Going on 2 hours of radio silence after logging in to find my character in GM jail

SE pays streamers to play the game while they use ACT on stream so it is a bit sad. I wish GM cared more than closing ticket but they probably are minimum wage jobs with some absurd number of tickets closed requirement. SE should just get with the program already and stop being disingenuous over parsing and a bit more caring with their mod team.

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Originally Posted by enthauptet

SE pays streamers to play the game while they use ACT on stream so it is a bit sad. I wish GM cared more than closing ticket but they probably are minimum wage jobs with some absurd number of tickets closed requirement. SE should just get with the program already and stop being disingenuous over parsing and a bit more caring with their mod team.

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Wait SqaureEnix pays players to stream this game?

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Wait SqaureEnix pays players to stream this game?

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I doubt they actively partner with streamers but YoshiP has been known to watch the world first races on Twitch which include a visible parser.

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Originally Posted by SerLuke

Wait SqaureEnix pays players to stream this game?

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Yes it is part of their marketing, a lot of game companies do it.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/422130430 - each of these guys was getting paid to play for advertising.

Game has lots of random paid marketing, here is mizzteq free game promotion https://twitter.com/MTQcapture/statu...42917619220480

Anyway I feel this is getting away from the original point lol. Getting paid to stream, etc. is cool but regarding ACT and such not so much as it applies to regular players.

Huh, glad to see they're up to date in marketing tactics at the very least. Now if only they could get up to date on parsers and metrics...

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Originally Posted by kidalutz

But that just the thing. Life isnt fair look while I feel for the player getting a ban the fact of the matter is THEY CHOSE to use third party software in direct violation of the Terms of Service was the punishment harsh absolutely. However what you as people are saying is that if someone breaks rules knowingly they shouldnt be punished by that logic string nobody should be punished for anything they ever did knowingly.

Can you see the problem with that line of thinking? That said Maybe I'd have gone with time served since they could do nothing anyways for four hours.

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So, you are making the argument that since life already sucks.... we shouldn't try to make it better? Because this rule is made by people... and can also be changed by people.

Do you believe in absolute authority? I do not. If the rule / law is stupid... then change it.

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Originally Posted by enthauptet

Yes it is part of their marketing, a lot of game companies do it.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/422130430 - each of these guys was getting paid to play for advertising.

Game has lots of random paid marketing, here is mizzteq free game promotion https://twitter.com/MTQcapture/statu...42917619220480

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The ToS does not extend too twitch as twitch is not SE's platform so showing Act on stream as far as SE is concerned is not a violation of their Tos. SE does not want you posting parser numbers with in the game itself showing act on twitch is not the same as posting in the games chat.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

The ToS does not extend too twitch as twitch is not SE's platform so showing Act on stream as far as SE is concerned is not a violation of their Tos. SE does not want you posting parser numbers with in the game itself showing act on twitch is not the same as posting in the games chat.

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Ergo, using 3rd party programs is not against the rules. Talking about them in the game is against the rules and will net you a 10 day ban.

Kinda weird how parsers are not allowed yet that huge jp blacklist hosted on a 3rd party site is a-ok. I know they can't do anything about it but does show the stark difference in mentality between the west and east communities.

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Kinda weird how parsers are not allowed yet that huge jp blacklist hosted on a 3rd party site is a-ok. I know they can't do anything about it but does show the stark difference in mentality between the west and east communities.

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I mean, the website doesn't interact with the game memory or its network traffic, a parser does

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Kinda weird how parsers are not allowed yet that huge jp blacklist hosted on a 3rd party site is a-ok. I know they can't do anything about it but does show the stark difference in mentality between the west and east communities.

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It has more to do with the difference between a website and something that intercepts game packets most likely. The latter could be engineered for “extra” purposes. My guess is Yoshida isn’t thrilled about the blacklist website either, but he can’t do anything to them. Parser users are capturing game data streams and if found out then SE can be actionable.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

The ToS does not extend too twitch as twitch is not SE's platform so showing Act on stream as far as SE is concerned is not a violation of their Tos. SE does not want you posting parser numbers with in the game itself showing act on twitch is not the same as posting in the games chat.

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Actually they could use a twitch stream as proof of “cheating” or breaking the TOS. More likely they choose not to in this case. Much like their current don’t talk about it policy. If the streamers use their channel to attack other players SE would probably act.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Actually they could use a twitch stream as proof of “cheating” or breaking the TOS. More likely they choose not to in this case. Much like their current don’t talk about it policy. If the streamers use their channel to attack other players SE would probably act.

