Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

Preypacer, you are trying to say that because we want to invest time into our characters that aren't getting wiped come v2.0 (which I and everyone else who has been playing is really looking forward to), we feel that this game is in a position worthy of being billed for.

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No, I'm making no such presumptions. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Whether people decide the game is worth paying for or not is entirely up to them. I've said as much in a previous post: if people don't feel it's worth paying for, then they'll do the same thing they'd do with any other MMO... don't subscribe.

What I'm saying is I find it funny how people have been playing for up to 13 months, making quite a lot of progress in that time in some cases... and yet will now complain that the game is "in horrible condition", "unfinished", and not worth paying for. It's good enough to keep them entertained and occupied for all that time, through all those hours and all those play sessions... but now suddenly "oh it's in horrible shape", "oh it's unfinished", "oh it's this...", "oh it's that...". The hyperbole is really quite much in some cases.

I find it funnier that the people doing the most complaining are the people who have gotten the most out of the free time offered over the past 13 months, especially those conveniently deciding they "haven't gotten what they paid for" after all that time, now that free time is coming to an end.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

I can assure you that if there was a character wipe coming around the corner for 2.0, not a single person would be playing right now, let alone paying for it a couple down months the road (barring some extreme fan-boys).

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Oh what a presumptuous crock of BS.

You can't "assure" me anything. You don't know what everyone else would do, "fanboys" or otherwise. Unless you wish to share this mystical power you have to know what everyone else thinks and what everyone else would do... without actually knowing or having spoken to everyone else.

Do yourself a favor: speak for yourself.

Aside from that, it's worth noting that how you so preemptively refer to those who would disagree with your views dismissively as "extreme fanboys" says a lot about your intolerance of differing opinions. Not a quality I'd be proud of.

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

With that being said, your stance is that because we want to keep advancing our characters, that automatically means that we like the game enough to pay for it. That is a logical fallcy .

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Ahhhh not quite.

First, you're putting words in my mouth again. Please knock it off.

Second, that you want to continue playing the game but don't want to pay for it is your problem to sort out, not SE's.

You either pay when subs are reinstated and continue progressing your character... or you don't sub and your character stays where it is until some point down the road that you should decide you'd like to sub again.

Those will be your options come Dec. when they reinstate subs... just as they'll be mine and everyone else's.

It's the same exact choice you have with any other MMORPG you may have bought and stopped subbing to. If you want to play the game, you pay the sub. If you don't pay the sub - whatever your reasons - then you don't get to play it. Can't have it both ways.

Yoshi stated the conditions under which they would decide when it was time to reinstate subs about a year ago. They have stayed on track and worked to fulfill those conditions. Yoshi and SE have concluded that 1.20 will bring the game to where they can fairly ask for a sub fee. Even at that, he's allowing free time even after 1.20 before reinstating subs so people can check it out and make an informed decision on whether it's worth it to them or not.

Then the ball will be in yours, mine and everyone else's court as to whether we continue playing or not.

You may not like it... but that's just the way it's gonna be.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

No, I'm making no such presumptions. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Whether people decide the game is worth paying for or not is entirely up to them. I've said as much in a previous post: if people don't feel it's worth paying for, then they'll do the same thing they'd do with any other MMO... don't subscribe.

What I'm saying is I find it funny how people have been playing for up to 13 months, making quite a lot of progress in that time in some cases... and yet will now complain that the game is "in horrible condition", "unfinished", and not worth paying for. It's good enough to keep them entertained and occupied for all that time, through all those hours and all those play sessions... but now suddenly "oh it's in horrible shape", "oh it's unfinished", "oh it's this...", "oh it's that...". The hyperbole is really quite much in some cases.

I find it funnier that the people doing the most complaining are the people who have gotten the most out of the free time offered over the past 13 months, especially those conveniently deciding they "haven't gotten what they paid for" after all that time, now that free time is coming to an end.



Oh what a presumptuous crock of BS.

You can't "assure" me anything. You don't know what everyone else would do, "fanboys" or otherwise. Unless you wish to share this mystical power you have to know what everyone else thinks and what everyone else would do... without actually knowing or having spoken to everyone else.

Do yourself a favor: speak for yourself.

Aside from that, it's worth noting that how you so preemptively refer to those who would disagree with your views dismissively as "extreme fanboys" says a lot about your intolerance of differing opinions. Not a quality I'd be proud of.



Ahhhh not quite.

First, you're putting words in my mouth again. Please knock it off.

Second, that you want to continue playing the game but don't want to pay for it is your problem to sort out, not SE's.

You either pay when subs are reinstated and continue progressing your character... or you don't sub and your character stays where it is until some point down the road that you should decide you'd like to sub again.

Those will be your options come Dec. when they reinstate subs... just as they'll be mine and everyone else's.

It's the same exact choice you have with any other MMORPG you may have bought and stopped subbing to. If you want to play the game, you pay the sub. If you don't pay the sub - whatever your reasons - then you don't get to play it. Can't have it both ways.

Yoshi stated the conditions under which they would decide when it was time to reinstate subs about a year ago. They have stayed on track and worked to fulfill those conditions. Yoshi and SE have concluded that 1.20 will bring the game to where they can fairly ask for a sub fee. Even at that, he's allowing free time even after 1.20 before reinstating subs so people can check it out and make an informed decision on whether it's worth it to them or not.

