But...I...I don't wanna DPS, I'm a healer...

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

No, no there really isn't, especially if you are a SCH. Eos can solo heal almost anything sub 50 (with 40+ requiring a few heals from you every now and then). Hell, even savage has alot of time for both healers to be in cleric stance.

Ofcourse you are welcome to overheal or sit on your arse doing nothing, but please don't try and pull this 'special snowflake' rubbish. You are not playing as well as you could be, end of.

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+1

Even as a WHM and AST i find myself DPSing more than healing... Healing potency is so OTT in this game that actually needing to spam heal is rare, especially when you couple it with mitigation :p

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Here is the thing. Every cleric stance CD puts you in a vulnerable position. During this time situations can happen that lead to failing your main priority - healing.

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This should only happen if you are unfamiliar/lacking experience with the duty. Obviously, you shouldn't be going into Cleric's Stance when a big, potentially tank destroying attack is coming within a few seconds. It's a matter of knowing or doing it often enough that it becomes muscle memory. But that all takes (a lot) more effort and maybe that is the "scary" aspect about it? :P
But this is a form of effort all jobs have to perform for harder content

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

No, no there really isn't, especially if you are a SCH. Eos can solo heal almost anything sub 50 (with 40+ requiring a few heals from you every now and then). Hell, even savage has alot of time for both healers to be in cleric stance.

Ofcourse you are welcome to overheal or sit on your arse doing nothing, but please don't try and pull this 'special snowflake' rubbish. You are not playing as well as you could be, end of.

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Maybe if you're a scholar yes, but as a whm or ast no. I'm not telling you that you can't dps in SV for instance (because I do) but noone would say a word to you if you didn't. End game is absolutely different in this case and most of the parties require you to contribute and I'm totally okay with that. I'm trying to say that you can do a lot of content without people ranting that you're lazy.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

This should only happen if you are unfamiliar/lacking experience with the duty. Obviously, you shouldn't be going into Cleric's Stance when a big, potentially tank destroying attack is coming within a few seconds. It's a matter of knowing or doing it often enough that it becomes muscle memory. But that all takes (a lot) more effort and maybe that is the "scary" aspect about it? :P
But this is a form of effort all jobs have to perform for harder content

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I just want to second this because it's important.

Lately I've seen CS mentioned by other posters as if it were some sort of roulette that put party members at risk of dying in exchange for increased DPS potential.

As Lyrica suggests, CS is not something that healers spray-and-pray with. It should not leave you vulnerable since you wouldn't have toggled it on (for a whopping 5 seconds at minimum) if life threatening damage had been imminent.

This is not a problem in Japanese servers, but from what I read from these comments is the following:
"I can just do the minimal effort possible, I WANT to look at netflix/FB" or
"It's just a GAME, I can do what I want, it's my money"

So some people truly do this just because they want to be lazy. If this is not toxic behaviour I don't know what is. We all pay for this game, not only you. Please bring your best to dungeons. This kind of behaviour and thinking is a much bigger issue than a healer who doesn't dps because they're not confident, or they're new to the game, or the content simply doesn't allow for dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Iris_BP

Maybe if you're a scholar yes, but as a whm or ast no. I'm not telling you that you can't dps in SV for instance (because I do) but noone would say a word to you if you didn't. End game is absolutely different in this case and most of the parties require you to contribute and I'm totally okay with that. I'm trying to say that you can do a lot of content without people ranting that you're lazy.

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No you're wrong, you can DPS in everything if you want, no matter what healer you play. Every healer i personally know (and most are WHM/AST) DPS in every single piece of content from 1-60 inc. savage, solo healer or 8 man, doesn't matter. There is never enough damage to ensure any healer in any content is forced to only heal because healing is ridiculously OP compared to incoming damage in this game.

Is it harder to DPS as WHM and AST than SCH? Yeah sure, leveling both myself currently i'd agree, but it's still stupidly easy to DPS and do your basic job of keeping everyone alive.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

What do you think about dpsing healer who uses all the skills in cleric stance, but lets dps members die in avoidable aoes? Or about dpsing healer who is dpsing almost full-time but kills the tank and dps players?

