Built-in Parsers

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Originally Posted by Oscura

Who cares?
People complain about literally anything. We've had people complain about Ultimate's entire existence, all the way up to garbage like complaining about not being able to play as children. This isn't even an argument.

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It is, because that would be the continuation of the argument for why official parsing tools are "necessary". Why we cant have them outside of Extremes/Savages/Ultimate. And from what I can gather, there's quite a few people who honestly seem like they wont be pleased untill we do have something like official parsers implemented as wide as possible (for reasons I best keep to myself as I wont waste my breath on people that are just gonna read what they want anyway outof my post)

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Originally Posted by Oscura

Edit: Also, you mention disrespect, but the person you replied to showed no disrespect at all to you. You act as if anti-parsers stand against toxicity but your posts seem hostile regardless of whoever you reply to, and it's usually based on the fact they disagree with you. It's hard to empathize with "anti-parsing" when people like you get hostile.

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And it's hard to empathize with people who time and time again fail to adress the concerns you have for a thing like parsers getting implemented officially, and instead treat you like you're making things up or just wants them to be "forced to carry trash players".

Also, if you're gonna ad hominem, atleast try to do it in regards to something I didnt already adress.
Or did you assume I only talked about the person I quoted?

But for the record, I treat people with respect, when I feel like they deserve it.
And a fast way for me to think you dont, is to insist in bringing up a topic that has been discussed to death and beyond, completely fail in adressing the counter arguments being made, or even entertaining that they could be true in the first place.

As for my attitude, I litterally couldnt care less about what people think of me. Because if all it takes for you to "pick a side" is that one "seemed a little hostile", you already made up your mind before even comming in. You were just looking for a excuse to hide behind instead of listening to what's actually being said.

With that said. I'll be taking my leave of this thread, as my words are most deffinetely falling on deaf ears that wont be pleased untill they have their way, regardless of whatever negative effects it could have on the playerbase. But if SE ever does cave to the complaints of people who as far as I'm concerned should consider themselves lucky even ACT was granted a grey area when it comes to being within or against ToS, expect me to be there and say I told you so when the community takes a turn for the worst.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

It is, because that would be the continuation of the argument for why official parsing tools are "necessary". Why we cant have them outside of Extremes/Savages/Ultimate. And from what I can gather, there's quite a few people who honestly seem like they wont be pleased untill we do have something like official parsers implemented as wide as possible (for reasons I best keep to myself as I wont waste my breath on people that are just gonna read what they want anyway outof my post)

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Not everyone will be pleased. Some people won't be pleased without official parsing support, some people won't be pleased if there is. There will always be bickering about something. My point was that you can't simply just not do something because people will complain. Should Ultimate not have been made because then casual or midcore players would complain? Should story mode have been made the only content available for raiding so that casual players didn't feel excluded from savage? Should there be no story mode accessible content for raids because raiders might complain they don't feel special? Should 24-man raids not have upgrade items to exchange for that only are obtainable for savage otherwise, because raiders will feel slighted by that too? The list goes on.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

And it's hard to empathize with people who time and time again fail to adress the concerns you have for a thing like parsers getting implemented officially, and instead treat you like you're making things up or just wants them to be "forced to carry trash players".

Also, if you're gonna ad hominem, atleast try to do it in regards to something I didnt already adress.
Or did you assume I only talked about the person I quoted?

But for the record, I treat people with respect, when I feel like they deserve it.
And a fast way for me to think you dont, is to insist in bringing up a topic that has been discussed to death and beyond, completely fail in adressing the counter arguments being made, or even entertaining that they could be true in the first place.

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I didn't "assume" you were talking about the person you quoted. You explained why you were being aggressive after being aggressive to them, and your reasoning was because of disrespect and the topic constantly being brought up. You correlated the two with your actions, not me. Also, people have addressed the concerns of anti-parsers in this thread without hostility or spite, maybe not in ways you liked, but they have. Just because it doesn't satisfy you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

People have also constantly addressed and "entertained," the counter-arguments, but yet again it's less that it isn't happening and more just not happening to your standards. You don't even have to read very far back into this post to find someone who is pro-parse advocating the use of parsers only within static/ex etc, only for someone who is anti-parse agreeing that if it was moderated and only available for such content and not in dungeons, that they would be fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

As for my attitude, I litterally couldnt care less about what people think of me. Because if all it takes for you to "pick a side" is that one "seemed a little hostile", you already made up your mind before even comming in. You were just looking for a excuse to hide behind instead of listening to what's actually being said.

