What's the point with that quite lackluster story in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

You're not supposed to think Venat is evil or stupid, it's been one of your complaints if I recall correctly, and I doubt you're supposed to get the impression that Emet is lying to us here, or maybe missing some solution that he's just not thought of. When both those characters tell you their people couldn't have done better, and they know them far better than we do, then it's a safe bet that they really couldn't have done better.

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Sorry that's not how criticizing story works. The writer can make every single npc to praise venat (as if they haven't already), but people are still allowed to think it's a bad decision she made. Especially when she intentionally deprived the Ancients a veeeeery crucial information. It's just bad writing imo.

It's like if we're reading a romance novel where the couple is clearly in abusive relationship, yet the writer said "see, they love each other and it's fine, they said so themselves". Are we supposed to believe that and cheer for their relationship? I think not.

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Originally Posted by linayar

Ok, maybe this is at the center of our differing views. I don't understand what you mean by both sides are equal. Therefore, I must currently reject the idea of that point having been driven home.

Also, any story implication does not necessitate the treatment of minions one way or another. If they want to make a minion of something, they can. If not, they can choose not to as well.

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The devs themselves have stated that neither side is good or evil, so o find it strange that they would show some bias in regards to venat/hydaelyn and not apply the same to the other side aka Elidibus and Zodiark. It’s not so much the minions(that was just an example) as much as it is the overall writing. They gave us no dialogue choices to even mention Elidibus sacrificing himself for us or labeling Zodiark essentially as the being that was keeping us safe all this time. However, we are constantly told how benevolent venat is and how much she did for us and that’s shown even more via a minion we obtained from her. Where is all of this for the opposing side? It’s just very one-sided and kind of against what the devs have stated previously. If it really were 50/50 on both sides then both sides would receive the same treatment. I brought up the minion thing because to this day we still haven’t even gotten an ascian or zodiark themed minion. Yet they now give us a Venat one…

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The devs themselves have stated that neither side is good or evil, so o find it strange that they would show some bias in regards to venat/hydaelyn and not apply the same to the other side aka Elidibus and Zodiark. It’s not so much the minions(that was just an example) as much as it is the overall writing. They gave us no dialogue choices to even mention Elidibus sacrificing himself for us or labeling Zodiark essentially as the being that was keeping us safe all this time. However, we are constantly told how benevolent venat is and how much she did for us and that’s shown even more via a minion we obtained from her. Where is all of this for the opposing side? It’s just very one-sided and kind of against what the devs have stated previously. If it really were 50/50 on both sides then both sides would receive the same treatment. I brought up the minion thing because to this day we still haven’t even gotten an ascian or zodiark themed minion. Yet they now give us a Venat one…

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The Ascians might have understandable reasons for their actions, but from our perspective, that doesn't make them not bad when we fought them.

In the end, they ended up helping us after their defeat. Meanwhile, Venat was always on our side. So, no, they're not equal in that sense.

Thought it was pretty good to be honest. Hit many similar beats to Shadowbringers.

Can't help but feel as if for a lot of people Shadowbringers was baby's first JRPG storyline and it looked all bright, new shiny and 'omg I've never seen these tropes before'. I mean, it was really good to see in an MMORPG storyline but it wasn't the best thing since sliced bread.

In some ways, I actually think Endwalker is a step up and I didn't think they could pull it off. It was entirely unpredictable and I feel like my expectations were subverted in a good way. It has all of the traditional FF ingredients to success - from war and horror to cute moon rabbits.

Not only did they wrap up the 'Ascian Saga' but they've even left open elements of it for further world building or elaboration; see pandaemonium, the 13th, remaining sundered ascians, etc. They dealt their hand without throwing away the whole deck.
I hated Zenos in Stormblood, partially because I feel as if the character writing was a little all over the place during that expansion. I quite like him here. He's more understandable and this was one of the best ways they could have tied up his story arc. It's made me retroactively appreciate him and brought some consistency to his character.

