Revelations from Patch 2.55 [SPOILERS]

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Originally Posted by Alberel

This would let SE twist that knife in the feels even more as well...

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As high as my hopes were for the Sultana's future, utilizing death for emotion should be expensive, so (from a storytelling perspective) this is about the only she's just mostly dead revelation that I wouldn't think was spineless. If, somehow, Nanamo Ul Namo truly did die that day and they pull some shenanigans just to kick you in the gut again, I wouldn't be opposed, I suppose. Imho, most of the other options would be... a storyteller what isn't fit to rut, if ye get me meaning.

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Originally Posted by lololink

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
6. Dark Knight
7. Justice!

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You're the warrior Eorzea deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt you. Because you can take it. Because you're not our warrior. You're a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/im...t_concept1.jpg

Perfect set up, SE. 10/10 would get betrayed and kicked around again. :p

So, I was digging through 2.4 patch stuff on xivdb when I saw something that caught my eye:

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Originally Posted by Alphinaud

Captain Ilberd sends his regards, by the way. He attends to the interrogation of Eline Roaille in Ul'dah even as we speak.

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Of course they're consorting with Garleans. . .

The more I think of it, the more I'm pointing blame at the Garleans. I wonder of ilberd is working for them in exchange for Ala Mhigo's "freedom" (which won't come even if all of Eorzea becomes theirs). Lololito is probably just a greedy pawn, like the person from the ninja quests (name escapes me), following whoever seems strongest...

Would explain a bit why the Scions would be framed and removed; we're probably the Garleans biggest threat

Scions, the Garleans biggest threat? Not really. The Empire does not care a lot about all those primaes. Gaius was all about Ultima Weapon - but well, mainly to destroy the primaes once and for all.

The Scions ware a very small group, as seen not even able to have a real chance against a few Brass Blades and the Empire is much, MUCH stronger. If the Empire even cares about them, it's mainly because they are some kind of link between the three cities and by framing them, this could be bad or even break the alliance. The Scions are a main thread for Primaes and the Ascians, not the Empire.

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

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We did spearhead the operation that put an end to the Garlean invasion, though. If that doesn't raise our threat level then I don't really know what would. (Note that the Garleans are likely unaware that we have had our Blessing of Light, which is what helped us triumph over Ultima Weapon, sealed away. If they found out about that then we would likely be in much bigger trouble if they found some weapon that could produce similarly devastating results, until Middy's recovered enough to serve that purpose.)

Never underestimate the power to rally people and nations.

Remember, the three city states were about to surrender to Gaius when we showed up, gave them hope and enacted a plan that wiped out their leadership and destroyed the Ultima weapon.

That is what is feared. Not our pitifully small numbers, our power to sway the people.

Also some food for thought. Nanamo was fully aware how corrupted uldah had become. The place is filled with traitors and those that side with the monetarist. And rooted very deep in organisations.
So I have a feeling that this has all been done in a plan to make all those hidden faces/people expose themself in the open. Basically an attempt to clean up all the trash.

I'm still of the same opinion that Nanamo was very much aware of the assassination attempt and tried to use it in the favor or rebuilding uldah.

Again, I'm not in denial. I really couldn't care less if she's alive or dead. I cared little for her lol. But ever since the cutscene where she talked in private with both nation leaders. I had this feeling that she had this plan. I doubt it's easy to just proclaim that you're going to disband a monarchy and have everyone go. "Oh yeah. No problem. Let's accept this with no questions asked." She was up to something and she was visibly struggling to follow it through.

I frankly don't understand why people keep saying that it would be cheap of S-E to play the "pretend dead card". In my opinion both options are cliché, be her dead or alive. Both ways have been done to death(no pun intended lol) in books, stories, movies, games and so on. Again, my vision of this is based of the feeling that Nanamo gave me.

Nanamo's "death" by drinking a glass of wine also reminded me of the manga "Berserk". Where Griffith was aimed to be poisoned as well by poison in his wine. Which ended in the thing being replaced by a drug that faked his death. I'm just saying, considering that the Dark Knight has been admittedly inspired by that self same manga.

