Recipe changes in 1.19

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Originally Posted by Reika

You could do that, but then they are adding felt armors and such, which I think surpasses woolen. Tho cotton still has its uses for underwear at least, since it looks like they didn't add new underwear ><. I was thinking about doing it for logs too, but its best to just grind as much away on walnut masks as possible before the change, because the rank of that recipe may change. same for a lot of recipes. I will probably find myself upset to find out that making cobalt ingots would have been excellent SP at higher ranks, where as i used so much iron/silver getting BSM to r50 :(.

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yeah, thankfully i capped my carp about a week ago. i know how you feel about bsm because i did the same thing there. if you need any walnut lumber i have some just hit me up in game reika. i think i have some left over anyways and didn't toss it.

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

the gil was nerfed a bit, the sp is still better then grind and quite god id say. i went from 49-50 in 2 hours. I think saying 1.18 ruined leves for you is kinda a dumb statement if ou dont ahve any facts to back it up. you could just say you dont like doing leves, but i wont have anything to do with 1.18.

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If you think 1.18 has nothing to do then i ask...what was the main change in 1.18 and what are battlecraft leves based on? It's simple...you see i'm not talking in genneral...my problem is strictly with battlecraftleves...i like fieldcraft (so much that they're the ones i'm doing from regional), i liked alot the change at locals...but i can't stand this battle system. I know...it was just the AA...but this "just" was enough for me to start really hating te battle system.

Adjustments will be made after the patch goes live. Save your rage untill you can actively participate in the changes, then voice your concerns about specific actions, recipes, exp, etc.

They are not going to delay the patch further because of some perceived unbalances. Play the role we have been given which is that of a Play-Tester, try out the new recipes and give the Devs some feedback based on actual playtesting, not on speculation.

This applies to Battle related changes as well. Good luck, have fun, stay calm, keep in touch.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

If you think 1.18 has nothing to do then i ask...what was the main change in 1.18 and what are battlecraft leves based on? It's simple...you see i'm not talking in genneral...my problem is strictly with battlecraftleves...i like fieldcraft (so much that they're the ones i'm doing from regional), i liked alot the change at locals...but i can't stand this battle system. I know...it was just the AA...but this "just" was enough for me to start really hating te battle system.

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I havent played a battle class since a week after 1.18 came out.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

Adjustments will be made after the patch goes live. Save your rage untill you can actively participate in the changes, then voice your concerns about specific actions, recipes, exp, etc.

They are not going to delay the patch further because of some perceived unbalances. Play the role we have been given which is that of a Play-Tester, try out the new recipes and give the Devs some feedback based on actual playtesting, not on speculation.

This applies to Battle related changes as well. Good luck, have fun, stay calm, keep in touch.

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ahhh this is a post of a smart man. to bad its the only one .....

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Originally Posted by Razor

I don't understand why people are raging about the pace at which we'll be leveling because that really hasn't changed. All that changed is what we will be leveling on.

What bothers me is the cost. Look at this example of crafting 200 trapper's hats (something I did from r19 to 23ish) that each NPC'd for 1350g

Recipe:
1x Cotton Cloth, 1x Dodo Leather, 1x Hippogryph Sinew Cord

Before:
500g Dodo Skin = 4x Dodo leather (125g per leather).
500g Cotton Boll x2 (1000g) = 12x Thread = 12x Cloth (80g per cloth).
750g Hippogryph Sinew Cord = 12x Sinew (62.5g per cord)

(50 hide, 200 leather = 25,000g) + (34 bolls, 200x cloth = 17,000g) + (17 sinew, 200 cords = 12,750g)
Total Cost: 54,750g
Total Return: 270,000g ~ 215,250g PROFIT



After: (Assuming no inflation, which there will be because supply has no chance of keeping up with the massive demand raw materials will have)
500g Dodo Skin = 1x Dodo leather (500g per leather).
500g Cotton Boll x2 (1000g) = 1x Thread = 1x Cloth (1000g per cloth).
750g Hippogryph Sinew Cord = 1x Sinew (750g per cord)? (Correct me if this is wrong, I don't remember seeing what it said for this, I will correct my math accordingly)

(200 hide, 200 leather = 100,000g) + (400 bolls, 200x cloth = 200,000g) + (200 sinew, 200 cords = 150,000g)
Total Cost: 450,000g
Total Return: 270,000g ~ 180,000g LOSS

So suddenly, the same inexpensive recipe I used to rank up and stash some cash for future not-so-profitable ones just became a huge loss. That is without the price inflation that will occur without a huge increase in either A. gatherers, B. the quantity of raw material that they will sell. This also doesn't include the increased amount of crystals I will need to fulfill all these synths. As a leatherworker, I'm screwed. All my stuff comes from mob drops which will now be even more crowded than they used to be.