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Letting the tank die is a bad idea. Letting a DPS die to unavoidable damage is equally bad. If DPS are repeatedly standing in avoidable AoE's, whether it be to "give the healer something to do" or they're just being lazy and not wanting to interrupt their own DPS, they can suck dirt for all I care. I am not your mother. I am not your babysitter. I do not exist for the sole purpose of cleaning up your messes. The floor candy is not delicious so please don't eat it. I understand that there are times that it's unavoidable due to bad positioning or lag, but when I see people standing in the same floor AoE over and over and over again, I just quit healing them. If my fairy is merciful then they may live, but we all know more often than not she's watching Netflix and spamming Embrace on whoever.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

If my fairy is merciful then they may live, but we all know more often than not she's watching Netflix and spamming Embrace on whoever.

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Haha GG :p

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

The question I have to ask to all the players who defend a "Heal only" position - what rational do you have to only need to heal someone once every 6-8 GCDs? I can understand being new and uncomfortable initially - this makes a lot of sense. But when you're experienced and over geared, why not contribute more? I have yet to see a solid reason to why someone shouldn't DPS when the majority of damage in this game comes from high scripted and predictable patterns.

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They don't have to? Maybe they don't feel comfortable and want to stay focused solely on healing, because they are learning. I'm sure some are lazy, but that's their choice. As long as you're all alive til the end complaining is silly.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

They don't have to? Maybe they don't feel comfortable and want to stay focused solely on healing, because they are learning. I'm sure some are lazy, but that's their choice. As long as you're all alive til the end complaining is silly.

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1. Laziness in a multiplayer game is indefensible.

2. Players who are learning aren't expected to know what to do from Day One and are largely exempt from the current discussion.

Hmm I've always tried to dps even when I was completely new to the game and as early as Copperbell Mines I was doing more dps than healing. I don't get why people see these classes as only healers. I see these classes as support, that means when the party doesn't need healing I'll support you any other way I can. In FF14 the healer classes in this game have little support abilities but they hit like trucks compared to most mmos, and thats where the majority of their support should come from when the party is not in need of healing. I mean sure I can understand only healing in harder stuff like extreme primals, but they give you another healer making healing too easy once again. Most of the time you're just over healing :/

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Originally Posted by MentheusDreyar

No you're wrong, you can DPS in everything if you want

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You are not hearing me. Where did I say you can't dps in every dungeon? I just said that there are leveling dungeons where people won't say a word to you for not doing anything but healing. Hell, I level ninja and 95% of healers are only healing and Noone gives a damn about it, definitely not to the point of telling them in chat. Because if you're undergeared healer or you're with undergeared tank it's not easy to consistently dps. Of course you can throw in some dots and occasional rock but that's it. And many people while leveling just don't care enough.
I'm not defending lazy healers, um just saying Thayet many things depend on a situation. If you're struggling with just healing then you better not dps until you feel like you can, that's common sense.

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Originally Posted by Tint

because i hate it D: especially the stance dance... so rational it's either stop playing as a healer - wich means for me stop playing FF14 at all because i hate the battle system except healing - or just heal.

okay, in real i am in fact doing DPS, but i don't want it. but even if i don't use any HoTs there is simply nothing to heal. and yeah, i'm not staying there around doing nothing for like 10 seconds. but i hate it : / i want something i can heal, not dps o.o/

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

Rational? I don't know if that's rational, but I started playing a healer to heal. I'm ok with doing DPS, but NOT ok with people expecting it from you like it's some type of rule on the game's ToS.

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Then unfortunately, from a healer standpoint, this game isn't for you. The healer meta is more than a "Heal only" meta because of the way S-E has designed the game.

• The game has high potency outgoing healing and low yield incoming damage. It's very easy for heals to outpace the oncoming damage and require minimal healing in sporadic intervals.
• Healers have an ability that gives them an magic attack stat comparable to their DPS brethren. While their DPS skills aren't on the same level as a real DPS, they can still offload very potent numbers when played properly.

With the way S-E has designed this game, once you acquire a certain skill and gear level, there is little else to do as a healer but to make use of the rest of your toolkit - AKA, their DPS abilities. But choosing to ignore this aspect of your kit in a situation where you can make complete use of it, you're indirectly hampering the performance of the party.

