I'd like an answer to this. As far as I can tell, most of them tend to be random.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quanta
The Ifrit Fight is Dangerous to the Community.
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10-31-2011, 01:42 PMSilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 01:43 PMgrandmplease SE i'm not sure why u allow me to play all classes and pick which ability's i want to use from each. can't you just pretend i killed him, instead of giving me the tools do do so?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 01:43 PMBelialThat's what she said?Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard_BG
On another note, holy sh-t another one of these threads by you. I guess no one's ruined the secret about the fight to you yet. :O -
10-31-2011, 01:44 PMYumi_Hibiki
wow this is really getting silly, just let her parley with the damn primal or something i dont care anymore.
in b4 parley is too hard... -
10-31-2011, 01:45 PMPrettyPrincess
What a joke
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10-31-2011, 01:46 PMGaoYou know if they did this people would complain about not being able to beat R45+ right? It just makes things into a circle and people who are also like you will QQ about Ifrit being to hard to beat on R45. It's going to be the SAME EXACT THING.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 01:46 PMIsaarubahhhh beat me to it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki
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10-31-2011, 01:47 PMJynxI doubt your friend will be motivated to play the slightly easier Ifrit fight if there is 0 reward. I know tons of people who flat out suck at this game, and I did also in XI.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
Hell I still let them come to dangerous fights, cost me time/money/seals/loot.
I guess I'm just willing to play the game with my friends, eventually they got better at the game and then we could do those exact same fights and win! We didn't need a easy mode to learn and the consequences for failure were a million times worse than the poor excuse for a Death pentalty that has a hard time even being considered a hinderance let alone a penalty.
Also I should expand on your bull-headedness to not level any class other than one, Square Enix is allready adressing your issue with Multi-classing being extremly powerfull against singular.
JOBS: Will have skills only available to that job, and restrictions on what skills it can equip from other jobs from what we know so far.
So quit your whining about not wanting to level other classes in a game "Up to the point of jobs" litteraly focussed on the benifits of multiple jobs and verticle progression instead of just flat horizontal progression. You refused to play the game the way that would make you the most usefull, don't cry about it when you find yourself out of options just because you don't deem the content that exists outside your world of "One class onry guys" worthy of use. -
10-31-2011, 01:48 PMSilvertearRenAnd personally, from my own experience, I've always felt that having scaling difficulty of the same fight can adequately prepare you for the final difficulty level. In a world with repeatable content, the value of such scaling difficulty goes down, but it can still be a positive feature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
As I see it, it's like combat training for a specific scenario. You know, like the first map in Call of Duty 4 before you go to that cargo ship for the actual mission.
Maybe there are multiple points to the discussion that can be made. As far as I can tell, there are three issues with the Ifrit fight.
- The potential for the community to be divided over it
- The difficulty level, the desire to have it scale to the player's preference
- The ability to survive and beat Ifrit in the main fight.
Yes, it does make the fight easier, but suppose I don't have the time to run around leveling up all the beneficial classes and would prefer to focus on two classes? I end up gimping myself in the context of the Ifrit fight in terms of "the ideal situation".Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
The suggestion doesn't really take into account that there can be multiple circumstances with the player that can make the fight even more difficult to learn.
That's not being very inclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 01:48 PMAlerithPlayer:"I say good sir, might I have a word? You see, your presence in our world is causing something of a panic, and we have theories that our moon may collide with out planet should you continue to absorb our aether. I have here a petition signed by citizens of all three free city-states asking that you kindly relocate to another dimension so that everyone can live on in peace."Quote:
Originally Posted by Yumi_Hibiki
Ifrit: "Oh, totally man. It's cool. Jeeze, I thought you wanted to fight me or something."
Player: "Good lord sir! Do you know what that would require? Skill aside, I might have to get abilities from other classes! And, Gods forbid, a competent party!"
Ifrit: "Mmm, yes. I see your point, verily."
Player: "Quite." -
10-31-2011, 01:49 PMTreachThen find a group that can kill it with just 7 and stop crying on the forums? I'm starting to get a little annoyed about what you expect and want, so I think I'm going to stop posting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 01:50 PMTeuciont
Aren't you the same person with the thread about your friends that find XIV too exciting and can't handle it or they'll have a nervous breakdown?
The same person who thinks all endgame should have different levels of difficulty so those that aren't really dedicated to the game should be able to experience the same content as someone who puts a lot of effort into the game?
