Hair contest: petitioning

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

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No one has called the hairstyles scraps that I've seen. The only person to use the word at all was me, and it was not referring to the hairstyles if you had taken the time to read a little more carefully.

It was referring to the idea the poster before me had, saying we should just accept whatever SE does and that we're basically lucky to get anything, and saying we're ignored because we don't:

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

Threads like these are why we ignored most of the time and others get more attention.

Cause nobody can be happy on what they get. Instead lets light the torches and grab pitch forks and charge, I say let it be accept it.

Then maybe we would be accepted more with open arms instead of ignored.

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As for 1.0 comment, the same concept applies. It's a different scale than the hairstyles, but the concept applies.

And I don't think it's entitled for paying customers to complain about things relevant to the product (the game) when we feel we have legitimate reason to. Again, the word is misused. We are being sold a service/product, the company's goal is to keep us buying into it, it's mutually beneficial for us to share our grievances, and it's definitely not "entitled".

As paying customers, we do not have to and should not have to be expected to sit back and be thankful for any and every little thing we get in addition to not being allowed to voice our grievances without being considered "entitled".

We have three options when we have a grievance:

1. Voice it and hope you will be heard.
2. Take your money elsewhere.
3. Not say anything even when you feel improvement is possible, and contribute to a lack of anything being done about it.

Personally, I feel this could have been done better, but will not leave the game over it. But since I feel it could have been done better, and I'm not the type to sit down and be quiet when I feel it could have been done better because I like the game and think it could be even better, and want to contribute my opinion on how it could be better rather than sit idle and go where the wind blows, that leaves option 1 for me. That is not an entitled attitude by any means. Criticism is integral to progress.

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Originally Posted by Adire

As for 1.0 comment, the same concept applies. It's a different scale than the hairstyles, but the concept applies.

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Ayup.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

So I guess we should have just blindly accepted FFXIV 1.0, hm? I know, that and this are completely different, but criticism does help others to improve in future endeavours.

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I'm just hoping that if SE were to do this kind of contest again, they split hairstyles into three categories for the two genders for people to vote for (short, medium and long) and then have people vote on one of the top three (one of each from short, medium and long). Maybe even be a little stricter on rules, by requiring artists to only use the templates they provide (as I mentioned in that same quote, I feel some people are voting by how nice the art looks, rather than the hairstyle alone).

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Originally Posted by Glasya

Strawman, ad hominem, unwarranted assumptions, appeal to motive, and wow, even a "starving children in Africa" relative privation fallacy with that 1.0 comparison.

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Strawman:

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

This would be a petition stating the general upset at the lack of representation of what we, as a community, wanted in style choices.

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It was his own words. If you are talking about my second paragraph, i specifically wrote "to those saying". Read.

Ad Hominem: I didn't attack him as a person, I attacked his actions; which directly relate to his own argument. It doesn't make sense to submit your own submission into the contest, but then not end up as a finalist, but then complain about how everyone elses designs dont suit what the "community" wants. Also, i just simply stated his design did not suit my taste either. I was rather harsh with it, yes.

Unwarranted Assumptions: What was being assumed? The final line of my post? Yes that was an assumption. But can you blame me? If his entry got in the finalist (and even won maybe) would he be posting this? Ask yourself that.

Appeal to Motive: Of course? Of course I question the entirety of this thread and the OPs motive of it. It doesnt make sense, and is very hypocritical.

Comparative: Yes, It was a rather big comparison to make. But the fact that this is being blown up to this extent, I felt like it was needed, just to remind people of the fact that it is just hairstyles, and we are lucky enough to have this contest in the first place. People just need to appreciate things more. And not once did I mention any starving kids in Africa. So just call it Relative Privation Fallacy if you must.

What did you do? Did you just throw out as much English terminology as you can to make yourself sound cool or something? The picture also isn't helping.

A. The argument is that the finalists aren't sufficiently varied, which is to the detriment of community agency when collaborating to decide a design for inclusion to the game. You've exaggerated in saying a design submitted by the OP is unlikely to please everyone, when no one design is ever going to please the community at-large. It is not, and has never been about pleasing everyone and the limit of 2 winners is a testament to that fact; it's about giving everyone equal opportunity to submit or vote for the sort of designs they like. If the finalists are all similar, and you don't like any of the finalist designs, then you aren't being properly represented.