Some things I think they could've done 'objectively' better are -

- less skimping out on the voice acting.

- more exposition of the horrific final days, maybe kill off a few minor nps or show them as missing afterwards, make it more impactful. It kind of felt like a wet fart. I understand that's difficult to do though.
I don't really have anything else to add beyond that without venturing into spoiler territory.

Don't understand this whole 'omg y didn't they kill off a character' shit. I mean sure, yeah, if they could do it in a meaningful way then that'd be great. Expecting Thancred to never come back after blinking out is a bit silly though, same with what happened afterwards. When it 'kind of' happened with Minfillia, does nobody else remember how bizarre and jarring that was? Lol. You -really- have to make a character's death a bit more impactful and meaningful, with some foreshadowing sprinkled in.

I'd have personally killed off Urianger, because he had a very emotional arc this time around and I half-expected him to follow in Louisoix and Papalymo's footsteps. I could come up with a few ways to do that, especially in the final battle against Endsinger. But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

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And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

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Originally Posted by Kozh

And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

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Yeah...who could forget how we totally "trounced" Zenos and the Empire when they first invaded Rhalgr's Reach in Stormblood. Or how the Eulmoran army were totally "running with their tails between their legs" during that first major battle in Lakeland.

It hasnt been all victories, the difference is that us and Scions are persistent enough to move forward and do better.

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Originally Posted by linayar

The Ascians might have understandable reasons for their actions, but from our perspective, that doesn't make them not bad when we fought them.

In the end, they ended up helping us after their defeat. Meanwhile, Venat was always on our side. So, no, they're not equal in that sense.

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Doesn’t change the fact about Zodiark though, or Elidibus. I wouldn’t say Venat was always on our side technically either if we equate ourselves to original Azem, whom she had also essentially betrayed and sundered. It depends on the perspective, but even so, it’s strange that the devs themselves state what the stance is on these things but still play favorites it seems. I just wish there was equality for both sides and not favoritism heavily skewed to one side. Seems like it’s always the pretty feminine characters that get the sympathy and fanservice whereas the more demonic looking ones (zodiark) get the short end of the stick, hence my comment about their appearances.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

Some things I think they could've done 'objectively' better are -

- less skimping out on the voice acting.

- more exposition of the horrific final days, maybe kill off a few minor nps or show them as missing afterwards, make it more impactful. It kind of felt like a wet fart. I understand that's difficult to do though.
I don't really have anything else to add beyond that without venturing into spoiler territory.

Don't understand this whole 'omg y didn't they kill off a character' shit. I mean sure, yeah, if they could do it in a meaningful way then that'd be great. Expecting Thancred to never come back after blinking out is a bit silly though, same with what happened afterwards. When it 'kind of' happened with Minfillia, does nobody else remember how bizarre and jarring that was? Lol. You -really- have to make a character's death a bit more impactful and meaningful, with some foreshadowing sprinkled in.

I'd have personally killed off Urianger, because he had a very emotional arc this time around and I half-expected him to follow in Louisoix and Papalymo's footsteps. I could come up with a few ways to do that, especially in the final battle against Endsinger. But as Alisaie has said repeatedly 'no more heroic sacrifices'. They're often times extremely overdone and add nothing but 'oh that person died, wow that's edgy'. You can only pull so many of the same trick out of a hat before people get accustomed to it.

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--Think So? Maybe Im just no memorizing it correctly, but I felt like they did more Voice Acting this time around.
Plus we still have Post, so there might be even more Voice Acting.

--You mean like a Cutscene that shows the moment it happened and all the death and destruction unfold before our eyes?
Thinking about it, it might have been an interesting Spectacle similar to the Great ARR Opening/1.0 Ending. But part of me feels like...idk we dont really need to see the destruction. Or if they were gonna do it, they should have done it back in Shadowbringers. I think it would have made more sense then.

