Dragoon buffs and Ninja nerfs coming Dec 9th in patch 2.45

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

lolwut? i only speak from what little experience i have. but i have never once needed to use Invigorate as a DRG, aside from using AoE's. as a NIN i usually need to use about either half way or 3 quarters of the way through a boss encounter. as a MNK... well they eat through TP like candy. DRG doesn't have high TP consumption.

---

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/category/4/

Hmm, speaking from what little experience you have I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tilgung

Party strength bonus inflating a parse? I don't get why people parse without it. The only content DPS matters in is group play.

---

Dragoons being in a party is a pretty unlikely scenario to begin with

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leonus

I can't tell if you're joking or not...

it really isn't that big of a deal imo.

---

I am not joking. Seriously! >=(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Megaius

I am not joking. Seriously! >=(

---

You're gonna lose maybe 1% of your dps to the poison changes. The TP changes are difficult to model because they're largely influenced by lag and ping. The worse your lag is, the less this is going to affect you.

The issue with these adjustments in my opinion is that in order to nerf Ninja's single target damage (which was honestly not needed to begin with in my opinion), you have also nerfed Ninja's AoE ability.
A 20% reduction in damage for Doton & Katon, paired with Ninja's weak physical AoE pushes them to quite poor levels in comparison to Dragoon (as an example)..

The alternative to this would have been to simply nerf the potency on Raiton by 20% and leave both Kisses as they are.

Another option to this would be to split both Kisses further by making one affect Magic damage and the other affect Physical damage.
This would further increase the skill ceiling as you would then have people cycling both Kisses during the fight - instead of sitting on one stance. This would reward those that made this sort of effort without buffing the class more then it currently is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eej

http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...nt/category/4/

Hmm, speaking from what little experience you have I don't think you really know what you're talking about.

---

there are plenty of non-endgame boss encounters where you don't have to move a single bit. and yet when not using any AoE's i've never once needed invigorate. plus you can sit at a striking dummy for like 5 or 6 minutes before TP starts to drop down to 300 and below.

aside from AoE's, DRG doesn't have a high TP consumption rate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eej

So you cherry picked your highest parse instead of the average and also padded it with Mercy Stroke because bosses exist only at 20% or lower. Hmm....

---

Just showing it's easily possible to go over 520 dps with DRG i114 when some claimed it to be impossible.

1. It was discussion on DUMMY dps, not bosses.
2. Whether it was possible or not to do 520+
3. What new ways will you construe it in a negative light upon me?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

Just showing it's easily possible to go over 520 dps with drg i114 when some claimed it to be impossible.

---

yeah its possible to go over 900 dps on a black mage if i cherry pick a rotation on a dummy where i crit all of my fires as well

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

there are plenty of non-endgame boss encounters where you don't have to move a single bit. and yet when not using any AoE's i've never once needed invigorate. plus you can sit at a striking dummy for like 5 or 6 minutes before TP starts to drop down to 300 and below.

aside from AoE's, DRG doesn't have a high TP consumption rate.

---

That is so incredibly wrong I don't understand how you've managed to convince yourself otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doublestep

yeah its possible to go over 900 dps on a black mage if i cherry pick a rotation on a dummy where i crit all of my fires as well

---

Show me. Single target.

It's not like I sat there all day, I can get 520 parse in 1 of 3 runs usually.

you may be gung-ho about posting illegal program screenshots on the forums my friend but i am a man of dignity

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doublestep

you may be gung-ho about posting illegal program screenshots on the forums my friend but i am a man of dignity

---

Only posted it because a few people wanted proof.

Those numbers are definitely possible because at around 4:20 minutes both blood for blood and internal release are both up (Also pot if he uses it the same way I do), so by the time he's done, he just finished off with a 1.8k+ full thrust which will definitely jump his dps at that last bit.

Still, I'd need a high crit rate to get that high myself.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Decrith

Those numbers are definitely possible because at around 4:20 minutes both blood for blood and internal release are both up (Also pot if he uses it the same way I do), so by the time he's done, he just finished off with a 1.8k+ full thrust which will definitely jump his dps at that last bit.

Still, I'd need a high crit rate to get that high myself.

---

Precisely, I didn't do it to show that hey look I do this much DPS everytime, some people just wanted to see a DRG do 520, and with all the above circumstances, its possible with decent RNG, 1 out of 3 runs typically.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

lolwut? i only speak from what little experience i have. but i have never once needed to use Invigorate as a DRG, aside from using AoE's. as a NIN i usually need to use about either half way or 3 quarters of the way through a boss encounter. as a MNK... well they eat through TP like candy. DRG doesn't have high TP consumption.

---

You're playing Dragoon wrong..

Oh wait, you don't play it at all.

^ This.

Berry, you are clearly playing drg wrong if you believe drg doesn't have high tp consumption.