B. You referred to people complaining about finalist homogeneity as "entitled", with pejorative intonation. "Entitled" is the mating-call of the consumer sheep.

C & D. This has been refuted several times over. Just fuck off; even were it true you have no basis for proving it.


E. The fact the game failed doesn't matter now that it's printing money. With success the onus is now on SE to reorganise their priorities; do not diminish the import of delivering a quality service if you wish to continue doing business.

F. No, but since you're replying 4 hours late I'm guessing you had to reference definitions for them and have been fuming over how to dissect and respond to each one. Butthurt much?

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

The picture also isn't helping.

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Just posting at the same level of quality as you, my friend.

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Originally Posted by Glasya

Just posting at the same level of quality as you, my friend.

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I don't know, I'm with... yuixjfa (?) with this. I said my peace with, "You can't please everyone all the time, so it's better not to try." This contest wasn't about trying to please everyone, it was about letting the community submit and choose an upcoming hairstyle with a prize for the player that made the winning hairstyle. But instead of congratulating the finalists for making it to the finalist stage, the original post decries them for not being 'what the community wants', nevermind that other players made the finalist styles and that they were picked from what had to be thousands of entries with an untold amount of similarity (not as unlikely as you might think). This is the hang up the 'naysayers' against the original post are having. The very apparent level of ingratitude at Square, even though they didn't even have to host this contest to begin with.

Maybe my opinion may be different from others, but... I'm fine that my entry didn't get picked: there are so many (both in the finalists and the 'lets post ours' thread) beautiful entries that I think are way better/talented than mine. So, I congratulate the finalists, and I thank all who looked at and "liked" my entry in the 'lets post ours' thread. Also, I have voted for the finalists that I like, and am looking forward to seeing the new hairstyles (whichever they may be) in game. And, I also hope SE makes more of these contests in the future.

Also, sorry OP, but I don't feel right signing your "petition."

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

What did you do? Did you just throw out as much English terminology as you can to make yourself sound cool or something? The picture also isn't helping.

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そういうことじゃなくて。。。典型的なクソ「指示厨」のたわごと話だけじゃん。 心配ない。 (please forgive me for my very bad Japanese. lol) -- (nnn...right... tn b'cuz it is soo bad: "That's not really it... That's just typical fucking "telling-off-like-middle-schooler-esque" shit talk. Don't worry.")

Anyways, I think it's more like some kind of debate tool that white knights, SJWs, Fedora-wearing internet heroes, and malnourished 400lb foreveralone neckbeards use to dismantle an argument they don't personally agree with. It's like, "Since I can't win with a well-constructed argument, I'll win by just throwing some fallacy terms at it to make it sound wrong/false, while simultaneously implying/making myself look like an authority on internet debates - even though I'm not qualified. Yay!...I'm such an internet tough guy!"

If that doesn't work, or is met with a counter, then it will usually devolve into a "...sheep," or "he mad" shit post, or a "stop liking what I don't like" whine. When these kind of posts appear, I just ignore them. They are irksome and tiresome. They're not qualified to speak against anything, and they're not saying anything either. They are simply shit posts. They're just trying to look important. I think the term "narcissist" comes to mind.

Also, this post...

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Originally Posted by Glasya

Strawman, ad hominem, blah blah blah...

https://a.thumbs.redditmedia.com/na2mA2KHgt2z0mUl.png

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...is what irony looks like.

A real debater would not verbalize the fallacies. Instead s/he would simply identify them, and use that to construct a usable counter argument -- kinda like playing chess, and drawing the other party into a checkmate.

And... Admittedly, I looked it up - just to be sure it was okay to use the term, "internet hero," but the proof is in the pudding. lol :D

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Originally Posted by Glasya

"Entitled" is the mating-call of the consumer sheep.

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"Sheep" confirmed. Hahahaha. Too funny. That made my day. Thank you. lol :D


And, yes I know, the internet tough guys would call the above an "Ad Hominem" fallacy. But, it's just an opinion and view that I'm expressing, and I have every right to express it. :P Teehee


But really though, all joking aside, those shit posts really are irksome and tiresome.

