Adjust other jobs as in nerfing warrior? ;-;Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
The Problem with Paladin
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03-22-2012, 02:57 AMTreach
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03-22-2012, 03:12 AMReinheartOr means other way around so other jobs are as good as warriorQuote:
Originally Posted by Treach
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03-22-2012, 03:13 AMSwordCoheir
Well you didn't expect them to get everything precisely right on the first try did you? They'll prolly adjust the critical hit process on WAR, likely reduce the amount recovered by Rampage/Bloodbath, and greatly increase the recast or lower the crit. rate of Steel Cyclone. Tbh it would probably fit better combo'd off of Whirlwind in terms of balance, but that's just personal opinion.
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03-22-2012, 03:14 AMPeptaru
Am I the only one that wants to farm Camate for Camate Tufts? I wanna make com.rep gear +1!!!
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03-22-2012, 03:19 AMelreed
Please dont change the warrior, dont nerf jobs, make them better...you should already know that we dont like being nerf.
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03-22-2012, 03:43 AMMadruk
Besides the problem of paladin abilities being trash for the most part, there's the glaring issue of there actually having content needing one. None of these fights require any sort of heavy tanking, so regardless of paladins being buffed, people will still take warriors because of the way dungeons are designed. With a 1 hour time limit and the current belief that you can only acquire body pieces via a 5 chest speed run, people are still going to take the faster group setup.
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03-22-2012, 03:51 AMTreachI hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Camate didn't really say anything about defense or mitigation for PLD, is there anything on the JP forums about it? Maybe all ability changes are aimed at this? -
03-22-2012, 04:07 AMReinheartNope JP side is basically same thing as Camate said, nothing about HP increase or Def increase, only thing it says is adjustment to Paladin's actions, guessing 1.21a isn't too far out so we should see it soon I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treach
One thing I don't understand is the Q/A team used these new jobs for testing and went through new raid dungeons... so why couldn't they figure this out when they tried out PLD. Like JP side said and what I posted on my thread... it's fine the devs are making adjustments but what were their original plan behind how it was released? There must of been a reason why the jobs released this way after testing process Q/A team went through so instead of just listening to players feedbacks right away and saying we'll fix it! we kind of want to know, why it was released like this in the first place?? -
03-22-2012, 04:10 AMPhobos
Nice to see we're getting some adjustments.
Just to comment about the whole enhancing outmaneuver would help GLA as well - I see what you mean, but I guess the problem is that PLD would tend to rely on it more as we lose featherfoot and other abilities to both recover MP and mitigate damage. This loss of abilities just makes outmaneuver's uselessness even more apparent than it was on GLA.
While I'm sure ability changes will do a great deal to help, I can almost guarantee WAR will remain to be the best tank until we get some VIT, Defense, and Blocking changes. Even then, the first two would help WAR as well, so in reality the biggest change that needs to happen to make PLD even moderately useful, is a change in blocking calculations for higher level mobs (the only things where it actually matters). -
03-22-2012, 04:13 AMZangetsu
Be nice if they gave us guard back but slightly different.
Guard: hide behind your shield but lose the ability to attack or perform actions. % blocked varies with STR. Effect fades upon reuse. Recast :00.
This could be usefull for tanking multiple enemies or for enemies that hit extremely hard. You wouldn't use it in a general situation but it would make PLD feel more specialized in the art of the shield. Make us feel like we have more control over the damage we take. You can gain some emnity then hide behind your shield then when you feel emnity may shift you can drop shield and gain more emnity.