--The whole Killing off a Character thing for some people I think; wither they'll admit it or not, is just a weird thrill for them. I think calling it a Kink might be going to far. Some people just like Death and find it exciting.
Without Purpose and Meaning, I think its just silly and cheap. Nobody needs to die, and it wouldn't make the story any more interesting, unless there is a reason. You don't just kill off a character just to be edgy. You kill them off if they serve their purpose, or if there is a Purpose to the Death; like a Motivation, or a Redemption arc.
Like if anybody was actually going to Die, I thought it would be Alphi. That stupid good Trailer really made me think that was it for him. And I personally think it might have been a good exit for him.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

And it's also applied for opposite. There's only so many fake out death and plot armor to protect the protagonists before it gets tiring.

That aside... I actually can stand having the characters not dying, but what I can't stand is us, the WoL and the scions, to be always in the winning and righteous side, no matter what the situation was. We never been on the losing side, never been on the morally grey side, always been the bastion and pinnacle of morality, can come up with any solutions that doesn't require them to be the "villains". I wish for more uldah banquet type of situation, where we were on the defensive side. After HW, all we get at most is "being mildly inconvenient during the expansion and being victorious in the end anyway".

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In regards to the Scions and where plot armor is concerned that's probably because there's still stories to be told concerning them as individuals later down the line. FF and JRPGs especially aren't particularly great when it comes to moral ambiguity on the 'whole', there are some exceptions but for the FF series in-particular, any moral greyness is usually on the part of the opposing side while the heroes are always morally righteous. I imagine it's even harder to create a storyline like that for FFXIV because they're limited by the medium of an MMORPG.

What I will say is that in regards to FFXIV, there's a lot of times when the pressure is on and our actions have world or country spanning consequences, which keeps things rather amusing. A big part of Endwalker was fighting against despair itself, rather than just pitting hero against villain. The mental scars will probably sting many of the Scions for quite a while, if not our own character.

Since the story is moving away from the Scions now, we might be introduced to a more motley crew of more morally nuanced characters but given what I said before, especially where Square Enix is concerned, I don't think we're going to get it but then again, I don't really think morality is one of the core themes they've been going with and the ending to Endwalker really hit that home.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Yeah, kinda hard to when they didn't even know about Meteion, cause someone didn't bother telling them...

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He knows about Meteion when he says that.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Sorry that's not how criticizing story works. The writer can make every single npc to praise venat (as if they haven't already), but people are still allowed to think it's a bad decision she made. Especially when she intentionally deprived the Ancients a veeeeery crucial information. It's just bad writing imo.

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'I think the story does a terrible job of explaining why Venat didn't go the Convocation' is criticizing the story.

'If Venat had told the Convocation about Meteion, then they'd have all come up with a solution together and saved the Unsundered world' is essentially fan-fiction.

Justice for our boy Brodiark.

I was told FF14's story was the greatest thing around. That if I would spend time on it, I'd come out happier than ever. Friends would ask me time and time again "Are you loving it?"

In the end, all I learned is my opinion is not wanted. I get it, no one likes to have something they enjoy spoken ill of. That's fine.

If you love the story, more power to you. I don't, and I'd honestly rather not be forced through it. I just want to play the game. And that means not being errand/postal service boy for hours of my time.

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Originally Posted by Scryar

Where exactly did I write that there can't be a good story without character deaths?

I still can criticize certain aspects and think that they cheapen a story while liking and thinking it's good overall.

I get that many people want to play a flawless hero in shining armor saving the world power fantasy but I never felt FF as a whole was about that. At least in the the FF I played there were always loses and sacrifices on both sides.
Worst of all the writers are constantly using characters deaths as bait. The huge amount of fake deaths during the course of the game has become a meme at this point. For me and I'm sure many others supposed deaths of scions don't even trigger any emotion anymore (which kinda defeats their purpose) because I know that they will be fine and surprise , surprise....that's exactly what happens every single time after Hw.

