As a new player, running through the Praetorium dungeon was the worst

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

...
"do not do anything, not even heal till the flash"
...

---

Well...

A monk could work through their rotation to build up greased lightning until the point where the bosses resistances are stripped, then go full throttle with their cooldowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by execool

and I don't want to participate in that blood bath. I also dont want to help cruel players get tomes.

---

It's not about players being cruel. The roulette was designed to get new players through incredibly outdated content, that no one would run otherwise. It's a compromise that SE designed to counter a bad implementation of those two dungeons. Is it ideal? No. Does it work? Yes. New players get fast queues to complete their MSQ, the helpers get exp or tomes.

People need to stop trying to vilify players who actually queue up for this roulette, as without them, you would be far worse off than you are now.

In one light, yeah it sucks that you dont get teh opportunity to view the cutscenes in Praetorium.

Pragmatically, that design of cutscenes mid dungeon was a bad one, and as others have pointed out, you dont see that in HW or SB.

All that being said, people shouldnt be huge dicks and spoil things. It's one thing to say "Hey, can you watch cutscenes later?" and its another to write a whole long paragraph outlining things. Part of the fun of stories is to discover the plot yourself. People need to not be jerks and spoil it for others. Even if you think youre being nice, dont SPOIL THINGS unless someone asks you specifically to do so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by execool

I am just really looking forward to whatever changes they make to fix it. I would have happily queued 30+ min for a patient run the first time, personally

---

The promised changed heavily sound like unskippable cutscenes, which isn't a good thing. As was pointed out, the roulette was designed so new players could even finish their story. If they do what I fear, those dungeons will be dead. No amount of tomestones will make people watch almost 30 minutes of cutscenes in one dungeon.

Rival wings queue is good and bad, heavily depending on time of day. MSW roulette is dead all times of day unless you're tank and will be megadead if they make cutscenes unskippable. Nobody will queue for it, no amount of incentive will make people queue for that.

If you want to watch cutscenes ask LS, FC or put a PF up and I am sure you can find 1 person bored enough to run you through it. Killing the MSQ roulette is not going to help anyone in the long run...

Running the two final ARR dungeons is painful for the first timer - especially Praetorium where you can very quickly just get left behind with all those cut-scenes.

However, I'm pretty sure that a decent FC would gladly spend the time with a character taking them through to watch all the cut-scenes. If not that then try setting up a party finder for that very purpose.

The dungeons, whilst well designed are badly implemented with the cut-scenes which really just get in the way. Glad to see they never did any other dungeons like those two again.

Probably been mentioned already in the thread, but I’d rather see the MS Roulette dungeons become solo instances (with npcs helping, ie a mock squadron) before having them “force” everyone to watch the cutscenes. That will only lead to people not running it at all.

I am still hoping they eventually just make it a solo mission.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

I am still hoping they eventually just make it a solo mission.

---

They might. Nothing us certain at this point. It's just my interpretation of the interview, which also was just a translation so no telling how accurate it even was.
Making it solo would definitely be the better solution, imo.

I was in this dungeon last night as a Tank and someone was always lagging behind watching cutscenes and they were actually vote kicked out of the group because of it. There was no verbal exchange or anything just suddenly a vote kick option appeared (I chose no because that's messed up to do) but apparently over half the party wanted them gone because they were booted almost instantly.

I'm one of the fortunate players from the start of 2.0 who got to experience the dungeon properly. I remember people waiting at each boss room for everyone's cutscene's to end before pulling. It was really awesome.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Violyre

You're right to be angry. This has been a long going problem, which is the reason why they changed how the final dungeons happen in Heavensward and Stormblood. Unfortunately, this is the norm for people now. People will actually kick others if they want to watch the CS. It's disgusting, and I really wish they'd do something like split the dungeon into a bunch of trials or something.

---

The dungeons are very easy, so I dont see a problem with the devs implementing a solo version where they give you some units to go with (like adventurer squadron)

So far, I have not been in a situation where I have been kicked for watching CS. However, I do reserve the right to report those in the party for doing so and taking names, especially if I am streaming it on my Twitch channel. Especially since I advance past MSQ as a Healer.

