I thought people might be exaggerating about SMN

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Imagine rubbing in that you have 5 buttons.

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You do know that they could just give all of the summoners' skills their own hotbar, instead of placing them all in 2 spells and you will have the same amount of spells as other jobs?

Or they could also reduce the button bloat on other jobs' combos into one button like in pvp and they will almost have the same amount of skills as the summoner?

Imagine complaining having less skill slots to use, because they compressed 6 skills into 2 skills slots.

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Originally Posted by Ralts

You do know that they could just give all of the summoners' skills their own hotbar, instead of placing them all in 2 spells and you will have the same amount of spells as other jobs?

Or they could also reduce the button bloat on other jobs' combos into one button like in pvp and they will almost have the same amount of skills as the summoner?

Imagine complaining having less skill slots to use, because they compressed 6 skills into 2 skills slots.

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They could also just give you Ruin and summoning a primal gives you a buff that says "Turns Ruin Yellow / Red / Green" and it'd effectively be the same as current.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

They could also just give you Ruin and summoning a primal gives you a buff that says "Turns Ruin Yellow / Red / Green" and it'd effectively be the same as current.

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Like blm; use up your mana then change to ice then back to fire? Or maybe paladin which is telling you what button to press next?
I dunno man. It's their supposed rotation now. Every job has their own rotation in this game.

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Originally Posted by Ralts

Like blm; use up your mana then change to ice then back to fire? Or maybe paladin which is telling you what button to press next?
I dunno man. It's their supposed rotation now. Every job has their own rotation in this game.

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BLM managing their mana is already light years more depth then current SMN, so...?

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

BLM managing their mana is already light years more depth then current SMN, so...?

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Ok? They have their own difficulty level. The new summoner is beginner friendly. Eh, whatever. You win. There were good critiscism in this thread, but this kind of back and forth is not for me. I hope you get to enjoy the new smn, or atleast find a class that will suit you until the next expansion. Bye :)

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Originally Posted by Ralts

Like blm; use up your mana then change to ice then back to fire? Or maybe paladin which is telling you what button to press next?
I dunno man. It's their supposed rotation now. Every job has their own rotation in this game.

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The difference is that BLM has a reason to want to switch which spell they use. SMN has no reason to cast anything besides one specific spell and no rotational differences to even try besides straight up not using the gemshine abilities (fancy ruin). BLM can do things like the paradox rotation and never even touch fire4, and even on the normal rotation they cast several tiers of spells across the rotation. We just use the Ruin available to us at that level and dont even have ruin 2 anymore as another option.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

The difference is that BLM has a reason to want to switch which spell they use. SMN has no reason to cast anything besides one specific spell and no rotational differences to even try besides straight up not using the gemshine abilities (fancy ruin). BLM can do things like the paradox rotation and never even touch fire4, and even on the normal rotation they cast several tiers of spells across the rotation. We just use the Ruin available to us at that level and dont even have ruin 2 anymore as another option.

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So you aren't using you're astral flow abilities at all? well there is your problem

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

So you aren't using you're astral flow abilities at all? well there is your problem

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there are 3 non-oGCD astral flow abilities a minute, 8.5s of things that don't just feel like ruin spam.

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Originally Posted by StriderMaxwell

Looks up level 80 Summoner who has never downed an extreme or savage boss, u wot.

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First, I'm not 80 on my SMN. No idea whose character you are looking at but it isn't mine. Second, clearing savage content has absolutely zero relevance to the OP. Implying that only people who clear the bleeding edge content have a right to an opinion on class design is asinine.

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

Pardon, but I happened to look up your character, and you seem to be doing Savage on Samurai and not Summoner. So, how exactly would you know how Summoner plays in Savage?

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I did Extremes on my smn and since I already know mechanics in savage raids (in first two at least), I'm pretty sure what to expect there on smn. It maybe not that hard to play current summoner, but saying "use whatever is available without consequence" is just not true. Also did you check other players in this thread on savage progress?

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Originally Posted by skooma_dealer

I did Extremes on my smn and since I already know mechanics in savage raids (in first two at least), I'm pretty sure what to expect there on smn. It maybe not that hard to play current summoner, but saying "use whatever is available without consequence" is just not true. Also did you check other players in this thread on savage progress?

