Allowing Gear Change in Active Mode

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

So much potential on screwing rare/ex items lol.
I hope SE balance things right.

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Just made a post about that
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...579#post604579

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Originally Posted by Sagagemini

So much potential on screwing rare/ex items lol.
I hope SE balance things right.

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I think it's balanced as is. It's rare and difficult to get a gear melded with more than 2 materia, let alone 4. If someone accomplishes that on a piece of equipment they like, than yeah, I think it deserves to be a bit more powerful than the rare/ex items the game offers.

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Originally Posted by Denmo

I think it's balanced as is. It's rare and difficult to get a gear melded with more than 2 materia, let alone 4. If someone accomplishes that on a piece of equipment they like, than yeah, I think it deserves to be a bit more powerful than the rare/ex items the game offers.

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Problem is that most rare/ex are worse if compared to an item with only 2 materias attached to it.
Dungeon drops became obsolete after the release of the materia system.

I don't think it is balanced as it is, but i believe it can and will be better.


@Rydin
I like your ideas! That way materia system would improve so much.
That's what i'm hoping for.

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_2.gif

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

http://ui31.gamespot.com/1214/deadhorsebeat_2.gif

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oh the irony, I can taste it.

The topic was dead 6 months before this thread was made. Yep I added to it, but we should let it die.

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Originally Posted by Dragon

If it really was an abuse of game mechanics, then why did the dev team exacerbate the issue even more by releasing gear sets no one would ever wear otherwise due to their counterintuitive stats (Hecatomb being a prime example)?

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Because the dev team on XI sux. Ninja was never supposed to tank but they exacerbated that as well. Instead of fixing the Ninja to do what it was intended they just gave up and let the community become self destructive as they were afraid to lose us if they tampered with what we were doing to make things work at the time. Instead of making the content easier they kept it insanely hard to the point where we had to abuse game mechanics and borderline cheat just to complete it. It's called balancing and I would like for XIV to know the word well.

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Originally Posted by Sortis

Instead of making the content easier they kept it insanely hard to the point where we had to abuse game mechanics and borderline cheat just to complete it. It's called balancing and I would like for XIV to know the word well.

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Actually you have it the other way around, they had to make things stupidly difficult in a straightforward fashion because people abused broken game mechanics that they didn't bother to fix when they were repeatedly pointed out back in 04/05. Now they don't have the staff to do anything about it, shot themselves in the foot much? I do blame Tanaka for letting it get out of hand due to his teams lazyness, but I also blame players because lets face it were notorious for seeking out things that give us advantages even at the cost of challenge just for the sake of profit.

NIN was a prime example of this actually, because broken defensive mechanics worked against a PLD when it came to holding hate and taking damage. The fact NIN had the same hate grabbing abilities as PLD, didn't lose hate from losing shadows (although was fixed later on), and totally negate damage by Utsusemi / high evasion let things become easy-mode on alot of endgame activities because alot of players like profit with the least amount of effort. Although I couldn't blame them in some cases the drop rates were abysmal in XI and lots of players went to easy-mode to speed up kills just so they could move onto other things.

As for the gear-swapping, that's a big HELL NO for me. Min/Maxing one set of gear per job/situation is more than enough for me. I'd rather not have to spend endless hours toiling for one piece of gear, that minorly boosts some action with marginal results that only gets used once or twice every event.

FFXIV will be fine without it. Was only done so much in ffxi because it was necessary to perform at peek. Lets have that peek be without gear swapping this time. If anything ask for more elemental influenced gameplay like changing your attacks to fire or earth based etc. or skillchains. Fill up those thinking holes with less routine strategy that doesn't waste as many resources as gearswap. Also, blinking sucks.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Actually you have it the other way around, they had to make things stupidly difficult in a straightforward fashion because people abused broken game mechanics that they didn't bother to fix when they were repeatedly pointed out back in 04/05. Now they don't have the staff to do anything about it, shot themselves in the foot much? I do blame Tanaka for letting it get out of hand due to his teams lazyness, but I also blame players because lets face it were notorious for seeking out things that give us advantages even at the cost of challenge just for the sake of profit.