Then the ball will be in yours, mine and everyone else's court as to whether we continue playing or not.

You may not like it... but that's just the way it's gonna be.

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lol

/10char

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

lol

/10char

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And with that obvious concession... I rest my case.

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Originally Posted by Tyrr

What happens IF 2.0 is a failure? Charging full price atm may not be a good idea until 2.0 proves itself. The game that we are playing right now is not the exact game we will be playing post 2.0. I understand that SE would like to see something for what they have done so far but I feel it isn't at full price level yet.

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I don't think this is about SE making money I think this is about SE bringing in capital to pay for the project.

This is my hypothesis: A year ago everyone was thinking tweaks and updates to an existing game in order to address certain poorly thought out ideas. Now we are talking about what amounts to a new game based somewhat on the old one and its going to take another 15+ months to complete it plus roll out a PS3 version.

Oh and the Japanese economy is shaky, the most powerful natural force on earth rose up from its bed and smacked them one, their credit rating like America's has been downgraded, and the world may be heading into another recession.

To keep this project going for another 15 months its not unreasonable to expect that they need income plus investment. I think I read somewhere that not charging meant they had to forgo outside investment in the redevelopment of the software. I'd kind of like to see them get a nice big pile of cash to make 2.0 a reality. If charging me a monthly fee makes that happen then I'm all for it.

We get to develop characters, make gil, and get achievements that no one else will ever be able to get. All of that will be ported into the new game. We also get to give feedback and in a small way help develop the game into its final form. I don't see a problem here, but if others do they can rest assured that SE has taken steps to make sure you won't be charged without first reaffirming your consent for them to do so. A lot of American companies wouldn't be so nice about it.

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Originally Posted by Zeroeffect

Well that will be going out the door in about 2 months...

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Yes I know that.

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Originally Posted by Zeroeffect

I would start looking for another game real soon if I were you.

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That remains to be seen once I make a final assessment of the value of their product vs. the price they will end up charging. Can't say for sure until 1.21 or whenever it is they finally set up P2P. If Diablo III is out by then, my search for another game won't be very long.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

If it entertain them for 12-15months...
They can surely enjoy it when its P2P...

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Sure it can.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

It doesn't matter if its free or not...

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Yes it does. Once you have to pay for stuff, customers do a cost/benefit analysis to see what else they can get for the same amount of money. If there are a lot of other better alternatives to spend 12 bucks a month on, they will do it.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Or else why play it?

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Because they like the game, of course. BUT, the question is, do they like it enough to pay $12 a month for it?

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Originally Posted by Starlord

A game doesn't magically become not entertaining when fees go up, Sorry it doesn't work like that :/.

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No, of course it doesn't "magically become not entertaining when fees go up". That's a ridiculous assertions and no one is making that claim. What happens when "fees go up" is that the product for sale is judged alongside its competing products. Right now, playing FF14 is free, so all concerns about competing products is totally irrelevant since price is not a factor. Once price does become a factor, there is a real price value judgement that every consumer is going to make about this game and whether the price justifies the quality of the product.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Okay, so if it's not good enough to pay a sub.. then there are plenty of other F2P MMOs out there that they find to be "good enough to play for free" that will never have a sub.

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Aside from the initial purchase of the game (which can be totally avoided with the use of a buddy pass), this game is actually freer to pay, than other "F2P" MMOs since there are no microtransactions involved.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

I'd say it's a bit more than just "good enough to play for free" considering how dilligently some of them are fighting to keep it that way. Clearly there are things about the game they enjoy and want to continue playing for, or what would the big deal be? They'd say "Okay, well it was fun while it was free, so now I'll just go find another game".

But that's not quite what they're doing, is it?

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Actually, I think that is what they're (most of them) are doing.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Nope, people are stomping, pouting, threatening, demanding, pleading and so on trying to keep it free or substantially discounted...

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I wouldn't quite characterize their behavior as such.

From my point of view, it's called "engaging in discussion about how accurately the monthly fee will reflect the quality of product being purchased".

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

It'll be interesting to see how many of those here who insist they're leaving when subs start actually end up sticking around anyway, proving all their threats, demands and ultimatums to be nothing but hot air.

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If the game, at the time of the installation of monthly fees, does in fact live up to their expectations of what a proper MMO should be then they'll stay. If not, they'll leave.

We'll see when we get to that point in time.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Right now, playing FF14 is free, so all concerns about competing products is totally irrelevant since price is not a factor. Once price does become a factor, there is a real price value judgement that every consumer is going to make about this game and whether the price justifies the quality of the product.

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Which brings up another point. You think that it's no longer the trendy thing for blow-hard, know-nothing, ''played it for 10 minutes so I can write a credible review'' critics to pick on FFXIV? No. Once this game officially goes pay to play, it will get demolished. It may even drag the metacitric score down even more.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Yes I know that.


That remains to be seen once I make a final assessment of the value of their product vs. the price they will end up charging. Can't say for sure until 1.21 or whenever it is they finally set up P2P. If Diablo III is out by then, my search for another game won't be very long.


Sure it can.


Yes it does. Once you have to pay for stuff, customers do a cost/benefit analysis to see what else they can get for the same amount of money. If there are a lot of other better alternatives to spend 12 bucks a month on, they will do it.


Because they like the game, of course. BUT, the question is, do they like it enough to pay $12 a month for it?