And, that...*sigh* was the last fuck I was holding onto, and ...
http://www.funniestmemes.com/wp-cont...give_1300.jpeg
Goodbye little "last fuck" birdie.

I'm done.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

What makes me the most angry is that they are only doing two of each gender.. and I'm not even sure I'll wear one of them. I want the top FIVE not just two.. two isn't going to represent a broad range of people. :/

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Nope, there are not "two of each gender" winning. It's "the two most-voted-on hairstyles", meaning ONE from each gender. With the five runner-ups from each gender category winning just the barding. (Two First Prizes and ten Runner-up Prizes, as listed in the Lodestone post.)

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

Let's say your entry got in the final selections and won. Are you saying that your hairstyle you entered was exactly what everyone in this community wanted? That is it perfect? No. No it fucking isnt. And yes, i saw your entry myself. And no, it wasn't the kind of hairstyle i would want to win. So that there is already ironic with the fact that it was something YOU entered in the competition. [...] From what it seems like, the only reason this thread is up, is to bitch about the fact your entry didnt make it.

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Several of us who agree don't have a stake in "winning" or even making it to the finalists, because we either didn't enter the contest or weren't allowed to enter based on where we live.

And it's not really a matter of jealousy at all.

Let's say 100 female entries were sent in. There were 10 side-pony tails, 10 pigtails/two-tails, 10 pony-tails/one-tails, 10 short-and-spiky, 10 long-and-straight, 10 long-and-curly, 10 elaborate-updos, 10 no-bangs (of various varieties), 10 'masculine cuts' and 10 braid-based.

Would you be happier if they let the community vote on one from each 'style category', or three each from the first three categories and one from the fourth, ignoring all the other styles? Because to me (and several others), the latter is what it seems happened here. =/

Glasya, while I appreciate your educated defense, would you mind refraining from using harsh statements, such as "fuck off"? I know things get heated, and repeating ourselves to those unwilling to listen is aggravating, but we can do our part to keep things civil.

Yuixjfa: If you are going to quote me, please don't misquote me and focus on only the part that seem to fit your argument. If you would please direct your attention to my opening statement, where I said I was making an appeal (or rather trying to garner interest) from those of likeminded status. This means that my audience for my opening post was directed AT those who agree with me. Quoting me they way you did not only makes it seem like I am saying everyone agrees with me (which I most certainly deliberated that I was NOT doing, further down the first post, for your future reference) but it makes it seem like you didn't bother to read my sentiment at all. You are seeing what you want to see and making huge assumptions. Yes, I entered the contest. No, I didn't win. Why does that matter? Can anyone actually tell me WHY this matters? I've asked this many times, because many people seem to think it does. And yet.... I can't seem to get a reason. Regardless, there are many people out there who did not enter the contest, for a multitude of reasons, who agree with the idea of the thread. Could be they didn't want to. Would you then argue that since they didn't submit, they don't have the right to be upset? Or maybe they couldn't enter for legal reasons. Is it their fault for living in an area that the contest didn't support, therefore they don't have the right to be upset? I am honestly curious.

And you know, I knew that my hairstyle wasn't "exactly what everyone in this community wanted" and that it wasn't perfect "No. No it fucking isn't." So glad you decided to bash my entry personally to further your argument that your moral high road is the better of high roads.

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

No, I didn't win. Why does that matter? Can anyone actually tell me WHY this matters? I've asked this many times, because many people seem to think it does. And yet.... I can't seem to get a reason.

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Because people (in general) tend to assume jealousy as the base emotion whenever someone is unhappy with something that isn't theirs. "If I didn't win/make it/get it, no one else should either, and certainly not the ones who did."

Often this is the case, I'm not trying to argue that. But one shouldn't forget that it equally often isn't. Unfortunately, since the jealousy-fueled debates/arguments tend to get a lot more heated, they often get noticed more easily. And as soon as the person presenting the argument has any sort of 'stake' in the basis of the complaint, the easiest assumption to make is that it's jealousy-based.

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Originally Posted by yuixjfa

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It's amazing how much people can take something out of context and twist it to the way they want for the sake of starting an argument on the internet. NO ONE in this thread so far as openly discounted any finalist entry, nor have they said any did not deserve to be there. The argument and the reason this thread was started by the OP was to simply inquire if there was anyone else who felt the contest should have been done differently, mainly the voting process and the pool of finalists itself. And there's plenty who were not satisfied with the number of finalists, or how the finalist pool did not lend well to the diverse wants of the community. No one here even mentioned their own entry, especially the OP. And there's even more people who didn't enter that are questioning the contest as a whole as well. So, please, stop using the argument we're all "crying" because we didn't win. That's not the purpose of this thread at all.

