RIP Minion Collectors :(

Well this news sucks for competitive Feast players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

It's not an ego thing, at least for me it isn't. I actually, truly love the PvP in this game. I even like Shatter (which apparently the majority hate). It's fine that you stand by the joke, but sadly, the joke is really on all of us whenever SE points to a mountain and offers a prize for reaching the top, then says you can climb it now or walk a trail later and still get the same reward. . . Months from now when people are less willing to queue for the Feast due to lessened incentives, burnout, and no real motivation, what will they offer then?

. . . then later in an easier way?

---

Except for the whole fact the achievement way comes before Season 3 even ends? so...?

Achievement comes in 3.5, Season 3 doesn't end until 3.55...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NargaHuntress

i wonder if they will do the same for the helldogo. ive wanted the hellhound as a mount sence i 1st did void ark.

---

gimme gimme gimme gimme

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lufir

Well this news sucks for competitive Feast players.

---

'Competitive Feast players' stopped quieing entirely near the end of last two seasons to protect their ratings. They don't deserve anything. If they truly enjoy PvP, let them play just for fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperZay

'Competitive Feast players' stopped quieing entirely near the end of last two seasons to protect their ratings. They don't deserve anything. If they truly enjoy PvP, let them play just for fun.

---

Well let's reward you for your time sitting afk in idyllshire.

Also, SE, I'm a AVID achievement hunter and the fact that the rank 1 achievement in feast is so EXCLUSIVE it just upsets me that me, and others, won't be able to have this prestigious achievement of being considered the best. Please give me a way to get this easily, maybe a certain number of Feast games played(not just wins, that is much to hard to do). I hope you consider this since you caved to the minion collectors that probably won't even summon the minion for a n hour before getting bored with it.

Much love and thanks SE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

Well let's reward you for your time sitting afk in idyllshire.

---

afk in idlyshire waiting for the dam feast qeue to pop while top pvpers sit on their ass in the last month to secure their place.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NargaHuntress

afk in idlyshire waiting for the dam feast qeue to pop while top pvpers sit on their ass in the last month to secure their place.

---

That's a nice cop out excuse for people that don't even try to play in the first place. Why don't you play right now when it's active? Oh wait you are actually secretly hoping they do the same for the mount. That's actually easier than, you know, playing the game and being good at it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

That's a nice cop out excuse for people that don't even try to play in the first place. Why don't you play right now when it's active? Oh wait you are actually secretly hoping they do the same for the mount. That's actually easier than, you know, playing the game and being good at it.

---

this is funny man. i played 1st,second and am playing this season. didnt get top 100 1st season cuz i came in late and had other things to do. second season was slightly the same i came late but i didnt stop qeueing i went up ever night and tried my damest. and when that last month came. nothing. it stoped it went from less then 5-10 mins to more then 30mins. for days it was like this i asked my fellow pvpers and got the same thing. so do not give me this shit. do not. and before you say anything else i asked and offered the idea of rating decay. they aint like it either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NargaHuntress

this is funny man. i played 1st,second and am playing this season. didnt get top 100 1st season cuz i came in late and had other things to do. second season was slightly the same i came late but i didnt stop qeueing i went up ever night and tried my damest. and when that last month came. nothing. it stoped it went from less then 5-10 mins to more then 30mins. for days it was like this i asked my fellow pvpers and got the same thing. so do not give me this shit. do not. and before you say anything else i asked and offered the idea of rating decay. they aint like it either.

---

So you tried your hardest season two but weren't able to make it while OTHER PEOPLE were. Be truthful man. This isn't about Feast dropping in activity, you are just not happy with the fact your best wasn't enough.

I also like how 'having other things to do' is a valid excuse..... A lot of people had better things to do when time exclusive mounts were offered and now they are impossible to get. You just lost out, get over it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperZay

'Competitive Feast players' stopped quieing entirely near the end of last two seasons to protect their ratings. They don't deserve anything. If they truly enjoy PvP, let them play just for fun.

---

By that logic they should removed loot and currency rewards from raids and dungeons at the same time. After all if they truly enjoyed that content, people would do it 'just for fun'.