It also doesn't make sense sometimes. Let's get back to the Zenos scene again. All that Zenos want's is our attention, our rage and anger. And yet he is trying really hard to avoid doing something that would give him exactly that, like killing one of our friends.
He, one of the most powerful beings in the body of the WOL get's stopped and knocked over by a level 10 paladin who could barely defeat tempered soldiers earlier.
That scene was so absurd that the whole body change part felt pointless and cringe. I didn't even expect him to kill a scion as everybody knows by now that they have a ridiculous amount of plot armor but not even a B character? What was even the point of that whole scene? Showing that Zenos is incapable of getting what he want's even if it's served on a silver plate?
Or take the ending in Ultima Thule and all the "sacrifices" accompanied with emotional speeches from the Scions only to return 30 minutes later. What kind of sacrifice is that?
Emet's look when Hythlodaeus left to be sacrificed to Zodiark has a way bigger emotional impact on me then all the fake sacrifices of the scions during the Ultima Thule arc. Because the former had consequences even 5000 years later while the latter was forgotten after 30min , as if nothing happened.

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Who ever said the WoL is flawless? You can only ever come to this conclusion is if Endwalker was the first part of FFxiv you ever played. This also throws everything the WoL and his friends faced, did and lost before endwalker right out the window just because it doesn't fit the point you are trying to make of the expansion. That nothing ever bad happens to the WoL and he or she has never made a mistake. Hey, lets use this broken logic and use it in other stories like Star Wars: Return of the Jedi and just say the same thing you did here. Nobody dies and Luke Skywalker is flawless based on Return of the Jedi story alone. Let's ignore every other movie before this, just focus on Return of the Jedi.

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Originally Posted by Stachiko

I was told FF14's story was the greatest thing around. That if I would spend time on it, I'd come out happier than ever. Friends would ask me time and time again "Are you loving it?"

In the end, all I learned is my opinion is not wanted. I get it, no one likes to have something they enjoy spoken ill of. That's fine.

If you love the story, more power to you. I don't, and I'd honestly rather not be forced through it. I just want to play the game. And that means not being errand/postal service boy for hours of my time.

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The story is the game. That's never going to change. Nothing wrong with not liking it. No different than a movie, music, or food.

Some people like it, some don't. It's ok either way.

I disliked the reuse of time travel, especially mixing the "multiverse time travel" of ShB with "closed loop" time travel the very next expansion.
I disliked shoving Zenos in our face for literally no reason.
I disliked how we finally visited the Garlean empire and it was...an empty zone. With no Gaius.
I disliked how our benevolent goddess apparently purposefully doomed her entire world and countless others, because the WoL was like really, really cool when they chatted, once.
I disliked wasting so much time in the pointless zone of Thavnair.

Basically, if you killed Thavnair, wrote out Zenos earlier (or tasked him with something to do), gave us a fully fleshed Garlean campaign, and made the time travel an echo instead of a kludge, it would have been a really strong expansion. Instead it was a muddled mess.

"Venat doomed the world by not telling her people about Meteion" This has to be one of the most sheltered, lives in their own bubble response I have seen constantly in this thread. I could easily look at any social media, see how people who don't take the poke are seen as evil for having an opposing opinion. Then the people in this forum just assume that the odd personality, former Azem crystal holder who is known to be quirky, is being super cereal about Meteion. There is nothing in the game that can support the theory that they will accept this information and is literally created out of thin air based on their head cannon alone. The ancients lived sheltered, they acted sheltered when the world wasn't perfect. They didn't hesitate to sacrifice lives to keep their security blanket. Maybe have some actual info that supports the claim that the Ancients would of believed Venat before jumping to your own conclusive head cannon info.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

"Venat doomed the world by not telling her people about Meteion" This has to be one of the most sheltered, lives in their own bubble response I have seen constantly in this thread. I could easily look at any social media, see how people who don't take the poke are seen as evil for having an opposing opinion. Then the people in this forum just assume that the odd personality, former Azem crystal holder who is known to be quirky, is being super cereal about Meteion. There is nothing in the game that can support the theory that they will accept this information and is literally created out of thin air based on their head cannon alone. The ancients lived sheltered, they acted sheltered when the world wasn't perfect. They didn't hesitate to sacrifice lives to keep their security blanket. Maybe have some actual info that supports the claim that the Ancients would of believed Venat before jumping to your own conclusive head cannon info.

