Cash shop confirmed

Now that I'm raiding with my party, I can't wait to check out what's in the shop, dis game make me happi :)

I hope the people that essentially used the Invite-A-Friend campaign as way to "cash-shop" the dual mount Chocobo don't complain too hard.

I truly wish these items to be available in game as well. I do not support cash only purchases of these items. Buying a soundtrack or plush toy and getting a in game item is not the same as just selling digital items out right for money. With those sells you have a tangible good you bought to enjoy and the minion came with it. With this setup anything vanity can be just sold for real money almost as bad as buying gil for in game use. I don't support either and think this is a bad direction the game is going in. Make the stuff available in game too or do not sell it.

I haven't read the whole thread, so I'm sure I'm repeating the same sentiment a lot of people have, but I think that's the point anyway.

I am absolutely against a cash shop to get new items that have no means of acquisition in game (as paid for by a subscription). It doesn't matter at all if it's vanity only, even if it only rendered on your own screen and nobody else could see it I'd be against it. Paying a subscription is supposed to allow access to all of the work that they put into the game. Whether you actually acquire something or not is irrelevant, but having inaccessible content behind a real money wall sets a bad precedent.

In my opinion if they wanted to test the waters on this sort of thing they'd be a lot safer tossing up Lightning Returns items and the like that used to be available but no longer are (unless she comes back a fourth time...). I'm perfectly fine with content that subscribers had/ have access to being sold for money if the idea is that new players may like the look of this vanity/ obsolete item that's impossible/ too difficult to get in the current game environment because the content is so old/ gone.

I'd encourage anyone who doesn't want to see a preview of a new patch with impressive looking gear (or mounts/ minions/ furniture/ etc.) only to find that you actually have to pay additional money for that not to buy any such items from the cash shop and to voice your concerns.

This is absolutely the worst thing they decided to do. I've been supporting this game since day 1 of 1.0 and now I just feel like they want to take as much money from me as possible. It's a huge slap in the face. Now this game is on the same level as all the other games that want to rob their fans. I used to think so highly of this game.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

con·tent
ˈkäntent/
noun
noun: content; plural noun: contents

1. the things that are held or included in something.

(taken from the first result in google by searching "content definition.")
search engines is your friend. these items are included in the games data, and so by definition: they are "content" despite the fact they are barred by requiring money to experience.

though i don't see the point of this entire thread. if it was a philosophical debate about the practicality of cash shops from a business standpoint, it would be different. but this is the internet, not a college business course.

and yes, this is a shameless cash grab. but no, i don't see anything wrong with it as long as it doesn't turn into a giant coin-operated "i win" button.

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Apparently I need to be extra-specific for the pedantic today.
There is no in game content involved in the acquisition of the mount (the mount itself is in-game content of course, but the method of acquiring it is not), therefore, clicking a "buy" button is not content.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

I really don't understand, it's simple to just not buy the optional items. When they see that isn't working for them they will cut off the cash shop idea entirely.

Dropping your sub does not resolve this particular situation, Not buying the optional stuff does.

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That is not the point...
The thing is, we're already paying for this game to get away from CS crap...
TERA and Aion already went down this road and they walked into F2P land...They're doing better by doing so actually.
This games screwing up every step of the way. I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I've usually am positive with this game but
when they screwed up housing [Yes yes, a house, I know...FLUFF CONTENT that's an arm and a leg's race for] did it, I've stopped dealing with any good
or bad news. We should of saw this coming with Retainers lol. Server is understandable.

Make the game F2P please. You might well. I don't care if it's Vanity or whatever the hell. For us people PAYING this game to get away from BS and CS crap in other F2P games, here goes a slap in the face again.
All SE does is slap the shiz out of peoples. Not sure why anyone here is surprised to be honest. They did me wrong with the house this is just ridiculous...
Here's an idea SE:
http://i.minus.com/ibo6OdpZBbBXEk.gif
This wouldn't of been SOOOO bad if the thing was obtainable via in-game means...
even then it's still a bad idea. So stupid...Oh well.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

-snip-

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lol, Can't help but to laugh at this post. Yeahhhh.. No I am not defending it, in fact I am more against it than I am for it. However, something like this isn't as harmful as people make it out to be. Most of the things that going to be in the cash shop are things that are already obtainable in the game ( - the new mount, in which we don't even know if that will be obtainable in game.)

Well, anyways in the end it's your opinion everyone has one :D.