I love the lore, every other MSQ duty I need to clear I may be first-time on. I am a tourist. I paid for my ticket. #Respect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seraf

I'm one of the fortunate players from the start of 2.0 who got to experience the dungeon properly. I remember people waiting at each boss room for everyone's cutscene's to end before pulling. It was really awesome.

---

its sad, because it is actually really interesting compared to almost all of the rest of 2.0 MSQ. I ALWAYS tank the MSQ roulette, and will at the very least, stay behind with the player or argue for why we should wait. This also opens up an entirely new can of worms, but i think overall something that allows you to do it solo (at this point) would be a welcome change for those hoping to experience the whole epic confrontation

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Braneric

Unfortunately, as much as I would like for them to go back and redo these two dungeons doing so would divert resources away from making new content and it doesn't take an MBA to figure out that's not a sound business decision.

---

I have an MBA. It's just that it's not in demand where I am.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FateAudax

FFXIV players are generally an elitist toxic bunch, nuff said. Don't like what I'm saying? Probably because it hit right on your mark.
I was insulted on an extremely personal level by my previous raid group.
So, I couldn't care less on who I'm offending anymore because most players don't deserve you being nice to them. It's a vicious cycle.
Just df and be contented that you are able to clear the dungeon, and watch the cutscene in the Inn. That's the reality of the game now.

---

That's why I support the work of the red knights sticking it to toxicity in my city.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Areic

...While I'd never ever kick someone for watching the cutscenes, I'm not going to wait either....

---

That makes me raise the question, why some people is there? The reward is clearly not that useful, I run with poetics capped 9 days out of ten and will sure will not go there for them. If it is for exp, we know gazillions of better and more rewarding ways to get it without that roulette. I sometime wonder who needs queue it, unless it is their first time there...

I maybe go extreme, but SE can make all the cutscenes mandatory there. If that happens, these two duties will be filled by just sprouts and mentors. Unless rewards are made worth the time to use there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

That makes me raise the question, why some people is there? The reward is clearly not that useful, I run with poetics capped 9 days out of ten and will sure will not go there for them. If it is for exp, we know gazillions of better and more rewarding ways to get it without that roulette. I sometime wonder who needs queue it, unless it is their first time there...

---

I find it to be an extremely easy(read: brain dead) way of getting 1.2m EXP on a level 63-64.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

That makes me raise the question, why some people is there? The reward is clearly not that useful, I run with poetics capped 9 days out of ten and will sure will not go there for them. If it is for exp, we know gazillions of better and more rewarding ways to get it without that roulette. I sometime wonder who needs queue it, unless it is their first time there...

I maybe go extreme, but SE can make all the cutscenes mandatory there. If that happens, these two duties will be filled by just sprouts and mentors. Unless rewards are made worth the time to use there.

---

As Avatre mentioned, it provides decent enough EXP and poetics should you have jobs just reaching 60 or are going old content. I've occasionally began running it again since I started more relics.

Speculation says they will be doing just that in 4.2. Unfortunately, there likely won't be enough sprouts or mentors to maintain a fast queue, especially since they also mentioned buffing the EXP rewards. I expect PF will be littered with "MSQ Roulette. MUST SKIP CUTSCENE" parties. Furthermore, if cut scenes do become mandatory. How likely do you think people are to patiently wait versus simply kicking the person slowing them down? It already happens. Just imagine what it'll be like if the roulette offered 4-5 million EXP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

...How likely do you think people are to patiently wait versus simply kicking the person slowing them down? It already happens. Just imagine what it'll be like if the roulette offered 4-5 million EXP.

---

If cs are mandatory, kicking a member I guess does not speedup anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

If cs are mandatory, kicking a member I guess does not speedup anything.

