It's time to revaluate paper crown battlementors

I would have quit this game a couple months in on Famfrit (last autumn) if not for overwhelmingly kind and helpful mentors in novice chat and elsewhere. It's sad that there are obviously some servers/data centers where this is not the case.


I can not overstress how helpful mentors are on Famfrit. Inviting people to groups to go to target dummies and literally teach how to play a job, teach how crafting works etc.

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Originally Posted by Chekopacheko

Seriously, the most toxicity i see towards mentors is from the forum itself

As a mentor who has done as well 2k+ mentor roulettes there's have been few instances where mentors where toxic towards other players, there will always be bad apples out there of course, but as far as i can tell the toxicity level is nowhere as near as some people say it is.

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Have you ever thought the reason you don't see it is because you're a mentor so you rarely get put with other mentors in your roulettes? I've seen plenty of instances of mentors being toxic.

More than once have people told me "Now this is how a mentor should be". So I think I've earned it. I'm not the only one either. The actions of a few don't condemn the whole.

Rarely get put into instances with other mentors? You do realise a lot of this game is 8 man content right? Most things you get thrown into will have 2-3 mentors in them. I also have 7 alts that I play as on different servers and even when I'm playing as a non mentor the issue is the same. This game is not as toxic as you guys seem to think it is. I really don't understand why there is so much hate for mentors.

Mentors are just normal people who like playing the game like the rest of the community. We just have played the game for a lot longer than most. For some reason the people in forums, [not just here] think mentors are all supposed to be these super players and always super polite and this incorrectly creates the situation that when you play with a mentor and they don't say anything or they aren't great at the game they are toxic or trolling. This game has a lot of quiet people and the game is designed for everyone. We're all just here to have fun. If you have any questions just ask the mentor in the group and chances are if it's a general knowledge question or a question about their role they will try and help you out.

Like I said before I will never say anything when people are new not because I'm lazy or toxic but because I want the new players to experience things the way I did back in the day and to find out why the game is worth coming back to.

The mentor system is absolutely fine and does exactly what it is supposed to do. If you have a problem with a toxic player just hit up the support desk and report them and it will be looked into.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Rarely get put into instances with other mentors? You do realise a lot of this game is 8 man content right? Most things you get thrown into will have 2-3 mentors in them. I also have 7 alts that I play as on different servers and even when I'm playing as a non mentor the issue is the same. This game is not as toxic as you guys seem to think it is. I really don't understand why there is so much hate for mentors.

Mentors are just normal people who like playing the game like the rest of the community. We just have played the game for a lot longer than most. For some reason the people in forums, [not just here] think mentors are all supposed to be these super players and always super polite and this incorrectly creates the situation that when you play with a mentor and they don't say anything or they aren't great at the game they are toxic or trolling. This game has a lot of quiet people and the game is designed for everyone. We're all just here to have fun. If you have any questions just ask the mentor in the group and chances are if it's a general knowledge question or a question about their role they will try and help you out.

Like I said before I will never say anything when people are new not because I'm lazy or toxic but because I want the new players to experience things the way I did back in the day and to find out why the game is worth coming back to.

The mentor system is absolutely fine and does exactly what it is supposed to do. If you have a problem with a toxic player just hit up the support desk and report them and it will be looked into.

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Mentors are not normal players, they're given special titles, mounts, and prestige because they're supposed to be exemplars of behavior in the game. Someone going off and yelling at a sprout definitely reflects more on the community if it's a mentor than a random player since they have the crown.

I think the question really is, if there are these bad apples why do the other mentors not say anything? Why do they feel attacked when someone calls out a toxic mentor? Why doesn't the mentor status get revoked from people who act in a toxic way that reflects poorly on the community? Single them out and call them out then if it's just a few bad apples like you say.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Have you ever thought the reason you don't see it is because you're a mentor so you rarely get put with other mentors in your roulettes? I've seen plenty of instances of mentors being toxic.

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You usually get paired with more mentors, specially on Extreme trials ,Alliance raids and trials, but maybe not so much on 4 men dungeons

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

I think the question really is, if there are these bad apples why do the other mentors not say anything? Why do they feel attacked when someone calls out a toxic mentor? Why doesn't the mentor status get revoked from people who act in a toxic way that reflects poorly on the community? Single them out and call them out then if it's just a few bad apples like you say.

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They do say things, but they have to be careful to not be "toxic" to the toxic mentor so sometimes it's easier to just be silent.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Mentors are not normal players, they're given special titles, mounts, and prestige because they're supposed to be exemplars of behavior in the game. Someone going off and yelling at a sprout definitely reflects more on the community if it's a mentor than a random player since they have the crown.