No, of course it doesn't "magically become not entertaining when fees go up". That's a ridiculous assertions and no one is making that claim. What happens when "fees go up" is that the product for sale is judged alongside its competing products. Right now, playing FF14 is free, so all concerns about competing products is totally irrelevant since price is not a factor. Once price does become a factor, there is a real price value judgement that every consumer is going to make about this game and whether the price justifies the quality of the product.


Aside from the initial purchase of the game (which can be totally avoided with the use of a buddy pass), this game is actually freer to pay, than other "F2P" MMOs since there are no microtransactions involved.


Actually, I think that is what they're (most of them) are doing.


I wouldn't quite characterize their behavior as such.

From my point of view, it's called "engaging in discussion about how accurately the monthly fee will reflect the quality of product being purchased".


If the game, at the time of the installation of monthly fees, does in fact live up to their expectations of what a proper MMO should be then they'll stay. If not, they'll leave.

We'll see when we get to that point in time.

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I'm sorry I just don't agree with your Logic.

They knew from the start it was P2P and at some point it was going to happen.
Progessing a character when in the end they will reach a halt when it comes P2P is kinda Stupid ( but to each of there own)

Reasons:

- This is a P2P game since the Beginning ( they just weren't Charging us till they had a roadmap outline, which happened)
- If they enjoyed for this long ( 1 year+), they obviously can enjoy it for 12.99
- If they stopped after three months of playing it I could deeply understand
- Since most players currently playing has played it for 1 year + " when a price goes up" statement is kinda dull imho.
- If they didn't like the game they shouldn't have played it after they realized its not entertaining them

I'm not saying in anyway they should pay for this game, its their money use it as you will. but saying I loved it for a year one moment and the next its " a Broken game" just doesn't add up.

As I said and I'll say it again- If you like the game and what to continue playing it, then pay. If you don't like the game and don't want to continue playing, then don't pay

Simple

/thread

Complex

/dazedandconfused

I think a special, lower price than usual reflects on the principle of the matter. And that's really what concerns people, is principle, reputation, trust, etc.

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Originally Posted by Ava

A better compromise IMO would be to make a super ultra discounted bulk deal. Like, buy a year's subscription for $6/mo, 6 month sub for $9/mo, or pay $12/mo recurring

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THIS THIS THIS. I'll pay for a bulk sub if I get a discounted rate for it!

Edit: You know what I find funny about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people defending the $12 sub fee, but I've noticed a steady stream of DIFFERENT people chiming in saying that a $5-$7 sub fee would keep them, but nobody is taking them into account. It's just the same damn people defending SE's decision yelling louder than the new posters in this thread. Guess that's the Internet for ya. Keep trying to convince them Rentahamster. I'll be silently cheering for ya.

That was how it was originally. I can't remember the deal but basically if you paid for a full year you got 1 month free from getting the discount.

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Originally Posted by Bahn

THIS THIS THIS. I'll pay for a bulk sub if I get a discounted rate for it!

Edit: You know what I find funny about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people defending the $12 sub fee, but I've noticed a steady stream of DIFFERENT people chiming in saying that a $5-$7 sub fee would keep them, but nobody is taking them into account. It's just the same damn people defending SE's decision yelling louder than the new posters in this thread. Guess that's the Internet for ya. Keep trying to convince them Rentahamster. I'll be silently cheering for ya.

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I'm NOT against a discount, in fact if that's the chosen route they chose, then awesome less money I have to pay for the game.

However, If the 12.95 stays as is, I feel as a player that its worth my investment, Especially since I'll be living a tale, that will only be told once. That alone is worth my 12.95 ( or your so called discounted price) I'm not defending it, I'm merely stating I will pay 12.95 if it stays the way it is.

Just because you want a discounted price because you been playing the game for free for a year, doesn't mean SE has to cave in after giving us 1.3 years of free game time.

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Originally Posted by Ava

A better compromise IMO would be to make a super ultra discounted bulk deal. Like, buy a year's subscription for $6/mo, 6 month sub for $9/mo, or pay $12/mo recurring

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This, exactly, would be the best.

I would also like to add, now that I've been thinking about it, maybe on top of this, go into a direction that's similar to certain other MMORPGs are doing until 2.0 comes out (and for this, content being defined as quests/campaigns/dungeons/raids): 1. You can play for free, but you won't be allowed access to any content in FFXIV beyond level 20 nor post-1.19; 2. You can pay a discounted fee each month, but only have access to pre-1.19 content; 3. You can pay full price (that being the bulk-amounts listed in the quote) and get full access to everything that comes out until 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Bahn

Edit: You know what I find funny about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people defending the $12 sub fee, but I've noticed a steady stream of DIFFERENT people chiming in saying that a $5-$7 sub fee would keep them, but nobody is taking them into account.

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You know what's sad about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people trying to talk sense to a steady stream of people whining about how much the game costs and coming up with nonsense excuses for it (the game is half-done, they're going to be changing everything, etc.)

If you enjoy the game enough to pay the subscription fee, then pay it. If you don't, then don't. Nothing should affect your choice for paying a subscription fee other than your enjoyment of the game - if it doesn't live up to your standards for the subscription fee, then you'll just have to wait until it does.

If you care enough that you're willing to incessantly complain on the forums, you should care enough to pay.