Food for thought. And I'm the first one willing to admit that I might end up wrong. I just have this really certain feeling that I'm somewhat right.

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Originally Posted by Vydos

I frankly don't understand why people keep saying that it would be cheap of S-E to play the "pretend dead card". In my opinion both options are cliché, be her dead or alive. Both ways have been done to death(no pun intended lol) in books, stories, movies, games and so on.

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I can't speak for everyone that's said it, but when I said it, what I meant was not that the "pretend death card" itself is bad, but that playing it in this specific situation is clumsy. SE wanted to evoke emotion. They wanted that Empire Strikes Back totally-screwed-with-a-chance-of-hope ending (and good for them, ARR has been all about hope and the success of a dying game's rebirth and rise. Who's really expecting the last 10 minutes of that to suddenly be, "It's gone. It's all gone. You're screwed. No one's safe." <credits roll>) BUT, if you want that from the ending, and you choose to achieve it with death, you should have to pay for that death with the character's future. There's nothing wrong with with the "pretend death card," but playing it there, at the ending, to evoke emotion, and following it up by revealing it was a Disney Death that helps everything on the path to hunky dory by drawing out the traitors would be, in my humble opinion, a black mark on the rather decent main scenario structure so far.

Every time I explain this, I feel I get it a little bit clearer, so I hope that helps, lol.

Again, though, this does not reflect on my predictions of what I think actually happened (which I haven't really finished developing yet). There's far too much possible foreshadowing to claim "I think it's better if she's dead, so my theory is that she's dead." For all I know, she's going to pop out of a roast dodo in the middle of her own funeral and have the Maelstrom and Twin Adders arrest everyone who was just getting comfortable loudly expressing that they're not down with democracy.

It's also the first really full on "Big character death" it would be unwise to undo this one, it would make everyone doubt every death from now on.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

For all I know, she's going to pop out a roast dodo in the middle of her own funeral and have the Maelstrom and Twin Adders arrest everyone who was just getting comfortable loudly expressing that they're not down with democracy.

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I lol'ed at this part. Always a pleasure to read your replies Moose.

And you strike a good point. I tend to not hate when a writer decides to kill off a character(s). Even if it's one that I love.
But reading your post now made me realise why there are so many different opinions about her "dead". And it seems to all boil down on different groups of people and how they prefer their stories and have taken the "signs" in all the cutscenes.

The not death group:

- Using myself for example: I took the cutscenes as signs that Nanamo had something in mind. Hence why I'm thinking that the pretend dead card, adds more to the story. Because I'm at the same time also a lover of mindgame stories. Where one group tries to outsmart/outplay the other one. Must be the reason why I still think the story will play out like that. Not to mention, I didn't feel saddened at all when she died.

But I also blame S-E for that. The scene felt -very- lacking (in my opinion) for an important character's death scene. Compared to Moenbryda that made me shed a manly tear. My reaction at the moment of Nanamo's death was "Well...that happened." All I saw was a lalafel drinking wine, choking and dropping on the floor. Before being interrupted by guards. And no 100% confirmation of her dead. Not to mention the entire. "You can't see her. But her dead has been confirmed by her handmaiden." Who just shakes her head.

- Then you have people who simply don't want to see her die and are basically in denial. And tend to shout how bad the story is because their important character died. Which S-E most likely wanted to achieve. So props to them for achieving it.


The death group

- Those that believe that playing the pretend dead card actually brings little good to the story and would kill the last scene (again no pun intended). I also believe that those are the people that felt a more emotional connection to that scene. Or those that prefer a story to pan out that way. (Like how I prefer the other option)

- Those that willingly accept her dead. And probably a small group who are happy she's gone...


And it might also be because this is S-E and Final fantasy we're talking about. I don't remember in any game where a person's 100% death scene was so...I can't really find a right word for it. But let's go with vague, lacking. Off course if S-E doesn't really think she's that important, S-E could just kill her off right there and then. But I doubt that, considering with Moenbryda that appeared and got disposed in just a few patches.