Yeah, I thought so. This thread should honestly just be closed. It's a goal to work toward, that's the point of MMO's, I really don't see what your constant nagging across multiple threads is supposed to do. -
10-31-2011, 01:50 PMBruceyBruceyBangBang
This content is called hard because it's hard. You need this kind of content to keep that kind of player going. This is why they made the loot random and requires you to beat it over 80-100 times if you wanted to get every weapon ON TOP of making it challenging.
Server response and animation lock have something to do with making this a bit more challenging, but there are really good ways at besting this. Try, try again and look at ifrit's stances which are specific to each WS and learn them to know when to run away or embrace a plume. Even if you got a 1 second head start learning these stances you can mostly best the environment.
As far as needing several classes ranked in order to do the fight, you don't need to do this, but it does help you and make things easier. They know that hardcore players, like myself, have every battlecraft or almost every battlecraft ranked max. These battles are for players like me because hard core players make time to accomplish whatever difficult content is thrown at them. While players without the resources make little time, fail, then think there is something wrong with the development of this content when it's just simply not designed for you in mind. The development team creates content for all kinds of players. If it so happens that you need all the hoop jumping for a fight, and the requirements seem to overwhelm you, it's safe to say it wasn't designed for casuals.
Do not take this in the way I know you're going to take this. I am just being blunt. I don't see this content as superior to other content or that this player type is superior to yours. Just calling it as I see it. -
10-31-2011, 01:52 PMYumi_Hibikibest... post... EVER! *wipes tear*Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 01:52 PMSilvertearRenI cannot stop laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 01:54 PMBetelgeuzahOf course. But we can also look at the situation objectively (which I did), as from an actual player skill requirement wise Final Fantasy encounters are on the side of easy to mundane. It's either a cake or you grind and then it's a cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by grandm
And the genre it belongs to is really not an excuse. Just because it's an RPG doesn't mean it should get away by being easy and stat grind-focused.
All that aside, Parley should be the obvious answer here. -
10-31-2011, 01:55 PMgrandmi declare witch. how dare some1 have freedom of thought burn her. (i wonder what the date is)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 01:57 PMSilvertearRenI understand the idea of having content specifically for hardcore and casual players, but that would essentially divide the community. Not exactly something I want to see happening to FFXIV. :\Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang
I know Ifrit has certain stances to each weaponskill. The problem is being able to memorize them properly. I really do not have the mental clarity to accomplish memorization of the finer nuances of the Ifrit fight, and yet I would like to at least be able to beat him.
I used to be a hardcore player in other MMO's when I was younger and sharper. Those days are definitely behind me, and I have no desire to really revisit those habits. -
10-31-2011, 02:00 PMSilvertearRenPersonally, if they implement Parley, it's just a cheap cop-out. I'd rather have to go through a quest that would take me some time that I can do in installments. Like...I start the quest, I spend a few hours a week working on that quest for maybe a month or more, and at the conclusion, I gain an item that lets me make the Ifrit fight easier. (while, naturally, PENALIZING the drop chance for ifrit equipment, or nerfing it entirely)Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
It would also offer more content for side story quests, and it isn't an easy one-push button for winning. Maybe a harder version of the first Ifrit quest where you have to go kill those NMs, but those NMs end up being MUCH more difficult, like, rank 45ish.
That would be an acceptable solution that doesn't feel like a complete and total cop-out. -
10-31-2011, 02:01 PMBetelgeuzahWhat you will do, instead of dividing the community, is to instead expel and ignore one part of it completely for your own selfish needs.Quote:
I understand the idea of having content specifically for hardcore and casual players, but that would essentially divide the community. Not exactly something I want to see happening to FFXIV. :\
Hardcore have nothing to do? Hardcore quit and gtfo.
Or, with each major patch, the new content will be the next "hard" content and previous content is made easier so everyone can catch up.Quote:
Like...I start the quest, I spend a few hours a week working on that quest for maybe a month or more, and at the conclusion, I gain an item that lets me make the Ifrit fight easier.