Better shield proc rate would be great as another option too. -
03-22-2012, 04:36 AMleomike35I love the guard idea we should be able to hide behind shield and cut dmg in half. Ifrit would be so mad at us. Also being able to do that alone would greatly buff outmanuever and aegis boon due to not needing shield to proc it would be guaranteed. Just wouldnt be able to use phalanx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangetsu
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03-22-2012, 05:16 AMCichy
WAR the way it is made the class fun again. If they nerf it that's weak
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03-22-2012, 05:34 AMSwordCoheir
Actually looking at WAR AF most of the pieces are on par defense wise with PLD's AF. I'm kinda shocked considering all the crit/enmity/damage bonuses that are attached to the gear as well. I was under the impression when they developed WAR it was supposed to be more of an HP/DPS tank not a job that could do that and compete somewhat defensibly with PLD, WAR should at least have to sacrifice DPS in some way to be on par defensively. Or maybe reverse roles and give PLD a way to sacrifice defense to up DPS significantly so they can at least be in a more flexible role when not tanking.
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03-22-2012, 05:41 AMFayettePerhaps they weren't testing them for the current battles but on the future ones like Garuda or other upcoming dungeons/primals/etc that they will be giving us and PLD will be the choice tank for it. I don't know just a guess ^^ They really need to make GLA/PLD something special over MRD/WAR, they should know by now that players will take the class/job that can tank/big damage over a class/job than tanks/teeny-tiny damage. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
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03-22-2012, 06:07 AMKiaraHi Camate,Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
Thanks for the update. This certainly sounds like a step in the right direction, but I wanted to also voice my concern (as others have after your announcement):
- You mention the adjustments to Paladin will be "mainly focusing on their actions", but what about the *core*, fundamental changes many have been bringing up on this thread and other threads? Will Yoshida-san & the Combat Team be adjusting any of these core problems with Paladin?
- Improving Block Rate
- Improving Inherent Defense (while in Paladin Job)
- Improving Inherent Enmity Gain (some global boost while on Paladin Job)
- Improving Other Damage Mitigation Options
These core problems lie outside of just adjusting Paladin Weaponskills & Actions. The core formula for calculating Block Rate (especially on Bosses) needs to be looked at.
As Kaeko has pointed out (and the Dev Team should know this), the value to get noticeable damage mitigation via Defense is so high (vs. Bosses) that it's better to just go with HP builds, so something should be done about either (A) adjusting formulas for Defense vs. High Level Enemies / Bosses; or (B) Paladin's core Defense when switching to the Job should be dramatically raised.
And to be a desirable choice over Warrior (or at least within the ballpark), since Warrior has Foresight (& Parrying), and gain Featherfoot (Evade), along with very good DPS / Damage (and AOE Damage to boot), there needs to be something on Paladin to help "balance" them in their own unique way.
Whether its an inherent Enmity Boost, or other Damage Mitigation Options, this should be looked at.
Madruk and Phobos have brought up some very key points: With the way Dungeons are designed, even if you "adjust Paladin actions" and, say, Spirits Within does more damage... that still won't incentivize people to pick Paladin over a Warrior in these raids: The Warrior can outdamage the Paladin, and mitigate damage pretty well, and hold hate very well...
So Paladin needs something significant to make them desirable in this content again. In other words, there needs to be some distinctive, noticeable change and some inherent advantage / characteristic that a Paladin has that no other Job has. Its own flavor / standout quality.
Otherwise, people will go with Warrior.
Please pass along our additional questions to Yoshida-san & the Team.
Thanks! _(._.)_ - You mention the adjustments to Paladin will be "mainly focusing on their actions", but what about the *core*, fundamental changes many have been bringing up on this thread and other threads? Will Yoshida-san & the Combat Team be adjusting any of these core problems with Paladin?
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03-22-2012, 06:26 AMTreach
whoa i found the colors
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03-22-2012, 07:07 AMzergasaur
Just my two cents, but the PLD is FAIL. Horrible compared to the GLA. Why? Let me explain.
1. PLD has Holy Succor but loses 2nd Wind - Yes it can heal other people but has casting time. Now if you know what a TANK does, TANKS gets hit....alot. Which means many, many interrupted heals. Not forgetting to mention you need stand still now too. >< This skill is practically useless in fights if you are tanking. If you were to use this skil las an off tank, sure cover and this will be awesome. But PLD dmg is not good and its much better to have a WHM in its place.
2. Loss of featherfoot which is a 2nd Aegis Boon in ways that regens a little MP. This skill is far better than Hollowed Ground.