The mark of a good healer is adaptability. Any healer worth their salt knows how to adapt to a situation regardless of the game they play. When I played WoW in the Burning Crusade era, there was little time to do anything BUT heal in raids because if the tank wasn't fully topped, a random crit spike can potentially one shot your tank. They designed their game where you NEEDED three healers healing your solo tank to prevent a wipe. That's a meta more suitable to these kind of comments.

In the FFXIV healing meta, there are lots of instances of downtime for a healer once they and their party are sufficiently geared and at these junctures they should be making use of their DPS skills to accelerate the pace of the activity.

As I've stated in the comment that was replied to - there is little reason to not make use of the rest of your toolkit unless you choose not to. Again, I reiterate - I understand that comfort level is a factor and any new healer to an instance should take time to gain that familiarity and gauge their party. Once they've hit beyond that?

...well, again, I will also reiterate I have yet to hear of a good reason to not DPS. "I don't want to" is a comment made by an unadaptable player which in my mind is something I personally frown upon but won't really openly begrudge either as long as the party is flowing forward at a good pace.

With that being said - Adapt to the meta you're given or fall into obscurity. That is your decision to make.

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Originally Posted by RaizeGraymalkin

They don't have to? Maybe they don't feel comfortable and want to stay focused solely on healing, because they are learning. I'm sure some are lazy, but that's their choice. As long as you're all alive til the end complaining is silly.

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I've already stated in my original comment about comfort level. Just to restate that since it was clearly missed.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

I can understand being new and uncomfortable initially - this makes a lot of sense.

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So, please enlighten me - what good reason does anyone have to not DPS as a healer when they're over geared for the situation? There has yet to be any reason outside of "I don't feel like it" or "I'm lazy" and there have been many points to the "I'm Lazy" discussion already.

Also, I'm not really complaining about the whole thing. As I mentioned earlier in this post, if you don't want to DPS and you're in my party, I'll just shrug it off and keep going. I'm just curious to hear what rational a "Heal only" healer has outside of "I don't want to" or "I'm lazy". Both are those indicate inflexibility and no desire to become a better player. Players advocating DPS advocate that because they want to see the player base grow in skill. Admittedly, some these "advocates" are too petty and aggressive about it (but that argument can be made on the "Nope, not gonna DPS" camp too).

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Originally Posted by Iris_BP

Because if you're undergeared healer or you're with undergeared tank it's not easy to consistently dps. Of course you can throw in some dots and occasional rock but that's it. And many people while leveling just don't care enough.
I'm not defending lazy healers, um just saying Thayet many things depend on a situation. If you're struggling with just healing then you better not dps until you feel like you can, that's common sense.

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No i hear you, and i agree there are situations where you can't and if you're struggling to heal then don't DPS due to whatever reason. But these situations are few and far inbetween. I myself have never encountered one, hell the first thing i do when entering new content as my healers in see how much DPS i can output, with HoT and mitigation is easy as hell to ignore healing until last minute, as you'll unlikely need your emergency heal again before it's off CD. I pretty much use them every pull, no use saving them only to never use them :p

But i started out DPSing as early as Halatali, healer undergeared, tank undergeared doesn't really matter except in mass pulls. DPSing while healing is still very easy in those situations, heck i've been doing it all day so i know what i'm talking about :p

And if they are mass pulling while undergeared they will more than likely die before you run out of MP. So either way it's a non issue.

"Adapt to the meta you're given or fall into obscurity"

Yup, continue focusing yourself on metagaming and theory while players give up on the game. Nice, rational choice! Plus, who's going to put me into obscurity? DF players who can't even dodge AoEs right? Oh, I see, that's dangerous. But if you're talking about content where meta game really matters, I really don't care, hardcore is far beyond my line of interest. And it seems it was too for the poor player who got scared by all these people who care more for numbers than for the players confort.

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Originally Posted by Fevelle

"Adapt to the meta you're given or fall into obscurity"

Yup, continue focusing yourself on metagaming and theory while players give up on the game. Nice, rational choice! Plus, who's going to put me into obscurity? DF players who can't even dodge AoEs right? Oh, I see, that's dangerous. But if you're talking about content where meta game really matters, I really don't care, hardcore is far beyond my line of interest. And it seems it was too for the poor player who got scared by all these people who care more for numbers than for the players confort.