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I haven't picked a side. As I've said time and time again, I don't care whether or not parsers are officially supported. I have never changed my stance on this. I never made up my mind on anything. This is the second time you've tried to call me biased just because I didn't blindly agree with your posts. I don't need an excuse to hide behind anything. I can tell you to your face, right now, that I can't stand you. You are incredibly hostile, incredibly condescending, and you hurt the anti-parsing crowd for their viewpoint more than you help them. I was simply offering you the advice that should chill out. Simultaneously, just because I don't like you, doesn't mean that I suddenly dislike all anti-parsers. Please do not be so self-centered.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

And you really dont think that the moment it's included, even as a optional tool where it, in your opinion, is "needed" we're gonna start seeing threads wishing it's implemented on a wider scale because someone who, just as a example, wants to improve so they can do Extremes, Savage or Ultimate?



Congrats. PF just beame unuseable for anyone not comfortable with a parser, if we follow that line of thinking

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Then it's OK for a scrub to sneak in to a PF and no one can call them out on bad DPS because no parser?

The argument goes both ways lmao.

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

And I respect your opinion too! /big lalafell hug :D

Now, I've been thinking... I know, I know. That's dangerous. :p

But I wonder if Square Enix would be willing to introduce an in game parser, similar in design to what the OP suggested, for a three month trial period?

That way the devs can discern its impact on the game, both positively and negatively.
Afterwards, SE can either implement the parser permanently or disable it depending on what they discover.

Such a move on the part of Square Enix would certainly lay this frequent argument to rest. :cool:

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I think that would be a great idea as well. :)

Will be honest did not bother to read the whole thread, but I highly doubt SE will ever add an ingame parser, now if you toss it up on the mogstation and charge for it you might catch their eye. All jokes aside why does SE even need to add one? Just use ACT, and if you are on console while it sucks ask a friend or raid mate to track your numbers. Since we all know SE is stubborn and once they formulated a reason not to do something they rarely ever change their mind, especially when it comes to the so called integrity of the game.

I do not think an ingame parser would effect anything, but hell what do I know I still ask for them to bring pvp chat back, but clearly SE knows best.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

No offense, but you COMPLETELY missed my entire point.

Unless you explicitly lock it to Extremes/Savage/Ultimate there's nothing stopping people from turning on parsers for anything else (and history will show that yes, they will. WoW has people parsing in leveling dungeons after all)

And if you limit it to just Extremes/Savage/Ultimate you open up for people to complain about not getting parser acess so they can train and become good enough for Extremes/Savage/Ultimate.

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Actually, you just went on a tangent. Not so much as a page back did the discussion deviate towards restricting a supported parse feature to harder content. If people insist it needs to be implemented universally. So what? You aren't training in a dungeon where you'll spam nothing but AoEs the vast majority of any pull. I wager plenty of pro-parse players will accept that compromise.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

But why am I even bothering. This is has been discussed time and time and time again, but those in favour of having parser software implemented officially both cannot catch the hint that SE has said no, and it's a no they've shown no sign of revoking since unlike those begging for official parsing tools, SE realises the negative effect it's given to have on the community.

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You know what else the developers have said no to? Improving the housing system, adding a glamour log, removing Grand Company restrictions from PvP and allowing Paladin to block magic. All four topics were continuously mentioned because people are passionate-- with the latter two eventually being changed. The devs aren't infallible. Another reason parses are brought up is due to the constant disingenuous assertions about them. Even the devs are guilty of assuming the absolute worst when most people want parses to hold players accountable and to self-improve. Harassment will always be harassment. Those who abuse parses should be punished. I find it ridiculous you can have a GM pay you a visit for saying "fuck" in say chat but they, somehow, couldn't handle abuse of a supported parse system.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

Honestly, if you're so desperate to minmax your gameplay, I question why you're even sticking with a game that clearly wasnt designed around it being a necessity (not counting content like Ultimate)

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Because I like this game? Parses aren't inherently necessary in any MMO. They are simply a useful tool that help people improve when used correctly. Funny enough, I see far more examples of "casual" players shifting the blame around yet you look at ACT and guess who's underperforming by a wide margin. Now before you go assuming I mean to encourage parsing across all content, I use that example to dismiss the false belief only raiders or "elitists" harass players about numbers. In this case, said people aren't even using a parse to harass, otherwise they wouldn't speak up.