Since you seem to be open for the idea of waiting a while to give it a try anyway. -
10-31-2011, 02:02 PMNibelungValestiBest. Post. Ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 02:02 PMTreachDo you have to listen to a tape telling you to breath in and out?Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 02:03 PMBruceyBruceyBangBangThen I don't know what you want to happen. You either make content for casual or hardcore or both. There is a reason why these types of fights and events are separate. Difficulty cannot blend in with each other and when you do this, you will find a medium which results in dull execution and hardly any sense of accomplishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
I don't see the divide. That is specific to the person. If the hard core player in question decides to segregate him/her self from the community based on accomplishments and/or content. That is their weakness and there is nothing that can remedy that. That is who they are and what they will show you regardless. This isn't a problem regarding hardcore content. This is a problem you have personally with someone that enjoys that content. Do not confuse the two. -
10-31-2011, 02:03 PMForerunner/123456789Quote:
Originally Posted by Alerith
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10-31-2011, 02:03 PMBigThanatosSo you don't want to have to think during the fight to kill him, k got it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 02:04 PMViridianaYou don't even need to memorize that. Being even half-way competent at seeing the attacks as they're happening should be enough to move out of the way. Seriously, just go in under the assumption that you're going to die repeatedly, and use it as a learning experience. Stop stressing out over a game. . .Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 02:05 PMSilvertearRenYes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teuciont
I suggested that the lower difficulty levels have a nerfed reward compared to the higher difficulty level, that is a fair tradeoff in my eyes. I don't see why you are complaining. I'll have some cheap, crappy cavalry haubergeon +1 while you get the +10 Ifrit Haubergeon of Glory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teuciont
Your resistance will only make me harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teuciont
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10-31-2011, 02:05 PMBetelgeuzah
Granted, as far as other MMO's go this is hardly "hardcore" content. This is the easy mode to the hard mode in those games. It's not surprising, though, that the over-all skill level of a normal XIV player is lower than that of someone from those games, perhaps partly due to the braindead gameplay for the first half of the year.
The player penetration is just too high for this to be considered legitimately "hard". People clear it in 5mins and make it look like a joke. A true hard-mode would pack a punch regardless of how many times you've given it a try. -
10-31-2011, 02:06 PMSilvertearRenMaybe I do want that. Because, I've spent 15 years thinking so much, I need a vacation.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigThanatos
Whose responsibility was that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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10-31-2011, 02:07 PMBruceyBruceyBangBang
Now guys, don't jump on the guy for having a problem with memorization. However, I will have to say... you only need to learn three different stances. Three. It isn't hard to remember even for a person with poor memorization.
You just are not trying. It's as simple as that. -
10-31-2011, 02:10 PMSilvertearRenUh. Um. Since when is scaleable content "expelling" hardcore players? It simply adds the ability to include casuals in the content, while retaining the "hardcore" mode. Hardcore players can just simply ignore the lower levels and do the higher level option if they're so hellbent on being true hardcore?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
Yes, I'm open to the idea of waiting, but it's not going to stop me from being critical of what I see as bad game design in an advancing genre.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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10-31-2011, 02:12 PMSilvertearRenVery well, then. I shall examine that data, if you can provide me with a link. Is there a wiki with each known stance, each known precursor to all known attacks, as well as the timers? I could probably take a few minutes each day to review that information before/after I deal with household business/college business.Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang
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10-31-2011, 02:14 PMForerunner
Ifrit fight is easy compared to this....
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10-31-2011, 02:15 PMVolsung
Server lag is a huge issue. Even when I make sure to WS after ifrit tp moves so that I'm rarely animation locked, I can be far out of the spots on my own screen and still get hit.
On top of that, in cases where I die, players have said that while on their screen and I die on the spot, my dead body will sail to where I actually am on my own screen. (in a very safe location far from the blast) -
10-31-2011, 02:15 PMTreachNope, because it's something you can just pick up in 5 or so tries, assuming you don't have the brain of a goldfish.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
I totally started typing this before I saw the goldfish video posted btw, that was a smart goldfish. -
10-31-2011, 02:17 PMSilvertearRenWhat if I do have a brain of a goldfish?Quote:
Originally Posted by Treach
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10-31-2011, 02:19 PMForerunnerGreat minds think alike, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Treach
Practice makes perfect, even a goldfish can memorize tunnel = food, and they got the short end of the stick when someone was handing out short term and long term memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 02:20 PMTreachNow I feel bad for making fun of goldfish :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Forerunner
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10-31-2011, 02:20 PMwhoopeeragonThen may god have mercy on your soul.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvertearRen
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10-31-2011, 02:22 PMSilvertearRenI get the feeling He hasn't been merciful to me these past five years. :|Quote:
Originally Posted by whoopeeragon