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Unlikely. They checked your progress because you brought it up.

Delaying or pushing abilities isn't exactly SMN specific. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the way you said that gives off the impression that only people that make savage prog can know if a job is interesting. Beyond ST or AOE and Ifrit movement considerations there isn't much. Movement with mechanics is kind of one of those things every job deals with, some better than others. As is, it's really not a big deal for SMN since you have the option of doing a different one during that time (Which is one of the good things about this iteration). In the weird situation that you do get stuck with Ifrit's combo you just lose GCDs and it sucks, because Ruin 2 is gone now, which was the on demand "I messed up" or "I need to move here" button.

Anyway, I'd like to see more meaningful reason to chose summons in situations, not just "Ifrit gonna do me dirty here". Right now we are locked with Fire Wind and Earth attunement on our job gauge, so either those are placeholders, or this is all we are getting. Had the job mechanics approached the way in which you summon these three differently and they had more reason beyond movement to summon, I would be more hopeful for the future of the job.

I mean, we shall see, it could become great at some far off distant future or it could just you know... stay as it is. As of right now though it's kind of stale and unfulfilling in my opinion. Especially coming off of Shadowbringers iteration, which despite some people hating, was actually very satisfying, at least to me, when you got around it's quirks and got better at wielding it.

Idk, I think it's fun as heck compared to previous iterations. Is it braindead to the point where a macro can mostly execute the entire rotation? Yeah. And that's going to turn off a lot of players who were used to the more complex SMN rotations of eld, but I find current SMN really fun.

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Originally Posted by Imoen

Correct me if I'm wrong but, the way you said that gives off the impression that only people that make savage prog can know if a job is interesting.

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I didn't say anything about job's being interesting or not - that depends on player's preferences. I too think smn's a little bit oversimplified (that's why I moved to another job), I just disagree with the statement that you can go full unga-bunga with your summons and that will have no consequences.

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Originally Posted by skooma_dealer

I didn't say anything about job's being interesting or not - that depends on player's preferences. I too think smn's a little bit oversimplified (that's why I moved to another job), I just disagree with the statement that you can go full unga-bunga with your summons and that will have no consequences.

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Got ya, ya I wasn't quite sure, thanks for taking the time to clear it up.

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Originally Posted by skooma_dealer

I did Extremes on my smn and since I already know mechanics in savage raids (in first two at least), I'm pretty sure what to expect there on smn. It maybe not that hard to play current summoner, but saying "use whatever is available without consequence" is just not true. Also did you check other players in this thread on savage progress?

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If someone is going to post comments about how Summoner plays in Savage, I'd expect them to actually, you know, play summoner in savage. Wild, I know.

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Originally Posted by Darthgummibear

Nope. The job is dead. I must have gone through the skill list at least a dozen times trying to figure out what I was missing because I actually had empty slots. I honestly don't know how it went live like this.

I know people complained about the original complexity, but damn talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater. They went to such an extreme in the opposite direction I could almost set a metronome to the button presses. Now easily the most mind-numbingly boring job in the game.

Also it feels like physik is bugged because it says 400 potency but heals seem to be a fraction of that value.

I actually regret having leveled the job now.

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Why do people make these posts acting like they speak for everyone? I'm sorry you don't like the change. I personally love new SMN, so no its not dead as far as I'm concerned.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

It still scales with MND instead of INT for whatever reason.

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Its a relic of ACN design. Honestly they should either give a talent to SMN changing it to scale with INT or a talent that changes the skill to something else entirely (like some kind of oGCD skill with a small potency or something) or just make it a SCH only skill if they don't want SMN having a strong off heal.

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Originally Posted by tearagion

there are 3 non-oGCD astral flow abilities a minute, 8.5s of things that don't just feel like ruin spam.

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Mountain buster is an oGCD ability, so not entirely true

Slightly off topic but can anyone tell me what the heck is on page 3? For some reason the page is super cursed and every time I click it on my phone the web page just freezes completely.

Only thing that stands out is that somebody used an ascii character for question marks in their post. Phone should be able to display that though

Maybe it's the mobile site acting up, I dunno.

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

Mountain buster is an oGCD ability, so not entirely true

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I was counting each part of Ifrit's Astral Flow as a separate GCD, because they add up to 2 GCDs and are different Spells.