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

You know what's sad about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people trying to talk sense to a steady stream of people whining about how much the game costs and coming up with nonsense excuses for it (the game is half-done, they're going to be changing everything, etc.)

If you enjoy the game enough to pay the subscription fee, then pay it. If you don't, then don't. Nothing should affect your choice for paying a subscription fee other than your enjoyment of the game - if it doesn't live up to your standards for the subscription fee, then you'll just have to wait until it does.

If you care enough that you're willing to incessantly complain on the forums, you should care enough to pay.

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Agreed, nothing else more said!

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

You know what's sad about this thread? There are the same 4 or 5 people trying to talk sense to a steady stream of people whining about how much the game costs and coming up with nonsense excuses for it (the game is half-done, they're going to be changing everything, etc.)

If you enjoy the game enough to pay the subscription fee, then pay it. If you don't, then don't. Nothing should affect your choice for paying a subscription fee other than your enjoyment of the game - if it doesn't live up to your standards for the subscription fee, then you'll just have to wait until it does.

If you care enough that you're willing to incessantly complain on the forums, you should care enough to pay.

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It's true if you don't like the current state of the game, you can wait it out, and I'm perfectly prepared to do that.

But having a lucid reason for not liking the game it's not "nonsense" as you put it. It demonstrates there are valid concerns beyond the mere dollars and cents of it.

We're not even expected to pay for a half-finished 2.0. We're expected to pay for the 1.0 version that's so awful that it has to be completely replaced by this brand new version coming out next year, but which we won't really get to experience fully until PS3 players do as well. Somehow full price doesn't seem quite right to me under these circumstances, and even though some people are okay with that, there may be a whole lot more who could live with a lower rate, enough to make SE even more money.

And if money is the goal (and more players are a bonus), then why shouldn't this thought be pursued to its logical conclusion?

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

But having a lucid reason for not liking the game it's not "nonsense" as you put it.

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You can have all the lucid reasons you'd like for not liking the game - if those reasons are so great that they prevent you from wanting to pay the asking price, you must not be enjoying the game all that much. If you're not enjoying the game all that much, don't get all up in arms about not being able to play.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

We're expected to pay for the 1.0 version that's so awful that

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...that you shouldn't be playing it.

Goodbye.

Don't use the excuse that just because something is being completely revamped to make it even better that what we have now is garbage - that's the exact nonsense I'm talking about - it's in my post you you quoted. If you really think the game is "so awful", then leave.

My 2 cents...

Charge what you originally intended SE $10 + $1 per character. The game is good. There are those that were willing to pay for the game and enjoyed the game since it's release. It's a game not for everyone. Nobody is entitled to be specially treated...I'm super sick of this I'm entitled to crap.

It's a privilege to play something someone else created. I have the option to play or not as it is entirely my choice. For a group of people that complained about the game not being worth it and that it's crap etc etc...THEY sure enjoyed the year of playing the game around the clock. There is no need to cave to those types of people. They'll never be happy.

You've done your dues SE and you've continued to work to make the game better. I've seen worse games charge more and done worse by their customers. Continue your work...charge what you believe is fair. Those who see that this game is getting amazing and even more so will be part of it for the long haul.

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Originally Posted by OMEGA_HACK

That was how it was originally. I can't remember the deal but basically if you paid for a full year you got 1 month free from getting the discount.

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I'm sure this option will still be available on the SE management site. Most MMO companies do that. Pay up front for a year, get a discount.

I'm one of those who has said if you like it great then pay and if you don't then gtfo. I'm going to pay whatever they charge.. however... I am starting to see that there are a lot of current players who aren't just trolling or being haters but just honestly want to pay a little less until 2.0 comes out.

I've been a huge supporter of pay to play when it starts but I have to say that even though I love the game now and will love it even more over the next few years up to 2.0 .. I'd be all for a discount, bulk discount that's been discussed. Something cheaper than what they are planning for. Ya know even they said they considered cheaper fees so it's not something that's just about people whining. It's a legitimate concern.

I would rather see people stay and keep a strong player base than watch a mass exodus. The more the merrier. Honestly, I don't see players streaming back after not playing until late 2013. So it's better to keep people around now.

Now those who are just trolling and don't plan on paying period no matter what the cost can just gtfo. Let's compromise. There is nothing wrong with that. I mean the year+ of free play was not our fault and there are major changes coming down the road so compromise and let's all move forward and enjoy the game together.

I'm just saying I understand the argument and it's really hard to just dismiss it.

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Originally Posted by lvicious

I'm one of those who has said if you like it great then pay and if you don't then gtfo. I'm going to pay whatever they charge.. however... I am starting to see that there are a lot of current players who aren't just trolling or being haters but just honestly want to pay a little less until 2.0 comes out.

I've been a huge supporter of pay to play when it starts but I have to say that even though I love the game now and will love it even more over the next few years up to 2.0 .. I'd be all for a discount, bulk discount that's been discussed. Something cheaper than what they are planning for. Ya know even they said they considered cheaper fees so it's not something that's just about people whining. It's a legitimate concern.

I would rather see people stay and keep a strong player base than watch a mass exodus. The more the merrier. Honestly, I don't see players streaming back after not playing until late 2013. So it's better to keep people around now.