Don't get me wrong, I love the update and unlike most people think its a overall positive step. The financial side of things scare me though. Feels like everyone who is already an R50 crafters will just be able to make lots of money at the expense of all the developing crafters. (As in, they will be using this inflation to sell finished items for more money while we have to pay more just for the raw materials to skill up on our bulk-loss-synths)

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I think this will balance out the economy. I was always astounded at how much gil I could make grinding crafting. I had a feeling that these changes would effect the economy, but I didn't know how to explain it and you did that really well, thanks.

Of course you don't have to level on trappers hats any more. You can level on Dodoskin pothelms if you like... (Which oddly the recipe is listed as using sheep leather?)

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Originally Posted by Lienn

If you think 1.18 has nothing to do then i ask...what was the main change in 1.18 and what are battlecraft leves based on? It's simple...you see i'm not talking in genneral...my problem is strictly with battlecraftleves...i like fieldcraft (so much that they're the ones i'm doing from regional), i liked alot the change at locals...but i can't stand this battle system. I know...it was just the AA...but this "just" was enough for me to start really hating te battle system.

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wait now your changing what you said before, i can understand if you dont like the battle system. But, you said leves changed and they didn't really change too much. You said the new leves ruined it for you.

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Originally Posted by Davorok

Adjustments will be made after the patch goes live. Save your rage untill you can actively participate in the changes, then voice your concerns about specific actions, recipes, exp, etc.

They are not going to delay the patch further because of some perceived unbalances. Play the role we have been given which is that of a Play-Tester, try out the new recipes and give the Devs some feedback based on actual playtesting, not on speculation.

This applies to Battle related changes as well. Good luck, have fun, stay calm, keep in touch.

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yeah i seem to recall the same thing being stated about the battle changes and when people talked anything bad afterwards they got constantly flamed.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

If you think 1.18 has nothing to do then i ask...what was the main change in 1.18 and what are battlecraft leves based on? It's simple...you see i'm not talking in genneral...my problem is strictly with battlecraftleves...i like fieldcraft (so much that they're the ones i'm doing from regional), i liked alot the change at locals...but i can't stand this battle system. I know...it was just the AA...but this "just" was enough for me to start really hating te battle system.

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If you're talking about the auto attack change this has nothing to do with the argument in this thread. We're talking about how it will take longer to level with these changes and people complaining about it just like the leve changes in 1.18. If they changed the crafting system to were you dont have to hit standard synthesis anymore and you only use abilities like Preserve then you can make that comparison.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah i seem to recall the same thing being stated about the battle changes and when people talked anything bad afterwards they got constantly flamed.

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thats because most people like the battle system...... so thats that i guess....

Oh, damn it! All the excitement I felt at first suddenly changed into apprehension: if they're gonna nerf this bad the number of materials in the next patch, I guess I should work like crazy to increase my crafts before it arrives in a week?

And it couldn't happen at a worst time: I finally got the hang of battle and was leveling quite nice for the last days with a few friends. Just thinking about going back to lvl up my crafting by force doesn't sound like fun.:(

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

wait now your changing what you said before, i can understand if you dont like the battle system. But, you said leves changed and they didn't really change too much. You said the new leves ruined it for you, you didnt day anything about the battle system before.

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I'm not. Lemme quote myself:

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Well, i am annoyed with leves still. I don't do battlecraft since 1.18 and might not do it anymore. Also, i don't rank up battle classes anymore unless someone ask for help with leves or something. Battle itself annoys me since 1.18.

IMO 1.18 damaged the battle system terribly and now 1.19 might do the same to craft. Seems like they want to finish destroying Eorzea before 2012.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...474#post360474

I specified my grudge was about battlecraft from the start. You prolly misread/misunderstood it.