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Everything I've heard points to the GMs and the STF adamantly not accepting any evidence outside of the game to convict a player, due to the ease of image and video editing.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I mean, the website doesn't interact with the game memory or its network traffic, a parser does

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Meanwhile the stated reason they don't want people to talk about parsing... its that it will hurt peoples feelings and lead to people being excluded from groups. By my measure, that jp blacklist is actually aimed to do exactly what they are trying to prevent, by punishing people for parsers.

But that site is ok. (◔_◔)

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

Meanwhile the stated reason they don't want people to talk about parsing... its that it will hurt peoples feelings and lead to people being excluded from groups. By my measure, that jp blacklist is actually aimed to do exactly what they are trying to prevent, by punishing people for parsers.

But that site is ok. (◔_◔)

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And yet, SE can't take down the site, or interact with it in any way, because it's not infringing on their IP, and I would guess people don't talk about it in game.

They have no control over the website. None.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

And yet, SE can't take down the site, or interact with it in any way, because it's not infringing on their IP, and I would guess people don't talk about it in game.

They have no control over the website. None.

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They could... I dunno... slap them with a lawsuit? They are hosting character names that belong to Square Enix after all.

Alternatively NA could move to using one too.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Everything I've heard points to the GMs and the STF adamantly not accepting any evidence outside of the game to convict a player, due to the ease of image and video editing.

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I don’t think they take outside items hands down, but it’s also not hard to prove authenticity when someone streams live. So I wouldn’t stream and think I’m 100% safe.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

They could... I dunno... slap them with a lawsuit? They are hosting character names that belong to Square Enix after all.

Alternatively NA could move to using one too.

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In that case, they'd have to take down garlond tools, the glamour websites, fflogs. Every fan site out there. Also, the site would have to be in a country that obeyed copyright laws.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

In that case, they'd have to take down garlond tools, the glamour websites, fflogs. Every fan site out there. Also, the site would have to be in a country that obeyed copyright laws.

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They wouldn't "have" to do anything. They choose, they aren't obligated to take down every fan site.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

They wouldn't "have" to do anything. They choose, they aren't obligated to take down every fan site.

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That's not how copyright law works lol. You can't pick and choose.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

That's not how copyright law works lol. You can't pick and choose.

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So the government sends out cease and desist letters without the company's request?

Edit: I don't understand how the owner of the IP cannot give their blessing to one fan site, but shut down another. Can you please explain further as to why that might be?

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

So the government sends out cease and desist letters without the company's request?

Edit: I don't understand how the owner of the IP cannot give their blessing to one fan site, but shut down another. Can you please explain further as to why that might be?

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It depends on the laws of the country where the sites are located. Some require items to be treated consistently, some have almost no rules. It’s just not a simple process for them to navigate. So it really depends on where they draw the line. And in this case it is items that intercept the data stream or alter the game. The folks using the glamour mods could easily get snagged if SE found out.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

So the government sends out cease and desist letters without the company's request?

Edit: I don't understand how the owner of the IP cannot give their blessing to one fan site, but shut down another. Can you please explain further as to why that might be?

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Because the defense is based around defending the up. If you say "we don't like this site, and it infringes on our up, but that site is good, even though it infringes on our ip, the judge would throw it out.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

It depends on the laws of the country where the sites are located. Some require items to be treated consistently, some have almost no rules. It’s just not a simple process.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because the defense is based around defending the up. If you say "we don't like this site, and it infringes on our up, but that site is good, even though it infringes on our ip, the judge would throw it out.

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That's problematic then. One would assume that as the owners of the IP they would be able to strike down offending sites using their IP at their leisure. Provided they have a consistent reason as to why they are being struck down. For instance "excluding players or inflicting emotional harm"

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because the defense is based around defending the up. If you say "we don't like this site, and it infringes on our up, but that site is good, even though it infringes on our ip, the judge would throw it out.

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A judge would not make a decision based on how good the site is. The decision is made based on whether it does infringe copyright or damages the IP.

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Originally Posted by WaterShield

That's problematic then. One would assume that as the owners of the IP they would be able to strike down offending sites using their IP at their leisure. Provided they have a consistent reason as to why they are being struck down.

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Well there are some international laws, but it can be problematic. Each country is entitled to their own take on things. However, most countries do try to protect IP’s and copyrights. However the parameters of how strict they are still varies greatly.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Everything I've heard points to the GMs and the STF adamantly not accepting any evidence outside of the game to convict a player, due to the ease of image and video editing.

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Indeed we never know, when very well known Twitch streamers are regularly using parsers it might be that they dont even know they are being streamed live (otherwise by checking what they are streaming they would know there is some kind of problem where hundred of viewers see them breaking the Tos). Surely their webcam has been hacked by someone who add a fake parser overlay XD

Meh...reading all the outrage and hair pulling, and we really don't know the entire story. I do know this, GM's were much worse when FFXI was in it's heyday.