(ps: I love this type of discussions. It keeps me busy while I'm at work lol)

Just my opinion based on what you guys are discussing. If she really turns out to be alive, it probable will be on a time where no one would expect that she would come back.

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Originally Posted by Vydos

Using myself for example: I took the cutscenes as signs that Nanamo had something in mind. Hence why I'm thinking that the pretend dead card, adds more to the story. Because I'm at the same time also a lover of mindgame stories. Where one group tries to outsmart/outplay the other one. Must be the reason why I still think the story will play out like that. Not to mention, I didn't feel saddened at all when she died.

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The trouble is everyone is attributing her quiet brooding to the impending assassination after the fact. There's actually a much simpler explanation for why she was clearly worried about something: she was about to abdicate the throne and knew it would bring chaos to the city. The entire reason she invites you to her private chambers is to try and gain your support for her decision and to ask you to help Raubahn in handling the transfer of power.

I'm not sure why so many people read her body language to be that she planned to fake her own death when there's a much simpler explanation for it. The fact that she didn't even tell Raubahn should be proof enough that she had no such plans, in my opinion, as she would never do something like that to him.

She was brooding because she was about to blow ul'dah up with her decision to hand her power over. I don't see the logic in her faking or forcing her own death. If she did it for the greater good, there are simply too many unchecked variables, your character could have been killed, and i doubt she would have intended for Rabahun to go crazy and near get himself killed. Then, there's the fact you get framed for it. None of that adds up. As for the Scions, Yda and Pap are my favorites. I don't care who dies, but they can't remove those two, the comic relief, from the game.

...Speaking specifically of Yda, she has been getting alot of independent foreshadowing recently. The whole thing with Moenbryda, the argument about her face visor, and her old one getting destroyed, leads me to believe at the very least Yda is about to receive a more serious character overhaul in the future.

I also found it interesting they decided to tease what her face looked like, but then I realized i really don't want to know what her face looks like.

I thought the Scions or someone in the scions was supposed to "get more story" to them come 3.0? I don't think they're dead, they're most likely in gaol.

I'm a little curious. Is the fact that Ilberd isn't being brought up on charges because he confessed to people (we) consider to be untrustworthy or people who are 'supposed' to be considered untrustworthy (by Ul'dah/public.) That is, he confessed to Lolorito and corrupt Braves and Brass Blades (so we consider them untrustworthy). He confessed to Raubahn (in gaol so to the public his words are suspect), or us & Scions (who are under suspicion so our words are suspect).

I'm of the mind Nanamo is dead. For her to not be... that scene was gut wrenching to watch when she was dying from the poison. She'd also have some shitty planning to do it and pretty much -know- it would shine suspicions on you, the WoL, the only other person in the room with you other than the handmaiden. She -knows- that it would appear bad for the WoL. Why?

Y'shtola and Papalymo were the two I heard mentioned on the Fanfest panel. Technically though, Y'shtola's background we could learn from her sister, who I expect will move to Ishgard for the summoner quests if nothing else.

I do think the Scions are alive though. Papalymo and Yda didn't go down in our sight. Last we saw of them they were unleashing a big attack. Plus Papalymo's talk hardly was of one about to go down. If Y'shtola and Thancred are alive I suspect it will be due to whatever reason Minfilia turned back.

Nanamo is the only one Im pretty sure is dead. The rest though might be imprisoned. Either way they are scattered, betrayed and hunted which still puts the WoL in the worst situation s/he has been in for a long time.

Ilberd "confessed" in the presence of his master (Lololito, who would have known) and his framed enemies (Scions, who were about to be captured and thus removed from play) to enrage Raubahn into sloppy attacks.

We weren't supposed to escape, so it wouldn't have mattered what we knew. But the WoL (who was tied up at the time) did escape, and so the Monitorists plans had to change. The people consider us to be the ultimate good, after all, and without us in custody painting us in a bad light is rather hard

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Originally Posted by Vydos

And you strike a good point. I tend to not hate when a writer decides to kill off a character(s). Even if it's one that I love.