Now those who are just trolling and don't plan on paying period no matter what the cost can just gtfo. Let's compromise. There is nothing wrong with that. I mean the year+ of free play was not our fault and there are major changes coming down the road so compromise and let's all move forward and enjoy the game together.

I'm just saying I understand the argument and it's really hard to just dismiss it.

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The year of free play was on condition of getting a road map to getting the game's issues fixed. They have the roadmap now.

That people did not understand the conditions of their free subscription is no excuse.

The problem with a discounted price is that people are going to demand it remain discounted and push back expections of when it shouldn't be discounted, for fear of the "mass exodus".

I think it is hot air. and the complainers would hate 2.0 just as much if it would mean getting it on the cheap.
Yes, people will leave. But they received news of the games road to 2.0. Square held to its end of the bargain.
If they reject that, was SE going to profit from them in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

The year of free play was on condition of getting a road map to getting the game's issues fixed. They have the roadmap now.

That people did not understand the conditions of their free subscription is no excuse.

The problem with a discounted price is that people are going to demand it remain discounted and push back expections of when it shouldn't be discounted, for fear of the "mass exodus".

I think it is hot air. and the complainers would hate 2.0 just as much if it would mean getting it on the cheap.
Yes, people will leave. But they received news of the games road to 2.0. Square held to its end of the bargain.
If they reject that, was SE going to profit from them in the first place?

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You can already see people talking about extending any discount beyond re-release. Dear SE, please cut the cord now.

yeah Kallera I hear ya and you make good points. Just trying to see both sides. Guess we'll see what SE decides but I'm playing anyway so oh well.

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Originally Posted by lvicious

I'm one of those who has said if you like it great then pay and if you don't then gtfo. I'm going to pay whatever they charge.. however... I am starting to see that there are a lot of current players who aren't just trolling or being haters but just honestly want to pay a little less until 2.0 comes out.

I've been a huge supporter of pay to play when it starts but I have to say that even though I love the game now and will love it even more over the next few years up to 2.0 .. I'd be all for a discount, bulk discount that's been discussed. Something cheaper than what they are planning for. Ya know even they said they considered cheaper fees so it's not something that's just about people whining. It's a legitimate concern.

I would rather see people stay and keep a strong player base than watch a mass exodus. The more the merrier. Honestly, I don't see players streaming back after not playing until late 2013. So it's better to keep people around now.

Now those who are just trolling and don't plan on paying period no matter what the cost can just gtfo. Let's compromise. There is nothing wrong with that. I mean the year+ of free play was not our fault and there are major changes coming down the road so compromise and let's all move forward and enjoy the game together.

I'm just saying I understand the argument and it's really hard to just dismiss it.

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If only more of the people who love the game now understood. Im one of the many who enjoy the game, but are not in love with it. Im incredibly excited for 2.0, but knowing we are playing the lesser version and having to pay full price for it just seems off to me. If they give us a discount, id probably pay, i just cant justify paying for a lesser version of a game now, even though the story bits are interesting, its not enough to get me to pay for a full years worth.

Of course this situation has never happened before in MMOs, so its hard to tell how things will play out with the full price, but i have a feeling its not going to be good. A single digit price is much easier to swallow then a double digit price, and thats just how people are, we are fine with spending 5$, but when we see the 10$ we think more, even though its not a big leap. I dont understand it, but i feel that way meself....must be some weird human nature shopping mechanism...

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Originally Posted by lvicious

I'm one of those who has said if you like it great then pay and if you don't then gtfo. I'm going to pay whatever they charge.. however... I am starting to see that there are a lot of current players who aren't just trolling or being haters but just honestly want to pay a little less until 2.0 comes out.

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Everyone wants to pay less for everything.. it's not a good reason to actually charge less for it.

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Originally Posted by lvicious

I'm just saying I understand the argument and it's really hard to just dismiss it.

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No, I think it's pretty easy. If you've been playing the game and have enjoyed it enough that you'd like to continue playing, and on top of that, care enough that you'll complain on the forums trying to get the price dropped for illegitimate reasons, you care enough to pay - whether you say that you'll pay or not. If the game means so much to you that you'll get up in arms over the idea of not being able to play, it's worth your $12.

How many people play over 12 hours a month? I'd say even among the complainers, it's the vast majority. That means you'd be paying under $1 an hour. If the game isn't worth $1 an hour, you shouldn't be playing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeroeffect

It's all really simple... People on here want something for nothing...

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sheep....baaaaaaaah

if u guys enjoy the game so much why are u trolling topics that wont effect u in any other way besides benefiting u. more players and more money in your pocket. no1 is tryin to get anything for nothing. most of us payed for what we getting when we showed how much we wanted to play the game and payed 80 bucks for it. any1 debating the ops point of veiw are sheep. and yes i am trolling cuzz that all any debate bein made in these post are.

i change my vote to i hope SE figures out it still wont make much money and shuts down the game till 2.0 come out so none of u can play. and u have to wait for the product that we want, and have a lil understanind on why we feel this way. to many fanboys with blinded biased opinions wont even consider the others guys point of view.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoned

sheep....baaaaaaaah

if u guys enjoy the game so much why are u trolling topics that wont effect u in any other way besides benefiting u. more players and more money in your pocket. no1 is tryin to get anything for nothing. most of us payed for what we getting when we showed how much we wanted to play the game and payed 80 bucks for it. any1 debating the ops point of veiw are sheep. and yes i am trolling cuzz that all any debate bein made in these post are.

i change my vote to i hope SE figures out it still wont make much money and shuts down the game till 2.0 come out so none of u can play. and u have to wait for the product that we want, and have a lil understanind on why we feel this way. to many fanboys with blinded biased opinions wont even consider the others guys point of view.