Personally I'm not going to get triggered by a one sided claim.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

A judge would not make a decision based on how good the site is. The decision is made based on whether it does infringe copyright or damages the IP.

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That's what I mean, SE can't say we like this site so it's OK, but this site we don't like, even though both infringe.

Remember when SE said they wouldn't abuse the new ToS change and everyone believed them.

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Originally Posted by rattles

Remember when SE said they wouldn't abuse the new ToS change and everyone believed them.

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So now getting reported for using a third party tool, which has always been explicitly against ToS, is abusing the new rules?

well putting someone into gm jail leaving them there for 4 hours with no response, then basically refusing to listen to their side of the argument then waiting another long period of time send them a copy and paste answer that doesn't even answer their question and then issue them a 10 day ban for a first time offense on someone who has never even received as much as a warning would be abusing the new ToS in my book.

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Originally Posted by rattles

well putting someone into gm jail leaving them there for 4 hours with no response, then basically refusing to listen to their side of the argument then waiting another long period of time send them a copy and paste answer that doesn't even answer their question and then issue them a 10 day ban for a first time offense on someone who has never even received as much as a warning would be abusing the new ToS in my book.

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None of that speaks to "abusing the new rules". Third-party program use has always been against ToS, and they received a temp ban for it. I received a 10-day forum ban on account of my first infraction here - and trust me, it was incredibly mundane as far as comments go. 10-days may just be their standard length, but we don't really know.

Copy and pasted GM replies have been a source of contention since MMO GMs were a thing. Nothing new here.

Leaving them sitting for 4 hours - I highly doubt that was intentional and done with the intent to "abuse the new rules" as you claim. That just sounds like a shoddy notification system.

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Originally Posted by rattles

well putting someone into gm jail leaving them there for 4 hours with no response, then basically refusing to listen to their side of the argument then waiting another long period of time send them a copy and paste answer that doesn't even answer their question and then issue them a 10 day ban for a first time offense on someone who has never even received as much as a warning would be abusing the new ToS in my book.

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10 days is actually their warning, and you are getting off easy with just that. Trust me. :rolleyes:

I'm also in this predicament right now. Logged in and the GM isn't here, hasn't been here for a good long time. Not sure what's happening.

EDIT: after a whopping 40 minutes a GM finally showed up to ban me for a month for saying a bad word.


Here we go again.

This is just another reminder that of all the positive things Square-Enix is known for as a gaming company, customer service has sadly never been one of them. It's not the worst I've dealt with (EA still wins that award), but this story just tells me that it's starting to get to that point.

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Originally Posted by Valic

I'm also in this predicament right now. Logged in and the GM isn't here, hasn't been here for a good long time. Not sure what's happening.

EDIT: after a whopping 40 minutes a GM finally showed up to ban me for a month for saying a bad word.


Here we go again.

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Your statement makes it sound like it has happened before. If you didn't learn the first time, that's on you.

Isn't the max temporary suspension 20 days? After that, they do permanent bans. It takes a LOT more than swearing a couple of times to get that big of a suspension. I'm pretty sure there's more to the story than a few swear words.

And yes. It is on you, filter or not. You agreed to the TOS. You violated it before. You were punished before for it. You did it again. That is all you.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

Isn't the max temporary suspension 20 days? After that, they do permanent bans. It takes a LOT more than swearing a couple of times to get that big of a suspension. I'm pretty sure there's more to the story than a few swear words.

And yes. It is on you, filter or not. You agreed to the TOS. You violated it before. You were punished before for it. You did it again. That is all you.

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Well I'm afraid to break it to you but my only offenses are from

A. Using the pvp chat to communicate int he feast too much (because when you're trying to focus and communicate to attack the healer, you end up spamming it since the chat is locked to literally buttons). That's bannable.

B. Cursing in public.

Which, so far 2 of my suspensions have been the latter now, and it's never "at" someone, it's always a sentence just said overall. People love to abuse a flawed system if they know they can. So if you say "shit, sorry I died"... don't be saying it near someone who may hate you or have a power complex because bam, banned.

And yes.... I did in fact say it was on me... that I cursed in a game where preventatives are in place to not have these situations be an issue. You sound like one of these snowflakes that reports someone for cursing so far. It's a bit silly imo because if you don't want to see cursing, there's a system made for that, but despite this it's still advised not to and punishable from the end of people who have it disabled. To that end, there shouldn't be an option to toggle it off and just have the enforced one like most f2p mmo's do. This deters cursing and prevents tickets about cursing to begin with. Do you fail to see the logic in that system?

And again... Point here was they take their time before actually seeing you lol.

Wow, OP's been waiting 10 months in gaol?