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Didn't Venat show us magic that would show what happened in a particular place (kind of like the echo?). How hard would it be for her to show Emet and Hyth what happened at several locations to prove what she said was true? She had a tracker on Metion. There had to be research records on Metions design. People keep acting like it's just Venat's word against everyone. There is evidence and there are witnesses... we spent our whole time in Elpis finding it. The memwipe was a cheesy gimmick, imo. Emet and Hyth believed us... why wouldn't they believe Venat? Heck... wouldn't a cursory look at the Krono or whatever it was called show there was no malfunction?

Let's also not forget the warning could have come BEFORE the final days even started, lending credibility to the claim.... it's not like she had to wait until catastrophe hit to tell anyone.

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Originally Posted by Lily_Skye

Annoying bait post.

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This is actually annoying, can you stop? Not every single person is gonna like the games story.
Stop thinking every single opinion is a troll/bait post.
I don't like EW story almost at all.
I stopped caring with Zodiark at being level 83, so I highly agree with OP.
I don't like how we were neck and neck with Garlemeld for years, only to be patched up within 2 hours of gameplay.

This game in EW suffers pacing issues, bad. Just like it did in SB. Instead of chumming everything into ONE SINGLE PATCH.
It shoulda been spread out until the VERY end. The Moon was massive disappointment. I love the bunnies as much as the next
person but it's just really odd, hanging with bunnies then turn around 3 seconds later and Zodiark who "isn't at his full powaaa"
is a boss. Inb4 they bring him back at 100% and we fight him at the end. I just hate this all wrapped up in one patch then let's
do some rando side stuff at the end. If they stopped rushing the story, it'll be tailored better.
I don't care about Herme's and his tiny goth birb waifu who turned evil because reasons.
Besides Zodiark, Garlemeld was the biggest disappointment, really wish they did more with it but alas.

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Originally Posted by Millybonk

• The true cause of the Final Days is a pet-project from an ancient which goes mad after observing countless dead world and possibly causing the death of several world by projecting negative emotions unto them, and is thus dead-set on bringing despair to every world, upon which said ancient goes mad and is now letting her run her course to test humanity if they can withstand/fight despair

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Yeah i kinda couldnt believe that this is the cause of all our Troubles. Who would ever think it a good idea to send a child like entity with all those powers the ancients barely understand themselves into the Galaxy. It is no shock that a Child like Being would go totally mad at the sight of whats going on in the universe but somehow Hermes thought it a good idea. This in turn makes me question the sanity of the ancients in the first place.

EW was okay, but is no match for Shadowbringers. The Devs just managed to get a lot of emotional bits into the story so a lot of people claim it to be good for the lack of being able to see things in a neutral or analytic way.

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Originally Posted by Jybril

This is actually annoying, can you stop? Not every single person is gonna like the games story.
Stop thinking every single opinion is a troll/bait post.
I don't like EW story almost at all.
I stopped caring with Zodiark at being level 83, so I highly agree with OP.
I don't like how we were neck and neck with Garlemeld for years, only to be patched up within 2 hours of gameplay.

This game in EW suffers pacing issues, bad. Just like it did in SB. Instead of chumming everything into ONE SINGLE PATCH.
It shoulda been spread out until the VERY end. The Moon was massive disappointment. I love the bunnies as much as the next
person but it's just really odd, hanging with bunnies then turn around 3 seconds later and Zodiark who "isn't at his full powaaa"
is a boss. Inb4 they bring him back at 100% and we fight him at the end. I just hate this all wrapped up in one patch then let's
do some rando side stuff at the end. If they stopped rushing the story, it'll be tailored better.
I don't care about Herme's and his tiny goth birb waifu who turned evil because reasons.
Besides Zodiark, Garlemeld was the biggest disappointment, really wish they did more with it but alas.