PS- Most of it are seasonal items, if they mostly keep it for seasonal stuff, then I feel it's no harm no foul.

I don't think a cash shop will be a bad thing. They will have to be careful of course. But the more money coming in the more the dev team can do. At least that's what I think.

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Originally Posted by Mugiawara

And here goes the people defending...
That is not the point...
The thing is, we're already paying for this game to get away from CS crap...

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We are either with you or against you is it? Yikes.

So let me get this strait. You pay your money for a product (XIV Sub) that people who don't pay can not play. This is fine. Someone else wants to pay for a product (vanity item) that people who don't purchase can't have. This is seemingly bad?

Not specifically pointing at you but most of the arguments in the thread give me the mental image of a kid stomping their foot screaming that no one else can have something unless they get one too. Debating about what MIGHT happen in the future is good and all but saying its doomsday because something is possible but hasn't happened is just... Ugh. Planet might be sucked into a black hole sometime in the future so don't bother playing an MMO. Arguments are that silly.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The grand majority of you were begging SE to add purchasable Fantasias and extra retainers and even complained when you could only buy a limited amount. Did you suddenly forget about that?

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I've never seen anyone in my FC of roughly 130 complain about not getting enough retainers. Same goes to all the big linkshells in which I'm active. I've never purchased extra retainers, nor do I intend to. I've barely known any people who have cared about that. While I don't doubt that there were many people who asked for that kind of additions, saying it's the grand majority is straight up wrong. Regardless, grouping me with that supposed "grand majority" is pointless, given that I never begged for anything like that, or even wanted it. In fact, other than server transfers, which is understandable, I don't think anything else should have a cost on top of the subscription. My previous post explains exactly why.

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Originally Posted by kanjitai

I don't think a cash shop will be a bad thing. They will have to be careful of course. But the more money coming in the more the dev team can do. At least that's what I think.

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The more money coming in from the cash shop, the more the devs will focus on developing content.... for the cash shop.

I've worked for months to get Atmas -- since the quest was added to the game, in fact -- and still don't have a full set. Cash shop me some Atmas, so I can get back to playing something besides FATEs? Yes, please.

Cash shops ruin games. This is awful news.

I guess I have to find a new game, I'm sure as hell not going to continue to subscribe if/when they add this cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Vanity. Meaning if you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Considering the majority of the people would have one character and do a one time purchase, it isn't event remotely enough to support the game on it's own. The F2P games can show you this, the cash shop has to have things that players need, and they need them to be bought over and over in order to make any decent money from it.

Way to blow things out of proportion.

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Actually, the subscription fee IS enough to support the game. In fact, a while ago Yoshi himself explained why the P2P model doesn't work for a lot of games (his explanation involving investors, look into it if you want). SE can easily run a game without a cash shop. It was done with FFXI for what, 12 years? They're not lacking in funds.

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Originally Posted by SeleneSinclair

Let's see. It's optional. It's vanity. And, to top it all off, it's in every single MMO (subscription based included) on the planet. If your opinion was the majority, this system wouldn't exist.

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With that logic, Call of Duty must be an amazing game, and Justin Beiber must be an amazing musician. Popularity does not equate to quality. Yes, the vast majority of MMOs has found that they can make good money from things like cash shops, and I don't blame them. The problem starts when games that are supposedly sub only (meaning you access ALL content just by paying your sub) start locking you out of content unless you're willing to pay extra. The whole idea behind a sub is that it's an ongoing service and they keep making content for you. Not for them to use that money to make 90% content for you, 10% content for people who will pay extra.

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Originally Posted by Silversnow

We are either with you or against you is it? Yikes.

So let me get this strait. You pay your money for a product (XIV Sub) that people who don't pay can not play. This is fine. Someone else wants to pay for a product (vanity item) that people who don't purchase can't have. This is seemingly bad?
Not specifically pointing at you but most of the arguments in the thread give me the mental image of a kid stomping their foot screaming that no one else can have something unless they get one too. Debating about what MIGHT happen in the future is good and all but saying its doomsday because something is possible but hasn't happened is just... Ugh. Planet might be sucked into a black hole sometime in the future so don't bother playing an MMO. Arguments are that silly.

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You can be with me or against me all you like, but I can't possibly see how saying how this is okay.
Yes I am paying for the game, the game should already give me things like that and vanity, but in-game means....NOT by a cash shop.