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Moenbryda's death upset me at first, since we had just started getting to know her, but seeing the writers continue to handle it respectfully even when they could have dropped it after the funeral at least keeps her alive in spirit. And Nanamo's death set the entire expansion in motion, not to mention that however it actually plays out, Raubahn has become a pretty permanent reminder that it happened.

The only (symbolic) death I'm still mad at the writers about is one that happened in a (yes, technically optional) context neighboring the MS, in a way that pretty much absolved them of any obligation to mention him again. It could still happen, but it could also more than easily not, which is the entire source of my frustration on that point.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

She faked it.

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I could get behind this theory; it all seems to fit in a nice story-telling way. However, I can't support it 100% because I don't think Nanamo is smart enough to pull it off. She's too naive and a bit dull, so I don't think she could have come up with a fake death on her own at least.

I don't see why she would fake her own death before abdicating the throne.

However, I believe that she was given a poison to make her unconscious indefinately

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Originally Posted by myahele

I don't see why she would fake her own death before abdicating the throne.

However, I believe that she was given a poison to make her unconscious indefinately

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See, I don't mind the Somnus/Eternal Sleep theory, as it is somehow sadder than her just dying.

I mentioned this in the Official spoiler thread but it hurts to much I have to share it again. I ended up getting 2 platinum cards for this last TT tournament. When I open them up, I find both cards are Nanamo cards. WHY SE WHYYYYYY? /twistthatdaggerrealgood

I don't think this has been discussed yet, but who could this person be? Blue-eyed Hyuran male in Ishgardian knight armor, standing next to Iceheart. My first thought is that maybe this is Elidibus' host, but that's more of a wild speculation :P

link

I think it's just an heretic spy, that managed to get Iceheart to the barrier so that she could break it.

I wonder if Ice Blue eyes are a sign of tempering from Iceheart? Similar to how the Tempered Slyphs are purple in color.

Don't think that Y'shtola was calling a spirit bomb, I personally think that was the Ultima spell she conjured.
(Also - Newsflash - Papalymo dropped the AURA spell on Yda - Personally hoping that shows up since we haven't seen it since FFXIII.)
I think Haurchefant was being very Ishgardian at that moment.

As for Limsa, Gridinia, and even the Flames in Ul'Dah - Go talk the the commanders at the the GC's and you will get brought up on that. As for the Admiral - talk to her lift attendant (there are two lifts there don't forget) and talk to the escort to the Lotus Sands and/or the guy next to him to get some info on the Seedseerer's position too.

I expect Aymeric will either put us to work, or will do all he can to help clear our names. If not dig up Teleji for sheer crap he said before...well...splitting from the story...

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Originally Posted by Aoxaviar

Don't think that Y'shtola was calling a spirit bomb, I personally think that was the Ultima spell she conjured.

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Whatever it was, it was most certainly NOT Ultima. Ultima is a plot point in FFXIV, and would have probably blown up the entirety of Ul'dah (see Praetorium).

Besides, isn't Ultima usually Black Magic, not White?

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Originally Posted by gamesmart

Whatever it was, it was most certainly NOT Ultima. Ultima is a plot point in FFXIV, and would have probably blown up the entirety of Ul'dah (see Praetorium).

Besides, isn't Ultima usually Black Magic, not White?

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Ultima is non-elemental but usually categorized as black magick. If anything, Y'shtola is casting Holy.. her body movements and the spell look rather familiar.

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

Ultima is non-elemental but usually categorized as black magick. If anything, Y'shtola is casting Holy.. her body movements and the spell look rather familiar.

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Given that our PC is technically the only WHM, I'm more inclined to think that what Y'shtola used was simply a giant aether bomb (...which, then again, is probably the same thing that Holy does, but in a different fashion) from channeling a pretty significant amount of aether. She has demonstrated the capacity for channeling aether in unique ways, on account of being Sharlayan, so this likely is just another form of those abilities.

That said, that aether bomb might explain why Hydaelyn suddenly spoke to Minfilia, as the sheer amount of aether concentrated in that location might have allowed the (probably still weak) Mothercrystal to briefly communicate with her. Though that doesn't explain why Hydaelyn only chose to speak to Minfilia...