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Originally Posted by Lazaruz

(And yes, if I'm coming across as agressive, I'm sorry, but I'm sick and tired of seeing this topic come up, and it's increasingly annoying the sheer ammount of disrespect is being shown towards the people who dont immediately agree about the need for official parsing tools)

PS. please do explain to me why I should have to be comfortable with something that doesnt have official company support, but was forced on FF14 by a tiny and INCREDIBLY vocal minority of players. Or did you forget that ACT wasnt developed by SE?

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Then stop patronizing me on how parses can't be implemented without destroying the community. If you "literally couldn't care less about what people think," why are you getting hostile and citing respect towards an entirely pragmatic response? Numerous people have entertained the opposing side, myself included. We simply disagree, especially when you bring in arguments like "comfort." Bluntly stated, no one cares unless you're raiding with friends. That doesn't mean the group can't be jovial and friendly, but at the end of the day, people want to clear content. I have nothing to really base a retort around that response because not only is it subjective, it's emotional. Generally speaking, people who dislike their numbers visualized are underperforming otherwise why would they care?

I am also sick of seeing players who underperform than proceed to blame the healer, tank or the party disbands after two pulls because no one can risk saying anything regarding ACT without potentially facing a temp ban. So this topic will never die, just like the listed ones above haven't. You don't have to like it, but it isn't "disrespectful" anymore than incessantly bringing up glamour logs or housing. Neither are necessary features but players believe they'll improve the game. Yes, more people want those than parses, but you can't definitely claim an "INCREDIBLY vocal minority" when not even raiders mention they could be helpful. Regardless, if they were only supported in harder content, then opinions on the subject should only be taken from players who actively partake in said content.

Once again, you don't have to like parses, however they aren't going away. Like I said before, instead of having accountability, we have passive aggressiveness where people just silently kick, disband and re-invite who they like or call you out on Discord where XIV's ToS doesn't apply.

Speaking in terms of other MMO's there's not many; if any, that actually have a built in parser, not even WoW. You can argue till you're blue in the face that it's unfair to console players, but consoles have never been known to have mods for m/any game. An in-game parser; in my honest opinion, is not needed. Plenty of people; day in and day out, clear content without needing a built-in in-game parser.

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

Then it's OK for a scrub to sneak in to a PF and no one can call them out on bad DPS because no parser?

The argument goes both ways lmao.

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I don't think SE wants people calling people out for bad DPS, as it's likely to not be done in a polite way and just become abusive which they'd have to do something about. This seems to be one of there main reasons for not wanting to trust the community with this tool.

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Originally Posted by jameseoakes

I don't think SE wants people calling people out for bad DPS, as it's likely to not be done in a polite way and just become abusive which they'd have to do something about. This seems to be one of there main reasons for not wanting to trust the community with this tool.

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SE should then take out HP bars so nobody can yell at healers. Then auto-magnetize everything to the tank so they can't possibly lose aggro. If we aren't allowed to judge one role's performance, why should we be allowed to judge any role's performance?

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

SE should then take out HP bars so nobody can yell at healers. Then auto-magnetize everything to the tank so they can't possibly lose aggro. If we aren't allowed to judge one role's performance, why should we be allowed to judge any role's performance?

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This is a false equivalence. Mobs and bosses have HP bars and even percentages, you can observe how DPS are fulfilling their roles. What you can't observe is how each individual is fulfilling their respective role/s.

i just want a parser for myself. a way to see how my dps is in any given fight (not the bs thing we have now )

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Originally Posted by heynowjose

i just want a parser for myself. a way to see how my dps is in any given fight (not the bs thing we have now )

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Had the same thought for 3 Years and finally saved up enough to get my hubby and myself a budget gaming computer each. ~$900. ;-; Best decision ever.

