I'm all for clever localization but please don't just leave out important story.

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Originally Posted by Ulathskullsplitter

This was anticipated by SE and Fernwahles made this post before the patch even released.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2723536

But after reading his reasoning in my opinion he has it backwards. His reasoning is that since dragons live really long lives that they would be more succinct and compact more meaning into single words. But I think it would be the opposite. Live as long as dragons do I think it would make them really verbose and long winded when it comes to speaking. I mean they live so long it's not like they are in a hurry to say what they have to say.

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Entmoot

/10char

There is little give a **** for English Servers, get real. We have poor translations and even worst translation times. Check out how long it is to get live letters translated by SE. It's cool for now but eventually they'll lose their core gamers to it.

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Originally Posted by Rekujin

I feel like the English localization team goes way too far sometimes... the whole pirate-style language with every limsa npc is quite annoying and i don't like how they use that "ye olde english" for every single script... what's wrong with talking normally?

why use "Mayhap" when they could just use "Perhaps" or "Maybe"? it feels like every single character in this game went to the same english school.... spice it up a little please? yes this is a role playing game in a fantasy world but that doesn't mean we should stick to ye olde english for everything, i want to see normal spoken english for some characters.

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The funny thing is that this IS the improved version when it comes to that.
1.0 ye olde speaketh was 100% worse than what you are experiencing now.

When it comes to dragon-speak I do feel like the details and sometimes even the intent of the original text has been lost in these first examples.

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

The important part of reading comprehension is to take into account all of the given source, the EN translation is actually very important to this part. Considering both to be canon to the story: "[...] I remember... and I consent" from the English version is very important here.

"Could it be, you think him special? [...]" - Midgardsormr questions Hydaelyn's decision, he doesn't trust the PC do to him being, you know, one of them Spoken-types.
" [...] Hydaelyn, you wish me to grant him power?" - Midgardsormr recalls what Hydaelyn asked him to do, talking to one's self is a favourite of information tactics writers for game development use

and based on his actions and words after this point, though he does consent to Hydaelyn's wish, he is not going to blindly follow it. Instead he plans to test the PC to make sure he won't misuse the given power.

[EDIT:] I believe made a major flaw in the above, pretty sure Zant can figure it out and I am looking forward to his dissection of it. ~Nyaa Not going to delete it because it is valid assuming 1. Both localizations are canon and 2. both localizations contain similar but still slightly different details in them, which do to lack of information at this point I'm pretty sure is a logical fallacy of some kinds, I pretty sure someone will point it out :3

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I'm not sure which flaw you mean but I'll just go back to my original question since it was never answered.
"You wanna tell me where in the Japanese text that Midgardsormr was asked to give you power? Oh wait, it's not there."

Since you see this entire thread is dedicated to the Japanese translation superiority, since as Parodine puts it the English (yes I'm calling him out since he decided to jump on your bandwagon with the whole "Don't mock him.... /sarcasm" comment)

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Originally Posted by Parodine

It's literally leaving huge chunks of the script out.

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I'm going to need you to tell me something other than

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

the EN translation is actually very important to this part......from the English version is very important here.

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So again, if you want to dissect the real meaning using all translations, that's fine and I'm game for it. However, that doesn't belong in this thread, unfortunately. This thread is solely dedicated to the fact that the Japanese translation is superior and contains so much more information.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

...the fact that the Japanese translation is superior and contains so much more information.

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I don't think the Japanese version is superior to the English version by any stretch (that said, I can only go off of the JP unofficial translation, I don't know how it actually is in Japanese). If anything it reveals too much information in my opinion.

And if you think amount of information is the deciding factor, the amount of information presented in the Japanese version's dialogue is not indicative of it being superior to the English version we received. There's more to writing a story than presenting information to the audience, it's how the writer (or in this case, translator) wants to present it and how it is actually written.

The information is there within the story, just not explicitly stated in the immediate conversation with Midgardsormr. Why? It didn't need to be. All of what is outright stated in the JP version can be inferred in the EN version. Some may think the JP version is better, I'm not trying to argue if it is or isn't. However, it doesn't have the traits of good writing in my opinion (solely judging by the direct translation, as I can't read Japanese).

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Originally Posted by Shougun

I believe the EN version is better story and that the Japanese version would have bored and borderline insulted me. "Oh how weak you are to be insulted" yea yea, jab all you want. It came across like they (Japanese version) didn't trust me to rub two stones together, and I hate those stories. I recognize there is a different sense of clarity, but I wager that the difference was either construct-able information or information that would have came natural per a good story's traits to do so.

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This, right here.

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I don't think the Japanese version is superior to the English version by any stretch (that said, I can only go off of the JP unofficial translation, I don't know how it actually is in Japanese). If anything it reveals too much information in my opinion.