NIN was a prime example of this actually, because broken defensive mechanics worked against a PLD when it came to holding hate and taking damage. The fact NIN had the same hate grabbing abilities as PLD, didn't lose hate from losing shadows (although was fixed later on), and totally negate damage by Utsusemi / high evasion let things become easy-mode on alot of endgame activities because alot of players like profit with the least amount of effort. Although I couldn't blame them in some cases the drop rates were abysmal in XI and lots of players went to easy-mode to speed up kills just so they could move onto other things.

As for the gear-swapping, that's a big HELL NO for me. Min/Maxing one set of gear per job/situation is more than enough for me. I'd rather not have to spend endless hours toiling for one piece of gear, that minorly boosts some action with marginal results that only gets used once or twice every event.

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Agreed, although it matters not the reasons, one could argue both points very well. What matters is now that we have a good game here, we can't let them make the same mistakes, happy to have vocal players like yourself that "get it". /salute

I can not believe someone would say people not wanting gear swapping are lazy..... I posted my example of my Dragoon (and to hell if I post my Dancer because it was 5x worse.....) I used gear swap macros because I was pretty much forced to, but I hated it so much.

We should get rid of auto-attack and bring back manual attacks. Get that extra % damage, and give micro management to everyone who loves gear swapping.

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Originally Posted by Sortis

Because the dev team on XI sux. Ninja was never supposed to tank but they exacerbated that as well. Instead of fixing the Ninja to do what it was intended they just gave up and let the community become self destructive as they were afraid to lose us if they tampered with what we were doing to make things work at the time. Instead of making the content easier they kept it insanely hard to the point where we had to abuse game mechanics and borderline cheat just to complete it. It's called balancing and I would like for XIV to know the word well.

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Obviously you didn't play XI enough to know that they screwed with the enmity on those spells and red mage spells. Learn before you post.

Only read bout 5% of this thread... since this thread is huge and I have a life, I can't sit here forever reading everything, nor would I ever want to...

ANYWAYS, I just wanted to say... F**K NO!!! I would REALLY hate it if they made it so we can change gear in active mode... NO THANKS! God that would be the dumbest sh** ever...

This is tricky! I too have wanted to do this for a long time. It really brings out a new level in some players who really care about their jobs. However I just don't think my Inventory could take it ; ;

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

We should get rid of auto-attack and bring back manual attacks. Get that extra % damage, and give micro management to everyone who loves gear swapping.

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If you like manual attacking play archers. They may have auto attack, but your not gonna be using it.

For all the ppl that are against swapping because of the blinking... The dev's could implement a system that would allow you to choose pieces that you would be allowed to be seen in, as an overlay of sorts. This wouldn't be affected by changing gear. You would only blink if you changed your current apperance style.

With all the new AF, I would be for gear swapping. Example would be with Brd and only being able to use one song while enhancing more effects that can't be stacked. Sure you can take those pieces out or juggle it around. Just trying to point out that it would be better to use a different piece of gear entirely instead of wearing 1 piece that's only effective once maybe twice a fight, and the bonus for such isn't that great.

Ppl already complain if your don't wear AF when you have it and use another piece that's better for the current fight. Alot of ppl are also using mods to view over all effectiveness and complain that your not pulling your weight.

It all boils down to individual playstyles. If you enjoy doing it, then do it. If not, don't. We shouldn't be punished if there is a system that is effective and promotes the use of it.

If it's because there is no inv space if you do it... There is no xtra space now as it is. No matter how much space we get, we will fill it. With every patch we get more and more junk items. Alot of this could be solved with a dedicated NPC to store said items but normally they only store regular items and nothing modified or hq.

What makes a game great are having various choices to customize the tasks at hand. From character creation and general appearance to slaying that almighty dungeon boss or NM w/o a cookie cutter mold.

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Originally Posted by Malkasha

For all the ppl that are against swapping because of the blinking... The dev's could implement a system that would allow you to choose pieces that you would be allowed to be seen in, as an overlay of sorts. This wouldn't be affected by changing gear. You would only blink if you changed your current apperance style.

With all the new AF, I would be for gear swapping. Example would be with Brd and only being able to use one song while enhancing more effects that can't be stacked. Sure you can take those pieces out or juggle it around. Just trying to point out that it would be better to use a different piece of gear entirely instead of wearing 1 piece that's only effective once maybe twice a fight, and the bonus for such isn't that great.

Ppl already complain if your don't wear AF when you have it and use another piece that's better for the current fight. Alot of ppl are also using mods to view over all effectiveness and complain that your not pulling your weight.