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Originally Posted by Lienn

If you think 1.18 has nothing to do then i ask...what was the main change in 1.18 and what are battlecraft leves based on? It's simple...you see i'm not talking in general...my problem is strictly with battlecraft leves...i like fieldcraft (so much that they're the ones i'm doing from regional), i liked alot the change at locals...but i can't stand this battle system. I know...it was just the AA...but this "just" was enough for me to start really hating te battle system.

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I didn't do battle leves for a long while after 1.18, since gathering leves give really good SP now. But ive done a few for a while, and they really are good as long as you use the right difficulty. Difficulty has changed, 5 star is very soloable as long as your id say at least 5 ranks above the leve rank and can heal yourself well, but there are some that will still need to be lowered. Doing them in a group is still better than doing them solo however, even tho SE intends them to be mainly solo. You still recieve SP Bonus after someone esle completes their leve. It may not be much, but after doing 64 leves, it adds up. 8 leves of your own you get full bonus from, and 56 others you get partial bonus from. for R40 leves, the parcial bonus is always above 600 sp. multiply that by 56 (assuming no links) thats 33600 sp just from that at its lowest. It would actually be higher than that. Add the SP from your own leves (assuming no GA and at 5 stars) they are about 5000 each thats 40000 from your own leves, totalling 73600 in leves. with GA they are 7500-8000 each (some leves give more), so that is 97600 sp at the lowest. Granted with links the 'shared' sp will actually be a bit lower, so i would say at least 80000sp - 90000sp for doing 8 leves in a group with GA. r40 faction leves give 8500-9000 for 5star completion, speed, and GA. Oh, then you add the bit of SP for the kills you make and it is a bit more, even tho the amount of kills you make isn't the main determinant in leve SP anymore, it is just a small portion of it.

And if you ever decide to get back to it in a group, you only have to Aspect leves you start or link.

Also.... This thread is about recipe changes damnit :D

Back to recipe changes topic then. ^^:

IMO these changes will bring way more problems than benefits...but then we have the default excuse... "In FFXI was like this."

In the end it might be a backfire...the idea was to make synths cheap so people would spam finished items and drop the prices to poop levels...so people wouldn't mind turning their stuff into materia. However, these changes not only will turn most materials way more expensivebut also will go against the "realistic" proposal FFXIV had...but seems this proposal will also fall with the FFXIV's "V" in 1.19.

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Originally Posted by Reika

I didn't do battle leves for a long while after 1.18, since gathering leves give really good SP now...

Also.... This thread is about recipe changes damnit :D

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Yeah, you got that right, but you got a nice point here: so far the SP gaining in gathering and crafting it's been good. So in next patch if the number of material will be so drastically reduced, then would it be safe to assume that the SP gaining will be proportional increased? This would be the logical answer but sadly... -sigh-... people tend to make the wrong ones.

Before flying off the handle lets take a look at things:

Let's look at oh, say Cotton Dalmatica

Old system (not counting carpenter and alchemist and leatherworker):
You need:
Raw Materials (Weaving only, there's also some Leathercrafting, Carpentry and Alchemy inputs)
2 x Moko Grass
2 x Cotton Boll
(1 x Alumen, 1 x Slate-grey Dyer's Moss, 1 x Muddy Water, 1 x Sheepskin, 1x willow log not listed)
Using 8 weaving synths will get us the final product. with some left over cotton yarn, moko yarn, hempen cloth (grey).

New system:
Raw Materials:
10 x Cotton Boll (say 12 and you'll have some left overs)
1 x Antelope Sinew
Using 5 synths will get us our final product (no need for the other crafts at all), although using the high volume synths and spreading the cloth/yarn amongst multiple end products the average number of synths per end product could go down with volume manufacturing.

so: Raw materials input is up (but less cross craft ones). Crystal shards/crystals input is down. Moderate reduction in number of synths.

1) I'm going to assume that not ALL synths are listed (if they are some items are going to become collectors items since they can no longer be made), just enough examples that we know what to expect.

2) If there are not too many typos in the list (I think there's quite a few) looks like there's a potential shift in shard usage but overall shards will be MUCH less in demand compared to previously. Less synths per final product, less crystals per synth.