Cash shop in a P2P model is NOT okay. Seasonal Items should be just that, seasonal,. You missed it? Wait next time. I missed some and I'm okay with waiting.
I understand how people feel about this, since we're paying, there's no reason why everyone else shouldn't have a chance to get it too, by simply PLAYING for what
they're already paying for, not pay for more. I'm not going to bother reading "They'll get more content done." Done, but not done right because yeah well they took my cash, and screwed it up with the house.
I won't let that go because I'm still irritated with it lol. Let's not talk about the Ye olde tale of SERVER LIMITATIONS or anything.

@StarLord: I just wanna say my post came off a bit rude at the beginning and I apologize for that.
I'll edit it out.

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Originally Posted by Preypacer

Time = Money?

In a game?

Seriously?

Wow. The ways people will justify things to themselves.

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It's not hard to understand. Ex: Pay $5 for something in a cash shop vs praying to the RNG gods for months @ $15 per month. Time = $

I for one, cannot wait to buy Sleipnir mount and swag all over the poor guy casuals in game.

Most of this stuff doesn't even cost anything. I blow more money taking my silly girlfriend out to dinner for a night.

If you can't afford these things (or not want to spend money), it's OK, the greatness and essence of the main game won't be diminished in any way.

Assuming 2.5 million players are subs, then the minimum they would make per month is $27738795.50 (calculated at legacy price for 1 character and converted from £).

Considering how much they make from subs it is greedy to ask us to pay for additional content.

If every player were to buy an Odin mount at say $5 (random price), that would bag them an additional $12.5 million. That is for something that is already in the game and took them no extra effort to develop.

As a side note: A games content is anything contained within that game, no matter how trivial and non relevant it is to progression; it is still content.

We pay a sub to enjoy the games content in its entirety, A cash shop (even for vanity items) is a slap in the face to every subscriber that wants to enjoy that content.

Okay here goes.

I pay my subscription fee every month to play the game. So far I've spent a good chunk of money into the game and I'm sure so have others. What most people see is just a new item added to the game. Okay it costs $?/€? but that's okay as long as this is a one time thing - yes? No.


Even if this would be intended as a one-time thing it wouldn't stay like that. Cash shops generate money. Very much money. For little effort. All you have to do is design the items and put them up in the cash shop. No Story. No Quest. Now there's no doubt that a new shiny mount will generate a lot of $€$ for SE. Put it up for $15 - people will buy it. Put it up for $50 - people will buy it. Hell you can even put it up for $1000. People will still buy it. This leads to SEs marketing guys. They'll think "hey.. if they pay for an ingame item.. Why not bring more of them?" And like that you'll have a good cash shop going. Even if it doesn't affect FFXIV that much... think of the next FF MMO if they will ever release one. Will it be F2P because cash shops = money? Or will we have evolved to MMO = sub + p2w?

The worst thing about it is that many players are bored and just log in every tuesday.. so instead of designing enjoyable content around the said item they just put it up for sale.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

Vanity. Meaning if you like it, buy it. If you don't, then don't. Considering the majority of the people would have one character and do a one time purchase, it isn't event remotely enough to support the game on it's own. The F2P games can show you this, the cash shop has to have things that players need, and they need them to be bought over and over in order to make any decent money from it.

Way to blow things out of proportion.

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It is enough to support the game. Hell even our Sub fee gives them revenue. That's why it bothers me. I'm paying to play a game. I expect 100% of the game to be available to me. (Things can be locked behind a very hard fight if you want. I don't mind if I don't have everything then.) But setting up another $$$$ wall when I already pay monthly sub for the game - Nope.

tl;dr
Cash shops are bad for the game and all future SE games/mmos.

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Originally Posted by Silversnow

We are either with you or against you is it? Yikes.

So let me get this strait. You pay your money for a product (XIV Sub) that people who don't pay can not play. This is fine. Someone else wants to pay for a product (vanity item) that people who don't purchase can't have. This is seemingly bad?

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Yeah that's bad, you don't see it? We pay for the game already. Doesn't matter what they are selling, if it's vanity or important items, it's all things that we should be able to get in game because we already pay monthly. The "monthly" part of that means it should cover any new content that gets released but they are trying to take even more of our money for things that can be included in game for effort and not real money. I don't want to pay extra money for a couple minions or housing furniture or whatever.
I don't want to pay monthly for a game that I still can't get everything unless I pay even more money.

I have to be honest, I don't like it.