The reality is that in games like FF14 people want to feel rewarded for the time they put in even if the thing they are doing is something they enjoy. In a game like an MMO it is necessary to cater to a diverse playerbase. I enjoy Frontlines in FF14 but I don't bother with them these days because there really isn't anything rewarding I can get from them that I want and I am capped on Wolf Marks. If anything I think one of the biggest issues with FF14's PvP and to a lesser extent the Gold Saucer, is the lack of incentive to do the content there, though in the Gold Saucer's case that's caused by the fact it is extremely easy to get MGP without actually engaging in any of the mini games like Chocobo Racing, Triple Triad and LoV.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NargaHuntress

this is funny man. i played 1st,second and am playing this season. didnt get top 100 1st season cuz i came in late and had other things to do. second season was slightly the same i came late but i didnt stop qeueing i went up ever night and tried my damest. and when that last month came. nothing. it stoped it went from less then 5-10 mins to more then 30mins. for days it was like this i asked my fellow pvpers and got the same thing. so do not give me this shit. do not. and before you say anything else i asked and offered the idea of rating decay. they aint like it either.

---

You don't solve this issue by nerfing the reward. You solve it by adjusting how the ranking system works. All this option does is remove the incentive to complete even if you can get to the top.

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sindele

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

---

That's not a bad compromise honestly. They get their exclusive thingy, can show off then it is let loose so others can get it while they chase after the next one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sindele

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

---

hmmm, someone just painting a bad picture not based in reality? Wow, seems like someone else is being disingenuous here.

Let's paint the real picture here. People are anti-achievement. They don't want to feel that someone else is better. This was never about the the time making this reward exclusive. There have been many people expressing that THEY WERE FINE WITH PAYING MONEY for time exclusive items like collectors edition minions.

TBH I don't see how people aren't calling for achievements being erased from the game, because there are some achievements that are impossible for some to achieve and in the same way you can show off you achievements points and number of minions you got they won't be able to 'complete' their point 'collection.'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

That's not a bad compromise honestly. They get their exclusive thingy, can show off then it is let loose so others can get it while they chase after the next one.

---

And then you realize why put in actual effort when you can just wait and get it for free. c;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sindele

Lots of comically disingenuous PVP posters in here. Could it be because the bulk of them don't actually care about the reward as much as the fact that other people want it? Hmm. It's almost like this is a pattern that's held true for over a decade of PVP reward schemes.

Ultimately, the best solution is just to continue carrying forward with the new paradigm of one season of exclusivity before it's released to the wild, just like a lot of PVE stuff goes through. Means there's always something to chase, and it gives a few months of strutting while idling between queues, while collectors can pick 'em up after the, uh, "prestige" wears off.

---

The fundamental difference is PvP is by its nature competitive. The amount of people really competitive about PvE is rather small. Competitive PvP, Prestige is the primary option for rewarding players, particularly when gear is basically normalised so you cant really grow more powerful like in PvE.

Prestige can age very well, particularly when you have a season set up like SE has done. SE is actively trying to encourage competitive PvP. Saying your a Season one winner holds value. When you see someone walking around in that set you know they were the top of that season. If everyone had that set that achievement loses value.

To be honest, it sounds like the bigger issue is how SE handles ranking. If people can sit out a month of PvP in a competitive season and still win that's an issue. Champions need to defend that spot even if coming in early allows them to get a head start on latecomers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

And then you realize why put in actual effort when you can just wait and get it for free. c;

---

Effort? As mentioned, and a horrible system, people can just sit in their ranking with no decay or incentive once they pitch their tent; that simple quirk kind of negates the prestige aspect in my opinion. It is also the same few names every season in the top spots, which leads me to believe it has stagnated. Feast helped PvP a bit, but the population is possibly on par with the raiding population: verrrrrry small.

You still get your achievement people can't get (and maybe a title? Not sure what the rewards are off-hand) and the minion way before anyone else does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Effort? As mentioned, and a horrible system, people can just sit in their ranking. It is also the same few names every season in the top spots. Feast helped PvP a bit, but the population is possibly on par with the raiding population: verrrrrry small.

---

And then you realize you can play and push those people out. But you don't so you would rather use that as a scapegoat as an excuse. Again there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from playing during the time when feast is active. Feast only truly dies after a major patch and then there is around 5 weeks of down time VERSUS THREE MONTHS OF ACTIVITY. You got no excuse especially when you don't put any effort into it in the first place.