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If you're looking for a game with raw and unadulterated necessity of raw HPS, this is unfortunately not the game for that. That's the simple truth of the matter.

As much as I want to encourage the growth of the game, I also don't want people playing something they personally don't enjoy because of the very fact they don't enjoy it. There are other healing metas that are suited for that and perhaps other games that are more suitable.

Will that make our population worse? Definitely. But each individual should try to find a past time that suits them just fine and there will be players that you just can't cater too because of the way the game is designed. That's the unfortunate circumstance of FFXIV Healing and while I absolutely love the choice of being able to mend or maim, I know others do not.

And no, I think the OP left the game because he sampled it, tried to see if he could enjoy it, felt he couldn't and moved on. There's nothing more to it. It's sad to see a player go but I wish him well in his future endeavors in gaming. I don't get the impression he was scared of the people, just didn't enjoy how the healing in this game works. I felt he got the information he required to make an informed and right decision. He wasn't looking for comfort - he was looking for information and made his choice based on that.

Could some posters have been more tactful? Oh yes, that's certainly the case in any of these discussions on both sides of the thread. But that's an unfortunate side effect of posters not filtering for tact on an anonymous message board.

As I said before the op didn't really care and had given up from post number 1 if you had actually followed this thread fully, it's painfully obvious. But keep believing your little fairy tale you have made about it in order to demonize everyone who doesn't agree with you Fevelle.

It gets rather tiring seeing the same old strawman arguments that have long since been burned to ashes.

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Originally Posted by LuminaLumi

This is not a problem in Japanese servers, but from what I read from these comments is the following:
"I can just do the minimal effort possible, I WANT to look at netflix/FB" or
"It's just a GAME, I can do what I want, it's my money"

So some people truly do this just because they want to be lazy. If this is not toxic behaviour I don't know what is.

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the fun thing is, these are actually arguments from the "i'm a dps class, stop telling me my class symbol is green" fraction to ridicule the other two factions. no, neither are they uses by the "heals should only heal" nor the "i dps b/c i want to fasten the run a bit" faction.

what i find most amusing is, when i was farming my zodiac items as whm (was tired of tanking halatali run after run) i realized that dpsing as whm is actually the real lazy method. you redecue your class from a big mash of different skills to just 2-3 at all depending on boss or trash. on trash you just spam holy and throw bene/cure II; on bosses you just throw stone II until tank has around 10% and then some cure II til he's topped again and maybe a regen after that. repeat until dungeon done. yay. i didnt really paid attention to the dungeon. i was actually doing smth else entirely. that's funny, because i was able to read a manga. and it was easier doing this during a dungeon run as whm than it ever was as a tank (and you dont even have to look constantly at your screen if you're playing tank at all)

10/10 would never heal any dungeon again. most boring thing ever done. i prefer running mindless circles around limsa aetheryte though

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Originally Posted by Eii

you redecue your class from a big mash of different skills to just 2-3 at all depending on boss or trash

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You do realise that if you're just healing, you're reducing your job to a single button, two at most, right?

Or in case of scholars in low level dungeons - Which I've actually witnessed before - /follow the tank and hit a button every 10 minutes not to get auto-kicked.

hm, well, if you play around with those awesome(ly useless) healing tools you could at least pretend you*re doing smth once in a while.

but yeah, srsly, all in all, playing healer either way is damn boring. and keep in mind that i main a class where "just stand there while mostly doing nothing" is actually the only thing possible because all the battles so hard scripted, you can tank them in controller mode (or playing on a console) without being in the same room or sometimes ppl wont notice if you fall asleep as a tank (they somehow noticed in t11 though, fun times, didnt die, no wipe, but a bit of surprise in their voice xD)
for what i've seen (and experienced), at least as sch, its just the same. only difference is where you stand during the fight/sleep x)

if you ever wondered why ppl say this game bores them. well, now you know...

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Originally Posted by Eii

hm, well, if you play around with those awesome(ly useless) healing tools you could at least pretend you*re doing smth once in a while.

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And exactly why doesn't this apply to healers who does both healing and DPSing?

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Originally Posted by Eii

you redecue your class from a big mash of different skills to just 2-3 at all depending on boss or trash. on trash you just spam holy and throw bene/cure II; on bosses you just throw stone II until tank has around 10% and then some cure II til he's topped again and maybe a regen after that.