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

An in-game parser; in my honest opinion, is not needed. Plenty of people; day in and day out, clear content without needing a built-in in-game parser.

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So many people in this thread explaining how you don't need a parser to clear content without having cleared any of it themselves to people who actually have. :D

(Of course I might be wrong and these people would just happen to all have none of their Savage / extreme kills logged, feel free to correct me if that's the case!)

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Originally Posted by Kyuuen

This is a false equivalence. Mobs and bosses have HP bars and even percentages, you can observe how DPS are fulfilling their roles. What you can't observe is how each individual is fulfilling their respective role/s.

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Therefore it's not a false equivalence, as you can directly observe how each individual is fulfilling their respective roles for healing and tanking.

EDIT: Especially when you consider the tanks and healers that do dps as well.

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Originally Posted by Miste

This is a very good idea and I've also mentioned it before in past threads like this.

Simple fact is none of us knows if an official parser would make the game's community better, worse, or simply the exact same as it is now. The only way to see what will happen is for SE to try it and analyze the difference.

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*nods*

It's apparent both sides hold their beliefs strongly and even polite discussions regarding parsers degenerate into heated arguments along with some trolling. So, that's why a 90 day trial period would be a good thing.

Personally, I would love to see this whole topic laid to rest, once and for all. What say you, S.E.?

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Originally Posted by Kacho_Nacho

*nods*

It's apparent both sides hold their beliefs strongly and even polite discussions regarding parsers degenerate into heated arguments along with some trolling. So, that's why a 90 day trial period would be a good thing.

Personally, I would love to see this whole topic laid to rest, once and for all. What say you, S.E.?

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Not sure a 90-day trial would lay the topic to rest. Even if SE were to change their stance on the issue after 90 days, people have formed their opinion of parsers based on their prior experiences with them, that isn't something easily changed.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Not sure a 90-day trial would lay the topic to rest. Even if SE were to change their stance on the issue after 90 days, people have formed their opinion of parsers based on their prior experiences with them, that isn't something easily changed.

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So let them? Nobody is forced to like them, like good/great players shouldn't be forced to carry people.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Not sure a 90-day trial would lay the topic to rest. Even if SE were to change their stance on the issue after 90 days, people have formed their opinion of parsers based on their prior experiences with them, that isn't something easily changed.

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I know; but, at least we would all some common ground to base our opinions on. The thing is, my opinion is based on what I observed in WoW, not totally based on that game because I've observed bad behavior here too. It's entirely possible parsers will not poison nor divide the community of FFXIV as it did WoW. It's just unlikely since people are people no matter where you go.

And... Oh, Akaneakki. Your signature gif beautifully encapsulates the conflicting views of a hardcore gamer and a casual gamer.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

So let them? Nobody is forced to like them like good/great players shouldn't be forced to carry people.

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Not the point of my comment. I've always been a supporter of personal parsers so I can improve my gameplay. Again, however, not the point of my comment. Having a trial run on parsers isn't going to change people's opinions on them. If anything it is just going to inflame the issue as if it doesn't stay, supporters will be upset and if it does then objectors will be upset.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Not the point of my comment. I've always been a supporter of personal parsers so I can improve my gameplay. Again, however, not the point of my comment. Having a trial run on parsers isn't going to change people's opinions on them. If anything it is just going to inflame the issue as if it doesn't stay, supporters will be upset and if it does then objectors will be upset.

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How much that is true, we also seen that many people want this and that. An MMO can never satisfy too many people sadly.

At it's core this argument is over two separate questions.


First, are parsers necessary? For this you don't have to look much further than any given world progression group, of course they are if you want to play the very best you can. No, we all are not going to be those best of the best players but not having the option to analyze your own data is like pulling the rug out from under you before you start. As many of the opponents to parsing are so fond of saying 'you don't pay my sub' so it is certainly not your decision to tell me whether or not I can parse/be parsed.

Right now that's what's happening though - all the whining and crying about this imagined outbreak of toxicity is at best a large hurdle in the way of the push for some kind of in game damag meter. Without something built into the game as a console player I can't see any of this info that is accessible to my PC friends and competition.