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....You had this much to say about a "This is Bait" Picture?
You took a Joke This Seriously?

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

....You had this much to say about a "This is Bait" Picture?
You took a Joke This Seriously?

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I was actually adding onto the discussion of the entire topic, I'm sure you knew that.
Only like the first two sentences were directed at her. Nice try.

You guys get extremely hostile when someone says one thing they don't like about this game and it's annoying.
What's the point of the forum if the first thing people are gonna is call you a troll for it? I'm not sure what's worse this or Reddit.
You can barely discuss on here without getting sent to the stake LOL.

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Originally Posted by Rulakir

The official forums is one of the few places I've seen others say they feel safe posting critical feedback and even here I see people are trying to shut down conversation. I've been PMed on Reddit by people telling me they didn't like EW and can't express themselves because they'll be downvoted into oblivion if they do. One person told me you'll get dog piled on if you say anything negative in the official discord. Frankly, if you don't want to read opinions about EW that aren't positive you have a lot of options. Let people who didn't like it discuss it.

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This person has it right.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

He knows about Meteion when he says that.

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Great comeback!
Yeah and he and the people he refers to are all dead long before they knew about her. :confused:
Hard to do better when you're dead.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Great comeback!
Yeah and he and the people he refers to are all dead long before they knew about her. :confused:
Hard to do better when you're dead.

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Wait, you think when Emet says their methods would not have brought mankind this far, he means because they were already dead?

That's a fairly unique take.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Wait, you think when Emet says their methods would not have brought mankind this far, he means because they were already dead?

That's certainly different.

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It's because they literally did not know of the threat's origin whatsoever, so like how could they have done better?

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

It's because they literally did not know of the threat's origin whatsoever, so like how could they have done better?

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He knows of the threats origin when he says that though, the threats origin is stood right in front of him, he was literally just talking to the threats origin before he says it.

At that point, he knows what they were facing, and he knows what they could have done, and his assessment of their chances is not good.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

He knows of the threats origin when he says that though, the threats origin is stood right in front of him, he was literally just talking to the threats origin before he says it.

At that point, he knows what they were facing, and he knows what they could have done, and his assessment of their chances is not good.

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Who cares that he knows at this point, they're literally all dead. They couldn't do better because they weren't even given the chance. Literally only Venat and the time-travelling WoL knew about Meteion, ergo there was no opportunity at all to do anything about it at any point while they were alive.

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Originally Posted by HollowedDoll

Who cares that he knows at this point, they're literally all dead. They couldn't do better because they weren't even given the chance. Literally only Venat and the time-travelling WoL knew about Meteion, ergo there was no opportunity at all to do anything about it at any point while they were alive.

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He's saying they wouldn't have succeeded even if they'd have had the opportunity to do something about it.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

He's saying they wouldn't have succeeded even if they'd have had the opportunity to do something about it.

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Hermes literally memwipes them to prevent them from chasing down and destroying Metion. There's no reason to believe they couldn't/wouldn't given knowledge of what happened. (Or at the very least prepare defense)

In fact, that act is evidence that they would, imo.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Yeah i kinda couldnt believe that this is the cause of all our Troubles. Who would ever think it a good idea to send a child like entity with all those powers the ancients barely understand themselves into the Galaxy. It is no shock that a Child like Being would go totally mad at the sight of whats going on in the universe but somehow Hermes thought it a good idea. This in turn makes me question the sanity of the ancients in the first place.

EW was okay, but is no match for Shadowbringers. The Devs just managed to get a lot of emotional bits into the story so a lot of people claim it to be good for the lack of being able to see things in a neutral or analytic way.