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IMO it actually expanding the numbers of skills you use. Here is why:
- DS to regen the tank better so i can dps longer
- PoM so i can increase my dps
- Swiftcast + holy/aero III
- benediction/tetra (the lower the tank hp goes the longer i can stay in dps mode)
- Shroud to recover mana (why still doing dps)
- Assize
And all of those spells/abilities I would never (need to) touch them if I'm healing only, really there is no need to use them, just spam cure I/II or medica II.

uhm, yeah if xou really want to find excuses for using certain skills, yes, you can push them all if you want.

thing is, the better the group, and the higher the overall dps of that group, the less need for all that extra stuff. well, if its an over the top group, you wont find yourself casting a single heal once.
there's a nice trick with holy though. just wait a second before casting the next one. you'll lose some dps. but as a trade you keep trash stunlocked. which on the other side means, no dmg on tank. which means: if dps are high, a smn in group with his handy shadowflare and the tank knows his stuff, yeah, you wont need to heal anything except maybe tankbusters or maybe some crits on your tank.
cool hu?

i'll repeat myself: this game isn't designed for this trinity setup. and i'm not sure if it ever will be.

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Originally Posted by Eii

there's a nice trick with holy though. just wait a second before casting the next one. you'll lose some dps. but as a trade you keep trash stunlocked.

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This is why you fill the space between your first and second Holy with Aero III....

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Originally Posted by Eii

hm, well, if you play around with those awesome(ly useless) healing tools you could at least pretend you*re doing smth once in a while.

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It's far preferable that your healer make your admittedly easy and repetitive dungeon run go faster by actually doing something. Standing around pretending to be useful by overhealing or by spamming unnecessary Stoneskins is doing no one any favors.

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Originally Posted by Normalizer

IMO it actually expanding the numbers of skills you use. Here is why:
(the lower the tank hp goes the longer i can stay in dps mode)

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My mind is completely unable to adapt/accept this seemingly widespread mentality with other healers. If tank drops to or below 50%, to hell with my DPS. >_>

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Originally Posted by Twilite

My mind is completely unable to adapt/accept this seemingly widespread mentality with other healers. If tank drops to or below 50%, to hell with my DPS. >_>

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If you take in the context of the post, it makes sense.

Tank HP % starts to become a concern as soon as their current HP value can possibly be exceeded by the immediate incoming damage value. As long as a healer remains aware of this and maintains their tank appropriately to keep them out of danger, there is no problem, especially not in this game, where outgoing heal values are so high that it takes only a moment to patch someone from well below 50% to 100% and with a shield and/or a still-ticking HoT on top of it.

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Originally Posted by Twilite

My mind is completely unable to adapt/accept this seemingly widespread mentality with other healers. If tank drops to or below 50%, to hell with my DPS. >_>

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I put that comment near the Benediction and Tetra. If I have benediction, tank can go till 10%, i'm holying :P Tetra, may be 40-50% then, if i don't have both then i would start healing him at about 50%. It's all about CDs management and use your resource wisely :)

well if its a warrior, let him drop to 10%, throw bene, drop him to 10% again, he throws equilibrium and IB and maybe a cd or smth. if equi crits he should be on 70% now, if not, hes on 50. now either let him use second wind (if he doenst have it then 2nd IB) + thrill and hes on 100- 110%; or throw tetra, depending on if you prefer leaving cs or not.
if its a pally. well, pallys shouldnt drop below 50 ever. thats what cds are for. also, hail clemency.
and drk. dunno. somewhere inbetween i think?

all in all: tank hp are a ressource like your piety. if you'll never use them, they're wasted. so dont complain when tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str x)

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Originally Posted by Eii

all in all: tank hp are a ressource like your piety. if you'll never use them, they're wasted. so dont complain when tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str x)

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What makes you think they already aren't?

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...eta-feels-off-
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...s-are-an-issue.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nking-again%21
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...?highlight=str
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...?highlight=str

HP aside, complete vit specced and geared tanks will have trouble keeping hate off against DPS jobs who are pushing their limits.