It all boils down to individual playstyles. If you enjoy doing it, then do it. If not, don't. We shouldn't be punished if there is a system that is effective and promotes the use of it.

If it's because there is no inv space if you do it... There is no xtra space now as it is. No matter how much space we get, we will fill it. With every patch we get more and more junk items. Alot of this could be solved with a dedicated NPC to store said items but normally they only store regular items and nothing modified or hq.

What makes a game great are having various choices to customize the tasks at hand. From character creation and general appearance to slaying that almighty dungeon boss or NM w/o a cookie cutter mold.

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Gear swapping was a horrible idea, even in FFXI, it was to exploitable and visually annoying, I don't care if they fixed the blinking or not, or even fixed the inventory space issue it would cause, I don't want it in the game at all. All it did was lead to min-max elitism to the highest degree. I should not have to have 4 of each slot of armor to do my job right -.-

Doesn't matter if you want it in game or not. It is already in the game. It's just not 100% as effective as it could be. If ppl really wanted to be elite they would say they wanted each item to have maxed materia before you could join your pt.

Like ppl have already stated they swap gear mid boss fights. Some start a dungeon or instance (like AF fights) as one job and end it as another.

The current system is still broken and needs to be adjusted but they should either make it effective or limit it.

Everything in game is exploitable to some degree. Like power leveling, or swapping job after death on a boss or running out of an instance to reset mob hate while the rest focus on another mob, or crafting items and selling them to npc's for more then it costs to make, or getting drops from mobs that you don't claim. The list goes on.

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Originally Posted by Malkasha

Doesn't matter if you want it in game or not. It is already in the game. It's just not 100% as effective as it could be. If ppl really wanted to be elite they would say they wanted each item to have maxed materia before you could join your pt.

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It's weird when people say things like this, because "100% effective" and "get more out of your gear" are things that are completely arbitrary. You can already reach "100% effectiveness" now. What you're really asking for is to set the bar higher for what "100% effectiveness" is. I gotta ask, what is the point of that?

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Like ppl have already stated they swap gear mid boss fights. Some start a dungeon or instance (like AF fights) as one job and end it as another.

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And they were told a resounding no. The dev team does not want people to switch gear, classes or jobs in the middle of a fight. That is a game design choice that they took.

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The current system is still broken and needs to be adjusted but they should either make it effective or limit it.

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What's broken about it? People are doing the fights just fine now.

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Everything in game is exploitable to some degree. Like power leveling, or swapping job after death on a boss or running out of an instance to reset mob hate while the rest focus on another mob, or crafting items and selling them to npc's for more then it costs to make, or getting drops from mobs that you don't claim. The list goes on.

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Yes the list is huge. But that list needs to shrink, not grow.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

It's weird when people say things like this, because "100% effective" and "get more out of your gear" are things that are completely arbitrary. You can already reach "100% effectiveness" now. What you're really asking for is to set the bar higher for what "100% effectiveness" is. I gotta ask, what is the point of that?

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What I mean by 100% effective is that you can still do these things durring bosses and such but usually it takes a few seconds too long going from active to passive to active.

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And they were told a resounding no. The dev team does not want people to switch gear, classes or jobs in the middle of a fight. That is a game design choice that they took.

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What's broken about it? People are doing the fights just fine now.

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What's broken is the above. They don't want you to do it but you can.

It's not in a bad position where it is now. I mean you can't change jobs when Enmity is generated and you can't change gear in active mode and that nips most of the problems in the bud. I suppose they could make it where you can't change jobs/gear in instances or dungeons too, but that might open up another can of worms.

For example, your tanks been away from town all day, your in Cutters Cry and his armor breaks. He can't swap to another piece of armor and his pal who has 50 Armorer can't switch over to fix his stuff, so now the groups stuck with a tank wearing broken gear.

It might be a more extreme example, but truth is your not going create any kind of system that does not have it's own kinds of problems, nor a system that everyone is going to be pleased with. As it stands I think it's a good balance, and as slow as the UI is in this game I would think Active Gear Swapping would only compound the problem.

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

It's not in a bad position where it is now. I mean you can't change jobs when Enmity is generated and you can't change gear in active mode and that nips most of the problems in the bud. I suppose they could make it where you can't change jobs/gear in instances or dungeons too, but that might open up another can of worms.