3) There is not THAT much of a reduction in the number of synths (this was a surprise actually), The reduction in needed inventory space however is welcome.

Side note: I don't know about you guys but I've been vendoring most moko grass and cotton boll's I've been getting since I already have a full stack each and that's been sufficient for my needs. So this looks reasonable to me. We'll have to see how it all works out in practice. Gathering just got a boost with these changes however.

Don't forget, with materia there will be an INCREASED demand for final products.

maybe we should assume the dev team has done some xp balancing with the new recipes before we freak out about how we wont be able to rank. maybe you can grind on yarn for 400xp each now, no one knows.

also i think its ironic taht some of the poeple saying crafting is not real enough now(no arrow heads for arrows) are the same people complaining about 1 ball for 1 yarn. Isnt it more realistic that 1 would equal 1 and not 12.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

oh yeah i am already working on turning my stacks of logs into lumber, bolls and flax into yarn, and skins into leather. i'm going to make another alt just to put those items on.

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I wonder if "dated" items can be use on new recipes. We better wait to turn logs into lumber until the release of 1.19.

I got a feeling that every "dated" items we won't be able to use it on new system, and that include turn in "dated" item into materia. IMO, fixing old recipes and linking them to the new system are too complicated, so they create a complete list of new recipes. That is why dev team state that "Items that are crafted using pre-1.19 recipes have had "Dated" added to their names (e.g. Dated Canvas Robe)." You'll still have your "Dated Canvas Robe +3" that you can't upgrade with the new materia system. In this way, they don't need to "convert" your +3 equipment into HQ, and all the +3 items will eventually vanished from the market, because they are not the best gear anymore.

I think leatherworkers, when SP is involved, should love this patch. Highest rank thing i see to grind on for leatherworker right now is raptor skin. Since raptor skin is going to stay the highest tier leather, it will still be good to SP on. Also since finished items will take way less mats, making them good for SP as well, there will be something to do with that raptor skin besides make raptorskin targes lol.

Even tho the yield changed from 4 to 1, I still think things will speed up for leatherworker. We will just have to see what all the recipe ranks will be. *Raptorskin would be a good thing to convert right about now :D*

Well, so far I'm liking this thread, so many opinions, so many good comments. I just want to add that not matter how many times I try this game, in the end it feels just like a poker game: whenever I feel I got the right cards and I'm 100% of winning big time -wham- I totally lost the bet.:mad: But also, sometimes I dare to take a risk and gamble....it pays off!!:D

So I'm willing to gamble and risk that in the next patch, particularly when it concerns the implementation of materia (which I'm really looking forward ;)) things are gonna change for the better. Sure, a lot of people got the hang of today crafting and many have capped their crafts (lucky fellows!:p), and I have to confess I'm pretty freaked for the new system, but let's be positive and hope for the best.

And in the end, if the market prices rise, nothing helps to get more money than doing 5 star leves, and that's when our high battle jobs come in handy.:cool:

Btw, I really need to update my sig (thought it was done automatically), I'm reaching lvl 38 soon and finally: By the Twelve! To be able to wear my armor without penalty for rank!!!

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Originally Posted by Vesper

Wow, not a friggin single... not one culinary recipe revision in there? The class that has the most damn ingredients are you effin with me? Dropping the price of crafted food on merchants? Crafted food on merchants should have been removed completely.

Everything else is looking good, but damn you bent us over yet again.

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This! Seriously, why were there ZERO changes to the DoH class that needed it the most. Culinarian not only requires massive amounts of materials, but the food system itself is in need of an overhaul.

If they're simply waiting until they revamp the food and consumables together, they should have least told us so.

Wow, that is a huge revamp there! -eyes stacks of miscellany on retainers- I think this transition will be a little painful, but ultimately for the better.

I am a little confused about the list though . . . I hope it does not include everything? There is a conspicuous lack of pink gear and all-purpose pink dye. >.< And is it just me or is canvas going bye-bye?

It will be interesting to see once the patch goes live. I can't wait to get some new crafted gear -- I hope all you weavers are ready! ;)

Alchemists & Culinarians need to band together and demand answers!

We won't stand for this! :mad:

What will happen to all the items not used in the new recipes?! There are so many of them! This is sad, there are a lot with good potential for new recipes!

