the new trial is too hard

It does require people to know what to do.

The first one I queued into was a failed one with 15 mins left and people bailing left and right.

The second one, we killed it after 2 wipes. First attempt, most of us didn't know what we were doing. Second attempt we almost made it. Third attempt, we smooth out the remaining rough edges and manage to drop the boss.

Very fortunate that there were some there who knew what to do and was willing to explain, in addition to people who could follow instructions and pick it up what needed to be done.

Not a fight that could be derped though.

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Originally Posted by Waffilicious

Yoshida and his team has been working really hard to make the community closer, so he made this fight as a teamwork 101 but most of the people in duty finder are unbendable me my myself type of guys and makes the whole thing a complete nightmare.

I finished this duty 5 times yesterday helping friends and in DF and it just needs teamwork, i can bet that 3.0 will have more teamwork mechanics so people who only think about being the best by themselves are gonna have a really hard time.

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exactly its pretty simple once you work out whos gonna do what.. ive cleared it 7 times now helping fc members n friends add the fact theres video guides appearing already really dont understand why people are saying this is hard lol

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

When the towers are missing its a wipe, main damage is coming from them - try it with cannons alone (good luck!)

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If your team communicates its very easy and nothing like towers missing happens is it so truly "hard" to listen o.O when your team says when boss does X move use snares( omg its coil difficult =O fyi that's sarcasm )

Are them loots be any gud?

I did a trial roulette today and ended up in-progress where the first tank bailed and the 2nd tank was offline. Nobody had cleared it but me. Past the 2nd gate and boss at 85%+.

We still won.

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You should not even be near Vishap, let alone the adds.

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I have to be or else I can't heal people. The adds often come after me, too.

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I just don't understand this logic at all. So quick to quit?

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I didn't say I was quitting. I just think that unless this trial gets nerfed there's going to be a ton of people who don't make it, for the same sort of reason that things like T5/T9 have been roadblocks for many people for a while. I think it's tuned a bit too highly for storyline content, much like how Thornmarch was at initial release.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

I have to be or else I can't heal people. The adds often come after me, too.



I didn't say I was quitting. I just think that unless this trial gets nerfed there's going to be a ton of people who don't make it, for the same sort of reason that things like T5/T9 have been roadblocks for many people for a while. I think it's tuned a bit too highly for storyline content, much like how Thornmarch was at initial release.

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I dont think it will be a problem for new people.
As they would have to get past the Chrysalis trial first, which posses a much bigger issue.

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Originally Posted by Aeyis

I dont think it will be a problem for new people.
As they would have to get past the Chrysalis trial first, which posses a much bigger issue.

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that was harder then steps of faith in my opinion lol wasnt cringe worthy hard but still

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I dont think it will be a problem for new people.
As they would have to get past the Chrysalis trial first, which posses a much bigger issue.

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Uhh, Chrysalis is far easier compared to this one. Way less that's going on, and what you have to do is a lot clearer. (IMO that was a fight that was tuned about right for storyline.) Maybe you had a harder time with it but I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of players won't.

I've never had a single group wipe more than once in Chrysalis, and that was generally due to finding out there were people that didn't know what to do in the 20% phase because the game doesn't tell you there's a newbie.

Once my party got the mechanics down, the difficulty felt just right. The main issue everyone's having is no one working together tightly or communicating properly.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Once my party got the mechanics down, the difficulty felt just right. The main issue everyone's having is no one working together tightly or communicating properly.

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exactly this ^ no proper communication its destined to be a fail.. take time at the start to assign ppl roles cannons, dragon killer.. generally on my runs the cannon ppl do the snares aswell since they are already there but if every1 does the job they are assigned its pretty simple trial

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Uhh, Chrysalis is far easier compared to this one. Way less that's going on, and what you have to do is a lot clearer. (IMO that was a fight that was tuned about right for storyline.) Maybe you had a harder time with it but I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of players won't.

I've never had a single group wipe more than once in Chrysalis, and that was generally due to finding out there were people that didn't know what to do in the 20% phase because the game doesn't tell you there's a newbie.

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It has a fair amount of one shot abilities, and requires a bit of tactics. It was easier for you at the time because you likely went in with a group that knew things, a party finder group or similar. I recently did it with 7 people new to the fight, and one that only knew it so-so, as well as a completely new group. It was a fair bit challenging.

The reason you never had more then 1 wipe is because a) your group knew what to do b) overgearing, and c) pf.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Maybe you had a harder time with it but I can pretty much guarantee that the majority of players won't.