The second side of the argument is 'oh the toxicity' and to that I say prove it. You have no way of knowing how parsers could impact the game's community just like there is no way to know how any major change may work out. The only way to find out is to impliment some kind of parser and then see what happens. If the game turns into a toxic waste dump then pull it by all means but I can't imagine it going that way. People are not the awful monsters that some of the posters in this thread make them out to be.

If anything parsers save you from toxicity. Is someone not pulling their weight? You know who it is now rather than wiping to enrage 10 times because you can see that SAM never put up Higanbana or whatever. Rather than being angry and burntout and yelling at each other a group can see who needs to step up and let them know. If they don't? Yeah, sure, they may get kicked. That isn't the end of the world. That one player's time is not more valuable than the time of the 7 others who might have cleared by then without them.

I just don't see the logic in arguing against something that only helps people. If someone uses it to be an ass then blacklist them and move on.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

How much that is true, we also seen that many people want this and that. An MMO can never satisfy too many people sadly.

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True, there will always be some group of players who are dissatisfied with a choice made by the Devs. If SE implements a parser though they should just do so permanently, and work on satisfying both sides of this argument by implementing/adjusting it in a way that both can come to terms with. A temporary one is just going to add fuel to the fire, not change minds.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

True, there will always be some group of players who are dissatisfied with a choice made by the Devs. If SE implements a parser though they should just do so permanently, and work on satisfying both sides of this argument by implementing/adjusting it in a way that both can come to terms with. A temporary one is just going to add fuel to the fire, not change minds.

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That I agree with, it can fuel up the fire more. I just hope they can at least add dummies with mechanics and it's something people need to do before doing fights. There are far too many people who gets carried by other peoples damage. Imagine if tanks, healers and the 3 other dps never pushed themselves? The last guy would mostlikely never seen his/her kill. Then you have the worse scenario where 4-5 people who been carried end up in the same group.

No thank you.

Some anti-parser people seem to keep forgetting that anyone on the PC who wants to parse is already parsing. I seriously doubt that making this official would dramatically increase the number of people who behave poorly about combat statistics. I still hold to my opinion that building an in-game parser would be a good opportunity for SE to disable sending combat stats to other people's clients. Players could use the parser to optimize their gear and rotations if they so wished and no one would have any grounds to chastise anyone else based on numbers.

Personally, I could care less if anyone parses my numbers. I know some people do and I have yet to hear anything abrasive from anyone I have partied with. Before I do a new instance, I make sure my gear is upgraded appropriately and I listen to any advice. I look at the web for any helpful class tips also. So go ahead and parse. You'll find I am doing fine by most people's standards.

That said, I have met people who play very well and they don't care for parsers. They don't mind if other people parse themselves but they would rather not have their characters 'graded' by others. I suspect that the majority of people who wouldn't use a parser either don't care about it at all or don't want to be ranked. Remember that not everyone who is against programs like ACT are against people parsing their own stats.

What if ACT suddenly stopped working for other party members? No one could upload your parse to fflogs. If someone tried to make anyone a scapegoat, vague comments about anyone's DPS wouldn't hold any water. As it is now, people assume that the accusers are running ACT and can see other people's stats. How much better would it be if people were forced to identify actual player errors like poor gear or poor use of skills rather than make comments about DPS and just kick? Then the player who is holding the group up would at least know what they need to fix. Maybe they'd start using a built in parser to learn their class better if it was convenient to enable.

Again, ACT is already in widespread use and it is annoying enough people to be a divisive issue for the FFXIV community. Adding a party parser to the game won't resolve the argument. Could crippling ACT through restricting what the client can see about other player's numbers and adding a personal parser to the UI be the compromise that most people could live with? Anti-parser people could have their privacy, pro-parser people could still optimize their toons and PS4 people could finally play too.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Anti-parser people could have their privacy, pro-parser people could still optimize their toons and PS4 people could finally play too.

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While I am still firmly in the camp of what would essentially be an in-game version of ACT, rankings and all, I think this would be a fair compromise that I could certainly live with.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Again, ACT is already in widespread use and it is annoying enough people to be a divisive issue for the FFXIV community. Adding a party parser to the game won't resolve the argument. Could crippling ACT through restricting what the client can see about other player's numbers and adding a personal parser to the UI be the compromise that most people could live with? Anti-parser people could have their privacy, pro-parser people could still optimize their toons and PS4 people could finally play too.