3. Hollowed Ground is good but not very useful because it has a short duration, long Cooldown and only blocks physical. So using this is only useful on endgame content, but all endgame content do an array of physical and non-physical attacks. So many times the hollowed ground only block 1 to 2 attacks. Featherfoot accomplishes this very same thing but you can use it continally throughout the fight!
4. PLD only tank with AE taunts with no AE attacks or high dmg attacks to retain hate. Basically how its designed now, PLD need to continually AE taunt over and over to keep hate on group mobs. But at the same time WHM, BLM, WARRIOR are gaining more hate through, heals, AE spells, or attacks. Which almost always results in mobs jumping off of PLD.
5. Low HP: PLD have ~3000hp at r50. Warrior has ~3800 HP. Paladins dont really have more Def that Warrior. Whats the justification of 800 less HP?
Bottom line, I feel the PLD is a nerf and not an improvement over GLA. Only thing I see PLD has over GLA is the ability to wear that insane Heavy Darklight Armor and that little nifty aura that heals AE. But even that should be made a constant thing. To make PLD more playable, I think the following changes is necessary:
1) a low dmg enmity building ae attack/combo
2) Make Holy Succor a skill not spell or if you must keep the cast time, just make it non interuptable
3) 800 more life.
4) something to replace featherfoot .... for GLA, feather foot and Aegis Boon was my most valued skills as a tank. Hollowed Ground, does not compare to feather foot. Throughout a fight, I value featherfoot wayyyy more than hollowed ground. -
03-22-2012, 07:19 AMejiboothat's what i heard! and that makes me a sad panda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Treach
btw good points zergasaur. gonna add mine as well which are basically the same
1. low hp
2. lack of aoe enmity
3. blocking and shields
4. defense
5. defensive abilities
fixes
1. aoe enmity
2. total overhaul of blocking and shields
3. defense
4. defensive abilities -
03-22-2012, 10:11 AMBabydollNice..are they making the AF useful now too? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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03-22-2012, 10:46 AMYoungblood
Too keep it simple please by all means improve PLD however it needs to be done but DO NOT NERF WAR or any other classes for that matter. Improving classes is the better way to go. :)
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03-22-2012, 10:53 AMAndrienI agree they should bring Guard back. This time make it better by adding new actions that is available when guard is active? lower movement speed and attack power is a fair price for higher dmg mitigation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangetsu
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03-22-2012, 11:00 AMLlenCoram
I like the fact that jobs are getting looked at, but the gods help you if you touch Monk <.<
We are murdering machines and we are NOT to be trifled with. -
03-22-2012, 11:12 AMSkiesActually that is the ultimate fallacy of every game designer: Testing their own game. Of course they got a Q/A team, but the Q/A team is not the players, the Q/A team does not have the same expectations of the players, it doesn't have the same mentality of the players. Quite possibly the Q/A team sees the PLD as a better tank than the WAR, perhaps they can even see something in it that the community cannot, all in all they have an altered point of view because of their involvement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
I mean i'm not saying anything about the job itself, I don't play anything other than my Dragoon and the White Mage i'm levelling up, but it's very possible that the official testing teams simply have a strange point of view and for them, somehow, this works. -
03-22-2012, 12:18 PMzergasaur
I wouldn't worry too much about nerfing of certain classes. Most of these new jobs as is are only marginally better than the original classes. Nerfing them would render the jobs pointless. How it works is probably using the original class as a starting point, then taking away the flexibilty of having access to all other class skills. Then with the remaining skills altering them to support more unique and role oriented purposes. But as I see it now for Paladin, they are worse off a tank than the Gladiator. So I can pretty much do better tanking as Gladiator than the Paladin with non-darklight gear.