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Im actually quite a decent player. And from my experiences I can guarantee you are wrong. And I base that on recent Chrysalis runs with nearly only new players in it. When Heavensward hits the players that will be needing to do this will be new to the fight. Depending on levels/stats they might not overgear either.

Chrysalis requires fight knowledge + decent healers.
This new trial on the other hand doesnt need healers, doesnt even really need tanks. Altho it still require fight knowledge, its far harder to wipe there, tbh.


In my steppes group I wasnt even assigned on the cannons, neither of the healers were. (or tanks) Yet we still got it down easily. And there was nothing to heal either. Tanks never took damage. Only people that took damage were the ones that stood under a foot or something. In which case NP, just respawn and come back.

The biggest problem as far as I can tell (after 1 wipe rage quitters/disbanders) is people that mark 'E' when queuing up, when they don't understand a word of english, and nor does any of their other 'F' or 'D' buddies. Hells, there appears to be no attempt to communicate amongst themselves either.

/NightwastedinDFrantover :D

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Uhh, Chrysalis is far easier compared to this one. Way less that's going on, and what you have to do is a lot clearer.

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Huh? Chrysalis has mechanics that you have to figure out on your own.

Figuring out Steps of Faith only requires reading what the NPCs are telling you. They instruct you on every single thing.

way to difficult... hate this run pretty much (I had to do this 2x >_> I have only 2 chars)
Its on my list on "doing this just 1x and never again" same for the hoodie guy.
Whenever I have them by "roulete". I leave at once and take my 30mins punishment.

Also.. these hard runs dont belong in trails roulete...

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It has a fair amount of one shot abilities, and requires a bit of tactics. It was easier for you at the time because you likely went in with a group that knew things, a party finder group or similar. I recently did it with 7 people new to the fight, and one that only knew it so-so, as well as a completely new group. It was a fair bit challenging.

The reason you never had more then 1 wipe is because a) your group knew what to do b) overgearing, and c) pf.

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Nope. Done it several times, often times with newbs, never with PF, it was still a relatively trouble-less win every single time. It is simply an easier and simpler fight, with far less STUFF going on that makes it easier to actually figure out what's happening and what to do.

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Huh? Chrysalis has mechanics that you have to figure out on your own.

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Not very many, and most of them are way more intuitive.

Orbs give me a stacking debuff if I eat the same kind? Wow, that's a lot like Angra Mainyu, maybe I shouldn't do that!
Meteors destroy the party if someone doesn't stand under them? Wow, that's a lot like Xande/Cloud of Darkness, maybe the tanks should eat them!
Big meteor wipes the party if we take too long? Wow, that's a lot like almost every single primal fight, maybe DPS should focus the one target in the room down!

About the only thing that may have required explanation was the fact that the Extend status increases buff duration if you pop buffs BEFORE you enter the rift, and not after. After explaining this, groups usually have no trouble winning. Tanks can buff/sprint up and eat meteors with no problem, and DPS generally do a lot better on the tear.

This thread had me worried about getting past this trial since i have limited time to play this week. I just 1 shot it in DF. Not a single wipe. Though we had someone who organized everything before we started and assigned roles and explained mechanics which helped alot. So even with 4 or 5 people saying it was their first try we had no problems. Though i have no plans to ever do it again. I can see how an unorganized party would have alot of trouble with this and i don't feel like dealing with that.

If you want to farm commendations this would probably be a good way to do it. Queue up and have a macro explaining everything. After the clear watch the commendations roll in.

I had multiple DF groups fail this, will have to try again.

I agree it's not hard, it's just that you do have to have at _least_ half the people pay attention and do the mechanics. And I was unable to find a group that could manage that.

I just did it for the first time and failed because time ran out and we didn't have time to retry even tho we almost had it, down to 1%
the fight isn't hard, it's very poorly designed.

First off missing those harpoons or sneers seems to be a big issue, from what I was told missing one almost ensures a wipe, so if you miss the first one you are doomed yet you have to trudge through the whole damn fight which is scripted and runs on its own time.

Second, maybe we need practice I dunno
but it seems some of the ads go wherever even if they're with red hate on me, a tank
it's also hard to pick up the ads since the ads are gray or other dark colors and such and they're difficult to pinpoint, not just for me but it seems others i talked to have this issue a bit.

It's not a difficult fight
just a very...I dunno time consuming one, it runs on its own time and it seems one mess up can cost the entire fight potentially tho i could be wrong on this.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

First off missing those harpoons or sneers seems to be a big issue, from what I was told missing one almost ensures a wipe, so if you miss the first one you are doomed yet you have to trudge through the whole damn fight which is scripted and runs on its own time.