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Nope.

A personal parser is fine for perfecting your own personal rotation and experimenting with gear builds and such sure.

A group parser is needed to show you who you should be considering giving the boot. A personal parser can't serve this purpose.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Nope.

A personal parser is fine for perfecting your own personal rotation and experimenting with gear builds and such sure.

A group parser is needed to show you who you should be considering giving the boot. A personal parser can't serve this purpose.

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Granted I am only level 50 and haven't spent a bunch of time in FFXIV yet but in the MMO I am coming from, we couldn't parse other people. We'd kick from PUGs regularly. Some player runs in like Leeroy Jenkins consistently? Kick. Some player has gear that can't even stand up to bosses a tier lower? Kick. Some player keeps ignoring the raid leader? Kick.

It was very rare that someone was holding the group back who didn't make it obvious somehow. We never needed to parse them. If people knew the mechanics, listened to the raid leader and had appropriate gear there was almost never an issue.

Does FFXIV have an issue where people look on the outside like they can do an instance fine but in reality are just able to hide their ineptitude? I am asking seriously and I am asking as someone who personally doesn't care if everyone gets parsed. I just see this argument coming up over and over with some really upset people and fail to see how poor players can't be weeded out without these metrics.

ACT is starting to become the standard 3rd party app it feels like, the devs are going with turning a blind eye on it.
Idk what the number of users but in XI we had Windower and nobody ever got banned to my knowledge from using it and it was probably used by large marjority of its PC playerbase in its glorydays.

Now the small dev team that maintains XI has implemented the core features (that most people wanted) into the XI client so of course they could add a in-game parser if they chose too, difference is they are "too scared" people being picked on which is a lame excuse imho.

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Originally Posted by Rinuko

ACT is starting to become the standard 3rd party app it feels like, the devs are going with turning a blind eye on it.
Idk what the number of users but in XI we had Windower and nobody ever got banned to my knowledge from using it and it was probably used by large marjority of its PC playerbase in its glorydays.

Now the small dev team that maintains XI has implemented the core features (that most people wanted) into the XI client so of course they could add a in-game parser if they chose too, difference is they are "too scared" people being picked on which is a lame excuse imho.

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I played Neverwinter Nights before getting into modern MMORPGs and that game exposed all of the dice rolls to the player. When I encounter people who react like, "YOU PARSE!!! I'M TELLING ON YOU TO A GM!!! *foaming at mouth and vibrating uncontrollably*" I am kind of stunned. My first reaction is to think, "Um, you are playing a game that revolves around numbers and has roots way back in dice rolling RPGs. You can't be serious." But they are serious and some people are really offended by the idea that their toon's abilities can be measured with numbers. My second reaction is to think of some way to find a compromise where SE might give a little and maybe we can calm these paranoid people down a bit because I do think that they are making a mountain out a mole hill.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Does FFXIV have an issue where people look on the outside like they can do an instance fine but in reality are just able to hide their ineptitude?

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Yes. Of course the obvious cases are easy to notice (certain buffs / debuffs / DoTs never being up etc.), but if a person is geared alright and knows the basics of their rotation (can beat the SSS dummy for the fight, for example), they can still fail at maintaining decent DPS in a fight while doing mechanics correctly and not dying. The issues may come from example them failing to keep DPSing while handling mechanics (only for small moments at a time but they add up), failing to adjust one's rotation to a specific fight, failing to take advantage from other players' buffs, even things like failing to queue your abilities (I've had one of these in my raid group once: on the outside everything was right but their parses sucked)... These are the type of people who often don't even know they're doing really badly (because they are after all well geared and know what they're doing, at least in theory).

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

Does FFXIV have an issue where people look on the outside like they can do an instance fine but in reality are just able to hide their ineptitude?