And again, we are by no means complaining at the chance to have a contest like this one, merely that it was handled in the wrong way. The assumption that because we're voicing an opinion about the way things turned out means we somehow are ungrateful for the opportunity is complete bs. We also didn't hop in the thread and use foul language or openly bash someone's entry as you did, which is inappropriate even if you disagree with us.

The 1.0 comparison was also NOT used as a comparison to the contest, but a comparison to the need to sometimes step up and tell the company, in which you, the consumer, receive a product from, that the product needs work or could be better. Any company with even a remote sense of good business knows and would appreciate that kind of feedback, even moreso than a pat on the back with an A-okay sticker for a good job.

Again I reiterate, we are not saying the final entries themselves are not what the community wanted, but the final pool itself and the way they came about those selections was a poor interpretation of the diverse wants a good number of us have. There just should have been a better chance to showcase a greater number of entries to vote on. Plain and simple.

I would like to respectfully disagree with the OP. While it might be nice for the styles to be more diverse, I feel that the contest clearly stated that SE would pick out finalists that they liked most (and felt they could implement). Of course this biases the contest toward Japanese styles - the people choosing their favorites are Japanese, after all. Yes, there are more Japanese finalists than other regions, because Japanese entrants are more likely to enter styles that are more popular to the Japanese developers choosing the finalists. I also don't get the argument that a style is "plagiarized" if an character from a game or show has something similar. There's only so much you can do with hair. A lot of it has been done by someone somewhere. The one people were claiming was Rudy's from Log Horizon, I've seen on tons of characters in tons of shows. It's a minor variant of a common style, and it's not even identical to Rudy's. (The Quintis style is different - that's totally unoriginal.)

When the contest rules said the entries had to be an original work, I read that as the images must be an original work. You can't screencap an anime or take a screenshot from another game, or submit a photo of a celebrity or something from an advertisement (which was done, I know, but they did disqualify that one). I didn't think they were saying that the style had to be a unique hairstyle never seen before.

And yes, I would have liked more styles that are styles I personally like and would personally use. My metric for what hair (or clothing) I'd put on a character is "would I wear this myself in public?" and very few of the hairstyles chosen are ways I would wear my own hair. But, that's just the way it is. You can't please everyone, and the developers weren't trying to. They were just picking the entries they liked the most. If I had been the one choosing entries based on what I liked, people would be complaining about the lack of short hairstyles :P


I do have a complaint about the contest though - my favorite style of the selections (female #16) wasn't at the very bottom. While most contests like this favor the top entries, this one favors the lower ones. Of the two that currently have over 5,000 likes, the one I like better is higher on the list than the other, so it'll have more disqualified votes. I dislike that they used the like system, but only accept the last like. If they're going to use the system, I feel they should use it the way it is - let people vote for multiple entries, accepting all likes as votes. Done this way, I'm sure there are tons of likes for later entries that are not the voter's favorite because they missed the rule (which I did until I saw the message on the dev tracker) and just liked every style they liked. The first time I voted, my latest like was for the entry I liked the least out of the eight I voted for, because I was on the fence about it the longest.

Actually, thinking about it, my vote is likely still cast for that one I liked 8th most, because when I went back and unliked all but my favorite, I never unliked and re-liked my favorite. My last like was for that other entry, even though it isn't marked as liked anymore for me. I better go fix that!

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Originally Posted by Nyalia

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I do not disagree with what you're saying, and I have to thank you for showing a good example of how a person should show their disagreement rather than the others have done earlier.

I'm sure we were all aware that SE was picking the selections based on what they liked, that was never in question. But after seeing the results and as you pointed out, the rather slanted and one-sided selections to pick from... I personally just feel misled. You have to look at the possible numbers. If SE received 1000 entries (which I'm quite sure they did at bare minimum), selecting 25 is representing less than 1% of entries, and when you include all the people who did not enter, that 25 selected represents even less of the community. Therefore our biggest complaint is the number of entries in the finals in the first place. And we're asking for maybe some consideration if they ever decide to do a design contest again, whether its hair or something else, to consider giving us the chance to be more active in the voting process and showing more entries. I don't think that idea is too complicated. This contest may be too late to change, but there should be room for improvement in the future.