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To add insult to injury Hermes is the head of testing facility that determines if their creations are suitable to be release into their world

A project with no peer reviews,
Have little knowledge in that field,
Not to mention Hermes have not equipped/trained meterion for the mission
The whole Elpis/Hermes plot is one of the biggest let down in EW for me

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Originally Posted by Jybril

Not every single person is gonna like the games story. Stop thinking every single opinion is a troll/bait post.
I don't like EW story almost at all.
I stopped caring with Zodiark at being level 83, so I highly agree with OP.
I don't like how we were neck and neck with Garlemeld for years, only to be patched up within 2 hours of gameplay.

This game in EW suffers pacing issues, bad. Just like it did in SB. Instead of chumming everything into ONE SINGLE PATCH.
It shoulda been spread out until the VERY end. The Moon was massive disappointment. I love the bunnies as much as the next
person but it's just really odd, hanging with bunnies then turn around 3 seconds later and Zodiark who "isn't at his full powaaa"
is a boss. Inb4 they bring him back at 100% and we fight him at the end. I just hate this all wrapped up in one patch then let's
do some rando side stuff at the end. If they stopped rushing the story, it'll be tailored better.
I don't care about Herme's and his tiny goth birb waifu who turned evil because reasons.
Besides Zodiark, Garlemeld was the biggest disappointment, really wish they did more with it but alas.

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The bold stuff I agree with. The italicized I think you are remembering the events in the incorrect order. I would have preferred to hang out with the bunnies and then fight zodiark. The way the game worked we defeated zodiark and initiated the final days. Then We were stuck learning about bunnys and the plan to get everyone off the planet, but that whole time I kept thinking I wanna see the final days lets go.

Personally I like Garlemalds plot, I think it was my favorite part of EW because the plot was so dark there. The zone itself was very bland and empty which fits the narrative of the plot as it gave it a eerie feel. Although it fits a narrative though the zone could have had more going on with it.

Over all the story has good points and bad points and does suffer from a pacing problem. I almost feel that the story was changed midway through development or through the writing. When you see the trailer vs the product they don't look at that similar. Where garlemald has this large scale war and void monsters flying around attacking airships, but we enter the game to the aftermath of that.
Thavnair feels like it was there just for an area to kill characters off that would not cause any controversy with the player base like what happened when Nanamo was killed off. It felt really off that we had an expansion that was about the apocalypse and we really did not see much apocalypse and all the characters that were previously relevant in the plot all survived. The prepatch to Stormblood an expansion based around war killed off a scion so I find it just odd.
Anima feels like it was used as fan service bait skin, as the story behind anima really fit with what anima was specially when you compare it to the magus sisters.

These are all just my opinions though.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

There's no reason to believe they couldn't/wouldn't given knowledge of what happened. (Or at the very least prepare defense)

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And yet Emet's own words paint a different picture.

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Originally Posted by Haru304

In regards to the Scions and where plot armor is concerned that's probably because there's still stories to be told concerning them as individuals later down the line.

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What exactly did Yshtola do of significance this expansion outside of the Ultima Thule snippet? Because i for the life of me can’t think of anything she really did outside of reading some books but maybe i missed something, but she seemed like the character the most that was just…there. Urianger had the rabbits, Thancred had the garlemald infiltration, Krile alisaie and alphinaud had sharlayan. But what exactly did Yshtola do that any of the others couldn’t have done in her place?

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

And yet Emet's own words paint a different picture.

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Or do they? As this poster pointed out...

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Except besides those lines of dialogue, everything else points otherwise. Why wouldn’t they be able to hone their dynamis skills? We know they were able to manipulate it as they use limit breaks in the dungeon. Hermes was able to create a familiar who could interact with it. They had an entire facility again, they could use to hone their skills. They’re commenting on it as how they see it now. Considering they never even got the chance to try, they don’t know for certain. Keep in mind this is the Emet that toiled centuries to being about a rejoining. The rejoining methods would not have brought them that far that is correct. Venat telling them originally what was going on might have. What we know points to them having at least had the right tools, it was a matter of using them. Venat is the one who gambled everything on a single person and had forsaken her own people so i’m not really going to even address her thoughts as she’s the one who kept secrets from them in the first place.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Hermes literally memwipes them to prevent them from chasing down and destroying Metion. There's no reason to believe they couldn't/wouldn't given knowledge of what happened. (Or at the very least prepare defense)

In fact, that act is evidence that they would, imo.