Someone on reddit posted something interresting about the cutscene with Raubahn in the cell. Some people in the comments are dismissing it as a fake, or a bug. But, I think there might be something more to it.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

Someone on reddit posted something interresting about the cutscene with Raubahn in the cell. Some people in the comments are dismissing it as a fake, or a bug. But, I think there might be something more to it.

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It's not fake, I saw it when I rewatched the cutscene, but not when I first saw it

Also, from reddit, someone posted this (this is probably common knowledge to some, but Jenlyns doesnt have this text for non-Paladins)
http://i.imgur.com/iOywHTB.jpg

I wonder if we'll be heading to the Marasaja Pit in 3.0, maybe as a dungeon?

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

I wonder if we'll be heading to the Marasaja Pit in 3.0, maybe as a dungeon?

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I wouldn't take anything off the table, but the Marasaja has been mentioned a few times before. It's where the most violent, dangerous offenders in the Thanalan region are kept. Ququruka of the Black Mage storyline spent a century confined there.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I wouldn't take anything off the table, but the Marasaja has been mentioned a few times before. It's where the most violent, dangerous offenders in the Thanalan region are kept. Ququruka of the Black Mage storyline spent a century confined there.

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Aye, thought I remembered the name, it would make pretty cool dungeon though, breaking in, to free Raubahn, fighting off all the dangerous inmates and such. :D Is it ever mentioned where exactly it is? I can't imagine it being too close to the city of Ul'dah.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

It's not fake, I saw it when I rewatched the cutscene, but not when I first saw it

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I actually noticed it while rewatching the cutscene, too. While I was browsing various forums, I started to wonder why nobody mentioned it, and decided to double-check it. Suddenly; the door was closed again. There is something weird going on with that cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

I actually noticed it while rewatching the cutscene, too. While I was browsing various forums, I started to wonder why nobody mentioned it, and decided to double-check it. Suddenly; the door was closed again. There is something weird going on with that cutscene.

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There might be some kind of trigger at the start or the end of the video that open or close the door and so it changes everytime you watch it.

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Originally Posted by Mholito

Someone on reddit posted something interresting about the cutscene with Raubahn in the cell. Some people in the comments are dismissing it as a fake, or a bug. But, I think there might be something more to it.

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Someone linked a vid of their prison scene: OPEN https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFlj...ature=youtu.be
CLOSED: https://youtu.be/fkGj8G0ZU-Q?t=4m36s
I think it might be a bug, mine was closed. I think the closed is supposed to be the original. Hopefully they will implement a fix for this, since it's a rather big change of story whether or not it's open or closed.

Well, with the new trailer up of heavensward. I'm starting to lean now towards Nanamo being death. And also not craving the entire thing of suddenly appearing alive again. But I will however add, that I then think that they did a poor job on her death. I still don't feel emotional over it at all.

But yes, there's now a big emphasis on nanamo's poisoning and the aftermath. Then again...S-E brought Lion back to life in FFXI later on, where I had preferred her to stay death...

In the Heavensward trailer a few months back we saw a burnt statue similar to what we see in akh afah amphitheater. What surprising is that burnt half was that of a hooded female figure (shiva?)

Now that we know that Iceheart is also looking to get Nighogg's eyes, I wonder if she'll she do something that somehow marks her a "traitor" by Nidhogg and Co. In the end, she wants peace, perhaps she'll use the eye as a bargaining chip?

It'll be quite sad if she also ends up being burned again, but by dragons this time around

http://i.imgur.com/qwPEulb.png

I...didn't read all of the thread, so I'm not sure if this was asked before but...
I just finished the story cutscenes, and I have one important question.

...Where were the Sultansworn during the goddamn banquet? >.>

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Originally Posted by Zelas

I...didn't read all of the thread, so I'm not sure if this was asked before but...
I just finished the story cutscenes, and I have one important question.

...Where were the Sultansworn during the goddamn banquet? >.>

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Put on the sidelines, even in the Uldah intro quest, they were only prominent towards the end, then you never had any quest related to them again.