Also not disagreeing with the idea of the SE character hairstyles making it in, but a lot of us felt it should have been showcased in a separate category away from "original" designs. Or have been implemented separately all together. The contest again, was supposed to have us create original designs, and no matter how you swing it, basing off a SE character isn't all that original. That lessened the number again of possible original entries even further (let alone the one that was removed completely taking up a spot).

If SE let the community do a lot of this weeding out for them, I think honestly more of us would feel better represented. Even if they still picked the finalist pool (just hopefully more than 1%) we still have the chance for more variety. And I agree with you as well with how the voting system for this contest needs a lot of work. A good number of people are still confused about the last "like" and all that. So again, proves a point contests like this should be improved in the future.

"but what if i'm not represented in two hairstyles that will be added to a game"

http://cdn.funnyisms.com/09c0c3d0-a2...a4ca06fb45.gif

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Originally Posted by Oblitae

"but what if i'm not represented in two hairstyles that will be added to a game"

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Oh look, another one.

http://independentaustralia.net/word...1/Strawman.png

On another note,

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Originally Posted by Kyonika

Anyways, I think it's more like some kind of debate tool that white knights, SJWs, Fedora-wearing internet heroes, and malnourished 400lb foreveralone neckbeards use to dismantle an argument they don't personally agree with. It's like, "Since I can't win with a well-constructed argument, I'll win by just throwing some fallacy terms at it to make it sound wrong/false, while simultaneously implying/making myself look like an authority on internet debates - even though I'm not qualified. Yay!...I'm such an internet tough guy!"

If that doesn't work, or is met with a counter, then it will usually devolve into a "...sheep," or "he mad" shit post, or a "stop liking what I don't like" whine. When these kind of posts appear, I just ignore them. They are irksome and tiresome. They're not qualified to speak against anything, and they're not saying anything either. They are simply shit posts. They're just trying to look important. I think the term "narcissist" comes to mind.

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Wow, you are actually defending the use of fallacies and implying that calling out fallacies is a fallacy... Excuse me a moment my head is spinning.

Ok I'm good now. I bolded some things I'd like to comment. A post riddled with fallacies is not a well constructed argument. Calling out fallacies is calling out a badly constructed argument. So when you next see the word "fallacy" being used, you should see for yourself here. Anyone is qualified to try and have a clean debate or discussion, and that entails weeding out poorly constructed or invalid arguments like those on the list.

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Originally Posted by KasKatta

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Apologies - I wasn't very specific about what I disagreed with. I'm not saying that the contest couldn't/shouldn't have been done better. A lot of the suggestions in this thread for improvements, I totally agree with. What I was disagreeing with was the assertion that the lack of variety was a problem, and that the hairstyles weren't sufficiently unique. Yes, there was a lack of variety to an extent, and yes, I'd rather there be more variety than there was, but I don't see it as a problem, possibly because it's what I was expecting in the first place. I could see them looking at a style and going, "I really like that general style (side ponytail, bun, etc), and would like to have a style like that in game at some point, if not now, later. Let's throw in some variants so we can see what specific form of that style people want the most." I don't see that as bad. They're looking for feedback, but within specific parameters. Unlike most other contests here, this contest isn't about choosing the most popular or best presented hairstyle, it's about choosing the most popular/best presented hairstyle from a small subset that a small group of people chose.

Yes, more diversity is good. Yes, more variety is great. Yes, more styles to choose from would be wonderful. But, I don't see the lack of any of these things as a sign of a failed contest, or even a flawed contest.

All that said, I'd like to be clear on another matter - I totally agree with you on the Quintis hairstyle. I feel like that shouldn't have made it in. That doesn't invalidate what I said above. I also don't feel like the two clear mistakes (the quintis style and the plagiarized one) make the whole contest a flop.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Oh look, another one.

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Except, that's the short hand of what OP said. Crying over not being properly represented.

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Originally Posted by DoctorSecksy

This would be a petition stating the general upset at the lack of representation of what we, as a community, wanted in style choices.