PLD Clemency is so meh, there is nothing to hail about. Takes too long to cast (3s), costs a lot of MP and likely to get healed before done casting. Sure if there is downtime, but I rather be using hitting Royal Authority to do damage and keep hate. Better yet, be a pro PLD tank puller. Make the biggest pull early, plan to use Hallowed Ground as soon as you can to allow the healer to stay in-stance and get max dps, plus they can prepare whatever healing cooldown to use once it expires. Cooldowns will be back up later, and can even use again or 3x in some settings.

so, you're saying pld cant heal themself besides bloodbath (which is actually meh without overpower/decimate)? but pallys are kinda invincible now. dunno if i should feel bad for them or be relieved. but they definitly dont get enough love these days. which is definitly sad.

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Originally Posted by technole

Make the biggest pull early

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yeah i dont talk about small pulls. ever. its like fairysitters on auto-follow. it happens, but we sure dont accept them as our normal behaviour. that would be sad on its own.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

What makes you think they already aren't?

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what makes you think i ever may have thought that? (except pre 2.2. we had hopes and dreams back then. yeah RIP tankstats. and for the love of the twelve pls SE stop putting parry on our gear. give us something less useless. like spellspeed or piety, instead ;_; )

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Originally Posted by Eii

what makes you think i ever may have thought that?)

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I'll just leave this here

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Originally Posted by Eii

all in all: tank hp are a ressource like your piety. if you'll never use them, they're wasted. so dont complain when tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str x)

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it was .. well. dunno. an overcomplicated written sentence? i dont think i could tell you right now how that was meant wihtout making it more confusing.
lets try this: it didnt meant to say "well, from tomorrow on..." and more like "if you just ignore this game allready existed long enough and ppl allready played it, and just look at all the things possible and not possible, and just ignore that anyone ever played this game, this is how it would be played if it actually were played"

more confused? i sure am. also, there actually exists a word for this kind of message. i just forgot it. but it was definitly related to rhetoric assumptions. language barrier doesnt help either i guess.


i'm tired now, head spinning, i'm going to sleep now, good night ^^/

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Originally Posted by Eii

it was .. well. dunno. an overcomplicated written sentence? i dont think i could tell you right now how that was meant wihtout making it more confusing.
lets try this: it didnt meant to say "well, from tomorrow on..." and more like "if you just ignore this game allready existed long enough and ppl allready played it, and just look at all the things possible and not possible, and just ignore that anyone ever played this game, this is how it would be played if it actually were played"

more confused? i sure am. also, there actually exists a word for this kind of message. i just forgot it. but it was definitly related to rhetoric assumptions. language barrier doesnt help either i guess.


i'm tired now, head spinning, i'm going to sleep now, good night ^^/

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As a Scholar, I am ashamed because I can't make any sense out of this post. xD

Sleep well o/

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Originally Posted by Eii

Snip

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I doubt complication was really an issue here. That particular sentence mentioned:

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Originally Posted by Eii

all in all: tank hp are a ressource like your piety. if you'll never use them, they're wasted. so dont complain when tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str x)

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I'll break it down into:
HP is considered a resource
resources not use is a waste/excess
don't complain when tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str

The bolded text indicates it's not happening yet:
If "we aren't complaining now", it's because it hasn't happened yet. What hasn't happened yet in that sentence? Tanks start to lose some hp in favor for str.

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Originally Posted by Eii

what makes you think i ever may have thought that?

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Your previous post(s) makes me exactly comprehend that you thought exactly that.

So, I started a couple weeks back. NIN to 50/51 ( to unlock HW ) and get AST. I knew I wanted to heal since the beginning, but I saw the deck mechanic for AST and decided -that- would be my healing class. After reading all 28 pages of this, I'm kind of disappointed. I don't mind DPSing - in fact, I thought that was one of the coolest things ever when I saw CS for the first time ( CNJ to get Protect, woo CS! ) so, yeah, super excited about being able to DPS.

The way everyone talks, it seems more like healers are a necessity, but only grudgingly so. To read what some of the other players have put, they spend upwards of 70% of their time doing DPS.

I liked healing in other games because it gave me this sense of urgency and need, but it seems that this game doesn't really have that? Which is fine, it just makes me think I should go SMN or another DPS class. Maybe Bard - or stick with Nin.

Is the end game really only about having an extra DPS who occasionally keeps people alive?