My suggestion to SE is to stop worrying about putting boundaries on jobs and classes that make them limited. Having the feeling of being important and overpowered is a good thing for player enjoyment. For example, BLM should be doing insane dmg which may seem OP. But when a mob comes a knockin, the blm should die easily. On the opposite spectrum, dmg should be sucky for Paladin, but ae enmity, Hp and def should be his forte. Warrior can be diversified by having him generate enmity through dmg and WS instead. Or perhaps having abilites to tear hate away and reassign hate or something like that. -
03-22-2012, 12:33 PMYukiKonekoHow long have we asked the devs what exactly they were thinking? We have tried to figure out what they Q/A'd PLD to be and no one knows. So, in the end, they messed up, and for the 2nd time now, nerf'd the GLA class tree viability. Fortunately, they do have a good record for "fixing" the GLA class tree the next patch... The rollarcoaster continuesQuote:
Originally Posted by Skies
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03-22-2012, 02:34 PMGildarts
Only actions?
I think PLD need a better hp n defense or physical dmg resistance not only actions lol...
Works on shield and block rates and ofcoure the enmity ...
i hope the job get fixed soon and be useful. -
03-22-2012, 02:42 PMSkiesWell- They might be moving PLD more towards Active Tanking rather than Passive Tanking, in that it has active abilities that mitigate damage and such, probably adding secondary effects to their existing abilities and tweaking them otherwise. Im curious!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gildarts
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03-22-2012, 03:12 PMSerenityDefinately glad to hear this. I hope Block rate is something that is getting looked at big time, and in my opinion is the largest component holding paladin back from being the big time tank in endgame content. .7% chance to block on Ifrit is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Camate
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03-22-2012, 03:25 PMPeptaru
People should stop asking for Pld HP boosts, their concept from the Q&A was reduced HP for better mitigation (paraphrased) people are disappointed because only the lack of HP was delivered without the supposed + we were expecting. I hope Pld HP stays right where it is.
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03-22-2012, 04:46 PMKraggyBecause the way to balance a game is never nerf, always buff, until you reach the point where all jobs/classes are gods and mobs have to be similarly buffed to compete?Quote:
Originally Posted by elreed
It's called 'stat inflation' and destroys a game's ability to challenge. Yes, being nerfed is annoying, but only those too blind to see the wider picture whine about it. -
03-22-2012, 06:41 PMPiedPiper
The problem with paladin, and gladiator to be honest, is that it artificially limits the entire party owing to its tiny threat generation capacity relative to warrior. Many times in this thread something like "its not hard to slow down on dd" or "well the dd/healer should just manage their threat" or "tanks job is to generate as much threat as possible, and it doesn't matter that the dds can generate more" has been said... and all of this betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the tanks job. This sort of thing has been said by people with the mentality of "we have 30 minutes to kill ifrit, any amount of enmity will allow the DDs to get him dead by then." There are several things wrong with this.
A) The longer the fight, the more likely something will go seriously wrong. End of the day, a longer fight means more cracks, more cracks means more people will eventually blow up (even if you are 99.9% consistent at dodging, if you have to dodge enough, you will blow). Too many people blow up and you fail. If the fight was say, 10 minutes shorter (very possible), its substantially less likely that things will go wrong. More emnity = shorter fight = smaller chance for mess up.
B) Drop rates aren't 100%. This may seem obvious and off topic, but think about it. We don't (usually) just fight ifrit once in a vacuum. We form groups expecting to kill him multiple times. Faster kills = more kills = more loot. If my group can kill him in 7 minutes and 30 seconds and yours is taking 20 minutes because the DDs in your group are fettered by lower tank threat, then my group is way better off. This is just as true for Cutter's Cry as it is ifrit. More tank hate = higher dps = more loot.
C) As it happens, there isn't plenty of time to get it done. Speed chest on CC requires high out put for the entire dungeon. This means that your DDs need to be able to go full throttle almost the entire time. So when we get to ChimChim and I'm on warrior and putting up way more threat than you on gld/pld, my group is better off. The same DDs in a group with war kill it faster than a group with gld/pld.