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The summary of both sides of this argument were finished about 2 pages in. After that, you're all just re-phrasing the same opinion circlejerking to see who's the best at forming sentences in a convincing tone.

Don't get me wrong, it's good this thread exists because at the off chance somebody important does read this, perhaps then in the future what has been said here might be taken into consideration. However; 26 pages of "i disagree because my opinions make more logical sense than yours so suck it" is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Oblitae

Except, that's the short hand of what OP said. Crying over not being properly represented.

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"but what if i'm not represented in two hairstyles that will be added to a game"

That's what you said. The OP is talking about being represented in the 25 voting options that the devs picked. If you are able to see the difference between those statements, would you mind responding to the actual point of this thread? Here are some examples. Do you feel the voting options are diverse? Are there duplicate styles and if yes, could/should they have been cut down to give room for different styles? Are there any commonly used (irl) hairstyles missing from the options? Is a pool of 25 options large enough to give enough variation?

For me, the answers would be no, yes, yes, yes and no.

Two hairstyles are going to be added, OP will not like them and OP will not wear them. They'll be bothered for a month at max that their one chance to be represented in a game has been ruined. This is the subtext.

I don't feel like the voting options are diverse, no. I'm someone who joined the contest having drawn a style with dreadlocks and at first glance I was needless to say a little frustrated with what the judges picked. I'm fully aware that what's been picked conforms to 1 genre, but that isn't surprising with this "being a Japanese game". - As many people have stated. 25 options isn't large enough to give variation but anymore than that and you start losing a lot of people's interest. To make some assumptions as many people are doing in this thread, if people cannot sit through a 10 minute YouTube video they won't scroll for days picking out hairstyles. Which thus brings in to question the format of the voting. It sucks. We all know it sucks. "Only the last like counts" etc. I also love how the descriptions of the hairstyles were not actually included in the end but then again they would have to translate it and that means the already late voting period could have been even later.

Leading back to the point about representation..

I had designed hairstyles I thought would appeal not to myself but to others who i know wanted something different from what we already had. A lot of people i'm sure did the same. Thinking about it I wish this was the thought process the judges has taken when picking and choosing. But as that isn't the case, there is something else people can do, y'know? Just find another way to be represented in a game.

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Originally Posted by Oblitae

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I believe you have very valid points. I'll also go back to something I said earlier where I mentioned a petition would have questionable results, because the probability that this thread will be noticed by someone who can do anything about the issues being addressed in it is very slim. However, that does not mean the issues and points made in this thread should not have been voiced at all. There really is nothing we can do at this point other than state what we feel, what we feel the next contest could do better, yadda yadda with the hope someone at SE notices.

Once things get implemented in game, you're right, a good number of us are going to ignore the chosen hair if it doesn't suit our tastes and move on. We can only hope the next time we have the chance to do this it doesn't end up the same. Which leads back to the original intent of the OP and this thread, however skewed and along the many directions it took to get here.

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Originally Posted by Oblitae

Two hairstyles are going to be added, OP will not like them and OP will not wear them. They'll be bothered for a month at max that their one chance to be represented in a game has been ruined. This is the subtext.

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That is probably true for a lot of us players, and even if the selection was more diverse, it would still most likely be true for a lot of us players.

But that's not really the point of the thread. The point of the thread is, we have people who like every letter in the alphabet, but everyone doesn't like all the letters, of course. Now let's select the most popular letter in the alphabet. You're allowed to vote on A, A, A, B, B, C, D, A, B, E, B, A, C, F. Which is your favourite letter? Oh, you're unhappy that C won? Well, even if we'd been allowed to vote on every letter, you'd still have been disappointed if your favourite letter didn't win. Well, maybe C hadn't won if all the people liking a non-represented letter best had been allowed to vote on that letter, and at least my favourite letter would have had a chance to win =D

It's not the winning entry (which hasn't been decided yet) we're upset with. It's not that "my entry should have been in the finals, because mine is obviously better". It's not that "my particular kind of favourite hairstyle isn't represented". And it's certainly not an attempt at putting down those artists lucky enough to get their entry into the finals, even though it might seem that way sometimes.