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why do you care if anyone else can play when you dont desire to? You arent satisfied with the product, cool you can wait for the product you want. what is the difference if they keep it open or shut it down, for someone who doesnt want to pay till 2.0, its the same thing for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stoned

sheep....baaaaaaaah

if u guys enjoy the game so much why are u trolling topics that wont effect u in any other way besides benefiting u. more players and more money in your pocket. no1 is tryin to get anything for nothing. most of us payed for what we getting when we showed how much we wanted to play the game and payed 80 bucks for it. any1 debating the ops point of veiw are sheep. and yes i am trolling cuzz that all any debate bein made in these post are.

i change my vote to i hope SE figures out it still wont make much money and shuts down the game till 2.0 come out so none of u can play. and u have to wait for the product that we want, and have a lil understanind on why we feel this way. to many fanboys with blinded biased opinions wont even consider the others guys point of view.

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You look and sound like a sheep.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Everyone wants to pay less for everything.. it's not a good reason to actually charge less for it.

No, I think it's pretty easy. If you've been playing the game and have enjoyed it enough that you'd like to continue playing, and on top of that, care enough that you'll complain on the forums trying to get the price dropped for illegitimate reasons, you care enough to pay - whether you say that you'll pay or not. If the game means so much to you that you'll get up in arms over the idea of not being able to play, it's worth your $12.

How many people play over 12 hours a month? I'd say even among the complainers, it's the vast majority. That means you'd be paying under $1 an hour. If the game isn't worth $1 an hour, you shouldn't be playing it.

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This is the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. Or put another way, a False Dilemma.

You're trying to frame this so that there are only two extreme possibilities: Pay full price or leave, without allowing for any reasonable third option.

We're not asking for a lower rate just because we like to save money.

FFXIV probably has almost the same operational costs no matter how many players are playing it. It would be as though you could sell an infinite amount of watermelons, and all you had to do was name your price. Would you rather sell 10,000 watermelons for $13 or 30,000 watermelons for $6?

Businesses do these sorts of calculations all the time. There's a "sweet spot" where the right price can bring in more revenue than just charging as much as you think you can get away with. Given the extraordinary circumstances of this game, this may actually be a valid third option that both casts a wider net and brings in more revenue at the same time.

You could be overlooking a better solution by sticking with your "pay full price or leave" attitude. It makes no sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

This is the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. Or put another way, a False Dilemma.

You're trying to frame this so that there are only two extreme possibilities: Pay full price or leave, without allowing for any reasonable third option.

We're not asking for a lower rate just because we like to save money.

FFXIV probably has almost the same operational costs no matter how many players are playing it. It would be as though you could sell an infinite amount of watermelons, and all you had to do was name your price. Would you rather sell 10,000 watermelons for $13 or 30,000 watermelons for $6?

Businesses do these sorts of calculations all the time. There's a "sweet spot" where the right price can bring in more revenue than just charging as much as you think you can get away with. Given the extraordinary circumstances of this game, this may actually be a valid third option that both casts a wider net and brings in more revenue at the same time.

You could be overlooking a better solution by sticking with your "pay full price or leave" attitude. It makes no sense.

---

But the Question is,

Concerning all the costs of having SE keep up their Servers, pay there GMs, pay their 250 people, NOW currently working on FFXIV in general, Server maintenance (Implementation of patches).

All that nice stuff that SE has to do to keep ALL servers open as well.. do you really HONESTLY think that 5-6 bucks a month with the current fanbase as it is, will cover all of those cost, to either remain even or even make ( somewhat) of a profit?

You have to look at the bigger picture, and be in SE position Right now. When it comes down to crunching the numbers, discounting the game ( with its current fanbase as it is) will only cover (maybe) half the costs.

Edit: Also More money= More Resources= Better Version 2.0

Our money= Investment= Better Version 2.0

Can't their be a Happy Medium?

Or do you want a what you call " an unfinished product" again?

Also, a lot of people want to see the Success of FFXIV correct? ( I don't know why this is even an arguement :/) I understand, the peopel want to get what they are paying for.. I understand that completely.. but if 2.0 doesn't succeed Our 2.0 Dream will be nothing but a dream. We say we want a game that we can all play, that we can all enjoy together as a community. We say that we support FFXIV and Yoshi-P to get the job done.

We say a lot of things, but the question is:

Is this the truth behind the eyes of the players?

Or is this the " Daggers behind a persons smile" trick?

We all got 1 and 1/4th year Free: You may call it a Business Tactic by SE, maybe it is ( and probably is) but could have also shut down the server ( to retain money) and rebuild FFXIV 2.0. That to is also a Business tactic ( and a more money saver going this route and leaving the players who want to play FFXIV in the dust) . They could have easily have done this with a snap of a finger.

They are Dedicated to making this game Superior over any other MMO ( one step at a time though) getting this MMO standing on its 2 feet.

I know I'm doing my part in making the success of this game happen, if it requires my 12.99 ( or a discounted price if they choose to go this route) then that's exactly what i'm going to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

This is the Fallacy of the Excluded Middle. Or put another way, a False Dilemma.