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

So, I started a couple weeks back. NIN to 50/51 ( to unlock HW ) and get AST. I knew I wanted to heal since the beginning, but I saw the deck mechanic for AST and decided -that- would be my healing class. After reading all 28 pages of this, I'm kind of disappointed. I don't mind DPSing - in fact, I thought that was one of the coolest things ever when I saw CS for the first time ( CNJ to get Protect, woo CS! ) so, yeah, super excited about being able to DPS.

The way everyone talks, it seems more like healers are a necessity, but only grudgingly so. To read what some of the other players have put, they spend upwards of 70% of their time doing DPS.


I liked healing in other games because it gave me this sense of urgency and need, but it seems that this game doesn't really have that? Which is fine, it just makes me think I should go SMN or another DPS class. Maybe Bard - or stick with Nin.

Is the end game really only about having an extra DPS who occasionally keeps people alive?

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Most mmos place the highest value in dps. It's why you always see content getting solo healed and tanked asap. The quicker things die the quicker you get on that gear grind. And sadly that grind is what we have been conditioned to do.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

Is the end game really only about having an extra DPS who occasionally keeps people alive?

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It depends on who you're asking. If a player used to farming A4S and are decked out in close to i210 gear, and an entire light party with people in that same level of gear and playstyle; their tank will probably not be dying to anything in Fractal (because the supercharged dps is killing everything the moment it spawns). So, everyone will be spending more time dpsing than healing/tanking in those kinds of games. If a team in slightly less stellar Yasha gear runs Fractal, they may spend more time on mechanics and their party role.

CS is great and it adds a lot of depth to the healer meta. It's just that certain players get hung up that the way pros play on stream as the way everyone should play it. Keep in mind, these are the same players who let the tank drop to 1HP (or as low as it can) before healing back up. Some do it because they can get away with it and it maximizes dps, but a good portion of it is also showboating. People like to watch people skirt that edge between disaster and victory.

BTW, this is a bit of amusing trivia about not needing healers. Nobody can do a dungeon past level 32 without a full dedicated healer role. Prior to that, you can get away with an arcanist as a healer if you really want to. If anything, healers and tanks become more necessary as you level. The problem happens when you do it unsynced or with higher level items than intended (which is what happens at endgame). Once everyone is overgeared, party roles break down. Just look at the Warriors who solo Titan EX or the Scholars who solo HM dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

The way everyone talks, it seems more like healers are a necessity, but only grudgingly so. To read what some of the other players have put, they spend upwards of 70% of their time doing DPS.

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You may have missed a few things:
No one explicitly implied that DPS is a must. The whole "to-dps-or-not-to" debate is pretty much split into two primary groups:
One being that DPSing is not a must, but a thing to strife for if you're aiming for higher level player. Or in simpler words: It's "recommended"
The other group.. well, in shorter words: They almost act it's like a heresy to deal damage as a healer.

But considering you're playing astrologian, you're in luck. With the more popular meta for endgame, the astrologian are more often in the main healer seat than not. Meaning they spend far more time healing than DPSing. But that also means that the larger share of healing is yours to deal with. This is under assumption you're paired with a Scholar - Which is arguably mandatory for endgame.

If you're not into endgame... Well, 90% of the player base doesn't really give a damn. If you happen to encounter the 10% that's complaining that you're only healing, pay them no heed. Getting kicked for only healing is no valid reason to get voted out of a duty. If this does happen, I recommend to report them. Alternatively, you can snarl back at them and question whether they are doing 100% of their own capacity. Otherwise it's pure hypocrisy.

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Originally Posted by Venjamin

The way everyone talks, it seems more like healers are a necessity, but only grudgingly so. To read what some of the other players have put, they spend upwards of 70% of their time doing DPS.

I liked healing in other games because it gave me this sense of urgency and need, but it seems that this game doesn't really have that? Which is fine, it just makes me think I should go SMN or another DPS class. Maybe Bard - or stick with Nin.

Is the end game really only about having an extra DPS who occasionally keeps people alive?

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WHM or AST taking the main healer role normally handles the bulk of the healing. Assuming the off-healer role, you're most likely going to be the SCH DPSing most of the time with well-timed shields and pet abilities to help your main healer. If you really want to heal for the majority of end-game fights, go WHM or AST (to take the main healer position).