Nerfing ninjutsu feels like the wrong way to go about it. Partly because you just do one raiton a minute(+ a kassatsu raiton here and there) and you aren't using suiton for it's big magic damage so it's not much of a nerf, though I guess I shouldn't be complaining that much since I like nin. But also because the nerf targets what makes ninja unique. It'd be like if drg was, purely hypothetically, too strong my first reaction wouldn't be to make jumps weaker. I'd go after the early parts of their combo moves and try to keep full thrust and jumps satisfying.

Feels weird nerfing doton and katon too. It's not like nin aoe is monk bad where you're holding 4 mans back or anything, but it's certainly not good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

Precisely, I didn't do it to show that hey look I do this much DPS everytime, some people just wanted to see a DRG do 520, and with all the above circumstances, its possible with decent RNG, 1 out of 3 runs typically.

---

He does speak the truth though. I have also parsed in the past on a dummy at 520+, granted no record of it since it was back before 2.4 came out and I was still i115 ;-; it is possible with rng blessing you xD even then, its still pretty easy to parse high on a striking dummy since there's no mechanics. Though I think that goes for anyone really :p

inc. "SHOW ME PROOF RAWR DRG CAN'T DO THAT" T_T

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

lolwut? i only speak from what little experience i have. but i have never once needed to use Invigorate as a DRG, aside from using AoE's. as a NIN i usually need to use about either half way or 3 quarters of the way through a boss encounter. as a MNK... well they eat through TP like candy. DRG doesn't have high TP consumption.

---

I bet you don't keep up your HT and/or use your DoTs lol
You would not be saying what you said if you did.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CGMidlander

I bet you don't keep up your HT and/or use your DoTs lol
You would not be saying what you said if you did.

---

i keep everything going. don't have issue with TP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

i keep everything going. don't have issue with TP.

---

I have trouble believing you've done a fight that lasts longer than a couple minutes on DRG, so you don't have the experience to know what you're talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HeavenlyArmed

I have trouble believing you've done a fight that lasts longer than a couple minutes on DRG, so you don't have the experience to know what you're talking about.

---

Note that it would also need to be a long fight with no disconnects. Things like the primals usually have a DRG-invigorate worth of downtime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doublestep

you may be gung-ho about posting illegal program screenshots on the forums my friend but i am a man of dignity

---

This just sounds like "I can't actually do it and I made up numbers off the top of my head" to me. Whereas the DRG player handed out the receipts, you seem to be dodging around it. Maybe you can actually hit those numbers but it seems dodgy when you get called out on it and don't want to produce any kind of evidence.

Note that I'm not a DRG (play MNK and NIN) so I don't have a dog in this particular fight. Just calling it like I see it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AlphaDragoon

This just sounds like "I can't actually do it and I made up numbers off the top of my head" to me. Whereas the DRG player handed out the receipts, you seem to be dodging around it. Maybe you can actually hit those numbers but it seems dodgy when you get called out on it and don't want to produce any kind of evidence.

Note that I'm not a DRG (play MNK and NIN) so I don't have a dog in this particular fight. Just calling it like I see it.

---

and i'm just calling it like i see it; a player is cherrypicking entries of an illegal parser

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doublestep

and i'm just calling it like i see it; a player is cherrypicking entries of an illegal parser

---

Seems to be like you're butthurt because good dragoon told you the class is fine when it come to dps
People usualy get defensive when they hear "The problem isn't the class, it's you"

Yep, the main issue with DRG is not the damage itself, but maintaining it. Missing a heavy thrust or impulse drive can be detrimental.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hallena

Seems to be like you're butthurt because good dragoon told you the class is fine when it come to dps
People usualy get defensive when they hear "The problem isn't the class, it's you"

---

doublestep has a little bit of merit. So this guy gave us a 520 dragoon parse but at what conditions? Whereas a similarly geared monk can dish out more if not equal damage without milking the dummy for mercy strokes and relying on getting that 33% crit rate run. In a real fight scenario, your group isn't gonna reset the fight just because you didn't have the "perfect run" to reach your 520 dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Orlandeu

doublestep has a little bit of merit. So this guy gave us a 520 dragoon parse but at what conditions? Whereas a similarly geared monk can dish out more if not equal damage without milking the dummy for mercy strokes and relying on getting that 33% crit rate run. In a real fight scenario, your group isn't gonna reset the fight just because you didn't have the "perfect run" to reach your 520 dps.

---

All of your points are invalid in THIS case whereas we were strictly going on about how much DPS a DRG could pump out on a DUMMY. Many said they didn't believe 520 DPS @ iLevel 114 with a Nexus was doable, it took me a "few" tries to get it but it wasn't had, I didn't sit there for hours on end til I finally hit perfect RNG and got 520 DPS. Nor did I claim anything about this is DRG DPS during actual encounters. Perhaps if you read the prior posts leading up to this you would know these things, but clearly what you have said makes it seem you have not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Daweism

All of your points are invalid in THIS case whereas we were strictly going on about how much DPS a DRG could pump out on a DUMMY. Many said they didn't believe 520 DPS @ iLevel 114 with a Nexus was doable, it took me a "few" tries to get it but it wasn't had, I didn't sit there for hours on end til I finally hit perfect RNG and got 520 DPS. Nor did I claim anything about this is DRG DPS during actual encounters. Perhaps if you read the prior posts leading up to this you would know these things, but clearly what you have said makes it seem you have not.