---

Oh, I misinterpreted that to mean everyone has to simply be out of a cut scene before you can progress. If they make cut scenes mandatory regardless of player preference, Castrum and Praetorium die. No one will run them. If you got it in a mentor roulette, it would actually be faster to leave, eat your thirty penalty and try again. They can't force cut scenes onto people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lelila38

No amount of tomestones will make people watch almost 30 minutes of cutscenes in one dungeon.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Venoshock

Nobody will queue for it, no amount of incentive will make people queue for that.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If they make cut scenes mandatory regardless of player preference, Castrum and Praetorium die. No one will run them. If you got it in a mentor roulette, it would actually be faster to leave, eat your thirty penalty and try again. They can't force cut scenes onto people.

---

Two things here. Firstly it's not true that "nobody" will run them - drastically less, perhaps, but not nobody, and it will be the people who are willing to wait for newcomers now. (Which may also have the side effect of multiple newcomers in the party, making it more of a challenge and less "epic boss killed in twenty seconds".)

The other option is to make the EXP/rewards equivalent to what you could earn in that time elsewhere, for less work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Furthermore, if cut scenes do become mandatory. How likely do you think people are to patiently wait versus simply kicking the person slowing them down? It already happens. Just imagine what it'll be like if the roulette offered 4-5 million EXP.

---

If it's possible within the game infrastructure, I would hope they create a "first-time player cannot be kicked" rule if they're implementing mandatory cutscenes in an 'only until all players opt to skip cutscene' way.

---

Ultimately a "solo mission" mode would be the best solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Two things here. Firstly it's not true that "nobody" will run them - drastically less, perhaps, but not nobody, and it will be the people who are willing to wait for newcomers now. (Which may also have the side effect of multiple newcomers in the party, making it more of a challenge and less "epic boss killed in twenty seconds".

---

yeah as in hardly anybody. Queues are already horrid for MSQ roulette and that's WITH tomestones. the queues will be shot dead the moment you force cutscenes onto people. That's a problem. We aren't talking about non mandatory content like old pvp map, binding coils, old extremes. We're talking about content you have to do to get to the endbloodygame. Not that many new players even know about pf, so even though that's an option, its an option many newbies are unaware of.

Also, you're forcing cutscenes onto everyone....you forget that not every newbies cares about cutscenes and story, they just wanna get to the endgame asap without buying the damn potion and msq skip book thing. I was one of them, i didn't care about story, i don't even know what XIV is about, i bought the game because i liked the steampunk design of alexander and wanted to do that back in 2015 so i skipped everything until got to alexander. If i was forced to watch 30 minute cutscenes idgaf about, I'd be pissed off. I just want my fast queue, get in, complete duty and gfto.

There is a reason SE has not done a CS heavy multiplayer duty since these 2 from ARR. At this point I do not expect them to make any adjustments to it. The roulette was made an option just so players could queue it outside of pre-making a party in PF for it though at the time PF wasn't across data center so you had to find 7 people on your world that wanted to do it because almost no one would queue them as a single duty.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

There is a reason SE has not done a CS heavy multiplayer duty since these 2 from ARR. At this point I do not expect them to make any adjustments to it. The roulette was made an option just so players could queue it outside of pre-making a party in PF for it though at the time PF wasn't across data center so you had to find 7 people on your world that wanted to do it because almost no one would queue them as a single duty.

---

They will be making adjustments to Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium in 4.2 but we don't have any idea as to what they mean by that so far. The next Letter from the Producer might give us some insight.

It really should be a solo duty- it was designed like a single-player JRPG dungeon. I hope that's what they're going to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Two things here. Firstly it's not true that "nobody" will run them - drastically less, perhaps, but not nobody, and it will be the people who are willing to wait for newcomers now. (Which may also have the side effect of multiple newcomers in the party, making it more of a challenge and less "epic boss killed in twenty seconds".)

The other option is to make the EXP/rewards equivalent to what you could earn in that time elsewhere, for less work.

---

Semantics. Rival Wings will eventually pop mid-morning, it just takes several hours. If new players have to wait upwards of 60+ minutes for two mandatory dungeons, they will be less inclined to keep playing.