---

You're either trying to shoehorn in debate jargon to distract from your illegitimate argument, or you haven't been paying attention...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

You're trying to frame this so that there are only two extreme possibilities: Pay full price or leave, without allowing for any reasonable third option.

---

...because this isn't what I've been saying. So to make this as clear as possible, I'm going to address your middle ground directly.

Yours is a group that claims $12 a month is too high a price, and that half that would be the difference between you continuing to play, and cancelling your subscription. I accept that this may be the case - nowhere did I ever say that no one can genuinely enjoy the game only enough to pay $5 or $6, but not $12. I am sure those people exist. However, I do not believe that you, or anyone who has posted in this thread, is among them. And the reason for that is simple: you are constantly going on about how much you want to continue playing the game.

Paying half price rather than full means you are enjoying the game half as much as you think you should be for a full subscription fee. And if that were the case, you wouldn't care enough to be arguing about it. If I see a game for $60 that is only worth $30 to me, I don't buy it - but I also don't write the developer about how they should lower the price of their game because I really want to play it, but can't justify the price. If I wanted to play that badly, I'd pay for the damn thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

But the Question is,

Concerning all the costs of having SE keep up their Servers, pay there GMs, pay their 250 people, NOW currently working on FFXIV in general, Server maintenance (Implementation of patches).

All that nice stuff that SE has to do to keep ALL servers open as well.. do you really HONESTLY think that 5-6 bucks a month with the current fanbase as it is, will cover all of those cost, to either remain even or even make ( somewhat) of a profit?

You have to look at the bigger picture, and be in SE position Right now. When it comes down to crunching the numbers, discounting the game ( with its current fanbase as it is) will only cover (maybe) half the costs.

Edit: Also More money= More Resources= Better Version 2.0

Our money= Investment= Better Version 2.0

Can't their be a Happy Medium?

Or do you want a what you call " an unfinished product" again?

Also, a lot of people want to see the Success of FFXIV correct? ( I don't know why this is even an arguement :/) I understand, the peopel want to get what they are paying for.. I understand that completely.. but if 2.0 doesn't succeed Our 2.0 Dream will be nothing but a dream. We say we want a game that we can all play, that we can all enjoy together as a community. We say that we support FFXIV and Yoshi-P to get the job done.

We say a lot of things, but the question is:

Is this the truth behind the eyes of the players?

Or is this the " Daggers behind a persons smile" trick?

We all got 1 and 1/4th year Free: You may call it a Business Tactic by SE, maybe it is ( and probably is) but could have also shut down the server ( to retain money) and rebuild FFXIV 2.0. That to is also a Business tactic ( and a more money saver going this route and leaving the players who want to play FFXIV in the dust) . They could have easily have done this with a snap of a finger.

They are Dedicated to making this game Superior over any other MMO ( one step at a time though) getting this MMO standing on its 2 feet.

I know I'm doing my part in making the success of this game happen, if it requires my 12.99 ( or a discounted price if they choose to go this route) then that's exactly what i'm going to do.

---

did you understand what he said there with the watermelon example? like he said, you mat charge less, but get more people by doing so, which in turn ends up being more money. They need to figure out "do we put it full price now and risk losing a larger amount of people possibly (which can mean future costume loss also) or do we discount to get more people to stay (and possibly keep more future costumers around). Of course the # of people who dont stay due to full price cost is the big mystery....how many people will they really gain? how many can they really lose (in both current and future prospects)

its a risk either way, they just have to decide with the info they have available to them if one way is better then the other.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

You're either trying to shoehorn in debate jargon to distract from your illegitimate argument, or you haven't been paying attention...



...because this isn't what I've been saying. So to make this as clear as possible, I'm going to address your middle ground directly.

Yours is a group that claims $12 a month is too high a price, and that half that would be the difference between you continuing to play, and cancelling your subscription. I accept that this may be the case - nowhere did I ever say that no one can genuinely enjoy the game only enough to pay $5 or $6, but not $12. I am sure those people exist. However, I do not believe that you, or anyone who has posted in this thread, is among them. And the reason for that is simple: you are constantly going on about how much you want to continue playing the game.

Paying half price rather than full means you are enjoying the game half as much as you think you should be for a full subscription fee. And if that were the case, you wouldn't care enough to be arguing about it. If I see a game for $60 that is only worth $30 to me, I don't buy it - but I also don't write the developer about how they should lower the price of their game because I really want to play it, but can't justify the price. If I wanted to play that badly, I'd pay for the damn thing.

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most people dont want to play "that badly". I enjoy the game for sure, but there are still plenty of issues and not as much content as i would like, that paying a full price, knowing full well that we will in 1 year have a DRASTICALLY different game, fixing many of peoples issues.

to a lot of people, its hard to justify paying full price to play the "inferior" version of the game. Plenty of people would rather wait til 2.0, but there are also a good majority that CAN justify paying less, for whats is really a "lesser" version of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Starlord

All that nice stuff that SE has to do to keep ALL servers open as well.. do you really HONESTLY think that 5-6 bucks a month with the current fanbase as it is, will cover all of those cost, to either remain even or even make ( somewhat) of a profit?

---

If you've been paying attention, you'd see what I'm getting at. If SE can get more than twice the players to keep playing by offering a 50% discount, then they end up getting more money. That is, getting more money so they can make 2.0 a success.