---

Excuse me but that post wasn't directed to you or your dummy numbers. I understand the purpose of your super1337 DRG was to show people that a dragoon can do this much DPS on a dummy provided you give it a few runs and use mercy stroke everytime it's off CD. I get that. I think we all get it. Good job.

I just think it's pointless to go around telling people that a dragoon in 115 weapon can do that much. When all it really is, is a padded DPS number.

Look at this guy for example:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hallena

Seems to be like you're butthurt because good dragoon told you the class is fine when it come to dps"

---

he sees a 520 parse on a dragoon and thinks the class is fine. LOL

Definitely agree with you there, it may be giving people the wrong idea. Dragoons as a class are definitely under performing in raids in terms of DPS and utility. Didn't mean to mislead people by putting up a super1337 parse. I am on the same boat as you, I am very sad at the current state of the Dragoon.

Well, we got 2 days left!!

Can't say I'm disappointed at the nerf. Any more potency drops would put the job far too low on the charts. Can say I was hoping for a decrease in Huton to 60s.
Can say I hope they're doing just a little more than "Heavy thrust's buff applies regardless of position". 15% damage for 15 seconds outside the highest damage dealing rotation feels pretty bad man. Especially compared to a 10% + 27% (however the figure their percentages) built into the rotations and a never-ending 20% to physical damage buff.

#NerfMNK #SoOP #TooHighDPS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KikoriL

Can say I was hoping for a decrease in Huton to 60s.

---

Can say i am glad you are not in charge of balancing the game cause you have absolutely zero clue about what you are talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Casper

Can say i am glad you are not in charge of balancing the game cause you have absolutely zero clue about what you are talking about.

---

Then enlighten me. Why would a ten second change in Huton's duration be such an enormous game-breaking deal?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KikoriL

Then enlighten me. Why would a ten second change in Huton's duration be such an enormous game-breaking deal?

---

Because the CD only gives you the time you can start casting mudras, and goes on CD when you hit the ninjutsu button. This means that it is quite literally impossible to use a ninjutsu every 20 seconds -- 22 seconds is the minimum. So a cycle of 3 jutsus is 66 seconds -- assuming you could start using the jutsu every time right the instant it comes off CD (if you had a GCD up at this moment you're screwed), no lag, and no kassatsu obviously.

Even in perfect circumstances, currently, one has at most 4 seconds left on huton when reapplying it. During kassatsu, at best you will barely reapply it when it is dropping, most time you will have one GCD used outside of huton.

In practice your suggestion would imply to drop raiton out of the rotation and most likely do only huton and suiton. The 70 seconds is not some slacking time, it is just what is needed for the job to perform as intended.

Oh no. Ninja would have to go about five seconds without Huton's speed boost due to not being able to keep it up at all times, assuming they keep up using Ninjutsu whenever possible. Suddenly they would have to practice toggling their mudra faster and more accurately in order to minimize this small downtime. Heaven forbid this be anything like... oh, I don't know...
-Healers having to decide when they can and can't toggle Cleric Stance to maximize DPS
-Dragoons having to figure out just how many attacks they can actually line up with Heavy Thrust's crappy duration
-Monks working to find a comfortable point in their rotation to fire off Touch of Death without risking a buff dropping
...or any of the other snap decisions made in the heat of the moment on when to reserve using an action or try to cycle through everything as quickly as possible.

I still can't it as Ninja-shattering to have ~5 seconds without Huton's speed boost on your still-continual DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KikoriL

Stuff that makes no sense

---

Yeah okay you're a troll and you have no clue. Have fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KikoriL

I still can't it as Ninja-shattering to have ~5 seconds without Huton's speed boost on your still-continual DPS.

---

Pretend that on a 13 minute fight a MNK went 65 seconds without Greased Lightning. That should really tell you all you need to know about why your suggestion is a horrible, horrible idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Viridiana

Pretend that on a 13 minute fight a MNK went 65 seconds without Greased Lightning. That should really tell you all you need to know about why your suggestion is a horrible, horrible idea.

---

Make that 100 seconds. Every other minute, you will use Kassatsu and go 10 seconds with huton down.

Also the argument that ninja have a cushion of a few seconds so it should be cut is ludicrous in the first place. Hey guys ! Monks can reapply GL in less than 8 seconds, let's cut the duration of the stacks from 12 seconds to 8, they don't need the rest ! It will be fun !

Just makes zero sense. My guess is he is just trolling hard.