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Absolutely. Chief among them were DPS unable or unwilling to perform a proper rotation, which is the bulk of their damage. For instance, I had a Monk in V2S do nothing except Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes and Rockbreaker. Not only does Monk have two combos it needs to cycle, but Rockbreaker is an AoE and V2S has no additional targets except the boss. His numbers were nearly 50% less than a comparably geared Monk. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to notice these things since most players typically aren't pay attention to the rotations and skill usage of others unless it directly relates to their damage.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Absolutely. Chief among them were DPS unable or unwilling to perform a proper rotation, which is the bulk of their damage. For instance, I had a Monk in V2S do nothing except Dragon Kick, Twin Snakes and Rockbreaker. Not only does Monk have two combos it needs to cycle, but Rockbreaker is an AoE and V2S has no additional targets except the boss. His numbers were nearly 50% less than a comparably geared Monk. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to notice these things since most players typically aren't pay attention to the rotations and skill usage of others unless it directly relates to their damage.

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So, it's not so much that a player's ridiculous rotation can't be watched during the fight as much as ACT just makes it more obvious. Fair enough. People who are unable to play their class with excellence shouldn't be joining instances that require excellence and should be kicked. As I said before, I like parsers and personally have no issue with the whole party's stats being revealed to the people in the group. I just wish there was a way to simply weed out the players who don't understand their class without having anti-parser people losing their minds. I've grown quite used to parsing without anyone making threats since well before FFXIV and I find all this talk of reporting to GMs unsettling.

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Originally Posted by Baingoleth

...People who are unable to play their class with excellence shouldn't be joining instances party finder groups that require asks for excellence and should be kicked....

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Fixed for you.

Parsing helped me realize I wasn't performing to the best of my potential. I realized this after someone told me I could easily be doing a lot better in that A10S fight we just did, and sent me the screenshot of their parsers. They then told me to stay in Deliverance the whole time, and were happy to inform me afterwards that I went up by quite a lot.

I had never really thought about the damage I did as a Warrior. I'd stay in Deliverance for as long as I could, sure. But I didn't realize that I could push myself even further by taking risks, and that those risks would eventually add up and be translated into a lot more damage.

This is especially true now with the new Warrior changes, seeing as how important Inner Release and Berserk windows are. Finding out the best times to use them and seeing which ones end up giving you the biggest damage boost is the key to doing the best damage you can. How are you supposed to figure this out without parsing?

If anything, the game should at least show you YOUR individual DPS during fights, and then give you the option to see how much better or worse you did compared to other players of your job who completed that fight. That's the beauty of FFlogs - it tells you by just how much you can improve, and it even let's you see HOW you can improve!

And yet it seems some people are satisfied going through all the effort of maxing their class, getting the best gear possible, and then proceeding to doing the BARE MINIMUM their job can do in order to clear the fight. Makes me wonder why they even bother playing the game...

Anyways, since I'm writing this post, it just made me realize - if they can't even get rid of the STUPID character limit in the forums, I doubt they'll ever bother worrying about built-in parsers.

Buddy we've had this topic come up for about 3 to 4 years now. You can mask it any way you want or ask it any way you want and the answer is still the same as if Yoshida had said it the first time in 10 different languages.

No.

Accept it.

The sight of people treating other people like a number isn't going to go over well.

Heard several incidents in FFXIV where it got bad in Japan too.

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The sight of people treating other people like a number isn't going to go over well.

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This is what began to sour me on the raid scene, honestly.

Not parsing per se, that's no big deal. It's treating people so expendably, as if all they're good for is those numbers. Or the midcore groups that were suddenly all about trying to be world-prog level/speedrun-or-bust. There's nothing wrong with trying to push for improvement, but I don't raid for the glory, I do it cause I enjoy taking on a challenge with a team. Once that sense of team solidarity started to be overshadowed by parse-chasing, that's when I was happy to step back a bit. Hell, I find more camaraderie in PvP these days than raiding, and while I won't blame that on parsing, it hasn't done much to help that.

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Originally Posted by Enla

snip <3

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After the Shirogane patch first came out I was a few days late to doing one of the new dungeons. Ended up in there with a healer that hadn't done the dungeon either. Was trying to adjust to SMN changes on top of trying to REMEMBER dungeon mechanics from the video I watched prior to entering. I ended up raising the healer on several occasions along with other party members. The tank got really nasty with me and asked me why I wasn't doing enough DPS cause they were parsing. I legit haven't been in a dungeon since. Very demotivating.