For example, your tanks been away from town all day, your in Cutters Cry and his armor breaks. He can't swap to another piece of armor and his pal who has 50 Armorer can't switch over to fix his stuff, so now the groups stuck with a tank wearing broken gear.

It might be a more extreme example, but truth is your not going create any kind of system that does not have it's own kinds of problems, nor a system that everyone is going to be pleased with. As it stands I think it's a good balance, and as slow as the UI is in this game I would think Active Gear Swapping would only compound the problem.

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I guess one of the things I'm trying to get at, is that most mages are never in active mode. They have it the easiest to swap gear durring fights. Brd's can be the same way if they are more support than DD. I would like to see some kind of actual balance for all pt members.

Maybe they could have it where if one pt member was engaged, the entire group would be considered "Active". Also in an instanced fight where a person dies or leaves the area, the mob still has some hate towards the rest of the group and doesn't auto reset and leave everyone alone.

What we're trying to say is:

You shouldn't have to change your pants in the middle of a fight to be "100% effective", it is just a broken game mechanic left over from a game (that shall not be named) that some refuse to let go.

I am not trying to be insulting but it just elitist nonsense. "Omygawd you could be doing 10 more damage a cast if you swiched gear back and fourth every cast! Stop sucking" (this is the part where some pro-gearswapper tells me how it REALLY made a huge difference. )

Regardless, gear was never meant to work like that, it is meant to be about "trade offs".

I'd rather build my character to specialize how I want him to, not be force to be great at everything with 40 gear slots worth of equipment.

It worked in XI but just because it worked there doesn't mean it will work here. That's my opinion at least, aside from the constant blinking, gear swappers might want to take note that even if they could swap mid-fight they would have to add /wait 5 macros to everything to compensate for the server deciding if they were in their old set of gear or not.

There are far more important issues at hand right now, and the devs have allready said they are not going to add gear swapping.

Lets see in FFXI i had TP/haste gear, WS gear, EVA gear on melee. Each job with different items/macros. On mages I had torques, staves, MND gear(debuffs/cure), INT gear(nukes). Even more sets for BRD and BST.

If there was even any plan of this BS on FFXIV, they better give me 1000 inventory space first. I'm already carting around gear for every class. This patch added 7 more full sets of armor I now have to carry around. As it is, you can't even rely on gear swap macros out-of-combat because most of the time you end up with 1 or 2 pieces not being equipped. Let's not forgot how you lost target on that ninja tank everytime he changed a piece of gear.

FFXIV's combat is too fast, and servers too slow to handle it. Gear doesn't even mean much in FFXIV, not even close to the scale of XI.

I didn't bother to read all this but may answer is a big NO! That is just pure stupidity. Get geared with the best you have or the best balanced you can do, or with the player style you may prefer. END

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Originally Posted by Malkasha

What I mean by 100% effective is that you can still do these things durring bosses and such but usually it takes a few seconds too long going from active to passive to active.

What's broken is the above. They don't want you to do it but you can.

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Then it should be made so that you can't switch gear at all while you have enmity.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Then it should be made so that you can't switch gear at all while you have enmity.

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"you can not change gear at this time, you are being watched" ^.^

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Originally Posted by Nekirr

Obviously you didn't play XI enough to know that they screwed with the enmity on those spells and red mage spells. Learn before you post.

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A. I had well over 500 levels on my character Sortis in XI. B. I was there at launch. C. Ninja still tanked after they "fixed" the Utsu spells. D. If they really had any intention of stopping them as tanks they could have, but they didn't.

Red Mage doesn't even matter, my post had nothing to do with them. If you're opposing my argument, then the only argument you could make is the devs are retards and have no idea how to balance their game considering Ninja kept right on tanking. Which can't be the case considering they eventually gave up and took the easy road and made them an even better tank. Why don't you stop assuming things about people you have never met before you post and actually connect some dots, use some common sense and think before you call me out and attempt to sandbag me with a flimsy comment like that and a horrid attempt at degradation. Deadpool : "Common sense is so rare it must be a superpower!"

Not sure why people are still here arguing for gear swapping, Devs already told you hardheads they aren't doing it. Take a deep breath and let it go, or go back to XI.

This topic needs to die. We already have the answer from the devs. It aint gonna happen!