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Didn't even get to the third one when I beat it, so you can definitely miss one.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

I just did it for the first time and failed because time ran out and we didn't have time to retry even tho we almost had it, down to 1%
the fight isn't hard, it's very poorly designed.

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I couldn't disagree harder.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Didn't even get to the third one when I beat it, so you can definitely miss one.

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Thanks
good to know, because my PUG said if we miss one we're dommed

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

Thanks
good to know, because my PUG said if we miss one we're dommed

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PUGs.

Where your DPS in IL130 gear deals 150-200DPS lel.

There is a significant difference in speed and the leeway for error depending on who are assigned to do what. I can't understand groups who throw 2DPS to the cannons and another DPS to the Dragonslayer. Just throw 1 DPS and 1 healer to the cannon and let the other tank do the Dragonslayer while your other 3 DPS wreck on the boss to make things better.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

Second, maybe we need practice I dunno
but it seems some of the ads go wherever even if they're with red hate on me, a tank
it's also hard to pick up the ads since the ads are gray or other dark colors and such and they're difficult to pinpoint, not just for me but it seems others i talked to have this issue a bit.

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First, that's how enemies work in this game. If an enemy has an ability queued up, it will use that ability before switching targets. Watch the Biasts next time when you grab threat on them. They'll turn red, run to the cannon, use Levinshower, and then run back to you. The best thing to do is to stun them, because that will cancel their ability and then they will go right on you.

Second, the adds spawn in the same place and the same time every time. The left/right feet, and by the tail. Doesn't matter if you can see them or not, get over there and flash or overpower.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

but it seems some of the ads go wherever even if they're with red hate on me, a tank
it's also hard to pick up the ads since the ads are gray or other dark colors and such and they're difficult to pinpoint, not just for me but it seems others i talked to have this issue a bit.

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If this is referring to the last add, the SV boss, it ignores threat tables. I've seen people attack it until the time ran out and still not realize it was ignoring threat tables, even after having the last boss in SV (the exact same monster) dedicated to this gimmick. I've put a big X mark over it and people are still a mile behind the boss trying to grab it. This is how dumb pugs are, they don't pick up things and the obvious goes right over their heads.

The group I cleared with noticed stuff like this straight away and corrected their mistakes the next time. Most players do not learn from mistakes and do the same dumb stuff over and over again, and that's why most groups fail.

People quit way too fast too. The party I got from duty queue voted to quit it after only trying it two times... It's a new duty, obviously it's gonna take a bit of time to figure out.

Last night's run I said that one of the tanks can just man the Dragonslayer, then one of the tanks asked

"Wait, if he mans the Dragonslayer, who's going to tank the adds?"

Then I realized that he has been trying to tank Vishap for the past two wipes lol :rolleyes:

just wasted another almost 90 minutes on this BS
if this is what the expansion is going to be like i'll think twice about getting it

I don't care how well you hardcore players can do this, to me, this is terrible waste of time

Honestly it just baffles me how people think that all 'casual' content should be faceroll. This was the hardest story fight in a while and it was only because people are used to tank and spank rather than dealing with real mechanics. It is not even close to being like coil so take the time to see what's going on and overcome it.

You are playing a game, the game gives you a bunch of tasks to complete and if it's practically impossible to fail then what are you actually doing? Not really anything. The entertainment from games is meant to be overcoming challenges with a set of rules in place.
There is nothing wrong with being casual with your game time but it's not a real excuse for not doing any kind of challenge. It's just a matter of how you spend that time.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Honestly it just baffles me how.....

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to each their own
to me if the game forces me to run something for 20 minutes just to fail and try again over minor mistakes that's bad game design

180 minutes with no progress whatsoever? Dude, I'm neither made out of time nor money
I love my game and I love doing stuff on my own time, but here the fight dictates the time I do not have

It's probably the hardest story fight in the game. But only because it requires coordination. Chrysalis had a much tighter dps check going on.

Honestly, if you take a moment at the beginning of the fight to set up assignments, it's really very easy. There's no rng in the fight except what that Stone Vigil HM boss does, but whatever.. stun him with the cannons and he isn't really that threatening.