It's that with such a narrow selection (on the female side: several side-tails, the majority of hairstyles over-all being very 'cutesy', almost all of them straight-haired, almost all of them with bangs, to give a few examples), the number of people who don't have their favoured type of hairstyle represented is a lot larger than if the selection was more varied. This means that more people will either be choosing not to vote at all, or will be choosing to vote on the 'least unattractive choice'.


I'm fairly sure that most of us who think this are aware that nothing will be changed in this contest. But we can always strive to persuade SE to do things differently the next time they decide to hold a contest like this, whether it's to design a hairstyle or a garment or a barding or something else. For example doing it tournament style. Or by having a couple of sub-categories as a 'semi-final' stage (with categories such as 'short hair', 'tails/braids', 'other updos' or other types of dividing the entries by 'approximate look'), and the top X entries from each category making it to the finals -- or even the top X entries if you look at all the categories together (meaning if semi-final group A has five hairstyles that all have a higher number of votes than any hairstyle at all from the other categories, then we'd have five finalists from group A).
That way, SE would still have the option to set aside hairstyles they either feel wouldn't be possible to implement or already have vague plans to implement already -- or whatever other reason they may have -- and we as a community would be able to not only decide from a larger pool of entries, but also help ensure that the winning entry is one that the majority actually loves insteads of sees as the 'lesser evil'.

(I'm sorry if my attempts at explaining are confusing x_x I'm not really good at explaining things.)

Y'all missed the point.

We didn't need three side ponytails on the list. One of them looks almost exactly like the lightning hair ffs.

We didn't need the two pigtails tied at the nape. We already have that, difference is them being up two inches.

We wanted things we *don't* have. We got things we already have, or the same thing in more than one color.

I didn't vote for any of the females. Why? I wasn't impressed. At all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adire

We shouldn't have to do those things to be accepted or heard. What's the point anyways in being heard if you aren't allowed to criticize without being ignored?

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Don't you know Criticizing SE staff is against the rules?

My cousin was temp banned for talking about something not worth getting banned for he actually thinks he was being singled out due to having a SNK sig due to them being in a law suit and GM's kept banning him for reasons till he was off forums then went into his account and removed the sig.

He kinda laughed said forums are a joke due to rules are messed up any troll or person could get someone banned for a simple comment.
Though the Troll himself who makes the thread with the questions doesn't get banned but the person who gave the answer is.

Plus the fact they lock off contest and tech support from banned people, this isn't a open forum like you think it is we can't just do what we want.
Remember you gotta watch what you say or get your mouth washed out with soap by the GM's just a tiny slip up and they'll use any excuse to ban you.

this isn't off topic its answering your question.

By the way the criticizing thing my cousin was banned for he basically said that something in the game made people lazy he got a email stating he criticized staff and was temp banned but he said he was talking to a person who said he didn't wanna do runs and he said it made that person lazy makes no sense the word lazy isn't bad why he think it was the SNK sig this whole time.

I read the email said he was a threat to the community isn't that defamation of character? idk anyways peace out and also SE doesn't do petitions read that some place.

@zeonx

Forums aren't a right, they're a privilege. They're also not subject to first amendment rights as it's a private entity. They have every right to ban someone from the forums for any reason they want, including for example, the fact your name has a Z in it ant they might not like that letter.

Stupid? Possibly. Their rules.

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Originally Posted by Zeonx

snip

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Yes, it is. As I said though, rarely do I see SE staff being criticized. It's usually general criticism of the company as an entity, and its choices. I never criticize particular staff members or the staff in general for example.

Ignoring criticism and forbidding it entirely is a great way to ensure your company has no idea what fans really want though. Not to mention, it's counter to the concept of a free and progressing society. But oh well, there's nothing we can do about that.

I don't see a problem with allowing tasteful and constructive criticism. And seeing as I have yet to be silenced, I think SE is willing to listen to constructive criticism. I know they have in the past for complaints others have had, and that's a good thing.

But that's just my experience, can't speak for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

@zeonx

Forums aren't a right, they're a privilege. They're also not subject to first amendment rights as it's a private entity. They have every right to ban someone from the forums for any reason they want, including for example, the fact your name has a Z in it ant they might not like that letter.

Stupid? Possibly. Their rules.

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Not true, I agree to a point, though wouldn't be fair if they follow their own rules? if they say don't do something but you don't do it and they ban you anyways? what they ban you for doesn't make sense which makes them not follow their own rules.