Also complaining about the same people being in the top? Is that supposed to mean something? I don't even.

And you do realize people play for their spot right? That's called effort, didn't know if you knew that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

And then you realize you can play and push those people out. But you don't so you would rather use that as a scapegoat as an excuse. Again there is nothing stopping you or anyone else from playing during the time when feast is active. Feast only truly dies after a major patch and then there is around 5 weeks of down time VERSUS THREE MONTHS OF ACTIVITY. You got no excuse especially when you don't put any effort into it in the first place.

Also complaining about the same people being in the top? Is that supposed to mean something? I don't even.

---

It shows possible stagnation, when put together with people mentioning the wicked long queues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

It shows possible stagnation, when put together with people mentioning the wicked long queues.

---

Or maybe those people are just good. Shocking.

At any rate I'd love to see you all try and play, when Feast is still plenty active for at least another couple months before the next patch. But I won't hold my breath when all of you try to tear down any kind of mode that rewards skill. That is obviously much easier to do than measure yourself against others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

You don't solve this issue by nerfing the reward. You solve it by adjusting how the ranking system works. All this option does is remove the incentive to complete even if you can get to the top.

---

didnt ask for it to be like this but il take it. i dont understand what you dont get by having previous feast season rewards available for future feast season rewards along side the new ones as long as you get in the top 100. still gotta work for the dam thing but still gives people more incentive to do pvp. also said rating decay. gotta play every day so u dont get your points automatically lowered. am i missing something? i must be blind af or something. and in what way would u adjust the current ranking system?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

Or maybe those people are just good. Shocking.

---

Good AND lack of people to overthrow them, indicating a population issue (you cannot tell me they're SO good no one could possibly compete with them). If there was a bigger population the top spots would be contested more regularly. Again, if you can camp a rank (ignoring how that is one heck of a design flaw) that's indicative of a problem.

This post pretty much summarized the current problem of PvP:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3932289

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Good AND lack of people to overthrow them, indicating a population issue (you cannot tell me they're SO good no one could possibly compete with them). If there was a bigger population the top spots would be contested more regularly. Again, if you can camp a rank (ignoring how that is one heck of a design flaw) that's indicative of a problem.

---

Out of the people who are actually willing to play, yes, they are that good. But most of you admit defeat before even trying so there you go. People like you are just as much to blame.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

Out of the people who are actually willing to play, yes, they are that good. But most of you admit defeat before even trying so there you go. People like you are just as much to blame.

---

Difference between "willing" and "capable". Can anyone PvP? Sure. But the system is designed to basically put a wall up for newcomers and be a pain to scale over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

Egh, PvP in FFXIV suffers from so many issues it's not even funny.
2.) Barrier of entry
A short list of things you need to do to be competitive will probably get the point across best:
1. PvP Rank 50 to be on par with PvP abilities
2. iLvL 190+ in every slot, at least somewhat min/maxed in regards to secondaries (Accuracy is a no-no)
3. Cross Class abilities
Before you get this, you'll be at a tangible, numerical disadvantage. I'm already implying that you need to be 60, because lvl 50 queues scarcely pop. This is in no small part caused by the next point.

---

This nails what I would say is the biggest problem. Unless you get new blood to mix things up a bit, it will always be the same handful and get somewhat stale. Again, shown by the fact people can literally camp their rank.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Difference between "willing" and "capable". Can anyone PvP? Sure. But the system is designed to basically put a wall up for newcomers and be a pain to scale over.

---

You realize everyone has to deal with the same thing right? And here we go with the newcomer bit..... your sense of entitlement is showing sir.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

You realize everyone else has to deal with the same thing right? And here we go with the newcomer bit..... your sense of entitlement is showing sir.

---

How is removing the barriers so everyone is on equal footing entitlement? It becomes more skill-based than "oh, I lost cause I didn't have X unlocked..." Yes, everyone has to deal with it but PvP has been around enough it is somewhat fragmented between those who have done it for a while and those just getting into it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

How is removing the barriers so everyone is on equal footing entitlement? It becomes more skill-based than "oh, I lost cause I didn't have X unlocked..." Yes, everyone has to deal with it but PvP has been around enough it is somewhat fragmented between those who have done it for a while and those just getting into it.