A willow bow made of maple, wow.

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Originally Posted by Len

Alchemists & Culinarians need to band together and demand answers!

We won't stand for this! :mad:

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I agree. The only reason I didn't lvl up my alchemist is because the best items are high ending ranks, while in the middle, there aren't that many valuable. Hell! Even the only one that got my eye, the clear glass lens for making spectacles and goggles is lvl 40! But in the middle of all that work to reach lvl 40...nothing that really matters!

And Alchemist have one of the best looking animations: both with primary and secondary tools.:cool:

The Translations thread states that Cul and Alc will get love in a later patch

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Originally Posted by Fanzeron

I agree. The only reason I didn't lvl up my alchemist is because the best items are high ending ranks, while in the middle, there aren't that many valuable. Hell! Even the only one that got my eye, the clear glass lens for making spectacles and goggles is lvl 40! But in the middle of all that work to reach lvl 40...nothing that really matters!

And Alchemist have one of the best looking animations: both with primary and secondary tools.:cool:

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leves 'n' crystals yo, leves 'n' crystals

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Originally Posted by Nini_Fisher

I wonder if "dated" items can be use on new recipes. We better wait to turn logs into lumber until the release of 1.19.

I got a feeling that every "dated" items we won't be able to use it on new system, and that include turn in "dated" item into materia. IMO, fixing old recipes and linking them to the new system are too complicated, so they create a complete list of new recipes. That is why dev team state that "Items that are crafted using pre-1.19 recipes have had "Dated" added to their names (e.g. Dated Canvas Robe)." You'll still have your "Dated Canvas Robe +3" that you can't upgrade with the new materia system. In this way, they don't need to "convert" your +3 equipment into HQ, and all the +3 items will eventually vanished from the market, because they are not the best gear anymore.

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i would imagine they would be or else no item in the game at that point in time would have any value. i was looking at like lumber will be automatically considered nq items and even if it was a +3 lumber it would only count as a nq mat on the new synths. since it is a nq mat regardless of the hq before the update you would never be able to hq the craft with (dated) materials.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

The Translations thread states that Cul and Alc will get love in a later patch

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We need love now; we're tired of being the red-headed stepchildren of the DoH! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Len

We need love now; we're tired of being the red-headed stepchildren of the DoH! :mad:

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You guys might. Yoshida said something about repair kits a while ago...if they're my repair kits then it is so ALC and CUL (all DoH...but mainly CUL and ALC) can take place in battle as support role. Just because they can't get EXP from battle or engage mob doesn't mean they can't take part in battle.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

all i can do is sit back and laugh and say this is what people have been talking about from the first time they mentioned the streamlining of recipes. unless they increase the amount of sp per synth alot of people that just think they hate crafting now are really gonna hate it after the patch.

if you don't believe me just look at weaver.

before with 2 cotton bolls you made 12 yarn...it takes 4 yarn to make 3 cloth. that means 2 cotton bolls makes you 9 cloth. that is 9 parts for a finished gear.

after the patch 2 cotton bolls make you 1 yarn....it takes 2 yarn to make one cloth. this means now it is going to take you 4 cotton bolls to make 1 cotton cloth. that gives you one part for a finished gear.

people are looking at the changes and saying ohhhh simplification. if you look at the numbers it will take you 18x the amount of synths to make the same amount of materials. if i can get enough materials for a grind today in 1 hour you will be working for 18 hours after the patch to get the same amount of materials.

unless they boost the sp given per synth to 10x what it is now i am really going to feel sorry for everyone that didn't get their crafts ranked before.

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What you forget to mention is that items will also require much less materials to synth. So instead of using 9 cloth to make the front, back, neck, sleeves, and then finally the cotton tunic, you'll just need 1 cloth to make 1 tunic.

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Originally Posted by Technolust

What you forget to mention is that items will also require much less materials to synth. So instead of using 9 cloth to make the front, back, neck, sleeves, and then finally the cotton tunic, you'll just need 1 cloth to make 1 tunic.