D) And, to me, this is most important. A tanks job is not to maximize group dps potential, its to get out of the way. Idealy, the tank should be putting up more threat than the DDs can match going full-boar. A great tank is a tank that places no limits on the group. In a sense, our job is much less "stay alive" and much more "hold threat." We have whm/cnj brd (support class!) to keep us alive. Yes, we ought to have tools to help out, and you ought to use them, but they are secondary to holding threat. By that, I mean, just as a dead DD can't DD, a dead tank can't hold hate.
With these things in mind, lets compare glad and plad. As has been discussed to death already, the two are next to equal in terms of keeping themselves up, perhaps (and I believe it to be so) with gld getting the edge owing to renewable mp and a faster cast time along with feather foot and second wind. As I have said, survivability, however, is somewhat subordinate to threat generation (again, just to be clear, survivability only matters inso far as it allows you to continue building threat.)
Threat generation, some people seem to think pld actually has an advantage over gld owing to spirits within, which i must say is totally lol. Think about the start of a fight, and lets stick with ChimChim. I'm a paladin, so I look at him real hard.... and flash /voke him. And then i position him. And then I stab him until I have tp and hope a dd hasn't pulled it off in those first 30ish seconds. Then I blow boon to drum phalanx spirits. Honestly, DDs pretty much have to just twiddle their thumbs this entire time. Holy succor is unlikely to be used here, I'm moving, I probably have stone skin and regen up, so I'm not even going to take much damage to try to heal, and oh, they took away our PRIMARY initial threat generation tool: over cureing for hate.
Now I'm a gladiator. I get my war face on, I stare at ChimChim.... and I pop invigorate and keen flurry. Why? Because by the time I have him positioned, I can IMMEDIATELY use wardrum, which will also be on a much shorter cool down, and will continue to be used nearly twice as often throughout the entire fight, which is WAY better than spirits within. Not to mention all the extra combos invig will give me across a fight, or shield bashes, or, well, anything I want to use that TP for.
Setting aside the MP issues, curing for threat simply isn't viable. People have said, "well, just cure the dd when it pulls." Yeah, that gets you all kinds of really really dead on ChimChim once he starts voice of the lion'ing the entire group. Not an option. No one but you, other than maybe on chorus and ants, is going to take damage. And you have two whm's with regen and fingers on the button staring at you with faster to cast cures. Good luck with getting a full effect holy succor off, unless your intentionally getting hit by his abilities, which is super scary since your hp is only marginally bigger than that of a wet noodle. The key to fixing gld/pld is actually rather simple: bring back over cure for threat. If we are willing to spend the mp on it, we should get the effect. As it is now, we frequently spend that precious pld mp only to cure for 0. And its just silly to tell the whm's not to cure, its kind of why they are there, and you really can't risk the tank going down.
Prior to this patch, gld and med were pretty close in single target threat. For speed kills, MRD's vastly superior dps probably still made it the better tank, but hate wise I was untouchable on Ifrit as gld. Double and triple melded BLMS couldn't pull him off me if they started casting the moment they were in position, a big part of that was the fact that at any time, if my abilities were on cool down, I could just cure someone/something and get a full 400+ points of healing threat. During jumps I could AOE cure the DDs and get a few k threat, right at the start I could do it on the full party to get essentially a second rampart. If paladin could, at will, drop a 1.1k holy succor on itself for threat, this entire thread would be "hey, pld needs mp" "yeah, i agree" "maybe a bard?" "idk i want to play solo right now" /thread. Paladin's biggest problem isn't that its mp is difficult to manage, but rather that its MP, in endgame, is useless. Paladin is supposed to be a better tank than GLD because its supposed to have all the tanking tools as GLD and then some, when in reality it has less tools + some largely useless ones. Divine Veil on ChimCHim? 100% Useless. Holy succor on ChimChim? 85% useless. Cover on ChimChim -1337% useless. Even hallowed ground is a good 70-90% useless because it fades on movement, and haha, the entire ChimChim fight is moving to avoid abilities. In a short fight, paladin has less threat. In a long fight, it has less threat and less survivability (my gld will almost never run out of mp with feather foot and well used SR).