---

As much as I agree the 'top' PVPers have their elitist circle with not much of a population to be elitist with, how does having achievements and gear barriers different to PVE?

If I want to raid, do I ask for i250 gear? No I have to earn it as well as learn my PVE rotations, not have it handed to me on 'an equal footing' platter.

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

---

Ya, it should be win or lose, so you can just throw 200 games and then have your mount right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

Ya, it should be win or lose, so you can just throw 200 games and then have your mount right?

---

Your elitism is truly amazing. Who is to say they'll just throw a game... 200 freaking times at that?
Edit: Heck, this could very well encourage more to join in PvP which is always good. Or would you prefer it be kept to a tight inner circle?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MihaelB

As much as I agree the 'top' PVPers have their elitist circle with not much of a population to be elitist with, how does having achievements and gear barriers different to PVE?

If I want to raid, do I ask for i250 gear? No I have to earn it as well as learn my PVE rotations, not have it handed to me on 'an equal footing' platter.

---

Subtle difference is PvE does get nerfed to lower the barrier. While else would Midas Savage get echo buffs?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aviars

hmmm, someone just painting a bad picture not based in reality? Wow, seems like someone else is being disingenuous here.

Let's paint the real picture here. People are anti-achievement. They don't want to feel that someone else is better. This was never about the the time making this reward exclusive. There have been many people expressing that THEY WERE FINE WITH PAYING MONEY for time exclusive items like collectors edition minions.

TBH I don't see how people aren't calling for achievements being erased from the game, because there are some achievements that are impossible for some to achieve and in the same way you can show off you achievements points and number of minions you got they won't be able to 'complete' their point 'collection.'

---

I see you haven't done anything to disclaim my point, instead running back to the refuge of claiming that everyone just wants everything easy.

What gets me the most here is that it's not merely enough to have *done* it and to be able to prove it and to have an item that proves it, there's an above-and-beyond desire - visible in this very thread, from these very reactions - that it MUST be more exclusive and visible than ANY other sort of limited achievement in the game because WE EARNED IT, as if nobody else has ever earned anything as much as top 10 PVPers have, and that anyone who finds that farcical or wants that to come with an eventual time limit on its exclusivity as a compromise is, what, entitled/lazy/bad/wrong/choose your own of any of the various not-particularly-compelling-or-factual reasons here. Pfft.

But hey, while I'm in the business of thinking about productive ways to bridge the gap: what if the minions had been made tradeable? How many of them would have been sold in the end, I wonder? I'd bet at least 70%.

Hell, what if it was instead a reward for hitting top whatever ever - probably further down than 10 unless something like decay comes into play, for previously mentioned reasons - as opposed to just the end of the season? The prestige title still exists, a prestige item still exists, but it would be something that proves that you at least tried, as well as something to strive for that keeps people queueing and doesn't expire with time. Isn't that exactly the sort of thing you claim to want?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fawkes

I stopped PvPing completely when they added the mini airship mount, because I really wanted it but will never be able to get 200 wins. If it was just play 200 matches win or lose I probably would have tried. But PvP is kind of inherently "unfair" and I have much less control over my ability to win than I do in PvE content. I never got a horse or a ball either and at this point I'd just rather not add to the number of active PvP players and have SE think I'm enjoying this.

---

You can get the mount even through the unranked 8v8 matches. I did. After all the ranked ones I did, I just played 8v8s with other PvPers, even some of the top ones for fun. Some days later when I randomly went to the achievement guy, I discovered I'd earned and didn't even know.

You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sicno

"Minion collection" has to be one of the most selfish excuses I've seen for someone to demand they also get a better chance at an exclussive reward. While at it, why don't we ask we get the art/screenshot/etc. contest rewards as achievements too? I happen to be an earring collector! It's unfair that we get a limited time chance at those!

I can see why they came up with these prizes. It's meant to be a cool thing for the winners of the season to show around, something for other people to say "oooh, look at that guy!" and it's a fair reward for the winners of the entire season of a pvp mode the devs meant to be competitive. And this request is a display of how selfish this community can be. I'm really disappointed.