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yeah, they use alot less materials like needing to get 2 dodore wings instead of 1, right? like needing 36 cotton bolls instead of 1, right? like the shards to do 27 synths instead of 4, right? those same amount of materials were already in game beforehand,by making parts, and actually used less than the finished items now will.

since 1.18 came out i've capped 4 crafting classes not to mention the other sp i have been getting. if you cap 4 crafts in the same length of time after the patch then you can prove me wrong. you won't though because you will use an excuse.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i would imagine they would be or else no item in the game at that point in time would have any value. i was looking at like lumber will be automatically considered nq items and even if it was a +3 lumber it would only count as a nq mat on the new synths. since it is a nq mat regardless of the hq before the update you would never be able to hq the craft with (dated) materials.

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What I'm thinking is they said "Items that are crafted using pre-1.19 recipes have had "Dated" added", so if we turn the raptor skin into raptor leather right now, they may change our "Raptor Leather" into "Dated Raptor Leather" after 1.19 patch. In this case, we won't be able to use "Dated Raptor Leather" on new recipes. It doesn't matter is +3 or nq, we won't be able to use it anyway.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, they use alot less materials like needing to get 2 dodore wings instead of 1, right? like needing 36 cotton bolls instead of 1, right? like the shards to do 27 synths instead of 4, right? those same amount of materials were already in game beforehand,by making parts, and actually used less than the finished items now will.

since 1.18 came out i've capped 4 crafting classes not to mention the other sp i have been getting. if you cap 4 crafts in the same length of time after the patch then you can prove me wrong. you won't though because you will use an excuse.

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Whats the hurry to reach cap if the markets are currently dead. The changes are to try and revive it. I dont care if it takes me an extra month or 2 to reach cap as long as i can sell things again.

From the translation thread. This should clear up some misinformation being spread in this thread.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post360545

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Originally Posted by Xeno

There are loads of new weapons/gear in there. I wonder if this is like every craftable item in the game? O_o Also saw some stuff like Mythril Lance, I wonder if there is going to be a level cap increase soon (It's 58 gear in the dats).

Edit: Yeah, a lot of this gear can't be included because they are some cobalt (lvl 68 equip) gear in there. There is no way they would introduce that stuff...

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They can easily lower the levels.

In FFXI the spell Meteor/Comet were in the level 100-200 range for players, now it's in the 94-95 range.

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Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang

From the translation thread. This should clear up some misinformation being spread in this thread.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post360545

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If that's the case they should have said so in the official NA thread, instead of making us find the information from a third-party source.

Now I know things can change after the patch and all that, but I can't help but worry about my ongoing process of leveling crafts.

The people who say things like "2 bolls into 1 yarn is ok, we'll skill up with yarn synth in stead of what we're making now, no biggie!" must have absolutely no clue what they're talking about. And this is just one example.

As a player who just recently returned to the game after around 10 months break, I feel really bad. Because in stead of being away from the game I could've kept on crafting and I wouldn't have to worry about leveling them now. Having all crafts somewhere between R10 and 30 sure felt like a good start somewhere back in october 2010, but now it just feels I'm going to have some hard times ahead.

I guess the best bet for me would be to use all of my gil on good crafting mats that can still be used til 1.20 and level my crafts with them til my eyes bleed.

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Originally Posted by lenn1

Whats the hurry to reach cap if the markets are currently dead. The changes are to try and revive it. I dont care if it takes me an extra month or 2 to reach cap as long as i can sell things again.

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because i heard about this patch and expected just about exactly what we are getting. a good majority of my server have been doing strictly crafting and gathering since the updates because we were very disappointed in the new battle system and this very same reason. i capped mine because it will be the only battle classes that need to come to me later for gear. since it will take them longer to catch up that's just longer they will buy stuff.

granted, i make a ton of finished item and toss it the majority of the time, but i am glad i got them done. i'll finish the last few crafts and my doh's this update and i will be setup to do battle once they get this disaster of a system in game now completed. they did say 1.20 or 1.21.

edit: btw the wards aren't dead now. i still make a few hundred k daily off my retainers. guess you are doing that wrong too.

Has someone alrady answered about "the items that will no longer be used" question? I mean there was stuff on there like gold ingot and items that dont even exist in game. Other things like ogre horn dont make any damn sense.. if they are revising the recipe for horn glue to still use ogre horn then why remove the orge horn in he future?

Somethings just arent adding up...