I think the question really is, if there are these bad apples why do the other mentors not say anything? Why do they feel attacked when someone calls out a toxic mentor? Why doesn't the mentor status get revoked from people who act in a toxic way that reflects poorly on the community? Single them out and call them out then if it's just a few bad apples like you say.

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Read your post. Then read the TOS. You cannot harrass anyone, sprout or not in this game. If are being harassed or see someone being harassed just report them. That is why the report system is there. The issue you describe over and over again isn't a toxic mentor issue, it's a toxic player issue. The way you keep making out this narrative is that non mentors can't be toxic.

Mentors are really not special players nor do they have any prestige. They have a badge that you can have beisde your name if you choose to show you are a mentor that you can turn off. I never have mine active, however it is forced on during mentor roulette. The special title is never used by anyone, I can't remember even seeing a single person with it on and the mount is one of the biggest grinds in the game unless you do the roulette once a day for 5 years. [2000 roulettes] I think this is fine for the amount of time that these mentors invest back into the game. I mean that is easily over 500 hours of helping others in combat content.

Please report all issues of toxicity and harrassment to the GMs. They are really quick on the ball in this game and do a great job.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Mentors are not normal players, they're given special titles, mounts, and prestige because they're supposed to be exemplars of behavior in the game. Someone going off and yelling at a sprout definitely reflects more on the community if it's a mentor than a random player since they have the crown.

I think the question really is, if there are these bad apples why do the other mentors not say anything? Why do they feel attacked when someone calls out a toxic mentor? Why doesn't the mentor status get revoked from people who act in a toxic way that reflects poorly on the community? Single them out and call them out then if it's just a few bad apples like you say.

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Mentors are normal players. The requirements are fairly easy to meet and don't require playing well or being helpful. Aside from the commendations, you can get most the requirements by running with trusts. And the commendations are easy to come across if you exist as a healer or tank in a party. If nothing requires you be helpful/nice to get mentor, you're going to get many players that are just in it for the crown next to their name or mount. It's actually been pretty rare I've run into nasty mentors (I know they exist, I came across some recently when doing a mentor roulette on Crystal), but I don't say anything because I don't want to get reported.

If I see a toxic mentor my response is to ignore them and just be as helpful as possible to the sprouts present because they're more important than dealing with a nasty person who's behavior I can't change. For example, 2 days ago when I ran into the toxic mentors on Crystal it was Ramuh EX. The other mentors complained about being in Ramuh, insulted the sprouts for waiting around for spots to fill and snapped at me for offering advice. My response was to pretend the other mentors didn't exist and instead focused on asking the sprouts if they had questions, answered them, and stayed long after we cleared the fight to chat with the sprouts. There's no point in getting into it with other mentors, if they're being rude/toxic they aren't worth my time and I would rather focus my energy on the sprouts. My saying something won't make them rethink their ways.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Read your post. Then read the TOS. You cannot harrass anyone, sprout or not in this game. If are being harassed or see someone being harassed just report them. That is why the report system is there. The issue you describe over and over again isn't a toxic mentor issue, it's a toxic player issue. The way you keep making out this narrative is that non mentors can't be toxic.

Mentors are really not special players nor do they have any prestige. They have a badge that you can have beisde your name if you choose to show you are a mentor that you can turn off. I never have mine active, however it is forced on during mentor roulette. The special title is never used by anyone, I can't remember even seeing a single person with it on and the mount is one of the biggest grinds in the game unless you do the roulette once a day for 5 years. [2000 roulettes] I think this is fine for the amount of time that these mentors invest back into the game. I mean that is easily over 500 hours of helping others in combat content.

Please report all issues of toxicity and harrassment to the GMs. They are really quick on the ball in this game and do a great job.

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Yet many of the toxic players are also toxic mentors. I used to watch in the Siren Novice Network as the toxic mentors there would band together to harass and kick anyone who complained about their "After Dark" sex, drugs and politics discussions while ignoring sprouts who were legitimately asking for help and usually had to rely on other sprouts to get it.

Mentors do get things that some would consider special privilege. Look at all the things you mentioned that come from being a mentor. Even if you don't see any prestige from having any of those things, some players do and it goes to their heads.

They also have responsibilities in exchange for those things, with one of the primary ones being an "exemplar for player behavior". That's where the problem comes in with the toxic mentors come in. They're overly rude while other mentors are so passive as to be invisible.

As you said yourself, you don't even use your crown. It only get forces on if you're using mentor roulette. How would anyone know that you're a mentor that sets a good example unless they happen to encounter you while you're doing mentor roulette? How many other good mentors out there also avoid using their crown?

That leaves the player base mostly seeing the actions of the toxic mentors because they are using their crown so are easily identified as mentors. The mentor system ends up viewed as toxic because so many of the known mentor interactions end up negative.