Also keep in mind, the fight has been available for under 48 hours. Not being able to demonstrate total mastery of it and have a team capable of executing it in their sleep is not terribly unusual. I'm quite happy to see a different kind of encounter where strategy is more important than brute force, and I hope to see more encounters like that in the future.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

180 minutes with no progress whatsoever? Dude, I'm neither made out of time nor money
I love my game and I love doing stuff on my own time, but here the fight dictates the time I do not have

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I can agree that making you wait the full fight when you know you can't win is BS but making the content challenging isn't, if you lack the time to learn fights to overcome obstacles then you probably don't have time for videogames either. Coils only take 2 to 3 hours tops if your group is good enough, this is very accessible as the only thing stopping players from going further is how well they work together and for each role to do it's bit. Just takes practice and the will to learn. If you aren't doing anything that requires thinking or even a small amount of skill then what do you find fun about video games because it can't be the actual act of beating said game?

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

to each their own
to me if the game forces me to run something for 20 minutes just to fail and try again over minor mistakes that's bad game design

180 minutes with no progress whatsoever? Dude, I'm neither made out of time nor money
I love my game and I love doing stuff on my own time, but here the fight dictates the time I do not have

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Do note that this is only the 2nd, or 3rd day, of the patch only, depending on your timezone.

If you don't want to waste your time to wipe, as for FC help, or just wait till next week.

It's not even bad game design. It was cheesy as hell. Chryslias was technically a more difficult content because you actually need to know how to DPS decently at the very least.

Steps of Faith? All you need to do is pray that your real adds, the 7 of them, aren't complete idiots who can't understand basic instructions which is essentially

1) Tank the adds under the boss, where his under belly is, where his hitbox is.
2) 2 dudes to fire the damn cannon at the boss's hitbox area to dmg both adds and boss
3) The same 2 dudes doing the cannon to snare the boss (and of course do the stun)
4) Dragonslayer dude fire the missle
5) Rinse and repeat

As long as you do the above properly, your DPSes can just press whatever button they like and still deal enough damage to kill the boss in the end. How difficult is this?

It's really not that bad. Just learn from the wipes, talk to your group about mistakes calmly, learn from them = profit. I didn't look a guide at all going into it blind and did well. Although healers have it pretty easy in this fight. i found myself DPSing 80% of the time to try to help with the check.

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Originally Posted by Parodine

It's really not that bad. Just learn from the wipes, talk to your group about mistakes calmly, learn from them = profit. I didn't look a guide at all going into it blind and did well. Although healers have it pretty easy in this fight. i found myself DPSing 80% of the time to try to help with the check.

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The amount of healing required is pretty low. My clear run had 2 scholars, I was one of them, and I was also DPSing most of the time.

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The amount of healing required is pretty low.

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I still find these sorts of comments baffling, because the party is always getting their asses kicked whenever I try this.

I seriously wonder about the gamer generation of today... it's almost as if a majority of players go and buy the latest game then before even opening it up to play it they are online looking for guides and cheat codes so they can burn thru it in a day. This fight is not hard or difficult, it only is if people make it that way. 1.0's final fight versus Nael was a heck of a lot harder than this fight. If you're having trouble beating it in DF then why not set up a PF and ask for help from people? Seriously how anti-social are most of the players in this community? Do people not have LS's or a FC with people that can help each other out? There's plenty of helpful people on each server, just throw up a PF and ask if you can't get a full party from FC+LS people for the remaining spots. Then at least you can all discuss the fight before even entering on what to do/roles to play.

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Originally Posted by ShinigamiKiba

just wasted another almost 90 minutes on this BS
if this is what the expansion is going to be like i'll think twice about getting it

I don't care how well you hardcore players can do this, to me, this is terrible waste of time

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Sad part is, it's not even hard :/ it's just idiots who don't listen, even when they say "ok" when you tell them what to do -.- Tired of this BS for tonight, been at it all day and haven't gotten closer than 30%. I'm all for more difficult fights or ones that are more engaging than "tank and spank", but apparently the majority of this game aren't and expect to just mindlessly plow through this.

What really irritates me isn't the difficulty of the fight, but the difficulty of my party mates. I expect people to be new, I do. I explain things, knowing that they would likely have to see how things run firstly before actually learning it.

First attempt fails miserably.Party says they understand now.
Assignments are reestablished

Second attempt.
Nobody snares. Adds aren't dying. Dragonslayer prematurely fires.
We go over the issues.

Third attempt.
Everybody does their roles normally. Boss is at 45% at the end. One member leaves. GG.


EVERYtime. "Have to put up a Party Finder group"
I tried. I'm on Zalera. In 56 minutes, I amassed 2 other persons. 2. Only 2 others. 6pm est, 2 others. Why can't I get a single competent group of individuals??

Look
we're not all gamer master game wizards here
some of us are regular folk

so don't preach to me about gamer culture of today like some guy up there said

im not a gamer
i just love games a lot and love this game to pieces