---

Minions, unlike mounts and cosmetic gear, are actually used in other content, as something with valid stats. *points at Verminion*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

Yeah, been that way for a long time. And now PvP as well, apparently. . . I'm starting to run out of reasons for wanting to do anything and be proficient at it.

---

Seems you already forgot the crying when they got rid of rank requirements for old PvP gear.

I occasionally pvp when I feel like it and I in no why whatsoever, believe that the devs should have bowed down to this, its ridiculous. It's so silly, keep exclusive incentives for people to do stuff, and actually you know try? and be proud of things they accomplished in game.

Time to write a thread RIP LEGACY TATOO, cos I really want that and now I know if I cry enough I'll get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zhexos

...

---

https://i.imgflip.com/1e0osa.jpg

I feel like they put way too much though into the whole PvP thing. Only a handful will try out PvP but let's say if the majority comes from old school rpgs, they are likely not going to like PvP just like that - either you are competitive and like it or you just don't.
PvP is always a difficult topic but in an FF title and its history, your target audience for PvP is already close to none - baiting them with minions with x-wins won't make them miraculously go PvP now as seen in this thread.

As to improve it... I'm not sure myself. The feast itself seemed like a step into the right direction but the majority of my ingame surroundings just couldn't care less about it - even if it had the super duper ultimate reward that would change your life (ok some might do it then but they won't be happy doing it, this much I can tell already)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shikiseki

your target audience for PvP is already close to none - baiting them with minions with x-wins won't make them miraculously go PvP now as seen in this thread.

---

In a simplistic summary, it's boring and it has long queues adding to the boredom. Smacking people for 10 minutes over and over and over in the same map is not 'fun' by any means to me and I assume a large majority of players. Other games like League of Legends have billions poured into smacking people on different maps, you just can't compete when League is free and has pretty much 0 queue time.

I don't come on FFXIV to smack people, I assume others don't too from the comments and general activity we see from the 20min+ queues (people are organising times to queue together just to even get in), yet we see continual PVP updates for dead content they keep trying to resuscitate when it's already stopped breathing.

Irony is people have no problems with the mass-complaint and SE concession in response here to PvP but then there is suddenly an uproar over nerfs to PvE content. If SE is going to be consistent there should be no complaints about removing "exclusive" rewards from a panoply of PvE content and "making savage gear obsolete," after all the goal is higher clear rates for all and so that everyone has a good chance of getting the best gear?

Surely Savage should be removed from the game entirely, right? Only a minority of the game pop plays that content and it's unfair for that minority to get tangible rewards (gear) from that content on top of minions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frowny

Who is to say they'll just throw a game... 200 freaking times at that?

---

There is actually plenty of peoples who would do this simply because its faster just to throw a match than actually try and win it(less than 1min VS 8min). We already got glimpse of this when Feast was fastest way to grind tomes for relics.

Thank you SE. :)

I see this as good for both sides. The top PVPer might not have so many "bad" players in their team because people dont need to take part in the season anymore to get it and people that want to collect all ingame minions are still able to get it later. I mean we dont even know what we have to do to get the achievement. Maybe its 500 wins in the Feast or something like that but at least we can try to get to it on our own time.

Such long time achievements are imo way better as an incentive than limited rewards. For someone that constantly plays PVP 500 wins for example would not be enough but for someone that is only at the beginning this means some long time investment thus having people play it longer. If you have a minion as such a limited reward in the season you will first loose all those that know that they will never get it thus them staying away from PVP or the ones that are trying to get it but wont get it thanks to the small number of winners. Maybe they will say that this was way to annoying and thus wont ever get back to PVP again.

With an achievement this would at least give everyone the same change to get it and might motivate some people to try out the feast.

i really want fenrir cub

I personally have never seen the appeal of PVP in a MMORPG, but that is just me. I see PVP as a place where it brings out the worst in peoples behaviour and such.
Like when I actually were pretty good in PVP in WOW, until I started getting people I killed make Alt characters on my server to send me death threats and harassed me to no end.
It kinda turned me off of PVP in MMOs at least for good. If I want PVP action, I play COD, Battlefield, Overwatch, as those games are not something I sink so many hours of my life into compared to XIV/MMOs. ;)