’s the feedback that has never been visibly acknowledged a single time, with the newer patch explanations (which are barely explanations when Dragoon’s 6.2 notes vaguely say “player feedback” without elaborating or providing specific data) also conveniently starting after the more dramatic gameplay changes to several jobs happened.

Welcome to any videogame forum. We come here to complain to the devs.