This is purely anecdotal, but this month I have been rocking my howling eye costume that I got last year at the first Halloween event of 2.0, and running around the city states having fun. It's fun to have an item that not everyone else has, and making people laugh in surprise. It's my mark of having been with the game for a year, and when I saw that the Halloween event this year didn't include this item as a reward I was thrilled that Yoshi-P and team understood how I felt and how it's important to allow players a sense of identity. It's the same feeling as having a really rare mount you got lucky rolling on, and this dynamic is such a huge part of what makes an MMO. Of course I was wrong about the costume, as they will now sell it in the cash shop. I feel that the random money they will make from this is worth less than giving the player the sense of "you were here, you got the item. That's your memory and your mark and it won't be available again."

Recently I have been having this feeling of, what is the point? A player can join the game now and achieve what I have achieved in 1 year (which isn't a terrible amount, but still), in about 2 weeks. As of today, I know they can also just buy whatever I have collected as well. Personally, I'm a long haul kind of guy. I am careful with how I spend my time and money, but when I do invest in something I stick at it. Well, even i'm having doubts about the direction they are taking this in recent months. I hope you understand that i'm not trying to sound like a special panda, but making the point that a long-term sub is worth more than a quick buck. Also, the gap in time for veteran rewards is increasing, and when you compare the reward for subbing to the game for 365 days versus the Odin mount you can now buy in the cash shop...well yeah.

I'm not ringing the bells of doom or anything, I'm just saying that I would like Yoshi-P and team to consider that when a player joins an MMO they are effectively creating a home (away from home). A long term sub is your guaranteed revenue for the years to come, and in return you need to have respect for the time they have spent, which includes giving them a sense of accomplishment over the long term. I don't want to know that a player can join the game and have everything I have within a couple of weeks, and I don't want to see items constantly brought back from timed events for new players who weren't even around to just buy on a whim.

Why should I bother taking part in the latest seasonal event? Why should I bother farming leviathan for a chance at a cool mount when the coolest mount is now up for purchase on the cash shop? I know this is all sounding very 'special panda', but as someone who had planned to sub to the game over a long period of time, I need to know that I won't look back and see a lot of my time was wasted because I have nothing to show for it. Yes I know it's just a videogame, and I know it should be about pure fun, but I feel as though an MMO means a little more than that. End rant :(

Eh, I mean if the cash shop offers items like "Vials of Fantasia", then sure, great idea! But if it offers mounts/minions/gear etc. then I am kind of against it. I mean if this was a F2P game and not a P2P game then sure, add a cash shop with tons of cool stuff to buy to help financially support the game, but when you bought the game initially and are paying monthly, it's not cool to charge extra for mounts/minions/gear etc. unless they make it dirt cheap.

"Want your newly purchased minion to dance and sing when you are idle? for another small fee it can be yours"

>.>

In any case, people need to chill out until they actually see it. Threatening to unsub before you even see it just makes you all look like a bunch of babies.

If they wanna go that route, fine. FREE TO PLAY HERE WE COME

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

In any case, people need to chill out until they actually see it. Threatening to unsub before you even see it just makes you all look like a bunch a babies.

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Except they've already listed several of the items that will be for sale, including a Sleipnir mount and some minions. You can already see it.

Plus, I've seen it before. In other games. "Vanity items only" is always how it starts and it just slowly grows from there. But hypothetically, even if it stayed "vanity only" forever thats still already too much.
For the minion collector, this IS pay to win. For the mount collector, this is pay to win. Lots of people play the game for lots of different reasons besides "get best stats possible" and these reasons are all valid.

I just cancelled the automatic renewal on my subscription. This is a sad day, I was legitimately hyped for 2.4 and 3.0 :(

Some peeps are getting way to worked up over this, and thinking about it way too much. It's an OPTIONAL service, don't like it? Don't spend any money.

SE is a company and it's products are made to make money/profit. This is a way for them to do it...get over it.

In the end...it's just a video game, so lets all just have some fun riding around in our Sleipnir Mounts.