Temporary solution? Go warrior. AOE Hate grab on the same 30 second cool down as flash, hits for more threat, and it is also a rather kick ass DD (recently came in first place on an 8 minute ifrit kill, as the tank.) Oh, and you never perma-run out of TP. Oh, and the bard is still useful, cus he can Paeon you. Paladin is supposed to be a tank and only a tank, its a job, it should do one thing and do it really really well. Its shiny new thing is MP, that MP should help it tank. It's not a "utility healer" or a "shinier white mage." It is a tank. Make its MP help it tank.
Please note, I love the idea and even feel of paladin's play style. But I can't justify using it when I'm having to say "guiz don't pew pew yet cus I can't build more threat" when I should just be on warrior. Also, Buff PLD don't nerf War, war does what its supposed too, pld is like cake, it is a lie. -
03-22-2012, 08:58 PMBrannigan
Well, Hallowed Ground doesn't fade on moving (that was in the old preview I think) but Chimera's breaths aren't physical so it ends up being not that amazing there anyway. I haven't really had threat problems that I know of as paladin (I think the new flat blade combo bonus contributes a lot) but warrior dishes out equal enmity while doing quadruple gla's damage and having more HP.
Succor is a good spell on paper but while actually tanking you're likely to be topped up by white mages and waste your time/mp casting it. Veil/Cover are similar in that if your party members are doing well they lose a lot of their power. I think Cover's best use is on a Flare-casting black mage in a big AOE pack or something but Collusion does that better. Spirits Within is a really weak weapon skill considering the power of the other job WSes. Disembowel is just alright but adds Paralysis and Dragon Kick, Ring of Talons, Rain of Death, and Steel Cyclone are all awesome... and they're all on shorter recasts than Spirits. -
03-22-2012, 10:49 PMPhobosQuote:
Originally Posted by Kraggy
While you're right here, and I don't think everyone has my exact point of view on this - I feel as we shouldn't be asking "never nerf anything" and just, "don't get rid of the 1 working tank just because you think you fixed pld." I'm of the opinion that they should buff before thinking about nerfing. After balancing jobs for the most part, simply then make other changes to finish perfecting the balance.
Nerfing has it's place - I just don't feel it's place is here quite yet. I don't want to have PLD half working, and WAR nerfed to the point where it is half working as well. I don't think anyone wants that right now. -
03-22-2012, 11:16 PMTessaJallohPretty much the entirity of this explains every issue there is with PLD right now, and why WAR is simply better than us. It aint cause WAR is overpowered at what it does, it's because we poor Paladins are kinda... well... shit at what WE do. We need a heavy boost to our enmity generation, a HUGE boost to it, enough to make it so we can secure it, keep it, and only need to maintain it rather and cry and need to steal it back.Quote:
Originally Posted by PiedPiper
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03-22-2012, 11:30 PMTirionCrey
Hate generation is one thing and it's important, I agree on that, but this whole thing wouldn't be much of a problem, if we actually "block" shit, which is the ONLY thing that makes us unique compared to WAR(not counting MP heal crap)
All SE really needs to do is alter formulas of the game, most of all the "enemy lvl compared to your lvl" formulas, which pretty much make defense and block a useless thing. We don't block, unless with Boon, we might as well tank w/o a shield...
Second to that we got WAY less HP then WAR, which is just not justified, since we were supposed to "mitigate" dmg in return for lower HP...well I don't see anything of that due to the stupid formulas in place for fighting high lvl mobs. I basically get the same dmg as WAR, as I get on PLD when fighting high lvl mobs...stupid, just stupid.
PLD is the inferior WAR right now...
Give us regular blocks back, Enmity on Phalanx and problem solved. -
03-23-2012, 12:04 AMNoata
I hate sages. I only have a preblem when you just spit out opinions. your posting a giant post and its mostly opinionated. its okay to have some, but for a majority to be nothing but baseless self drawn conclusion serves only to create a giant false idea of how everything works. this has been going on since day 1 of the forums when people just post nothing but self decided fact.