There's more to being a mentor than using Mentor Roulette to help fill Party in Progress and queues. Mentor Roulette itself is optional.

If the good mentors out there want to show that the system isn't as bad as many in the player base believe based on their negative experiences with those wearing the crown, they need to come out of hiding, wear their crowns and share positive experiences with the player base. They also need to help clean out the toxic mentors from the system. My experience in the Siren Novice Network would never have happened if the good mentors had stepped in to put a stop to it as soon as it started. By the time my character was in it, the bad behavior was entrenched.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Mentors are not normal players[...]

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You're putting the title on a pedestal. You're also describing toxicities that can also be exhibited by just anybody, not just mentors.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

[...]Single them out and call them out then if it's just a few bad apples like you say.

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What makes you think this is what SE wants us to do when they've been (for better or worse) pretty averse at naming any individuals specifically?

So you seen people acting like candy men and you didn't report them? Instead you're just going to blame all mentors and call it a done deal. Seems really professional.

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Originally Posted by Asako

Read your post. Then read the TOS. You cannot harrass anyone, sprout or not in this game. If are being harassed or see someone being harassed just report them. That is why the report system is there. The issue you describe over and over again isn't a toxic mentor issue, it's a toxic player issue. The way you keep making out this narrative is that non mentors can't be toxic.

Mentors are really not special players nor do they have any prestige. They have a badge that you can have beisde your name if you choose to show you are a mentor that you can turn off. I never have mine active, however it is forced on during mentor roulette. The special title is never used by anyone, I can't remember even seeing a single person with it on and the mount is one of the biggest grinds in the game unless you do the roulette once a day for 5 years. [2000 roulettes] I think this is fine for the amount of time that these mentors invest back into the game. I mean that is easily over 500 hours of helping others in combat content.

Please report all issues of toxicity and harrassment to the GMs. They are really quick on the ball in this game and do a great job.

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False.

Mentors should be held to a higher standards than a random joe.

all toxicity is punished, yes, but some toxicity deserves harsher punishment, at the very least revoking mentor roles and not being able to become mentor again for next 1-2 years at least.

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Originally Posted by Bukachu

False.

Mentors should be held to a higher standards than a random joe.
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Maybe you think they should be, but the FFXIV Devs don't and this is their game / their rules.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Maybe you think they should be, but the FFXIV Devs don't and this is their game / their rules.

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NGL I don't follow. Weren't they meant to be the "exemplar of good behaviour" or something?

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

NGL I don't follow. Weren't they meant to be the "exemplar of good behaviour" or something?

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True, but you are trying to heard a flock of cats rather than go directly to the owner of said cats and tell them to fix this mess. In other words, if you want it fixed then ask SE. Asking the playerbase is a pretty tall order, lol.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

NGL I don't follow. Weren't they meant to be the "exemplar of good behaviour" or something?

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Technically speaking this is what the devs believe all players should behave like. That's why we have support desk so players can report harassment and toxicity. For some reason on these forums non mentors seem to think it means they should all be perfect players and divulge all fight mechanics for every fight.

When you sign up to be a mentor it practically says to help sprouts and don't be toxic. That's it. Nothing about being held to a higher standard, nothing about what you have to do. Just do what you would normally do as a veteran player with common sense.

I kinda feel bad for most mentors, most of them trying to help others but get nothing but discrimination and hate on these forums for daring to display a mentor badge.

If people have a problem with mentors then just become one yourself and change the issues you think you are being done wrong. At this point I can only put it down to jealousy and that's sad.

It says...

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As a mentor, you are expected to actively perform the following:

1. Provide gameplay advice for new adventurers and other players.
2. Be an exemplar for player etiquette.
3. Invite new adventurers to the Novice Network, and answer their queries in the chat channel.

• ※Inappropriate mentor behavior may be reported.

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That implies providing gameplay advice in response to a request for advice, not to go around acting smart, nitpicking everyone. It asks mentors to be an examplar of player etiquette (polite), but everyone is already required to be polite.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It says...



That implies providing gameplay advice in response to a request for advice, not to go around acting smart, nitpicking everyone. It asks mentors to be an examplar of player etiquette (polite), but everyone is already required to be polite.

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And most importantly the bottom line is the line a lot of the people complaining forget about. Report people who are acting like candy men. Instead of these people complaing about certain people being toxic they should just report them and let the GM's look into the issue. All chat logs are available to the GM's so they can track any issues.

You could remove the visual marker outside of content like Novice Network and Mentor Roulette. That would be sufficient enough of a change. A sprout isn't going to instantly go for the crowned player over the uncrowned for advice in the wild. They're just going to ask into the aether, and wait for someone to respond.