They may just try to sell dumb little conveniences such as extra inventory space, fantasia, or a free teleport crystal but chances are it will be glamour pieces. You might not think this is bad right now but in truth it's severely damaging to the game over time. With every glamour piece that is added to a cash shop it's 1 less added to a drop pool, crafting log or NPC vendor and that's 1 less bit of incentive you have to engage in that content. The direction of the game also tends to get greedy because players give in and buy everything. Eventually you have pieces of gear that look better than what you can earn by playing.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

They may just try to sell dumb little conveniences such as extra inventory space, fantasia, or a free teleport crystal but chances are it will be glamour pieces. You might not think this is bad right now but in truth it's severely damaging to the game over time. With every glamour piece that is added to a cash shop it's 1 less added to a drop pool, crafting log or NPC vendor and that's 1 less bit of incentive you have to engage in that content. The direction of the game also tends to get greedy because players give in and buy everything. Eventually you have pieces of gear that look better than what you can earn by playing.

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Agreed. It's a very slippery slope.

Doesn't really matter at this point. Let them unsub, it doesn't change the fact that the shop is coming regardless and the hard headed that can't seem to get what an optional service is. People have larger problems if they are sitting her complaining over random vanity items that have no effect on anything in the game.

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

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The game is 100% available to you. You can play it and all the content it has, no problem. Want the shiny mount now? Pay for it. There are more mounts in the game you can ride then the one in the shop. Again, optional.

As everyone else who has their head on straight has said, it's coming regardless. Speak with your money and unsub. We really don't care because, for the 15th time, it doesn't effect the game. You guys forget this is a business before it is a game. Reality sucks.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Words

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Wat? The stuff going on vanity is more than likely a one time exclusive ingame for the holidays (IE, pumpkin masks). New stuff will be released next time. That's how this works.

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Originally Posted by Catsby

Eventually you have pieces of gear that look better than what you can earn by playing.

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Then I will just buy it. I doubt I will have to take out a second mortgage.....

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Originally Posted by VeryLaZ

Then I will just buy it. I doubt I will have to take out a second mortgage.....

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This leads to a lack of incentive to actually play the game, if not for you then for other people. Think a bit deeper...

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Originally Posted by VeryLaZ

Some peeps are getting way to worked up over this, and thinking about it way too much. It's an OPTIONAL service, don't like it? Don't spend any money.

SE is a company and it's products are made to make money/profit. This is a way for them to do it...get over it.

In the end...it's just a video game, so lets all just have some fun riding around in our Sleipnir Mounts.

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So your ok with having to buy the game first then pay monthly to continue playing the game, and the after that fork up more cash if you want some things in the game? You can be happy thinking that SE only sees you as a cash machine but I'm not. I don't want them trying to entice me with shiny things for even more of my money when I already give them money every month.

In the end what is our monthly subscription really for?
Companies win me over by putting their fans before their wallet

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Originally Posted by KenzieLynch

This leads to a lack of incentive to actually play the game, if not for you then for other people. Think a bit deeper...

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Really? This game offers so much, at least for me. From the runs with my FC, the laughs we have, the feeling of maxing out classes, to gaining certain goals, completing my sightseeing log to get a rare minion ( I can go on and on)

If buying a minion or a sword of the shop gives anyone a lack of incentive to play this game, or any MMO in my opinion...you need to play another game.

There will always be certain pieces of gear, or minions that you can only get in the game. The shop...at least for me, will never take away from that...how could it every replace the feeling of what I mentioned above?!

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

In the end what is our monthly subscription really for?

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to be allowed to log so we can play. aka p2p

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

If you want to put in a cash shop, then what, if anything, are you doing to earn my subscription fees? I will not play games that double-dip. I left WoW for that garbage, and I will leave FFXIV.

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telling you to pay or you can't log in.

If you want to put in a cash shop, then what, if anything, are you doing to earn my subscription fees? I will not play games that double-dip. I left WoW for that garbage, and I will leave FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by JarinArenos

If you want to put in a cash shop, then what, if anything, are you doing to earn my subscription fees? I will not play games that double-dip. I left WoW for that garbage, and I will leave FFXIV.

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Bye.

People that can't understand how to make money as a game dev don't need to be here anyway. I still have yet to hear anything that would make a logical arguement as to why this is bad aside from: "I pay a sub so I don't want it".

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Originally Posted by IveraIvalice

So your ok with having to buy the game first then pay monthly to continue playing the game, and the after that fork up more cash if you want some things in the game? You can be happy thinking that SE only sees you as a cash machine but I'm not. I don't want them trying to entice me with shiny things for even more of my money when I already give them money every month.

In the end what is our monthly subscription really for?
Companies win me over by putting their fans before their wallet

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All companies think of consumers as cash machines...it's the world we live in my friend. I have the choice to play this game or not, and to buy a mount, or not. If I didn't like it I would simply move on to something else.