I have no personal hatred toward the posters but here is a fact i think you should consider before posting a page and a half about tanking
Emnity is the focus of the mob. by holding focus your team can attack. having a larger amount of emnity then other group members in no way increases damage. the early formula More tank hate = higher dps = more loot. is completely false and has nothing to support it. having a high DPS does make the DPS have a higher hate. but emnity is generated many different ways one of which is damage. more emnity does not mean more dps. a tank can maintain hate doing little damage. your DPS can only chain skills based off of cooldowns and TP/MP usage. meaning they have a limit due to cost. your damage level is not formulated by hate. a mage stealing aggro is more a sign of poor spell sequence then anything else. -
03-23-2012, 01:42 AMKiaraQuote:
Originally Posted by PiedPiper
Well said, Pied & Brannigan!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
I really hope Yoshdia-san and Team take a really good look at Paladin in light of all our feedback here (and on the JP side). Paladin is so lacking right now, I really hope we get some fundamental changes besides "[Dev0000] Increased damage to Spirits Within." or something minimal like that.
The Paladin's Job *is* the Tank. And it should be desirable, useful, *enticing* and have its own standout advantages of being chosen when going through our Max Level Content (and in any situation). -
03-23-2012, 01:57 AMNightmare8675
short post time! make the skill come from con/pug and give them a provoke instead of divine (useless) veil!
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03-23-2012, 02:37 AMelreed
They need to check enmity skills for paladin mostly, right now warrior is better tank than pld, for example the antagonize and vengeance actions are very helpful for hate build, AS I SAID BEFORE DONT NERF OTHER JOB/CLASSES TO MAKE OTHERS SHINE, well right now i dont see any skill for pld that builds enmity easier or AoE enmity as warrior have, maybe if they gave paladin an AoE DoT that has a lot of enmity, (i dont like bringing other games for this, but i have to this time) like in WoW paladin had a ground DoT with a good AoE and lot of enmity damage dealers could have more freedom, right now i feel like berserk and rampage are like stances, like berserk for damage dealing and rampage for tank, well in WoW you had something like that a tank bonus status, healer bonus status or damage dealer bonus status, much like having antagonize ON all the time if you turned on the tank bonus.
It would help a lot having War Drum usable all the time without the block requirement, it should be able to block more or give back the guard stance, it was annoying back then when you had to click on every action in order to do damage (you had to do a lot of stuff back then, not anymore).
For me a job must have a marked difference from a class, everyone already knows that a class is easier to solo stuff and job must help more in party fights, but right now as someone hast stated in other thread about black mage you cant see a big difference between them excepts for a few jobs, maybe if they add those stances add other skills as i mentiones and tweak the skills more we could have the marked difference of jobs and classes and a balanced system. -
03-23-2012, 04:25 AMPhobosThis is definitively the problem. Paladin has no enmity advantages over GLA or WAR, yet also no defensive/stalling advantages. Plus with GLA and WAR having more hp, it's really quite useless right now. Even at that, WAR is just so much better (and easier). GLA even has to constantly spam abilities to get close the tankability WAR has (enmity and survivability), where WAR mostly just needs to do its primary combo. PLD doesn't even get the survivability GLA does.Quote:
Originally Posted by elreed
All-in-all though, I don't really have my hopes up for this update, as the PLD abilities are quite underwhelming.
Also, if PLD is supposed to tank (which should mean it takes the least damage of all the jobs) - why does WAR AF only have 6 less defense than PLD AF? I know defense is relatively garbage, but you would think that PLD would have some inherent advantage in it's gear in terms of defense, considering that was a key component to what they were promising.
Edit: Actually, I think I just came up with a possible solution.
Change Mind from adding to PLD's attacks to adding to it's defense. Keep GLA the same, but use this as way GLA => PLD is "sacrificing attack for defense"
so, GLA would be
+STR = +damage
+MND = +damage
+VIT = +defense
PLD would be
+STR = +damage
+MND = +defense
+VIT = +defense