And if you think amount of information is the deciding factor, the amount of information presented in the Japanese version's dialogue is not indicative of it being superior to the English version we received. There's more to writing a story than presenting information to the audience, it's how the writer (or in this case, translator) wants to present it. The information is there within the story, just not explicitly stated in the immediate conversation with Midgardsormr. Why? It didn't need to be.

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I think a big problem might be comparing only what Midgardsormr says directly, and not including what is said and implied by other supporting characters that actually further the information being presented. Nabriales fills in some information that further clarified things, for example (he's cottoned on to what happens and makes an effort to brag about our situation). We'll likely find out other parts of the whole truth in the next section of the story too.

A story isn't made up simply of what a single character says, but what the entire work says which includes other characters and inferred information from surroundings and characters' actions. Just because Midgardsormr doesn't go out of his way to explain every single aspect in great detail (which would go against everything that we know about dragons and their way of speaking) doesn't mean that information is missing. It's just not complete at the same time.

I'd almost expect that the JP version goes out of its way to be over explained (as you seem to imply/agree), and that certain elements of the plot would be repeated again and again in different scenes and possibly by different characters.

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Originally Posted by Themis

I think a big problem might be comparing only what Midgardsormr says directly, and not including what is said and implied by other supporting characters that actually further the information being presented. Nabriales fills in some information that further clarified things, for example (he's cottoned on to what happens and makes an effort to brag about our situation). We'll likely find out other parts of the whole truth in the next section of the story too.

A story isn't made up simply of what a single character says, but what the entire work says which includes other characters and inferred information from surroundings and characters' actions. Just because Midgardsormr doesn't go out of his way to explain every single aspect in great detail (which would go against everything that we know about dragons and their way of speaking) doesn't mean that information is missing. It's just not complete at the same time.

I'd almost expect that the JP version goes out of its way to be over explained (as you seem to imply/agree), and that certain elements of the plot would be repeated again and again in different scenes and possibly by different characters.

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Exactly. If you have played JRPGs you see things repeated often and many times are outright explained at the earliest convenient time. I don't know if that's just how Japanese writing for games is, if it's the translators, if they think the audience is too dumb to put two and two together, or if it's because the target audience is generally in the early/mid teens and may not be able to read between the lines very well (a 13 year old likely won't extract nearly as much out of a literary piece than a 20+ year old). But any way you look at it it comes off like it was a poorly thought out story when the information is presented in a way where the same information just flows out of characters mouths and actions multiple times. (Not to say the stories are bad, but it doesn't make them good.)

I've stated in previous posts that all of that information was implied in the storyline and can be inferred to to put the pieces together. Where is that information? It's from the other character interactions. As you said, the information isn't missing. It's just not complete at the same time. (\Because other character interactions/).

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Originally Posted by File2ish

I don't think the Japanese version is superior to the English version by any stretch (that said, I can only go off of the JP unofficial translation, I don't know how it actually is in Japanese). If anything it reveals too much information in my opinion.

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Exactly. I think the English version is perfect. With just the right amount of teases of information. However the JP translation is, as I've said, literally beating you over the head with the information. Heck they reduced 3-4 lines of the JP translation to "Heh heh heh" because it was so redundant they could!

I seriously can't understand why text written by the original story team with the intention of giving as much explanation for the things that are happening is considered having too much explanation. I really don't understand, maybe people love having secrets kept from them or being lied to or misled. It's no wonder since those same type of people had no issues with other "misinterpretations" like housing prices or all the sudden last second monetization of previously hyped features.

Abridging text is fine especially because Japanese can be rather wordy or awkward if translated literally, it's not fine when the context is changed noticeably, i.e. I'm removing your Blessing because I can and I might be doing it with malicious intentions because I've already judged you and your kind and you're all the same vs I'm doing it as a test for Light/the good side to see if you're worthy of your heroic title and deeds by not making the same mistakes Ishgard keeps making.

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Originally Posted by Zantitrach

Exactly. I think the English version is perfect. With just the right amount of teases of information. However the JP translation is, as I've said, literally beating you over the head with the information. Heck they reduced 3-4 lines of the JP translation to "Heh heh heh" because it was so redundant they could!

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You may think it is perfect, but your analysis leaves much to be desired. Information was lost in the transition, and the very tone of the relationship between player and Midgardsormr has been changed.

Fortunately, I'm down to the formatting part of my own assessment and will be posting it shortly.

Greetings!

Reading through this thread over the weekend and going over it again now, forward progress on the discussion has stopped. There are different opinions, and the same information is being presented again and again on all sides to try to convert people who had a different experience with the storyline and how they interpreted it based on any of a number of factors. Since the discussion is no longer moving forward, and has been directly negative at a number of points, I will be closing the thread.

Feel free to show your support for opinions through the use of the "Like" option. However, to prevent further arguments and the possibility of GM action or removal of the thread, further discussion will not be possible in this thread.

LGM Enkrateia