The EXP would need to be equivalent to a full level. And if first-timers were unable to be kicked, not only does that open the door for rampant abuse, it forces people who may otherwise not be interested in the story to watch it. None of this even touches on the fact, if experience values were that enormous, people will simply make PFs, lock out new comers and insist everyone spam click through the story. Any solution beyond making the instance solo will only cause problems. Try all they fancy, the devs can't force us to do something.

Yea it's messed up for someone to type out all these spoilers...how spiteful I would be mad too wow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stardrifter

Threads like these are a little funny.

---

Yeah, neither side is in the wrong, really. I'm totally sympathetic to newbies who want to watch the story the way it was intended, and I'm also totally sympathetic to the fact that folks wouldn't want to watch the same cutscenes a hundred times, or stand around doing nothing while yet another batch of newbies watches the show. What's particularly hilarious is how short a time it took for this problem to arise - speed runs and pressuring folks to skip cutscenes were the norm within a MONTH of ARR's initial release (due in part to many folks coming in from 1.0 with fully-leveled characters).

This is why SE made the sensible decision of "never again". The question is what to do about the original mistake; it's too deeply ingrained to just cut the whole thing out. Up to this point, SE's stance has pretty much been to do nothing about it. It's kind of surprising that they've chosen to do something about it now.

I'll be watching this with interest. Maybe I'll even run a Roulette or two to help out. Unfortunately, though, it's been a long, long time since Main Scenario roulette has had anything to offer me; exp is plentiful from other sources, and I've little need for Poetics.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avatre

I find it to be an extremely easy(read: brain dead) way of getting 1.2m EXP on a level 63-64.

---

exactly... i know of no better way to grab a quick mil + in xp that requires absolutely no attention whatsoever. Sometimes, u just want it easy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Yeah, neither side is in the wrong, really.

---

Nah.

No sympathy for those forcing new players out of cutscenes.

If you're whining about it, you're burnt out on it. Stop queueing it.

Make the tomes or XP through any of the other million ways you can do so and cease imposing your burnout on players who are new and having fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mahri

Nah.

No sympathy for those forcing new players out of cutscenes.

If you're whining about it, you're burnt out on it. Stop queueing it.

Make the tomes or XP through any of the other million ways you can do so and cease imposing your burnout on players who are new and having fun.

---

Not defending it, but to be fair... I've seen people people throw a fit for not waiting on the newbie who's in cut-scene than I've seen people complain there's one in the first place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

If they make cut scenes mandatory regardless of player preference, Castrum and Praetorium die.

---

If the rewards keeps what they are right now, you are pretty right.

But if rewards get improved enough, even with all the cutscenes to view, that roulette can be an option as anything else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

If the rewards keeps what they are right now, you are pretty right.

But if rewards get improved enough, even with all the cutscenes to view, that roulette can be an option as anything else.

---

I think they'd have to do something ridiculous like guarantee a level up with some EXP left over or give out half of the tome cap to entice people to run the roulette. And as others have said before, even if they make unskippable cutscenes, you'd have the roulette runners trying to bully people for not skipping through the dialogue as fast as possible. Fingers still crossed they're making them solo instances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mahri

Nah.

No sympathy for those forcing new players out of cutscenes.

If you're whining about it, you're burnt out on it. Stop queueing it.

Make the tomes or XP through any of the other million ways you can do so and cease imposing your burnout on players who are new and having fun.

---

If everyone stops queuing, it dies and those players cannot progress. That has been the whole controversy since ARR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

If the rewards keeps what they are right now, you are pretty right.

But if rewards get improved enough, even with all the cutscenes to view, that roulette can be an option as anything else.

---

The rewards would have to absurdly high because I can garner 3M EXP each Doma Castle run; 4M from Gyr Abania. Both take roughly 20-ish minutes; a third the length of Praetorium with cut scenes going on. That essentially amounts to a level per day. I can tell you right now what will happen. PFs will be up claiming this is an "EXP only run. Skip all the dialogue." That gets around your prior scenarios where cut scenes are mandatory and you can't kick first timers.