Many people aren't completely satisfied with the current product, but a discount could convince quite a number of those people to stay. If it's enough to make SE even more money than if they charged full price, why wouldn't they consider this option?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

did you understand what he said there with the watermelon example? like he said, you mat charge less, but get more people by doing so, which in turn ends up being more money. They need to figure out "do we put it full price now and risk losing a larger amount of people possibly (which can mean future costume loss also) or do we discount to get more people to stay (and possibly keep more future costumers around). Of course the # of people who dont stay due to full price cost is the big mystery....how many people will they really gain? how many can they really lose (in both current and future prospects)

its a risk either way, they just have to decide with the info they have available to them if one way is better then the other.

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Like I said, if they choose that option, i'm not complain less money to pay. However, I think its worth the investment if they charge the full price considering, they need all the resources they can get to make this into a better game.

If they do 6.99 Great

If they do 12.99 Great

Personally, which ever way they choose to do I'm completely fine with. because I know I want to see this game a Success and doing so.. will pay into this " Investment" ( which ever the cost maybe) to give them better Sources to forge this game into something great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

If you've been paying attention, you'd see what I'm getting at. If SE can get more than twice the players to keep playing by offering a 50% discount, then they end up getting more money. That is, getting more money so they can make 2.0 a success.

Many people aren't completely satisfied with the current product, but a discount could convince quite a number of those people to stay. If it's enough to make SE even more money than if they charged full price, why wouldn't they consider this option?

---

With the Current player base, a Discounted price I'm completely unsure of if they will merit a better income then 12.99.. It's a Gambler's chance at that point weather they stick to 12.99 or Discounted.

I'm Neutral, so either way they go about it I'm fine with. If the success of FFXIV means paying 6.99~12.99 then I will do so to get it there.

This " Unfinished product" business is a monkey on peoples backs because of how the game launch.

If the game were to have launched at being at 1.20.

Would you feel its a complete game or rather: " Launch worth of the entitlement to pay 12.99?"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AamesxDavid

Yours is a group that claims $12 a month is too high a price, and that half that would be the difference between you continuing to play, and cancelling your subscription. I accept that this may be the case - nowhere did I ever say that no one can genuinely enjoy the game only enough to pay $5 or $6, but not $12. I am sure those people exist. However, I do not believe that you, or anyone who has posted in this thread, is among them. And the reason for that is simple: you are constantly going on about how much you want to continue playing the game.

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You may enjoy eating at McDonald's once in awhile, but you wouldn't expect to pay fine dining prices to do so.

This isn't a full-fledged MMO operating at competitive standards. That's always been the problem with FFXIV, and it will continue to be in that state until 2.0 is done. I don't have any classes at 50; I can't bring myself to play long enough to do so. I enjoy the game enough to play now and then and see how it's progressing, but I don't feel like my money is well spent paying full price for FFXIV in its current form.

That's simply how I value it, and if there are enough people who feel the same as I do, it would be in everyone's interest to have us stick around. Otherwise, I will sit out until 2.0 draws near. I'm fine with that. But I think there's merit in exploring other options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

You may enjoy eating at McDonald's once in awhile, but you wouldn't expect to pay fine dining prices to do so.

This isn't a full-fledged MMO operating at competitive standards. That's always been the problem with FFXIV, and it will continue to be in that state until 2.0 is done. I don't have any classes at 50; I can't bring myself to play long enough to do so. I enjoy the game enough to play now and then and see how it's progressing, but I don't feel like my money is well spent paying full price for FFXIV in its current form.

That's simply how I value it, and if there are enough people who feel the same as I do, it would be in everyone's interest to have us stick around. Otherwise, I will sit out until 2.0 draws near. I'm fine with that. But I think there's merit in exploring other options.

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this isnt a full ledge mmo is incorrect

this isnt a full fledge veteran mmo is the more appropriate way to state it

also, this game will charge less then most other MMOs out there even at its "full price subscription", FF fans have always had that luxury of not paying 15 a month and instead paying a reduced price


the point is, people will pay for it if they enjoy the game, they arent going to choose mostly based on a price point but rather if they want to play it still or not

the same way gamers have always chosen

You know what I'm gonna do until 2.0 just because there is no point to do otherwise until the game is ready? DoL DoH. I already own animal crossing and theres no monthly payments sooooo...

EDIT: maybe I will feel different come jobs, skill chains, and exp chain revamp.. but.. we havent gotten there yet. I'm starting to think that not only are yoshida and wada not only bad sales-people, but some subleties get lost in translation. maybe the game won't be that bad post 1.20 and even better 1.21.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

most people dont want to play "that badly".

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If they didn't, then they wouldn't be here. The same way I don't post on forums for games I don't feel are worth the money. If the game is only worth half the asking price to you, it shouldn't be worth arguing over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

paying a full price, knowing full well that we will in 1 year have a DRASTICALLY different game, fixing many of peoples issues.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

to a lot of people, its hard to justify paying full price to play the "inferior" version of the game.

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What we'll have in the future has nothing to do with it. By that logic, every patch deserves its own special discount, to make up for you having played the "inferior" version. If you want your argument to be taken seriously, stop with that nonsense. You enjoyment of the current game shouldn't be altered by the fact that it will be better later.