I am over here now and he said why he just doesn't care he was making a point about people need to watch what they say cause they don't follow their own rules they just ban if they don't like what you say.

Its not just them either is people on here anyone you, me and someone else, if they find what you say offensive they can ban you, then get revenge basically the person finds out they get banned then they keep a eye on your account then get you banned perm by following them around watching and reading what they say, he says its the reason those rules are faulty.

it happens. Like if someone didn't like what you said and just waited for you to cuss or say something in a form of attack and reported you kept doing it till your 4th time is up for perm.

anyways that's all good luck with the petition.

Greetings,

We are thankful for the feedback that you have left regarding the FFXIV Hairstyle Design Contest. However, discussion on this thread is becoming negative and we would like to ask that all posters contribute constructively to the discussion. If this negativity continues, we will be closing the thread.

Thank you for your attention and have a nice day!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Y'all missed the point.

We didn't need three side ponytails on the list. One of them looks almost exactly like the lightning hair ffs.

We didn't need the two pigtails tied at the nape. We already have that, difference is them being up two inches.

We wanted things we *don't* have. We got things we already have, or the same thing in more than one color.

I didn't vote for any of the females. Why? I wasn't impressed. At all.

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The top voted ones are completely different ones in the game. I dont want something that way out of the left field. Hair like Afro might be funny for a small amount of players, but are the majority really going to run around with an Afro? It would make sense for SE to select ones that make sense in the game and appeal to the largest amount of player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

Y'all missed the point.

We didn't need three side ponytails on the list. One of them looks almost exactly like the lightning hair ffs.

We didn't need the two pigtails tied at the nape. We already have that, difference is them being up two inches.

We wanted things we *don't* have. We got things we already have, or the same thing in more than one color.

I didn't vote for any of the females. Why? I wasn't impressed. At all.

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Who are you to say what "we" wanted?

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Originally Posted by Nestama

I'm just hoping that if SE were to do this kind of contest again, they split hairstyles into three categories for the two genders for people to vote for (short, medium and long) and then have people vote on one of the top three (one of each from short, medium and long).

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This is honestly what I had been expecting them to do, or at the very least provide an equal number of short, medium and long hairstyles for each gender in the finals. I suspect there would have been far less complaining if they'd done that-- I know that I at least would have been fine with it even if I hadn't particularly cared for any of the hairstyles selected simply because then there would truly be some diversity in what was represented.

The entirety of FFXIV 2.0 was built by a team that deeply values the opinions of their players. It's why it's the game it is. Those of you shaming the thread for voicing something we'd like to see: Go. Be content with what you have. The rest of us saw this contest as an opportunity for variance in customization options and we were let down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elrisivana

Greetings,

We are thankful for the feedback that you have left regarding the FFXIV Hairstyle Design Contest. However, discussion on this thread is becoming negative and we would like to ask that all posters contribute constructively to the discussion. If this negativity continues, we will be closing the thread.

Thank you for your attention and have a nice day!

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Please eternal bond with me I have the most awesome hairstyle and upper-middleclass gil.

That is if you were a female ingame & IRL.

There is literally no western representation in the Hairstyle Contest, which means only the JP player base had any real say in what got passed. Nearly every one of the finalists were Japanese, which made the fact that I even attempted to participate incredibly upsetting. The next time they do this they need to divide it up by region, and actually have judges from those regions so that the western player base isn't ruled out simply on the basis of Japanese Aesthetic Preference. I have a variety of reasons I didn't up and quit, mostly the community, friends, and time invested, but also I feel FFXIV is a stellar game, and I usually try to get my other friends and partners to play. And the thing is, I wasn't upset I didn't see my entry in the contest. I was upset that every entry seemed to be from a Japanese player, and that all the top finalists were as well. If the Developers are trying to make the Western players feel included, that's not the way to do it. It doesn't matter if the final selection is just variants of 3 different hairstyles, as long as the total player base is represented.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reneta_Xian

There is literally no western representation in the Hairstyle Contest, which means only the JP player base had any real say in what got passed.

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This is literally untrue. There was at least a FR entry, as stated earlier in the thread. The entries were just all posted in Japanese, making them look like they were all JP entries.