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I wouldn't say no reason. Emet gets the knowledge of what happened, and says they wouldn't have done as well. That's a pretty good reason to be fair.

For him to be wrong, we have to buy into the idea that he gets the knowledge of what happened, and the idea of just chasing down the Metia and destroying them never even occurs to him. That seems highly improbable.

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Originally Posted by Neotempest

"Venat doomed the world by not telling her people about Meteion" This has to be one of the most sheltered, lives in their own bubble response I have seen constantly in this thread. I could easily look at any social media, see how people who don't take the poke are seen as evil for having an opposing opinion. Then the people in this forum just assume that the odd personality, former Azem crystal holder who is known to be quirky, is being super cereal about Meteion. There is nothing in the game that can support the theory that they will accept this information and is literally created out of thin air based on their head cannon alone. The ancients lived sheltered, they acted sheltered when the world wasn't perfect. They didn't hesitate to sacrifice lives to keep their security blanket. Maybe have some actual info that supports the claim that the Ancients would of believed Venat before jumping to your own conclusive head cannon info.

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The game itself told us this, as Emet Selch committed himself to track down a fanciful sounding threat from the mere familiar of a quirky person, even though it portrayed him as a mass murderer. The guy tasked with ferreting out every and any threat to the star isn't going to say "Well I was just memory wiped and you're telling me a story that fits the facts, but no way you're just too quirky LOL."

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I wouldn't say no reason. Emet gets the knowledge of what happened, and says they wouldn't have done as well. That's a pretty good reason to be fair.

For him to be wrong, we have to buy into the idea that he gets the knowledge of what happened, and the idea of just chasing down the Metia and destroying them never even occurs to him. That seems highly improbable.

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I took his comment as referring to their rejoining plan not succeeding, not the convocation being able to mitigate Meteion thousands of years ago with actual advance notice.

You should also note that the conversation was a pep talk to the WoL. If you're building up your champion to succeed, you're not going to start pointing fingers and second-guessing at that juncture. Of course the WoL will be told that her cause is just and righteous, the best and only option.

Still waiting for someone to explain to me what Yshtola did this expansion that was so substantial it warranted not killing her off. Anyone?

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Still waiting for someone to explain to me what Yshtola did this expansion that was so substantial it warranted not killing her off. Anyone?

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Pretty sure they've eluded to her several times as wanting to work on a method of traversing to the other reflections, pretty sure that's something she's wanting to spearhead. Which to me if it is then in the grand scheme of the story itself going forward can be a very significant thing.

Arguably in terms of merit they could have just quite easily killed anyone off. Not sure about the whole shtick with Y'shtola specifically.

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Originally Posted by Kaurhz

Pretty sure they've eluded to her several times as wanting to work on a method of traversing to the other reflections, pretty sure that's something she's wanting to spearhead. Which to me if it is then in the grand scheme of the story itself going forward can be a very significant thing.

Arguably in terms of merit they could have just quite easily killed anyone off. Not sure about the whole shtick with Y'shtola specifically.

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I was specifying her because the other charcaters at least had something somewhat significant they were doing this expansion. But i cant for the life of me think of anything she did this expansion of substantial value.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I was specifying her because the other charcaters at least had something somewhat significant they were doing this expansion. But i cant for the life of me think of anything she did this expansion of substantial value.

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Their sole measure shouldn't be based solely on the given fact of what they do this expansion, or have done this expansion, but their planned endeavours for her going forward. Which if she's planning to work on a method for traversing the reflections is pretty darn significant. Given how late their eluded deaths were, then beyond that immediate point none of them really served any significant purpose anyway. So in reality they could have killed off any one of the scions. Besides the more they done and contributed up towards that point would have made for a much more impactful and surprising death.